Even so, how about SAMs even compare to the A Levels? SAM is only 1 year, and is considered the Grade 12 of australian syllabus, does that count? That's my next option besides ADP, albeit they say the curriculum is much tougher and compact than A levels, wouldn't you say SAM saves more time?

Because weighing the SAM and A Levels, they are roughly the same in curriculum and recognition, but SAM consumes less time. Would you consider that? Why and why not?

And besides that, you mean u have not figured out what you will do AFTER your A Levels, what if they don't offer you financial aid at all? What are you going to do then, holding your results with 1A3Bs? (since the last example was too good hahaha) Are you going to enroll in a local U and be done with it?

Meanwhile ADP only costs 2 years overseas study. So my analysis is this, those with enough money to sponsor their children for 2 years of US study should go for ADP, but A Levels/SAM would get us to the Ivies if we are so determined to do so, but when it comes right down to it, would it be worth it to study A levels living the dream of one day studying at Harvard while the reality being that we could never achieve that four flat and end up studying at Curtin or Reading or something (no grudge against them whatsoever, I'm just sayin')

Because we need to face the fact that economically and intellectually speaking, sometimes we are just not cut out for that future, but of course we can bet on that slim probability that we might succeed, does that mean that we should go all out and when all else fails, we abandon our original plan of studying overseas and expanding our sights?

What previous poster posted is true. If you're aiming for the Ivy Leagues, do not bother going through ADP. Actually, if you take the SATs straight after SPM you can apply immediately for the USA. You have to have an SAT score of at least 2100+/2400 as well really impressive curriculums to get accepted into the Ivies. I'm talking national-level competitions (preferably sports) or something equally impressive. Even if you take A levels, you will still have to take the SATs. The marginal benefit of taking A-levels is that you'll get to transfer some of it as extra credits to whichever institution you apply to.

Also, I have to disagree with MisterLee. The American education system gives you a whole lot of freedom in choosing your courses. You get the option of minoring in a field that is completely unrelated to your degree. There aren't a lot of 'American pre-u' programs because you don't need a foundation program to apply for an American university. You honestly just need the SATs and proof that you've graduated highschool. They take our Form 5 as a Grade 12 equivalent. Another option is to enroll into Taylor's 1+5 program, which acts as a sort of Grade 12 equivalent and allows you to apply for the Ivies.

Yes, ADP saves you a LOT of time and money, but it comes at the expense of missing out on the more elite American universities. You can still apply to good universities through ADP, just not the Ivies or the 'public' Ivies like UC Berkeley (or any of the UC schools for that matter).

Regardless, if you get into an Ivy, finance should not be a problem. Astro and Bank Negara both offer scholarships for students accepted at an Ivy school, although there are probably several other requirements.

*PS, I have to mention this. American universities take an extremely holistic approach in selecting their students. They don't just take into your grades, they truly look at you as a person. They want very well-rounded individuals who excel both in and out of the classroom. You can have extremely solid grades and still you might not make the cut if you don't have equally impressive curriculums, and this is especially true for the Ivies.

Do you mean A Levels do not count as a Grade 12 equivalent but merely a subsidiary course which may or may not have credits transferable to the university of your choice?

Then, do you recommend I take the SATs, then apply for the Us Unis (Ivies or any other tier 1), meanwhile focusing on my A-Levels and hope for the best? Is this what you mean? Are you saying that A Levels are not considered as a fundamental course to enter an American Uni?
I knew this, but they all say that A Levels have a higher chance to get into the more prestige uni, I think it is owing to the fact that we all start a new leaf in A Levels and most ppl keep a clean record during their college life, thus their "new" and "clean" record enables them the admission, and not the A Levels itself. Am I correct?

No, A Levels IS regarded as a Grade 12 equivalent and it is a safe path towards acceptance.

Not exactly. And yes, I actually do, to be competitive as an applicant you should suit to the American curriculum as best as possible. As I have said, I will be entering the April intake of the A Levels, and after SPM, there is about a 4 month gap, and I will use that time frame to study all I need for the SAT's.

Also, you should also build a great EC for any of the top schools to even thinking of considering you. The US admission process is incredibly holistic, excellent grades do not, and will not ever guarantee you a place in that said university.

Well, it doesn't really, all applications are treated the same as long as it meets the schools requirements, especially for top schools. While it does keep a clean record, with A Levels or any other equivalent, most schools generally require to to hand in your high school transcripts, so its kind of the same thing. An A Level result is your proof of high school completion, that is the most important one, they will treat A Levels as its Grade 12.

Yeah this is where it gets confusing, LesAffreux said that SPM IS considered as Grade 12, so which one is correct?

Which category does ADP fall under, when we enroll in ADP, we are technically US-system Students, studying a degree program and thus already graduated high school right?

1.
There is no difference between taking A-levels or AP tests. Just the amount of work you have to do to get the credits will be different. If you already plan to go with A-levels then just do it.
Some of my classmates got their admission results a few months before A-level finals and just totally stopped studying because they "lost their mood" now that they are sure to get in because there is no conditions imposed on the A-level results in order to get admitted.

2.
When I said Princeton review, I meant the book series - not the prep course. I think I also used the Kaplan book series. I don't really know which books are the best at spotting questions nowadays since it's been years since I sat for the test.

For Math 1. I remember it's really just Form 5 math with some very simple Add Maths. The test is about speed and accuracy. If I remember correctly I had 1 or 2 mistakes because I could not finish on time and it took maybe 20 points off for each question.

Math 2 is similar to Add Maths if I remember correctly but the grading is much more gentle - you can make a few mistakes and still get a perfect score. Its much easier than Math 1 because you have so much margin.

3.Regarding the admission decisions:

The admission process is usually a "holistic review" so even though it is advantageous to get a good SAT score it's not going to be the most major factor if you are applying for a fairly top tier school.

Eg. If I have a candidate with 2100 and another with 2200, but most people average 2100 anyway -- Does the 2200 candidate automatically get a place? No. It depends on his activities, recommendation letters and personal statement.

If you are applying to a low tier school with a 1600 average and you get 2100. You are obviously way ahead in terms of getting admitted.

The importance of SAT scores diminishes if everybody is doing very well because you are expected to do well if you have the balls to apply.

Note: This generalization does not include Ivy leagues. their admission policies are more complex because they have many more aspects that they judge you on.

4. Yup it's always smart to have a backup plan. I think one of my friends failed in all his applications except his backup school which was the first to accept him but they had a 50% admission rate anyway...

5. All I can say is that I went to one of the flagship public unis in the state and graduated with honors. In terms of how the experience is going to be like, I can't offer any other perspective other than an engineer's perspective so I don't think mine is very useful to you.

But I would say that the non-engineers seem to enjoy life a lot more.

Well, I think I'm gonna pucker up my ass and go take both of them. But AP tests I will do it when I have the time.
Wow, I think this goes the same for SPM, the no mood crew just loitering along after being safe. But well, I can't really slack off, NYU wants me to hand in both forecast AND actual results.

Yeah yeah, I know what you meant. The PR books are more expensive than the other ones though.
Oh alright, I have to take Math anyway, but Maths 2.... I think I wanna just ignore it all together, after all, they didn't actually ask for it. But maybe I'll think it through.

Well yeah, I know they are holistic, it just might make me seem more dedicated or something like that. So, SAT in 4 months is definitely doable, right?
I hate Ivy Leagues sometimes, so demanding, but then again it'd be a dream to get into one of them.

Wow, what happened to him, did he have particularly bad EC's or something like that?

Well, then all I have to say is I congratulate you with your successes
Pfft, nah, I'll be prepared to work long hours when I step into the real world.

What are the good unis that would accept SPM Grads, MisterLee?
I'm looking for engineering/computer science, preferably West Coast, preferably near the valley, looking for jobs in the tech line
I have taken the SATs, but its not a particular good score, I plan to retake it so SATs are no problem for me. But I have a hard time finding a good uni to apply to as many of them are either low tier or too high up. Any good recommendations?

My sincerest respects to you,
Well, I sent multiple emails to many top-tier schools and most of them say that they do not regard the SPM as a Grade 12 equivalent. Different experiences, perhaps? But MIT and Purdue definitely surprised me though, MIT doesn't care what curriculum you hand in, and Purdue accepts both SPM and the UEC (equal treatment).

Also, its true that UEC is generally not accepted in US schools right?

Highlighting what @LesAffreux said just now, as I have said before, if you want top or Ivy League schools, do not opt for ADP, you will have no chance of admissions. Taylors or Sunway or INTI or any other institution that offers ADP have their lists of schools that previous students have transferred to, but it is best that you contact them yourself and make sure it is accepted. NYU was listed in the Taylors catalogue but when I asked them, they told me that ADP is regarded as a foundation program and they do not accept it, so, boohoo :-/

So far, I have only seen Purdue that accepts SPM. But I wouldn't throw all my eggs into one basket, especially American schools, which are so unpredictable.

It is best you contact the school you are interested in and ask what they're requirements are. Some might ask you for CAL, IB or something else, some might want high school diplomas and thats it, it varies, really.
Unfortunately, Purdue is not in the WC, It is somewhere in the Mid West, in West LaFayette, but it is a great school for engineering, I think its one of the top 10 in the country.

Well, for California, you can try out the UC's, the notable ones, as in UCB UCLA UCSF UCSD UCD UCI, of course, there are some pretty good ones, like Chapman University, Claremont McKenna, Harvey Mudd, Pepperdine, Santa Clara U, Pomona College. If you want to challenge yourself, try Stanford or Caltech. Note that Caltech don't offer alot of places for international students.
For the rest, Eg: Washington, Oregon, I'd try University of Washington, University of Portland(More in CompSci)

Some of which I recommended aren't really that high up, but American schools are notoriously unpredictable, so you ought to apply as many as you can.

Also, a word of note, in the WC, with the possible exception of Portland, does not have extensive public transit, so you need a car to drive around (if you need to), so that is another expense.

Oh wow, that's a bit shocking . Wisconsin-Madison and Penn State University Park both recognize SPM too. Upon inquiry, I was told by the admissions department that SPM and the SATs would be sufficient for Michigan Ann Arbor as well. SPM is even listed on their website. Ah, I have a friend aplpying to MIT next fall. If I'm not mistaken, MIT does require you to take SAT Subject Tests though, which I've heard are quite difficult.

However, generally all universities I've made inquiries to have told me that SPM would be considered as our final highschool transcript, and thus be equivalent to Grade 12.

I'm honestly not very sure about the UEC, I haven't seen it listed on any American universities.

This post has been edited by LesAffreux: Oct 2 2014, 01:31 AM

Oh really? Maybe the schools I picked out are just really picky and are just asses. UMich Ross is one of my backups, but since I'm taking the A Levels, I might as well apply with CAL. The thing that bothers me about public schools is that they don't offer a lot of financial aid ( I'm talking about 500$) to students, wether international or local.
Where did you apply to and where are you now?

I feel like I'm giving myself pressure though, all these schools I'm targeting.

Actually I wouldn't want to apply with my SPM, I don't think I will do well enough in it.

Well some actually do, like Purdue, it shocked me, almost none of the schools accept UEC, Caltech and MIT I'll make an exemption to it, since it doesn't care what you apply with. About subject tests, I don't know, but I have to take it, so when I do, I'll report back to you xD

Hi MisterLee, want to share my two cents about applying to US unis, hope you don't mind.

Background: Just finished my A-Levels this year, means I did my SATS and US applications last year.

1. Be close to your lecturers.
Assuming you will be applying through Common App, you will need 2 references. If you intend to enroll in Taylors for your A-Levels, they will have one already prepared for you by your class teacher. The other one can be outsourced via a high school teacher, tuition teacher or simply a lecturer for another sub.

First impressions are extremely important, hence make yourself as likeable as possible towards your lecturers, have casual talks with them, let them understand you more, it really helps them put more context into your reference.

2. Studies
If you intend to apply to some good unis, results are extremely important, and by results I mean your A-Levels AND SPM. You will have to submit high school transcripts, and if I am not mistaken its means your Form 4 year end results, SPM and A-Levels (for form 4, if your year end result slip includes results from your mid years, you have to submit the entire thing, not just just the year end results).

3. Co-co
As someone mentioned earlier, US unis take an extremely holistic approach when it comes to selecting their students, and college/pre-u is a good time to bolster your CV. Join clubs and societies that interests you, join activities and take up leadership roles, and if you garner enough support, you might be able to start your own society!

4. Unis
Be realistic with your choices. Don't have the perception of "oh since I am spending so much money to go there I must aim Ivys and tier ones or not apply at all." Don't. Be honest with yourself, it is fine to aim high, but have some "backup schools" as well.

5. Essays
You need to start writing them early,which means you need to decide on what unis you want, check the dates and prepare accordingly, whether you want to go for ED or RD etc. It is always nice to have a 3rd person perspective of your essay, so don't worry on showing it to your family and friends!

I wish you all the best in your applications, and may you gain entrance to the school you desire

I'm actually from INTI's AUP. Applied to Penn State University Park, Wis-Mad and Minnesota Twin Cities. So far got accepted to Penn State and still awaiting replies from Minnesota and Wis-Mad. Depending on my SAT results in November, I might apply to some of the more difficult schools as a freshman (although honestly, I'm so tired with the whole application process).

YES. I feel you for the financial aid part. And honestly it is so ridiculously expensive to apply to the States. The online application fees, courier fees and TOEFL delivery fees all add up to a ridiculous amount. Common App alone is already a whooping $75 for UMich. But if I'm not mistaken, there's an Opportunity Fund from MACEE which will pay for all the costs of applying. I could be wrong though.

Pressure is good . It keeps you on edge and pushes you to achieve your dreams.

Which schools said they wouldn't accept SPM though? I've had so many bad experiences with the admissions counselors who reply emails. Sometimes you have to really push your case about SPM being your final highschool transcript. But it's all good since you're taking A levels.

All the best with the SATs and A levels! Feel free to PM me anytime if you have any questions about US universities and I'll try to answer to the best of my knowledge

I'm always happy to hear more stories! It makes me feel prepared

You did your US applications last year? Why is that? Is it because you want to prepare yourself better?

Yes, enrolling into A Levels in Taylors is what I'm planning to do next year. Can you give me an example? About being friendly with lecturers? Oh and can you tell me your experience?

Well yeah I am aware of needing to have good grades. I will strive for straight A's in A Levels, I hope its not uber-hard But I can tell you that I won't get like straight A's or even less than that, since I am from a Chinese private school and I am expected to take care of both SPM AND school results, which is almost impossible, and my high school grades aren't perfect either, which worries me that it would only bring down my chances of being accepted I'm just hoping they are holistic enough to see past these ugly spots

Are there alot of choices in Taylors? I have a few ideas to bolster my EC's, they are volunteering, interning at banks, and one more is helping the homeless (still figuring out how)

Well um, I'm not exactly targeting Ivy League's, but NYU (the school I really really really want) is pretty high up there in the case for business and finance. What do you think? My rest are UMich Ross, UVA McIntire, UTAustin McCombs, Georgetown and um probably a few more.

Alright, I'll take your advice, but I'm not sure what to write about, do you mean the personal letters or the essay in the common app? Um, I'm not sure I want to show it to my parents though, I have a rough idea what I am going to write and I'm not prepared to let them know. I would show it to my friends though. Do you have other tips though? Possibly on PM?

Thanks!

This post has been edited by MisterLee: Oct 2 2014, 04:03 PM

What are you planning to study though? I'm guessing engineering or somewhere in the science field?
So how did you do on your SAT's? Mind telling me your experience? How long did you study for it?

I KNOW RIGHT! They have amazing schools and there is so much opportunity after graduation and they seem worth it, but they are so god damn expensive!!! And lately the dollar has been super strong, that would totally act as a major drag.

I just, really REALLY REALLY want to go to NYU, so much as to thinking about it everyday! (Law of attraction b****ez )

NYU wouldn't accept them, I can tell ya that, I think UMich doesn't accept them also, note that i am applying for their business school so admissions requirements may vary. I haven't really asked the rest of my list of target schools, but I'll update you as soon as I can. And I don't really want to apply with my SPM, because I know it will suck (not as good as those crazy 11A students), and A Levels, while would be like high school, gives me a new start, in subjects I actually like and have interest in, not stupid science. A Levels should be safe right? I mean its truly international.

I'm studying Economics . Surprise, surprise! Although I'm actually considering a double major or a minor in Math. I haven't sat for the SATs (heh, puns) yet, I'm sitting for it on November 8th. I'll definitely let you know how it goes! Right now I'm trying to juggle between SAT prep and my college courses . So honestly I don't think I'm going to do that well.

Don't worry, if you get into a very good school there will be scholarships. Work hard to make your NYU dreams come true!

Ah, no worries! But do your best for SPM because you'll still have to send your SPM results when you apply. Don't worry, A-levels is very safe, and you'll get some credits transferred from it too.

Hey, that's what I'm going for too! What did you study in your A Levels then? Econ, math and business studies possibly?

Oh alright , what books are using to study then? And how long did you take to study the SAT's?

I hope so! I read on collegeboard that their average financial aid is about 31,000, I can't say for sure if it applies to international schools though.

Yeah I'll try my best but I'm sure I won't get past 5A's
I'll look for more information regarding credit transfers

Wow! You can predict your future?

Can you control your destiny to get all B's?