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Financial Are property prices going to drop? V2, The heated debate continues

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property101
post Apr 3 2011, 11:19 PM

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QUOTE(tigana @ Apr 3 2011, 10:13 PM)
...What a coincidence - the MRT phase 1 also aligned like that from North West to South East...
you sure it's a coincidence? brows.gif
property101
post Apr 7 2011, 10:35 PM

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QUOTE(kh8668 @ Apr 7 2011, 08:51 PM)
Yeah
Actually there are still a lot affordable housing. Don't be so picky then sure get one
*
exactly
if the buyer's requirement are:
- MUST be DSL,
- MUST be located in prime location
- MUST be 20 min from KL city
- MUST be freehold
- MUST be NEW
- and the MUST list continues...

the buyer can always continue to pray and wait for property price to drop, while there are people who are not so picky already buying, flipping, receiving rental income
property101
post Apr 9 2011, 10:15 AM

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Another 2 optimistic views on property market:

Property market to continue strong growth, Apr 9, 2011
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


No reduction in property launches, Apr 9, 2011
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

property101
post Apr 17 2011, 11:29 PM

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QUOTE(room2009 @ Apr 17 2011, 10:48 PM)
the property market actually is boom up by Najib economic transformation plan, and the truth behind the plan is actually copy from Mahathir 90s economic plan, which was brought Malaysia economic disaster on 1998.
If u study malaysia economic, when 1997 the props market also as hit as now, foreign money flew in very fast, cause malaysia economic grew fast, but the government didn't really have a strong backup, once foreign money gone, finance collapse, props drop.. company bankrupt, ppl lost their job, many ppl pokai..
who is expecting the market collapse so they can buy a cheap prop.. if the time really happen, i think u need to worry another thing... recession.
*
when the country is in recession, no matter how cheap, most people wont be buying (thats what caused the recession in the first place - everything is interrelated), and my bet is the same group of the people who is 'afraid' of buying now, would be afraid of buying too by then

This post has been edited by property101: Apr 17 2011, 11:33 PM
property101
post Apr 19 2011, 01:36 PM

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QUOTE(eugene jk @ Apr 19 2011, 12:18 PM)
300k in Melaka is nothing compare to >500k in KL.. price in Melaka is pretty stagnant for the passed few years.. despite property booming this few years, houses in Melaka still did not appreciate more than 100k .. Klang Valley and increased more than 200k..

The important factor we should analyze is cheap financing rather than property price...

TheDoer, I know Melaka houses were selling 240k 5 years ago.. given financing 5 years ago (before US subprime and Malaysia economy was doing pretty well) was BLR+1% (6.75+1 = 7.5%), given 10% downpayment, loaning 216k, 30 years tenure turns out to be RM1547/month...

what about now? you mention house in Melaka is 328k, given current financing BLR-2.3% (6.3-2.3=4%), given 10% downpayment, loaning 295k, 30 years tenure turns out to be RM1409/month, montly installment is even cheaper than 5 years ago despite price had escalated so much..

Even BLR will raise to 7%, your interest rate is still only 4.7% and your installment is still on par with 5 years ago.. the only thing is your downpaymnet will be more than 5 years ago (developer giving 10% discount anyway, so what the neck)...

I just want to point out that, despite house price had escalated, but financing still remain affordable and even cheaper even though house price had increase.. since you can afford RM1500/month anyway, why not developer increase the price and reap the profit?

Is bank losing money my giving BLR-2.3%? just read banks financial report, they are earning every year and profit getting more and more..

Will property drop? NO....

1) as long as cheap financing exist in the market, it will prop price raise or sustain..
2) Loan tenure getting longer and longer.. 20yrs > 30 yrs > 40yrs .. now Hongleong and Maybank even launch the new scheme, where 1st 30yrs you only pay down 50% of the installment, while the rest 50% is being paid lumpsum after 30 yrs.. soon I foresee 2 generation loan.... Tenure getting longer and longer is a sign of getting monthly installment lower and lower.. and you know this will create prop price to go higher and higher..
3) There is only that much of limit to regulate financing.. over regulating will hurt the 1st time buyers and also slowing down the property market which the government will try to avoid.. giving 100% loan for salary below 3k for 220k below prop is also a sign not to slow down the prop market while keep owning a house reachable for low income group.. 70%LTV is the best they can do for the time being, being a season investor, there is no stopping from them because they got so used to it.. If cant invest expensive houses, they may opt for investing houses that are <1 mil, houses category which are for the masses, "rich get richer, poor get poorer".
4) Government will still keep the prop market vibrant at least until 2020.. In order to get into high income country, income per-population has to be increased.. As mention, "rich get richer, poor get poorer", I foresee wealth gap getting wider.. 10% of Msia population commands 90% of the country's wealth, while 90% commands 10% of the wealth, so once the 10% rich ppl gets richer, on average our country's income per-population increase (total income / total population).. wah-lah.. we are now high income nation (on number looks nice), but what about the 90% population?? <- anyway, this is just my opinion
*
interesting analysis
base on your argument, i'm curious to know what cause the current cheap financing and what will trigger the back the expensive financing like BLR +1.x
property101
post Apr 21 2011, 01:31 PM

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QUOTE(soongkm @ Apr 21 2011, 12:07 PM)
This piece of news is the typical "goreng-goreng" news la.  Indirectly telling the people, to BUY BUY BUY before it goes up again...If you believe mah go and buy many many units loh, so you will earn more and more money by end of this year.
*
why government is spreading goreng-goreng news?
property101
post Apr 21 2011, 11:17 PM

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QUOTE(locke @ Apr 21 2011, 10:29 PM)
The property rise 10-20%. The Inflation is 2.4%.

These 2 sentence do not make sense together. If the property inflate by 10-20% how can the inflation be 2.4%?
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first of all, that is the official number, the actual inflation is usually higher. (by the way, last i read the inflation rate is 2.9% instead of 2.4%)

secondly, the number above is an average number - which means there are some goods (such as electronic devices) deflated while some goods (such as property) inflated. the average number is still positive, which means the goods that price has increased is way more than the goods that price has decreased.

This post has been edited by property101: Apr 21 2011, 11:18 PM
property101
post Apr 22 2011, 10:44 AM

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an example of 5% is china which last reported (march 2011) inflation rate is 5.4%
property101
post Apr 22 2011, 10:54 PM

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a question for fellow property investors:
assuming there is a slight drop and property stagnant for a while in the near future, and you started bleeding cash to feed the installment. although you do have the holding power, i'm sure u do not want to indefinitely bleeding cash, how long the period is acceptable for an investor to keep holding on before cut lost?
property101
post Apr 22 2011, 11:10 PM

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QUOTE(PUPUMAMA @ Apr 22 2011, 11:04 PM)
What do yout think for those cash rich Investors with strong holding power will let go their unit even break-even point? I assume they will keep holding on or pass it to their children. No one can predict how much psf for 20 years later. Finger cross people.
*
cash rich is how rich? so rich that they can pay off the property without loan? then i'm sure they will not want to let go because while the property is appreciating, any rental come in is considered bonus.
(assuming liquidity of they capital / cash is not a problem since u mention they are cash rich tongue.gif )
property101
post Apr 22 2011, 11:24 PM

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QUOTE(PUPUMAMA @ Apr 22 2011, 11:17 PM)
Since your nick is property101 and I assume you have lot more experience about property than me.
Do you know there's lots of uncle millionaires out there are still driving proton? Exclude those with Merc/BMW.
Sometimes is unpredictable and don't judge the book by it's cover.
*
yeah, i know those uncle millionaires who still wear worn out t-shirt and old slipper to go out tongue.gif
i guess thats what makes them a millionaire in the first place

This post has been edited by property101: Apr 22 2011, 11:25 PM
property101
post Apr 22 2011, 11:57 PM

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QUOTE(PUPUMAMA @ Apr 22 2011, 11:28 PM)
Agree... Some are still a cashier in their own shop/ medical hall. nod.gif
Unlike the youngsters that went out and spent all out with girls.
*
i noticed a lot of youngster spend their money on electronic device, overseas holiday, expensive food, an impressive car, result in little saving and bad financial planning

then some start complaining property price is too expensive

This post has been edited by property101: Apr 23 2011, 12:09 AM
property101
post Apr 23 2011, 03:18 AM

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QUOTE(super911 @ Apr 23 2011, 12:46 AM)
I think the property market is experiencing soft landing at this moment. Talked to a few bankers, loan application has dropped quite significantly. Besides that, you can also see that a lot of new launches nowadays got many units still available even though already launched for more than 1 month.
*
because now the trend is everyone including (even aunty, uncle, plus some of my friends and a colleague (fresh grad)) started giving advice about property price is overpriced, dont buy first and wait for it to come down

This post has been edited by property101: Apr 23 2011, 04:03 AM
property101
post Apr 23 2011, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(eugene jk @ Apr 23 2011, 11:06 AM)
...
IMHO, minor cash bleeding is still tolerable as long as you are confident the prop you are holding will give good returns in the long run..
I was suffering -ve cash flow when I bought my 1st prop 5 years ago bcos the place was untested, and interest rate was high.. not long after 1 year, when the valuation was pretty clear for that place, the rental was increase and thats where I started to gain some +cash flow, and 5 year down the road, the price had appreciated close to 100%..
...
curious, what was your deciding factor that made you go into an untested area?
in 5 years gained 100% appreciation and even enjoying +ve cash flow sounds pretty good
mind sharing which project / location? laugh.gif

This post has been edited by property101: Apr 23 2011, 11:27 AM
property101
post Apr 23 2011, 11:40 AM

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QUOTE(eugene jk @ Apr 23 2011, 11:27 AM)
Villa Pavilion bukit serdang.. Potential was it is just behind TPM where all the IT companys are and APIIT..
It was untested due to it was the onli apartment around the area..
*
yeah, then totally agree, that was totally "untested". and to be exact, i personally found it risky back then to buy Villa Pavilion due to:
1. no direct access to TPM
2. APIIT students are mostly tenanted at arena green, vista A B C, the several endah condo in sri petaling, fortune park, east lake - all have bus provided, but not to Villa Pavilion
3. APIIT was having the talk of moving to Subang campus (but apparently didnt happen since Sapura came in)

congratz for making it

This post has been edited by property101: Apr 23 2011, 11:46 AM
property101
post Apr 23 2011, 11:45 AM

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QUOTE(wankongyew @ Apr 23 2011, 11:29 AM)
In such a perfect storm of bad events, I think there is a serious chance of companies going under and people actually losing their jobs in Malaysia. How long can people afford their installments if they lose their salaries? Personally, I have enough liquidity to last me a year or more even if I were unemployed. But do other people have similar holding power?
my experience is my company is expanding (aggressively), target to hire another 150 staff in 1 year

property101
post Apr 23 2011, 12:06 PM

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however i dont think today's property price is goreng by youngster, they can at most holding 2 units, that also i would say is very rare. most of them already having enough problem with their spending, saving and personal finance. more likely is the cash rich middle age / elderly people who has stronger holding power who goreng the market.
property101
post Apr 23 2011, 09:51 PM

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QUOTE(UFO-ET @ Apr 23 2011, 07:04 PM)
Is new launch cheaper? I dun agree, look at the current Bkt Jalil new condo price, are they priced lower than those existing old condo?
*
new launch is usually more expensive if compare price psf
however it is more attractive in a sense that
1. developer will absorb a lot of transactional cost
2. as long as purchaser is not over-geared, purchaser is almost guaranteed to get 90% - 100% loan
3. purchaser is literally sitting there to wait for property to appreciate in value without doing any work
4. the new factor
property101
post Apr 25 2011, 12:07 AM

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QUOTE(bluesfingers @ Apr 24 2011, 10:51 PM)
Someone say in any "market" when uncles, aunties, ah sou, ah beng, etc coming in is the time for u to run  biggrin.gif
*
i used to have the same thought, until recently this idea shaken a little, i'm sure the statement was true for stock, unit trust etc, but i'm not too sure about property
my justification is such:
1. property has "real" value,
2. human need a property to "survive"
3. anyone can easily use small amount of money to buy stock, unit trust, etc (therefore can also be disposed off quickly, that lead to a crash easier) - but property transaction commitment is bigger, more time consuming and complicated, people might think really seriously prior to (buy or) disposing even one unit
4. the uncles, aunties, ah sou, ah beng, etc who buy property generally have deeper pocket - comparing to uncles, aunties, ah sou, ah beng, etc who buy stock, unit trust, etc

it's not easy for it to crash, but if it does, thats the last thing most people want to see
property101
post Apr 25 2011, 12:47 AM

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QUOTE(eugene jk @ Apr 25 2011, 12:28 AM)
Why unit trust  hmm.gif
*
why not unit trust? smile.gif
sorry, not exactly sure what your question is
but generally speaking, in year 2007 i could recall everyone was buying unit trust. unit trust agent were everywhere. from freshgrad youngster until retired aunty uncle were all buying without knowing what was happening or what they were buying.
this example basically is to add on to someone posted above something similar to "when all the aunty uncle ah beng ah lian are entering into the market, it is the best to time to run"
in 2008, many unit trust price felt sharply - so if the person has practice the "when all the aunty uncle ah beng ah lian are entering into the market, it is the best to time to run" rule, the person is safe in the above example

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