LOl ... spiritually speaking ... The seraphim, they are for God’s holiness (Isa. 6:3), referring to God’s nature, and as the cherubim, they are for God’s glory (Ezek. 10:18-19; Heb. 9:5), referring to God’s expression. Hence, they stand for God’s nature and expression.

When they bar Adam and Eve, it is saying that both of them falls short of God's expression and holiness.

This post has been edited by pehkay: May 20 2011, 04:09 PM

Err ... nope I am not talking about purgatory. It is definitely not scriptural.

Hades definitely has two parts. One part is the place of flames where the rich man was, and the other is the place of comfort and joy where Lazarus was in the bosom of Abraham. Luke also calls this place Paradise, the place where the spirits and souls of the saved ones in past generations are resting.

Haha ya... .. two special cases: Moses and Elijah ... I suspect they will be the last 2 witnesses in Revelation since they are kept in a "special place".

Jude 9 “But Michael the archangel, when disputing with the Devil, arguing concerning the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a reviling judgment against him, but said, The Lord rebuke you.” The body of Moses was buried by the Lord in a valley in the land of Moab, in a place known by no man (Deut. 34:6). It must have been purposely done in this manner by the Lord. When Moses and Elijah appeared with Christ on the mount of transfiguration (Matt. 17:3), Moses must have been manifested in his body, which was kept by the Lord and resurrected. Probably, in view of this, the Devil attempted to do something to his body, and the archangel argued with him concerning this. The reference in 2 Peter 2:11 is general, but this is a definite case, concerning the body of Moses.

But <shrug> .. who knows... the Devil seem to know where it is ...

Well, some verses:

Genesis 42:38 says, “Then you will bring down my gray hairs in sorrow to Sheol.” These were Jacob’s words.

Psalm 16:10 says, “For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol.”

In Luke 23 the repentant robber who was being crucified said to the Lord Jesus, “Jesus, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.” And Jesus said to him, “Truly I say to you, Today you shall be with Me in Paradise” (vv. 42-43). This word clearly shows us that on the same day that the Lord Jesus died, the robber went with Him to Paradise.

Matthew 12:40 says, “For just as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.” The Lord died and was in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights. Immediately after the Lord yielded up His spirit on the cross, His spirit and soul departed from His body, not to go to a heavenly mansion but to Hades, and stayed in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.

Acts 2:31 says, “He, seeing this beforehand, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was He abandoned to Hades.” After reading Matthew 12:40 some may think that the Lord Jesus being in the heart of the earth refers to His body being buried in the earth and not to His spirit and soul being in Hades. However, concerning the resurrection of Christ Acts says that His spirit and soul were not abandoned to Hades, showing us that after the Lord died, His spirit and soul went to Hades. The Lord Jesus clearly told the robber, “Today you shall be with Me in Paradise.” Paradise is a section of Hades. From Genesis to Acts we are told that the spirits and souls of all the saved ones throughout the generations go to a place of rest in Hades after death. This place is the Paradise in Hades.




This post has been edited by pehkay: May 20 2011, 04:22 PM

Haha ... looks like a typo .. my bad .. the sentence "not abandoned to Hades" = "left in Hades" .. but He resurrected XD ... So he wasn't abandoned in Hades (like no way out). Only He overcome the death stronghold

This post has been edited by pehkay: May 20 2011, 04:49 PM

I posted this somewhere ... hope it is helpful for you:

God is uniquely one yet three

First Corinthians 8:4: "There is no God but one."

Isaiah 45:5: "I am Jehovah and there is no one else;/Besides Me there is no God." In verses 6, 21, and 22; 46:9; and 44:6, 8, we also find the same words.

Psalm 86:10: "Thou art God alone."

Although there is only one God, the Bible also reveals that this one God is plural, that He has the aspect of three. Genesis 1:1 says that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The Hebrew word for God in this verse is Elohim, which is plural in number.

Genesis 1:26 records that God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.” The words us and our show that the one God has a plural aspect. In Isaiah 6:8 God said, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?” In this verse I is us, and us is I. These verses shows us that God is not merely singular or merely plural. The God revealed in the Bible is “uni-plural.”

In Matthew 28:19 the Lord Jesus charged the disciples to baptize people into the name (singular) of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. C. I. Scofield says in a note to this verse in his reference Bible: “The word is in the singular, the `name,’ not names. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is the final name of the one true God.”

The Eternal Coexistence and Coinherence of the Divine Trinity

Isaiah 9:6 says, "Unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given...and his name shall be called...Mighty God, Everlasting Father." In this verse, the "Mighty God" matches the "child," and "Everlasting Father" matches the "son." Yes, He is a child, yet He is the Mighty God. The child who was born in the manger in Bethlehem was the Mighty God.

John 14:7-11 says, "If ye had known me, ye would have known my Father also: from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and dost thou not know me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; how sayest thou, Show us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I say unto you I speak not from myself: but the Father abiding in me doeth his works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake." In these verses the Lord clearly reveals to us the mystery that He and the Father are one; He is in the Father and the Father is in Him; when He speaks, it is the Father who works; when men see Him, they see the Father; when they know Him, they know the Father, because He is the Father; He "and the Father are one" (John 10:30).

Second Corinthians 3:17 says, "The Lord is the Spirit." The "Lord" spoken of here, of course, is the Lord Jesus; and "the Spirit," of course, is the Holy Spirit.

The Father is God. Eph 1:17, 4:6, 1 Cor 1:3
Son is God. Heb 1:8, Romans 9:5, John 1:1,14
Spirit is God. In Acts 5 Peter told Ananias that he had lied to the Holy Spirit (v. 3). Then he said, “You have not lied to men but to God” (v. 4).

I guess there is just too many references to list here. Hope it helps.

The Father Is Eternal. Isa. 9:6;
The Son Is Eternal. Heb. 7:3;
The Spirit Is Eternal. Heb. 9:14

All Three of the Trinity are eternal. The Father, Son, and Spirit do not exist in three temporary, successive modes or stages. According to Isaiah 9:6, the Father is the eternal Father. Additionally, the Son, as the real Melchisedec in Hebrews 7:3, has “neither beginning of days nor end of life.” He is our High Priest perpetually. He is forever the same, and His years will not fail (Heb. 1:12). Finally, it was through the eternal Spirit that Christ offered Himself on the cross without blemish to God (Heb. 9:14).

The Father, the Son, and the Spirit Coexist and Coinhere. John 14:26; 15:26

That the Three of the Godhead are eternal implies that They coexist from eternity past through eternity future. Many verses demonstrate the coexistence among the Three of the Triune God. In one of the most graphic, Matthew’s account of Christ’s baptism, as Jesus the Son went up from the water, the Spirit of God descended upon Him as a dove and the Father testified from the heavens of His beloved Son (3:16-17). This scene clearly portrays the simultaneous existence of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. Further, in John 14:16-17 the Son promised to ask the Father to send the Spirit of reality as the second Comforter; the Father answered the Son’s prayer by sending the Spirit (John 14:26).

The Father and the Son Are Inseparable. John 14:10-11; 8:29; 16:32

Though the Three are distinct in their eternal coexistence, They are by no means three separate Gods. Rather, They coinhere mutually and inseparably; that is, They indwell one another. Throughout the Gospels, the Lord Jesus took many opportunities to reveal to the disciples His mysterious coinherent relationship with the Father. For example, in John 14:11, the Lord responded to Philip’s desire to see the Father by assuring him of Their intrinsic oneness: “Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me.” Thus the Son, while physically on the earth, mystically dwelt in the Father and the Father in the Son. In addition, the Lord declared in John 6:46, “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except Him who is from God, He has seen the Father.” The Greek preposition para, translated “from” in this verse, literally means “from with.” Hence, the Son sent from God was simultaneously sent with God. The Lord testified of this intimate inseparability: “He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone” (John 8:29).

I finish this post with this:

In order to know the truth concerning the Triune God in a full, complete, and balanced way. We need to see principle of the twofoldness of divine truth. Robert Govett in his booklet, "The Twofoldness of Divine Truth", says

The twofoldness of truth as offered to our view in Holy Writ is one strong argument of its not being the work of man. It is the glory of man’s intellect to produce oneness. His aim is to trace different results to one principle, to clear it of ambiguities, to show how, through varied appearances, one law holds. Anything that stands in the way of the completeness of this, he eludes or denies.

“But,” as Govett continues, “it is not so with God. In nature He is continually acting with two seemingly opposed principles”. Therefore, Govett says, “It is not then to be wondered at, if two seemingly opposed principles are found placed side by side in the Scripture. ‘Unity in plurality, plurality in unity’ is the main principle on which both the world and the Scripture are constructed”.

Recognizing that the truth concerning the Triune God is twofold is a requirement for knowing God in His trinity. This twofoldness of the truth is embodied in the word triune, a Latin word composed of tri-, meaning three, and -une, meaning one. To say that God is triune is to testify that He is three-one. He is uniquely one, yet He is distinctly and inseparably three. In the Godhead the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are distinct but inseparable. In God’s being one there is no separation among the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, and in God’s being three there is a distinction among the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. The three of the Trinity cannot be separated, yet there is a distinction among them. This is the twofoldness of the truth concerning the Triune God.

Unfortunately ... no. :/ The Bible is quite explicit on it (with reference to Luke 16:19-31 - Lazarus and rich man). Unbelievers will have no hope of salvation after death. It is only in our individual lifetime.

That verse indicate that the family of the believer is a complete unit for God's salvation, like the family of Noah (Gen. 7:1), the families partaking of the Passover (Exo. 12:3-4), the family of the harlot Rahab (Josh. 2:18-19), the family of Zaccheus (Luke 19:9), the family of Cornelius (11:14), the family of Lydia (v. 15), the family of the jailer here, and the family of Crispus in 18:8.

"And Jesus said to him, Today salvation has come to this house" (Luke 19:9).

This word of the Lord Jesus was spoken to a great sinner, Zaccheus the tax collector, confirming that a family is the unit of God's salvation brought by the Lord. The Lord did not say that salvation had come to that person that day, but rather that salvation had come to that house. Undoubtedly, the Lord wanted Zaccheus's entire household to believe in Him and be saved. The Lord's word to Zaccheus was at once a suggestion and a notice to him!

"And leading them [the Apostles Paul and Silas] outside, he said, Sirs, what must I do that I may be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved, you and your household" (Acts 16:30-31).

This is the dialogue between the Philippian jailer and the two apostles. The jailer asked what he himself should do to be saved; however, the apostles answered that not only he himself but also he and his household would be saved. This proves that in the heart of the apostles, sent by the Lord to preach His gospel, the Lord's salvation was for the individual, while its unit was the household. Again, the apostles' word to the jailer is both a suggestion and a notice that he should not only pay attention to his personal salvation, but also to that of his whole family!

"Send to Joppa and send for Simon who is surnamed Peter, who will speak words to you by which you shall be saved, you and all your household" (Acts 11:13-14). "And Cornelius was awaiting them, having called together his relatives and intimate friends" (Acts 10:24). "While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those hearing the word" (Acts 10:44). "And he charged them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ" (Acts 10:48).

This is the story of the salvation of the household of Cornelius, who was a centurion in the Roman military, and of his intimate friends. This story also proves that a person's entire family is the unit of the salvation applied by the Spirit upon men. Cornelius led not only his whole family but also his intimate friends to receive the Lord. This coincides with what was mentioned before, that is, that an entire Israelite household should share the Passover lamb with their neighbor.
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But it does not mean that we do nothing on our side and assume the Lord will do it. Like I mentioned before, predestination and human responsibility goes hand in hand. I will quote from one section:

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FACT

God has accomplished everything for man. Since everything has been accomplished, certain “facts” exist. And since they are existing “facts,” man does not have to accomplish what has already been accomplished. All of God’s works are complete.

However, God’s grace is a righteous grace. This is why, with the “facts,” there is still the need for human cooperation. What kind of cooperation is this? It is not to add anything to what He has finished, but to have man acknowledge that what God has done is real. This is faith.

FAITH

Faith is to acknowledge that what God has said and done is true. Faith is to accept the facts, that is, to acknowledge them as facts.

Faith is a “cashing in.” I use the words “cashing in” in the sense of one cashing a check at the bank. Suppose someone gives you a check. That the bank has the money is a fact. For you to cash the check for money is to acknowledge the fact that the bank possesses whatever amount is written on the check. It takes faith to “cash in.” With faith, one can cash in and thereby have the money to use. Now, to spend the money is the experience.” To have the money in the bank is the “fact,” to cash the check is “faith,” and to spend the money is “experience.” In God’s grace, what He has done for man are facts. But man must still experience these facts.

EXPERIENCE

To experience God’s grace is to claim by faith the facts that God has accomplished for man. These facts are accomplished by God. What man needs is faith. The facts belong to God, and the experience belongs to man. Thus, faith is God’s facts becoming man’s experience. What the Bible shows us is simply “fact, faith, and experience.”

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I known a believer who was saved and he prayed for his parents daily, "claiming from God", reminding Him of the verses you mentioned on household salvation. Not only that, he took opportunity to preach the gospel to his parents whenever is possible. It took him after 30+ years for his parent's salvation. What I am saying, in his conscience, if God did not save his parents, is clear and he can say God did not predestined that his parents will be saved. He fulfilled his responsibility on his side.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jun 10 2011, 04:49 PM

Haha, that's what he said but it is not what he alluded to

Spiritually, I agreed with him that Christ's death is eternal. But, unfortunately, salvation after death is not possible. That would be very unrighteous. Imagine all those ended on the other side of Hades will definitely declare I want to believe into Christ. But, the rich man didn't have way as the parable shows that he pleaded with Abraham to send Lazarus back to preach to his brothers.

Christ in His incarnation came to earth not only to bring the infinite God into the finite man and to unite and mingle the Triune God with the tripartite man, but also to express the bountiful God in His humanity, His human living. God is bountiful in His rich and many attributes. The attributes of God are what God is. He is love, light, holiness, and righteousness. We all admire humility. The real humble One is God. He was the infinite God, but He humbled Himself to become a finite man. Philippians 2:6-7 says that He existed in the form of God, but He took the form of a slave, becoming in the likeness of men. Verse 8 says, "And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, becoming obedient even unto death, and that the death of a cross." He was in the form of God, but He humbled Himself to put on the form of man, becoming obedient to God, even unto the death of the cross. He became a servant, washing the feet of His disciples (John 13:1-11). God is the real One that is humble. Humility is one of the many attributes of God. God's attributes were expressed in Christ as a man to be Christ's virtues. Christ expressed the bountiful God in His human living, mainly expressing God in His rich attributes, that is, in the unsearchable riches of what God is.

When the attributes of God became the virtues of Christ in His humanity, these virtues were very aromatic and sweet. This is why so many people throughout the centuries have been captivated by Jesus and love Jesus. He is so sweet and good. Christ attracted and captivated people not by living His human life in the flesh but by living His divine life in resurrection.

What you are describing are two extremes in the people coming to the Word. This is why we need to know the two-foldness of the truth: the objective and subjective truth. If we can grasp these two aspects, we are able to grasp the tracks in the Bible. A train has two tracks on which to run. If there is only one track, the train will derail. With two tracks, the train can move ahead. Both the objective and subjective aspects of the truth need our attention.

The Bible is made up of words, but it is not man's word. It is God's word spoken through man. The Bible records the speaking of Daniel, Isaiah, Paul, etc. These men spoke on behalf of God, but this does not merely mean that God was speaking through Daniel, Isaiah, and Paul. It also means that the words that were spoken were also the words of Daniel, Isaiah, and Paul themselves.

It is not a question of how much of God's Word we can memorize or how well we can quote it. Nor is it a matter of how much we know or how familiar we are with God's Word. The real issue is whether or not we can represent God when we speak. We all know that Paul wrote two Epistles to the Corinthians. There are some words in his Epistles which he confessed were not commandments of the Lord (1 Cor. 7:25). He could say this because he had become one with Christ. We can say that he was speaking what the Lord was speaking. These words were not words of inspiration, but words that were the result of Paul's constitution. When Paul spoke, it was Christ speaking.

Words of inspiration and revelation can be received in an instant. But it takes a long process for Christ to be constituted and formed in us. This process cannot be accomplished within a short period of time. It is a prolonged work that goes on a little at a time. One has to maintain a continual hidden fellowship with the Lord before such constitution can be produced.

In quoting God's Word, we have to pay attention to one thing. It is not a matter of quoting the words that God spoke to men of old, like Moses, and applying it to situations today. It is a matter of whether or not we can speak what God wants us to speak when we quote such a word. In his time Moses spoke what God wanted him to speak. Can you say that God wants to speak the same thing to men today? Can you say that this is not just a quotation?

We must not only have God's spoken word, the logos, that is, the black and white letters, but also the Lord's shining of these spoken words in our spirit to become the instant word, the rhema, before we can speak these words.

For example, many people can give a message on the story of Cain and Abel. But it is not a matter of whether one can extract more novel teachings from these passages. It is a matter of whether or not God can speak what He wants to speak to man today through such a message.

PS ... why are there 2 testaments .... because Christ's coming marks the new .... the old Testament do not have Christ wrought into them but the new Testament does ...

So then if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things have passed away; behold, they have become new (2 Cor 5:17)

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jun 28 2011, 06:43 PM

The goal of God's salvation is to make us His vessels (Rom. 9:23-24). He put Himself as the "treasure" within us, the vessels (2 Cor. 4:7). From the time we were saved, God has been working on us continually to put more of Himself deeply into us so that we might gradually become lost in Him. This results in a deeper union in life with Him, which ultimately reaches perfection.

The goal of life is to bring God into man so that man may become lost in God. In this way, God and man, man and God become perfectly one.

It varies. But life is full of opportunities .. Every failures causes you to be open to the divine dispensing of God into you ...

Here's a song:

Life is full of opportunities
Ordered by our Father's hand: we see
Everything's the best that it could be,
So let's gain Christ!
Christ our content and reality
To shine out from us unceasingly:
He must have a way in you and me,
He must have a way.
Hallelujah! In the body we
Bear the death of Christ continually:
Thus His life comes forth for all to see as
The outer man is broken down,
The inner man is shining so that—
In these earthen vessels men can see
There's the treasure of reality!
Thus the gospel's glorious light will be
Shining out from us.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Aug 4 2011, 10:24 AM

It is achievable progressively when you grow in the divine life. Also walking by the spirit moment by moment as the most practical way.

For me experientially, from 1 hours to 7-8 hours, when I exercise to be in His presence, call on His name, enjoy His grace, prayed for His will, pray over His words, in everyday ordinary things ....

Yeah ... it is an exercise to follow the anointing ..

This post has been edited by pehkay: Aug 4 2011, 10:54 AM

If Adam had not sinned, would God have reached His goal? No! Adam was created by God, but he was not begotten by God. The angels were created by God. Cattle, sheep, trees, and, of course, man were all created by God. If man had not sinned, at the most he would have been the highest creature; he still would not have had God's life. God's goal is to dispense His life into the created man. Unless His life enters into man, His goal is not reached. Hebrews 2 says that God wants to bring many sons into glory. When He leads many sons into glory, God's goal is attained (v. 10). In Genesis 2 Adam did not lose his temper; he did not lie. He and Eve did not argue or fight as husband and wife, but even before they fell, they had need of life. They did not need life only after they fell. Whether or not Adam sinned, he still needed God's life. From the beginning God ordained that man would have His life.

Something I enjoyed:

The highest profession on earth is to spend time being infused with God that we may shine forth God. This is far greater than doing anything for God.

The highest profession on earth: This quote begins by challenging our personal value system: what profession do we esteem most highly? Doctors or nurses? Professors or teachers? Scholars, scientists, or statesmen? Perhaps a more enlightened Christian might say that “doing the will of God” or “serving God” is the highest profession on earth. However as we’ll consider below, even higher than doing something for God is to spend time “beholding and reflecting like a mirror the glory of the Lord” (2 Cor 3:18).

Spending time: For 40 days, Moses stayed with God on Mount Sinai. For 40 days, he didn’t eat, drink, or sleep — nor did he have any people, matters or things to distract him. For 40 days, Moses was alone with God, and notably God did not tell him to do anything. Instead, God infused Moses with Himself until the face of Moses shone with the light of God. This account impresses us not only for the sheer length of time spent, but also for the carefully designed privacy for Moses to be alone with God (Exo. 34:2-3).

It’s no surprise that as our human lives go on, we find that work, school, family, and even church-related obligations squeeze out other activities from our schedules. Unfortunately, often one of the first things to go is spending face-time alone with the Lord. This may create an inward uneasiness; we may be bothered that how we spend our time does not match what we value. However we are practically challenged to spend regular, intimate, and focused time with the Lord.

Despite a hurried, harried schedule, have you found practical ways to linger with the Lord privately? How are you able to allocate time to this highest profession on earth?

To be infused with God: While our natural instinct as believers is to do something for God, we’re helped to realize that mankind’s first day of existence on earth was God’s seventh day, a day of rest (Gen. 2:2-3). Man’s first activity was not to join in God’s work or labor for Him, but rather to rest with God and to be satisfied with Him.

How can we rest with God and be infused with God? A primary means is through prayer. We’re reminded of this classic passage: “The significance of prayer is to contact God in our spirit and to absorb God Himself. Prayer is the human spirit contacting the Spirit of God, through which man absorbs God. Therefore, the significance of prayer lies…in contacting and absorbing God.”

To shine forth God: The result of Moses receiving God’s infusing was that his face shone with the light of God (Exo. 34:24-35). Similarly, the result of God shining into our hearts through prayer is that we shine forth God’s light on others, and “illuminate the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ” (2 Cor 4:6).

This “beholding and reflecting…the glory of the Lord” (2 Cor. 3:18) is first for us to be infused and enlightened by the Lord, and second to enable others to see God through us. As we contact the Lord and absorb Him, spontaneously God shines through us onto others.

Hello!

Hmm ... what it got to do with my post ?

Anyway, after pre-Adamaic age, yeah, he is the first human created to contain God, express Him and represent Him. Yeah, we are his descendants.

What living creatures created during the pre-Adamic age, dinosaurs, whatever etc were judged during Satan's rebellion ... but then I digress.

An extract from Watchman Nee's book:

Sanctification is a much-debated topic today. As far as we know, all the teachings on sanctification take sanctification as a moral virtue, an act, or an inward condition. They all consider sanctification to be a thing, an object. If a person has this kind of concept, it means that he does not know what it means for Christ to be our sanctification.

Some Christians have a natural concept concerning sanctification. They think that sanctification is Christ coming to us and helping us become holy. What they are really saying is that they are not holy and that Christ is helping them to become holy. However, 1 Corinthians 1:30 says that Christ Jesus became to us from God sanctification. We are not sanctified through ourselves or through the help of Christ. Rather, Christ Himself has become our sanctification. Sanctification is in Christ, not in us. Sanctification is the person of Christ, not the help of Christ.

Other Christians think that sanctification is Christ giving us the power to become sanctified. Actually, man can never be sanctified, and God has no intention to give man the power to become sanctified. God's Word tells us clearly that Christ Jesus became to us from God sanctification. Our sanctification is a gift, a person, not the result of some kind of empowering. Only those who have seen this revelation can tell the difference between these two things. Only they can see the great distance between them. This revelation is not something that one can fathom with his mind. We must ask God to show us something; we must see that Christ did not come to help us to be holy. Neither did He come to give us the power to be holy. Rather, Christ Himself has become our sanctification.

Many Christians think that with sanctification there is a need for the power of sanctification on the one hand and a need to bear the fruit of sanctification on the other hand. They think that they will produce the fruit of sanctification if they have the power of sanctification. But where do they place Christ in this process? Most people say that Christ is necessary for power, because power will enable us to bear the fruit of sanctification. However, 1 Corinthians 1:30 does not say that Christ is a power to empower us to sanctification. Instead, it says that Christ Himself is our sanctification. We can have sanctification only after we have Christ, and we can have the fruit of sanctification only after we have Christ. Brothers and sisters, we may consider sanctification to be a thing, but God's Word shows us that Christ is that very thing. Our sanctification is a living person—Christ. Christ is our sanctification.

Suppose I am a proud person with no humility whatsoever. I can be aware of my pride, but I cannot humble myself. I may pray to God, saying, "Be merciful to me. Lord Jesus, empower me and make me humble." I think that I need the power of humility in order to be humble myself. If Christ helps me and empowers me, I think that I will surely become humble. I pray and ask for help, but this is only my own concept. It is not God's way of salvation. God has not given us the power of humility, but humility itself. God has given us a perfected humility—Christ. Is the Lord powerful? Of course He is. Has God given us this power? Surely He has. But why are we still so weak? Brothers and sisters, we have to realize that the Lord's power is real, but this power is not accessible to us as a thing. Even if we can be humble and even if we can have a perfect performance, we only have an act of humility at the most. Within us we still do not have humility itself. Humility is Christ Himself, not the power of Christ.

We should pray, "Lord, You are my humility. God has made You my humility. I ask that You live out Your humility from within me." This is the right attitude. In asking the Lord to be our humility, we should lift up our head and say, "Lord, I have no humility of my own. Be my humility and live out humility on my behalf." If we look to Him in this way, our humility will not be our own. Instead the Lord will become our humility, and our humility will no longer be a conduct, but a living person—Christ Himself.

When I was young, I loved to watch slide projection shows at school. After I believed in the Lord, the slide shows became a frequent illustration I used. The light behind the slides never changes, but the slides change all the time. Sometimes the light illuminates scenery, and sometimes it illuminates some kind of atmospheric phenomenon. Sometimes the light illuminates landscapes, and sometimes it illuminates flowers and trees. In the same way all virtues are just the different expressions of Christ being reflected in us. Humility, meekness, and patience are not works that we do; they are virtues of Christ. They are the very human virtues of Christ. In fact, they are just Christ Himself. All the different virtues radiate from the one unchanging life of Christ. These different virtues are produced as a result of the many different kinds of environments. Hence, the virtues of a Christian are not different types of conduct, they are the result of Christ being reflected in him. This is the meaning of Christ being our sanctification.

We do not need to manufacture a holiness of our own. Rather, we reflect Christ as holiness. Such a revelation and knowledge forms the basis of our Christian life. Many Christians are striving to be humble, obedient, and meek. Little do they realize that they are not producing reflections of Christ, but "products" of their own effort. Actually, none of these virtues can be planned or manufactured.

When many Christians try to forgive, they pray for the Lord's strength. Then they try to muster their own strength to forgive. Even then they find that they cannot forgive. We have to see that when our forgiveness runs out, we should ask the Lord to be our forgiveness. We should acknowledge that we cannot forgive in ourselves and that there is no forgiveness in us. We should lift up our head and say to the Lord, "I have been wrong. I have tried to be a Christian on my own. I will no longer do this. Lord, I will allow You to live out of me." The whole issue rests with the Lord Himself, not with you.

Haha... I guess I can share on the first question, albeit, harder one to answer ...

Jesus Christ was the first God-man on this earth. As the first, He is the prototype, and the model (Matt. 11:29a). He came as one grain of wheat to produce many grains (John 12:24). The one grain was the prototype, and the many grains are the mass production. The mass production is the duplication of the model. The Apostle Peter told us that Christ is a model to the believers (1 Pet. 2:21). The Greek word for model is literally a writing copy, an underwriting used by students to trace letters and thereby learn to draw them. We become the reproduction of Christ as the original writing copy. Christ is the prototype to produce a mass production and the model to produce the many duplications.

On the one hand, He is God .. on the other hand, He is man as a pattern. So, He still need to be a man of prayer as a pattern to His disciples. For 3.5 years, the disciples see a living, that is not a common man praying common prayers to God, as a pious man, a so-called godly man, praying to God in a religious way, or as a God-seeking man praying to God for the divine attainments and obtainments. His being a man of prayer was not even as merely a Christ-seeker praying desperately to gain Christ in His excellency (Phil. 3:12-14, 8). Instead, He was a man in the flesh praying to the mysterious God in the divine, mystical realm.

He was a man of prayer, a man who is one with God (John 10:30). We may be a Christ-seeker, desperately praying to gain Christ, yet we may not be one with God. He was also a man living in the presence of God without ceasing (Acts 10:38c; John 8:29; 16:32). He told us that He was never alone, but the Father was with Him. Every moment He saw His Father’s face. We may seek Christ, yet not live in the presence of God so closely and continuously without ceasing. Also, He trusted in God and not in Himself, under any kind of suffering and persecution. First Peter 2:23b says that in the midst of His suffering He did not speak threatening words but kept committing all to Him who judges righteously. Luke 23:46 says that at the time He was dying on the cross, He prayed, “Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit.” In our daily life, do we trust in God when trouble comes? Maybe we do to a small extent, but not absolutely.

In John 14:30 the Lord said, “The ruler of the world is coming, and in Me he has nothing.” This means that in the Lord Jesus, Satan as the ruler of the world had no ground, no chance, no hope, no possibility in anything. If we are enlightened, we will admit that Satan has too many things in us. He has the ground, the chance, the hope, and the possibility in many things. But here is a man of prayer who said that Satan, the ruler of the world, had nothing in Him. This is a particular sentence in the whole Bible. Thus, Christ was a man of prayer, a man who is one with God, lives in the presence of God continuously, trusts in God in His suffering and persecution, and in whom Satan has nothing.

Haha ... I know what you mean. There is a "picture" in the Old Testament. When the Israelites were brought into Canaan and have each been allotted a portion of the good land. If they did not labor on their portion of the land, they will suffer poverty as a consequence, even though the portion is very rich. If they did not labor, they will have nothing to eat, nothing on which to live. Then they will become poor. This is not the proper living of the Lord's children.

The proper condition is after the Israelites labored on the land ...out of the produce of this rich harvest, they should keep and separate one-tenth, the best part, with which to worship God. Thus, ninety percent is for our living and ten percent is for the service, the worship, the meeting (Deut. 12:17-18). Three times a year the children of Israel all had to go to the tent of meeting and bring the top ten percent of their produce to offer to God for His worship (16:16). They had much to live on richly and also had something with which to serve God, to worship God, to meet with the children of God.

This is a "picture" or type of us, Christians. If the entire week, we have never experienced or enjoyed Christ (labor on the good land) ... then, I don't think you have anything for your "10%" to offer to God. In other words, if you don't have any enjoyment of Christ in your daily life, you will have no desire to meet with other believers in the meetings. There is nothing to present to other believers of your experience / riches of Christ ...

Hope that helps ... XD

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jan 14 2012, 06:45 PM

Wow .. so much activities these few days Here is something I enjoyed ....

In Leviticus 2:1-13 we see the meal offering, which was ordained by God for the people of Israel – for God’s satisfaction. The meal offering was composed of fine flour mingled with oil, and frankincense on top of it. Also, salt needs to be added – salt shouldn’t be missing from the offering. This type was fulfilled in the person of the Lord Jesus, who had the highest humanity (the fine flour) mingled with divinity (the oil, the Spirit of God), living by the resurrection life and manifesting the aroma of resurrection (frankincense), and always living under the cross (the salt). Today we want to experience them, enjoy them, and become the reproduction of Christ as the meal offering church life.

The fine flour – the perfect humanity of Christ

If you read the Gospels you will be impressed with the high standard of humanity the Lord Jesus had. He had the highest and the best humanity, living a life according to the highest standard of morality. Story after story and case after case, we can see that His humanity was so high, and “it was oiled” with divinity, anointed by the Spirit of God. The Lord Jesus didn’t live only by and in His humanity – He lived by the divine life which saturated and mingled His human nature, having a life of a God-man – something that the world has never seen before!

The Lord Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit (see Matt. 1:20 and Luke 1:35), having the Spirit as His essence. Also, when He went out to minister, He was anointed with the Holy Spirit outwardly for His work (Matt. 3:16; John 1:32). Inwardly and outwardly Christ was oiled with the Holy Spirit, living a mingled life – a life of the divine life mingled with the human life. He expressed the bountiful God in His rich attributes through His aromatic virtues, not by living His human life in the flesh but by living His divine life in resurrection.

Frankincense – the fragrance of Christ in resurrection

There was an aroma about Christ when He was on the earth – people were inexplicably drawn to Him, absorbing the words coming out of His mouth, wanting to be with Him and around Him to the point that they forgot about their eating, and even desiring to touch the fringe of His garment to be healed… This is frankincense – the fragrance of Christ in resurrection. The Lord Jesus is resurrection and life (John 11:25), and He lived a life in resurrection, constantly denying His natural human life and living in the resurrection life.

Even though the Lord Jesus suffered a lot – He was rejected by His hometown people, His family, the priests, the religious leaders, He was mocked, persecuted, tested, and He did not have a place where to rest His head, etc – what came out of Him as a fragrance was NOT the sufferings but a fragrance of resurrection. The aroma of resurrection exuded out of Him, and people saw a man mingled with God living in resurrection on the earth. Nothing is as sweet, as fragrant, as attractive, and as pleasant as this aroma – it is satisfying to God and pleasing to man.

Salt – the cross of Christ

Salt is an element which kills germs, seasons, and preserves. It is a type of the death of Christ, the cross of Christ. God specifically ordained that salt would be added to the meal offering – what was pleasing to God and what satisfied Him was to see Christ living a life under the cross by the power of resurrection. The salt in Lev. 1:13 is the salt of the covenant of God – which is incorruptible and unchangeable. Christ was seasoned with salt – from manger to the cross He lived a crucified life, denying Himself, listening to the Father, and living by the divine life in resurrection (see John 6:57).

In the church life we need to have adequate salt – so that any ambition and natural affection would be crossed out. Anything that is natural is being killed by the germ-killing cross of Christ, and as long as the cross is here, salt is here and there’s no germs! By living a crucified life – one with Christ in His crucifixion – our ambition to be someone, our natural affection to the ones we like, our selective love, and anything of the natural man is being crossed out, salted, and killed. What remains is a sweet fragrance of living in Christ’s resurrection – a satisfying and pleasant aroma…
the meal offering church life

When you consider the life of the Lord Jesus and His living you will appreciate Him and love Him – truly, this One is the Father’s Beloved, so perfect, such a high humanity, living a life under the constant killing of the cross, a life in resurrection, a human life mingled with the divine life. This One is our food – we can eat Him, take Him in, be constituted with Him, and even become Him. By eating Jesus as the meal offering we become the corporate church life meal offering – so pleasing to God for His satisfaction! How we need to eat Him, allow the cross to operate, and live by another life – the divine life!

We are slowly and surely becoming the reproduction of Jesus Christ as the corporate meal offering church life! The genuine church today is nothing else but the corporate living of the believers in Christ who are the reproduction and duplication of Christ – it is Jesus living again in His believers. We are imitating Christ in His life by eating Christ and becoming Christ’s reproduction organically. We all are learning to deny ourselves, remaining in Christ’s death, living under the cross, by the power of Christ’s resurrection. When an unbeliever comes in and sees this, he senses that God is among us! Wow, the corporate God-man living, the reproduction of Christ as the meal-offering church life!