Something that will blow your mind away

Truth is God (1 John 1:5 - "God is light....", 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him [God] ... we lie and are not practicing the truth;")

Christ is the reality (John 14:6; Eph. 4:21).

Third, truth is the Spirit, who is Christ transfigured (1 Cor. 15:45b; 2 Cor. 3:17), the reality of Christ (John 14:16-17; 15:26) and of the divine revelation (John 16:13-15). Hence, the Spirit is the reality (1 John 5:6).

So, truth, reality, is God, Christ, and the Spirit ... the Triune God Himself

Truth is also the Word of God as the divine revelation, which not only reveals but also conveys the reality of God and Christ and of all the divine and spiritual things. Hence, the Word of God also is reality (John 17:17).

The Word is the explanation of the Triune God. This means that the fourth aspect of what the truth is, the Word, is actually the explanation of the first three aspects of the truth, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. Therefore, reality is God the Father, God the Son, God the Spirit, and also the divine Word.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 26 2012, 09:00 PM

Hmm .. is this one of those predestination versus free will thingy?

How about both are right

Now, if you consider that both predestination and free will are both facts because of the twofoldness of the truth, then, you can only

For example:

The argument to whether God hardened Pharaoh’s heart or Pharaoh hardened his own heart. Regarding the hardening of Pharaoh’s heart, Moses uses various expressions. In Exodus 4:21 God says, “I will harden his heart.” However, in 8:15 Moses says that Pharaoh “hardened his heart.” Furthermore, in 9:7 we are told that “the heart of Pharaoh was hardened,” and in 9:35 that “the heart of Pharaoh was hard.” On the one hand, 10:1 says that the Lord “hardened his heart,” but, on the other hand, in 10:20 we see that the Lord “made Pharaoh’s heart hard” (Heb.).

The Bible says clearly both that God hardened Pharaoh’s heart and that Pharaoh hardened his heart himself.

In Romans 9:16 Paul says, “So then, it is not of the one who wills, nor of the one who runs, but of God, the One who shows mercy.” To be a vessel of mercy and of honor unto glory does not depend on our willing or our running, but on God’s mercy to us. It is of God’s sovereign mercy that we are vessels of mercy. We were not the ones who decided to become vessels of mercy. God made this decision before we were born. Only because of God’s sovereignty are we able to say that we are vessels of mercy. In ourselves and of ourselves we have no right to say this. As the One with authority over the clay, the Potter has chosen to make us vessels of mercy.

BUT, in the universe there are three things that cannot be denied: God’s sovereignty, God’s mercy, and man’s free will. God’s sovereignty and mercy are both divine and eternal, without beginning or ending. Man’s free will, on the contrary, is something created by God. In creating man with a free will, God displayed His greatness. Because He is great, He does not force us to choose Him. Rather, He leaves us free to make our own choice.

Did God firstly harden Pharaoh’s heart, or did Pharaoh take the first step to harden his own heart? As a help in answering this question, consider your experience in believing in the Lord Jesus. Was this initiated by you or by God? Surely it was initiated by God. However, you did the believing. Before I was saved, I had no thought of God. My believing in Christ was neither planned nor initiated by me. I have the full assurance that the source of this was God Himself. He planned it, initiated it, and scheduled it. Before I was saved, I was not willing to believe in Christ. However, one day I spontaneously became willing. According to my experience and yours as well, God took the first step to cause us to believe in Christ.

In the same principle, God took the first step in the hardening of Pharaoh’s heart. Before Moses had his first confrontation with Pharaoh, God told him that He would harden Pharaoh’s heart (4:21). However, in the case of our salvation, God initiated our believing in the Lord Jesus, but He did not execute it by believing for us. God planned that we should believe, but we ourselves had to believe. Likewise, God firstly hardened Pharaoh’s heart, then Pharaoh carried out this hardening through his own free will.

Here we see God’s sovereignty and man’s free will. Instead of being contradictory, these two correspond. Pharaoh could not escape responsibility in this matter and place it all on God. He had his own free will.

On the one hand, we must worship God for His sovereignty, but, on the other hand, we must fulfill our responsibility. God’s sovereignty does not contradict our free will, and our free will does not contradict His sovereignty. If we see this, we shall humble ourselves under God’s sovereignty and spontaneously take up our responsibility. We shall say, “Lord, everything is according to Your sovereignty. Nevertheless, I must carry out my responsibility.” The more we are willing to bear our responsibility, the stronger is the sign that we have been predestinated by God.

The Bible firstly says that God hardened Pharaoh’s heart. But the Bible also says that Pharaoh hardened his heart. This shows both God’s sovereignty and man’s free will. We must always humble ourselves and say, “Lord, You are sovereign. But I must still carry out my responsibility.” This attitude indicates that we are favored by God. Suppose, however, that we have the attitude that because everything is according to God’s sovereignty, we are not responsible to do anything. This is a sign that we have denied God. Pharaoh could not absolve himself of responsibility, and Moses could not boast of his deeds. In this way, God shut every mouth. Moses had no room to boast. Neither did Pharaoh have an excuse not to bear responsibility.

God’s sovereignty and our responsibility are both involved in our spiritual seeking. All proper spiritual seeking is planned and scheduled by God. But we are still responsible to seek the Lord. When we seek Him, we should not be proud. Rather, we should humble ourselves and confess that our seeking of the Lord is according to His sovereignty. At the same time, we fulfill our responsibility. If we are indifferent toward the Lord, we are in danger of not fulfilling our responsibility. But if we are zealous in pursuing the Lord, we must be careful not to boast of our spiritual seeking. Once again we see that we need to humble ourselves under God’s sovereignty and, at the same time, carry out our responsibility. If we are conscious of God’s sovereignty and our responsibility, we are truly favored by God.

There is a difference between hardening the heart and the heart becoming hard. In Exodus we are told both that Pharaoh hardened his heart and that his heart became hard. This indicates that Pharaoh firstly hardened his heart. The result was that his heart became hard. Hence, the heart being hard was the consequence of the hardening of the heart. Before Pharaoh hardened his heart, it was still possible for his heart to be softened. But instead of softening his heart, Pharaoh hardened it. The same is true today. Before a person hardens his heart, his heart is not hard. To some extent at least, it is soft. But once he decides to harden his heart, his heart becomes hard.

We can learn an important lesson from this: Never allow anything negative to develop toward the Lord. Before this negative thing arises, you still have two choices—to be for God or to be against Him. But once something negative comes forth and your heart is hardened, you will have only one choice, and that is to reject God.

From the way Pharaoh dealt with his heart we can see how God dealt with Pharaoh’s heart. Firstly, God hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and then He made his heart hard. After God had hardened Pharaoh’s heart, He could have softened it. However, He did not do so. Instead, He kept Pharaoh’s heart in a hardened condition. This means that God made Pharaoh’s heart hard. In the beginning, God hardened Pharaoh’s heart; then He made Pharaoh’s heart hard. In other words, God did not intervene to change what He had done to Pharaoh’s heart.

If we allow something negative to develop toward the Lord, there will be a serious issue. God may not change this result. Rather, He may allow it to continue, just as He did not show mercy to Pharaoh, but let him stand by himself in order to show forth His power in him (Rom. 9:17). Once you harden your heart, your heart will become hard and remain hard. This is on your side. On God’s side, He firstly hardens your heart and then He may refuse to change what He has done. Firstly, He hardens the heart and then He keeps it hard. This warns us to take heed lest any negative thing arise within us. Once this negative thing produces a particular result, that result will remain. It may be that not even God Himself will change it. He may allow it to remain as it is.

I believe Moses used various expressions to describe the hardening of Pharaoh’s heart so that we might learn to humble ourselves before God’s sovereignty, to take up our responsibility, and to guard ourselves from allowing negative things to develop toward God. Once these things develop, it is very difficult to change the result they cause. Instead, the condition remains and may even worsen. Let us learn from the example of Pharaoh. He allowed something evil to begin, and the result remained permanently.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 31 2012, 02:27 PM

I know it is a cliched or overused element in story telling .... it seem that when anyone turn away from God, i.e. it is not turn away from something separate from you.

You are turning from a Source of all positive things, elements, virtues, attributes, etc that is personified in God. Once you reject all that is of God, what is left .... lack of a better word .... turn you into a direct opposite .... there is no turn back ... I guess this is my speculation

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 31 2012, 05:20 PM

Some helpful points that help me:

1) The crucial key in understanding is set forth in Revelation 1:1, which says, “The revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave to Him to show to His slaves
the things that must quickly take place; and He made it known by signs, sending it by His angel to His slave John.” This verse informs us that the revelation of Jesus Christ is made known by signs.

2) One quote I like: "[W]hat we have before us is the Revelation of Jesus Christ. It is not the revelation of things to come, though it has to do largely therewith. It is not the revelation of the four horsemen, nor of the woman clothed with the sun, nor of the ten horned beast, nor of the scarlet woman, nor of the fall of Babylon, nor of the New Jerusalem, but—of JESUS CHRIST[U]. Therefore we should ever be on the alert to observe how, and in what various connections, Christ is revealed in the different divisions of the Prophecy. For Christ is central in every part of the Book, and every group of symbols derives its significance from Him."

...

This post has been edited by pehkay: Nov 1 2012, 09:31 AM

Morning brothers!

... quite active today

The Problem of Spiritual Knowledge without Experience

All spiritual experiences begin with a certain amount of knowledge, but once we have the knowledge of spiritual experiences, it is easy to consider that we have the experiences themselves. This is especially true for young believers. To have knowledge is one thing, but to have the experiences of life is another. If we hear a person testify with spiritual knowledge, we may think that he has the experiences of the Christian life, the church life, and the Spirit. In the first stage of the Christian life, however, what we mainly have is knowledge. Our knowledge needs to be tested by failures, trials, temptations, and many troubles. The more knowledge the Lord affords us, the more He will put us on the test.

In just one year, a believer can gain much spiritual knowledge. Then he may think that he has everything. He may believe himself to be the most wonderful, advanced, and spiritual believer. What he has, however, may be ninety-five percent knowledge in his intelligence, not experience. According to knowledge, he may seem to have been in the Lord for many years, but in actuality he has little real experience. When the Lord puts such a one on the test, he finds that what he has is nearly all knowledge.

There are many different ways the Lord puts us on the test. One is that at a certain point He withholds His hand from us and lets us fail. After we are saved, the Lord’s hand sustains us, but at a certain point He will withdraw His hand. He will leave us to ourselves, and we will be sure to have a failure. That seems terrible, but in actuality it is not. The Lord is very wise. In this way we see that what we thought we had was not real.

Another way the Lord puts us on the test is to give us trials. The number of ways that the Lord has to give us trials is inexhaustible, including physical matters, family matters, and many others. Moreover, trials often do not come by themselves; one trial follows another. The Lord gives us many trials to test us. Then we are in the “fire” to be “burned,” and in this burning we come to know how much of what we have is merely knowledge in our mentality, and how much is real experience. Then we discover that we have little real experience, perhaps only five percent or even one percent of what we thought we had. Little by little we find that the greater part of what we have is merely knowledge in our mind.

We should be advised and warned to be in fear and trembling and to have no trust in ourselves. If we have any trust in ourselves, it is easy to be tempted. This temptation is another kind of test. Temptation comes to us when we have some trust in ourselves. Because our heart is deceitful, the trust we have in ourselves is often in secret. Sometimes we do not even admit it to ourselves. The only way for the Lord to prove that we have a secret trust in ourselves is to allow temptation to test us. When we are tempted, we realize that we have self-trust and self-confidence. These temptations prove to us that we are not competent, that we are not good enough to trust ourselves, and that we are not good enough to meet the situations. Whenever this kind of temptation comes, we always fail. Even if we try our best, we simply cannot make it because the Lord’s hand is withheld from us in order to allow us to meet the situation alone and prove that we are not competent for anything.

By all these tests we will realize how little we have and that what we mostly have is knowledge in the mind. Then something real will come out of this burning, and we will begin another stage. We will be equipped and further nourished with spiritual knowledge. We will know things in a deeper, fuller way. Then even though we have learned the lesson of the first stage that knowledge is not real experience, we will once again consider that we have much and have become rich. We will once again enter into a dream that we are spiritual and have acquired much. Then in the same principle, the Lord will put us on the test again. This is the process of the Christian experience.

The process of Christian experience can be compared to a potter with his clay. First, the potter paints a design on the clay, making it look beautiful. After being painted, however, the clay must be put into the fire to be burned. The Lord as the Potter always paints us first and then puts us through the fire to be burned. Day after day He operates according to the same principle in order to work something of Himself into us, first by spiritual knowledge and revelation and second by testing. This is the reason that many of the Lord’s children, after hearing a message and gaining some knowledge and revelation, are put into testing. The more we are clear about this process, the more we will be saved from troubles. This will humble us.

LOL, you should have answered, "There shouldn't be lor"

Get her to read better ones Try http://www.emanna.com/samples.htm

This post has been edited by pehkay: Nov 21 2012, 06:05 PM

Wonderful ... how much more we need the Lord as grace and wisdom !

This post has been edited by pehkay: Nov 21 2012, 08:33 PM

Not being offensive ... do they really read John 17? At least the first 2 verses

Maybe I can start with this:

Matthew 18:21 says, "Then Peter came and said to Him, Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?" It is to our advantage that Peter asked this question. Although his spirit was wrong, his question helps us to clarify the matter of forgiveness. The Lord seemed to be saying, "You have asked how many times you should forgive a brother who has sinned against you. You should have asked instead how many times you should be forgiven when you sin against God." If God said, "I will forgive you seven times," this would be a very low standard indeed.

When we sin against God, His feeling is hurt. Yet our feeling is not that strong. When others sin against us, our feelings are hurt, and it is hard for us to let it go. Yet God is love, and love does not seek for its own gain. Although God is hurt, His forgiving grace is unlimited. Peter's question shows that he was seeking for his own gain. He suffered because he was hurt. The price he had to pay for forgiving others was himself, that is, the suffering of being hurt. This is the reason he asked the Lord, "How often shall others sin against me and I forgive them? Up to seven times?" Peter said this to show that he was quite magnanimous. Two or three times would have been enough to him, but he made it seven times. There was, however, something wrong with his basic premise. He thought God's grace is limited. The fact is that God's grace has no bounds; it is unlimited. It follows that the forgiveness which God's children practice should also be unlimited.

In Luke 17:3-4 the Lord said to the disciples, "If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. And if he sins against you seven times in a day and turns again to you seven times, saying, I repent, you shall forgive him." After the Lord spoke, the disciples followed with a prayer asking the Lord to increase their faith. They found it hard to believe in the Lord's word. They felt that it was hard to believe that a brother could sin against another seven times a day and then repent seven times. They thought that it was inconceivable that such a one could be forgiven. Hence, they said, "Increase our faith." Under such circumstances, God's children should still forgive. Whether or not those who ask for forgiveness are genuine is not our concern. As long as a man asks for forgiveness, we should forgive him. Matthew says that we should forgive our brothers not only seven times, but seventy times seven times. Luke says that if a brother sins against us seven times a day and then repents, we have to forgive him irrespective of his motive. Whether or not his repentance is genuine, we have to forgive him. As long as he comes to us, we have to forgive him. In Matthew, Peter's conversation omitted the words "in a day" and somewhat changed the meaning. Luke speaks of the same incident related to the same person, but he speaks of a man sinning seven times in a day, repenting, and then being forgiven. Peter changed the same story around. He asked the Lord if it was enough to forgive seven times. By framing the question this way, he made love, grace, and forgiveness all qualities that are limited in nature. In Luke 17 the Lord indicates that love, grace, and forgiveness are all unlimited in nature. Peter's question in Matthew 18 made love, grace, and forgiveness all limited in nature.

The Lord Jesus realized that Peter had changed the wording of the question. His answer about forgiving one's brother revealed that this was not a matter of sufficiency. It was not a question of seven times, but of seventy times seven. God's love, grace, and forgiveness are unlimited. Humanly speaking, thirty-five times of forgiveness would stretch a person to his limit. Seventy times seven is something beyond the reach of human power. It is too heavy a burden. This shows us that the power to forgive is something beyond man. At the same time, those who receive forgiveness are not receiving it from man. They receive forgiveness from another power. Matthew 18:22 says, "Jesus said to him, I do not say to you, Up to seven times, but, Up to seventy times seven." The Lord indictes that forgiveness has nothing to do with the number of times one forgives. If anyone wants a number, let it be seventy times seven.

Cheers!

Definitely not . It should be under the Lord's light or His Person. What does the Lord say on this matter? Did you go through the Lord? We are those not living according to our heart, which is, corrupt and full of the self. Our heart should be open to the Lord to shine over our being, opinion, feelings and motives.

If you are asking this, you are already know what your conscience is telling you. Suppose a certain brother offends you, and you forgive him. Your forgiving of him will annul his offending of you. Then there will be no problem between you.

But then, is this friend, an unbeliever or a brother?

In principle (situation may varies - if he/she is a brother in the Lord), the Lord Jesus did not speak in a light way. What does it mean to forgive? To forgive is to forget. If you cannot forget, it means that you have never forgiven.

This is one testimony that I have read:

Once a brother came to me saying, "Brother, let me tell you what a certain person did to me..He really offended me, but I forgave him." Immediately I told this brother, "Your forgiveness is quite different from the forgiveness in the Bible. The Bible says that to forgive is to forget. You say that you have forgiven your brother, but you remember everything well enough to repeat it to me. This means that you have not forgiven your brother because you have not forgotten the offense." When God forgives us, He forgets. Although God is omniscient and omnipotent, He is able to forget. He simply cannot recall our failures and transgressions. Once He forgives them, He forgets them.

Perhaps happy have to close this thread? And someone create V6?

Greeting Bro!! Welcome

THE OUTWARD MANIFESTATION AND THE INWARD PRINCIPLE OF GOD’S WORK

In this universe and in every age God works according to His intention. God’s work seems to be different outwardly in every age; actually, it is absolutely the same in principle inwardly. The Old Testament age and the New Testament age are absolutely different, and God’s work in the two ages is different. However, intrinsically God is the same God in both ages. This may be likened to the fact that the clothes I wore yesterday and the clothes I am wearing today are different, yet I, who wear the clothes, am the same. In every age God is the same God, and the work He does in every age is for the same goal, although the way His works are manifested outwardly is different. Hence, as those who pursue God walk on His way, they should not pay too much attention to the outward manifestation of His work; rather, they should focus on knowing God’s way and God Himself inwardly. It is difficult to say what God’s way of working in every age is, and it is even more difficult to say what the outward manifestation of His work in man and through man is. These matters are entirely controlled by God’s hand and cannot be determined by man.

For example, in the four hundred years that have passed since the Reformation carried out by Martin Luther, God has passed through many people. Surprisingly, however, those whom God has passed through and worked on have had different outward manifestations. There was one kind of manifestation with George Müller, another kind with D. L. Moody, and yet another kind with Charles Spurgeon. Not only have the outward manifestations of God’s work in every person been different, but the outward manifestations of His work in every age also have been different. Therefore, we should not insist that we must do a certain thing in order to touch God’s desire.

The unique work that God has been doing throughout the ages is to work Himself into man. God desires to make man a God-man, one who is God yet man. A God-man is one who has God within him, one who has the element of God. This may be likened to a cup of water becoming a cup of tea-water after the addition of the element of tea. We were originally only human, but today God has been added into us. God has not only been added into us, but He is also mingled with us. This mingling reaches the point where we become God-men, but we do not share the Godhead.

God’s work throughout the ages has been only to work Himself into man. This is the work He did in Job, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the Old Testament prophets. Throughout the ages God did not do another work in these persons. If we read the book of Daniel without seeing Daniel’s character, it will be difficult for us to understand the content of the book. If we do not know the characters of Isaiah and Jeremiah, it will be difficult to understand the contents of the books they wrote. Every book written by the prophets in the Old Testament can be compared to a famous person’s biography. If we cannot see the prophet’s character, we will not be able to sense the flavor of God produced by the work that God did in that prophet or understand the portion of the Scriptures that he wrote. This is the secret. Therefore, not only the New Testament reveals that we are in Christ, but even the Old Testament reveals the same principle. The one thing that God has been doing throughout the ages is to work Himself into man. This is God’s goal.