This is in reply to UFO-ET's mock forecast of what will happen with regards to members of the prop drop camp. He can make a forecast that props will rise, but that was a personal attack.

If you are here to discuss and find out, why are you cheering to such remarks?

Isn't it clear who is mocking who?

What's wrong, with prop price adjustment? Prop price adjustment, doesn't mean that the whole economy will drop.

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Added on March 22, 2011, 2:48 pmAt least there is subsale. thanks, for the fair remark.

Then in theory, new props, won't be for speculators anymore, since they can't make a profit from subsale.

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Mar 22 2011, 02:48 PM

I'll have to ask this again, for those who say prop market sure up. What will happen if everybody in malaysia, realise this and start buying. Developers seeing the demand, keep building. Build luxury to lowcost props for everybody to "invest" in.

Will everybody become rich? Or will there simply be extra zeros behind our currency, and lot of unoccupied props?

In my opinion, we are already somewhere there. Speculators are saying BBB, beyond the point of what the target market can afford. If we had the choice, you think nobody want to make money from investment?

The answer is risk. There is always risk. Anybody who goes in without considering the risk and thinking that it will always up are nothing but gamblers.

2nd thing to consider is ethics. Ethics will come back to haunt you.

You may own a few props you valued at $XXXXXX$, but when you want to buy the home of your dreams, you realize that you can't because all prices increased together, and you are not even able to get your current investment off your hands.

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Mar 23 2011, 09:32 AM

Yeah... I noted that current malls in melaka are struggling with each other for business. And yet, new branches keep opening. I wonder how they sustain themselves.

I've seen several such places openning, closing, change management and repeat. eg. Melaka mall. Plaza melaka raya.

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Mar 23 2011, 02:36 PM

prices will continue to go up, as long as people are optimistic enough. But when we look at the actual value of a prop, things maybe different.

Looking at the commercial market in Melaka. There are lots of vacant shop houses in Melaka Raya the paint has long pilled off, They extended it and build Pulau Melaka, it turned out to be an abandon shop house project. Only the mosque is functional.

At the heart of Melaka raya there is a huge abandon building project, I'm not sure what it was meant for. If you stayed in Hotel Equatorial, you can see it, it's quite an eye sore.

Also within Melaka Raya, is plaza melaka raya. That place, is a ghost town. The fastfood outlet, and supermarket closed one after another, later it was taken over by pirated PC DVD sales. But now it has completely closed, now the ground floor is occupied by a mamak which opens towards the outside.

Meanwhile, they just opened Hatten Square next to Dataran Pahlawan. It's suppose to be a digital mall, but you can guess, with it's high rental, it can't compete with the current outlets Malaccan's get their hardware from. You guys should have a look the place is practically empty. Hatten Square is good for its parking though, because we are facing jams and parking shortages, right after the government directed all traffic there in the hopes of making that place into a vibrant commercial center. (Simply put, what they have done is to draw away business from other parts of town, like hang tuah, and bunga raya.)

Talking about digital malls, There was once a new digital mall at hang tuah, despite Fajar and hang tuah mall that was dying, and Great Wall, which had died long ago, there was a new little digital mall that open there. There was even a cinema, which was showing Spider Man 2 at that time. Guess what happen? It closed down before it picked up. The building is abandon now. Even Pizza hut had closed.

Mean while, Tesco Sentral, is facing trouble, because Jusco just open next door. Traffic was made in such a way that it made it inconvenient for people to go to tesco, I wonder who tesco offended. Even with all this troubles, Tesco opened a new branch in Cheng. Business is average, better than hatten square at least. Same can be said about Giant, which open at Sentral.

Oh and don't get me started with Melaka Mall, it changed it's name and management a handful of times. Right now it's main business is Parkson, and a cinema. People only go there for the movies. I heard that Parkson was forced to open there due to certain "reasons".

So... anyway, what I'm trying to say? This places are all build upon unrealistic optimism, a big waste of materials and land. Even though nobody wants to go there, do you think the unit there are cheap? nope.

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Mar 23 2011, 03:09 PM

The demand is from the speculators themselves. It is not self sustaining, but it won't last.


1. Old cash rich folks. Instead of putting their money under the pillow they heard from people that props are a good hedge against inflation, and sure to go up. (Speculation)

2. Foreigners. They heard that prop market here very cheap, and seems like will keep going up (Speculation)

3. Malaysians working overseas. Donno what to do with money while working abroad. Unable to afford house overseas. Hope to use prop to stash their cash, which they hope they could use when they come back. (Speculation)

The real demand comes from genuine home buyers. but they are lacking.
How is the prop price going to increase without demand from genuine buyers?

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Mar 24 2011, 04:33 PM

Yes. That is the irony. We are like flies over a pile of dung. Nobody realise it's nothing but dung. But who cares? It's still food.

Ya, have to agree with you. Do we really rely on speculators for our own rice bowl? Perhaps now there will be less people going vacation abroad? Speculators can dump their props on the market, but they will continue to spend on their necessities.

You're right, if you can't beat them, join them. The world is not perfect, lets exploit it.


It's called a 'home' for a reason. So what if your home is worth much less than you paid for? It's still your home. But your investment, now that's a different story.

If balls are needed, then it's a gamble. Why gamble with your "home"? That's crazy. Buy only what we can afford. Conclusion right now... cannot afford. It's not gambling.

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Mar 28 2011, 10:22 AM

Non sequitor :

Yesterday, I talked to a bank agent, and to my surprise, he says I should be able to get a loan of more than 40% my basic. My credit card credit limit according to him is not important, whereas if I always paid them it will be good for my chances.

If this is how local banks do business, I'm not sure whether to be happy or sad.

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This is how I see it. While having a good repayment history is a plus for my loan approval. I believe that the credit limit will be a bigger factor; because with a blink of an eye, I could be in debts of 5~ 10K. And it's the norm that people are killed by credit card debts.

It's either the local banks are too lax in their lending, or the agent is too keen to get me to sign up, as that's how he gets his commission.

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Apr 4 2011, 11:07 AM

Yes. But consider the amount of existing debt that he may find himself in, I personally would weigh that over the fact that previously you are a good pay master.

Because it doesn't mean that just because you were able to pay last time, that you will still be able to pay. What it does means is that, if previously you were struggling with your credit card, then it would most likely be that you are going to have a hell of a time paying back a loan too.

What having credit cards to me means, is that with a snap of a finger, you may suddenly find yourself borrowing a few K from the bank. As such, it should be treated as a standing loan. And just because you are able to pay your current loan, doesn't mean that you can pay "despite" of it.

This is what I understand, from the little bit of banking experience I had.

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Added on April 4, 2011, 3:05 pmI do not know the inside of local bank lending policy, but I had experience with lending in a different country.

And it does seem that credit limit is the thing that make or breaks your approval chances by quite abit.

I really hate our local banking scene, and I find that they are pretty unethical, and have runaway policies.

For one, I once had to argue with a bank clerk that I shouldn't have to sign up for a credit card to get a simple savings account. To which she says I had to get it, as it was part of the banks policy for savings accounts created for my company.

At the end of the day, it was a matter of whether I still wanted to create the account and get my salary, so I just signed the blasted thing. When I went back to office, I found out that a colleague who went just a few days ago, did not have to apply for the credit card. So I made a call to HR to settle this with the bank.

A few months later I got a mail from the bank, saying that my credit card was not approved....

I was like wtf??!! What do you mean "not approved" I didn't want it in the first place. What this means is that the bank clerk had gone ahead with my application, and just doctored some details so that I won't get the card as I had "wished".

Blasted clerk, she should be jailed for that.

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Apr 4 2011, 03:05 PM

It's not only that. It's going to effect my credit score. "Failed once for credit card application."

And as many people do not realise this. Each inquiry of the credit score reduces it.

It's true that all these has kept going up. But we must realise that they are slightly different in nature.

You see, first of all, nobody speculates on food or clothing. They don't buy them, keep in a warehouse then sell them when the price goes up.

Actually, it is possible to horde sugar and rice. This is why there are laws against this.

But for property, it is a different. There are no laws preventing people from owning several props, and or charging any amount for the props. The price of the props may and probably has overshot it's actual price because of speculation.

2ndly, we must realise that even if Teh tarik was Rm1 or RM1.10 people will still be able to afford it. But a house which is an extra of a few K... wow... We will come to a point whereby either, 1.) The whole nation gets a salary adjustment impar with inflation 2.) Genuine buyers stop buying houses.

And this is the determining factor which will cause a price drop.

The only question is... "are we there yet?"

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Apr 5 2011, 02:08 PM

In Melaka, it's not as good as KL. Over here, there is no MRT.

And what's worst, Melaka is notorious for its traffic lights which makes your long journey even more unbearable.

What happens when everybody hedges their extra cash in props. Alot of good that will do.

Ah... typical chinese.... "kiasu" comes to mind.

Everything they see is money. Whether it is right or wrong, whether it is sustainable never cross their minds.

Sad to say this but it's true.

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Added on April 18, 2011, 3:01 pmEarlier on, I was talking about the commercial props in Melaka. The abandon shop lots, in Melaka Raya.

Recently I found out that they're going to build more double storey shoplots on the recently reclaimed land. 400K+ per unit (not cheap for malaccans).

So what do you think will happen here?

Does this help the malacca's economy? I see 2 possible outcomes - one its a flop, more abandon buildings.

2. The government redirects traffic again, concentrating to those areas. Current places will become even more deserted.

Yay.

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Apr 18 2011, 03:01 PM

Talking about a genuine home owner, when one buys another house to upgrade/downgrade, he also dumps a house in the market too. Therefore we can't use this as a means to indicate that props will continue to sell.

When a smaller house, is changed to a bigger house, this means that we have a bigger appetite for land, which indicates a market demand. But like what iceman said, in the end, we end up dumping all our props and downgrade. This offsets it.

What this means is that the land and materials that was needed to build a bungalow, can be used to build 3 smaller houses. Which therefore means, less prop demand.

It's not just KL. It's happening in Melaka too. Why the heck would anybody migrate here? for Historical benefits?

A new launch 320K recently increase to 328K within a month, and soon to be 338K when the developer removes the 10K "discount".

Those in KL may say this is cheap but this is malacca salary we are refering to. And out of town for us, is really out of town. People travel at 40km/hour and less on certain trunk roads, imagine that.

And don't forget the multitudes of traffic lights... heck we are notorious for those.

I think you only have half the equation. As I said, as a KL person you will be comparing it with your own salary.

In melaka, With the exception of 2 or 3 companies, a senior guy gets less than 3K. If you're lucky to be in an international company you get 3K+

If you are a manager, you get roughly 4 to 5 K... this is much less than what you guys are making in KL.

If you were a freshie, and you joined an average company, don't be surprised to get 2K or less after probation.

RM1500K per month, would therefore be roughly 50% of an average senior executive's gross salary... So who then are those who can afford this houses?

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Also take note, that I am referring to the sudden price hike. The rate which it is increasing is ungodly. 10~20K within a month? can you imagine that?

This could perhaps be a ploy by the developers to heat up the price of their props.

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Added on April 19, 2011, 2:18 pmAnother thing is, you can't equate melaka outskirts with KL outskirts. Over hear our highways aren't real highways. We got traffic lights everywhere. And in some parts the road condition is not so good.

Heck I'm not sure why, but people travel very slowly... pot holes? malaccan drivers?

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Apr 19 2011, 02:18 PM

I do not deny that KV price hike is worst than Malacca. Nonetheless, it is just as worrying, and an idicator of speculative price hike.

Lending rates may still be affordable now. But it seems the banks are starting to get worried too, rates are going up.

What will happen then?

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The funny thing about supply and demand: Even if there were 10 items but only 1 request. If all 10 items are sold at the cost of an arm and a leg, we would still buy them.

Right now people buy because this is the price we are told it is, and we do not care much, because we have no other choice and the number of zeroes are all taken care of by the bank loan.

But there will come a time when too much is too much.

We achieve high wage status by printing another 0 at the back of our currency... a hell of a good that is