??? Not sure what you meant ..

I will like to add a little ... yes ... the wording .. or the truth is multi-faceted. Staying on just one aspect will get a lot of us in trouble

After we receive the new life, we should realize that the righteousness of the law can be ours without trying to keep the law. Romans 8:4 says, "That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit." Since we have received life in the spirit, we do not need to gain the righteousness of the law through keeping the law. "Do not covet"—this is a law. But not coveting is a righteousness of the law. The Judaizers say, "Do not covet," yet they cannot free themselves from covetousness. They say, "Keep the law," yet they cannot keep it (Rom. 3:20). They do not have any righteousness. We can be free from covetousness through the righteousness that comes from the life of Christ. We can gain the righteousness of the law without keeping the law. This is the gospel.

A Christian does not covet because he is walking according to the Spirit, not because there is the law forbidding covetousness. When he walks according to the Spirit, he fulfills the righteous requirement of the law. This is the true gospel. The law is not an end in itself. The end of the law is righteousness. God brings us to righteousness through another avenue; we do not gain righteousness through keeping the law. Keeping the law is useless, both before and after salvation. When we were saved, we were justified, not through the law, but through crucifixion with the Lord. We were saved by the righteousness of God. Having begun by the Spirit, we should continue with the Spirit. The Spirit accomplishes the righteousness within us.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 17 2012, 01:19 PM

You know .... you guys are really reading past each other .....

IMO, both are you are saying the same thing ......... or did I read it wrong?

It just the wording you guys used but the principle of what you are conveying is the same

But what Piros said ... contradicts what you state on the last few days

Piros:

When you keep the 10 commandments perfectly, you are as the angel and Christ, sinless. But human can't keep the commandments perfectly due to original sin which makes us incline to sinning. Which is what God is saying in Romans 3:10-18.

So if any human can keep the laws perfectly, He will not be judge because He obeyed and kept God's precepts. However no human can do that. Even the rich young man when he says I kept the commandments since young, but he didn't kept the most important one that is to love the LORD your God with you whole being" as we see his heart was set to riches.

LOL .... I hope you are concurring the entire statement he was saying ...

How about this?

"I am of the former, where the Spirit shall guide me through my conscience and press upon my heart to know if my action/inaction is righteous or not. As such, I no longer need the 10 commandments nor the Law, for the Spirit shall guide me to righteous path by the grace of God."

Amen!

How long have you been a Christian?

Eh? Great!

I was actually asking EternalC

Well ... look at this way... in one aspect of it

He[Jesus] has uplifted the standard of the law in two ways: by complementing the lower laws and by changing the lower laws into higher laws. In this way the morality in the commandments of the law has been uplifted to a higher standard.

He kept all the commandments of the law when He was on earth. Then He went to the cross to die for us. Through His substitutionary death, He fulfilled the law on the negative side. Furthermore, through His substitutionary death, He released His resurrection life into us, and we now have this resurrection life in our spirit. Because we are able to live by this resurrection life, we have the strength, ability, and capacity to have the highest standard of morality. As we walk according to the spirit (Rom. 8:4), we fulfill the righteous requirements of the law, fulfilling even more than the law requires. Therefore, we do not abolish the law; rather, we fulfill it in the highest way.

I don't mind. As long as it is a important truth in the Bible ...


I don't really have much burden on apologetic things outside like creationism versus evolution etc etc.



Cheers man! .... Balik for now

I guess you know the context of Matthew 20. The householder is Christ. The morning here is 6:00 a.m., denoting the earliest part of the church age, when Christ came to call His disciples into the kingdom. The workmen are the disciples, and the vineyard is the kingdom. The agreement referred to in verse 2 denotes the agreement He made in 19:27-29. The denarius is the reward the Lord offered Peter in His agreement with him in 19:28 and 29.

The third hour was 9:00 a.m., denoting the second part of the church age. The word “idle” indicates that whoever does not work in the kingdom of the heavens is standing idle in the world, which is denoted by the market place. The sixth hour, 12:00 noon, denotes the middle part of the church age, and the ninth hour, 3:00 p.m., denotes the fourth part of the church age.

Verses 6 and 7 say, “And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing, and said to them, Why are you standing here all the day idle? They said to him, Because no one has hired us. He said to them, You go also into the vineyard.” The eleventh hour was 5:00 p.m., denoting the fifth part of the church age. Those hired at the eleventh hour said they were standing around idle because no one had hired them. Outside the kingdom of God, no human beings are employed by God. Although the hour was late, the Lord still sent them into the vineyard. Even near the end of the church age, the Lord still calls people to work in His kingdom.

According to verse 8, the householder rewarded the workmen at evening, that is, at 6:00 p.m. This denotes the end of the church age.

Verse 8 says, “And when evening was come, the lord of the vineyard said to his steward, Call the workmen and pay them their wages, beginning from the last to the first.” For the lord to begin from the last to the first was against the natural and commercial concept. It indicates that what is paid to the latest workmen is not according to their work, but according to the gracious wish of the lord of the vineyard.

Much to the surprise of those hired first, the last were the first to receive the reward, although they worked just one hour, not during the heat of the day. Thus, when those hired first saw that the last received a denarius, they expected to receive a great deal more. However, they also received a denarius. Verses 11 and 12 say, “And when they received it, they murmured against the householder, saying, These last have worked one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat.” Those hired first should remember Romans 9:14-15 and 20. There is no unrighteousness with the Lord. He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy. Who are they to reply against the Lord? But Peter’s natural concept, representing that of all believers, was commercial; he did not know the Lord’s gracious wish. Thus, he murmured against the Lord according to legality.

Verse 13 says, “But he answered and said to one of them, Friend, I am not wronging you, did you not agree with me for a denarius?” By “one of them” the Lord was no doubt referring to Peter. The agreement mentioned in this verse was the agreement the Lord made with Peter in 19:27-29. Here the Lord seemed to be saying, “Peter, we signed an agreement. I don’t owe you anything, for I have given you what I promised. However, I’d like to show you that My reward is not a commercial matter, but a matter of grace. Peter, you need to learn the lesson of grace. The reward is a matter of grace according to My desire. Out of grace, I desire to give those hired last the same reward that I promised to give you. What is wrong with this?”

Verse 14 continues, “Take what is yours and go. I desire to give to this last one even as to you,” This was a strong answer to Peter from the Lord, indicating that the Lord had given him what He thought he deserved. But the Lord has the right to give the same thing to the latest workmen according to His own wish, in the principle not of work but of grace. This shattered and corrected Peter’s natural and commercial mind.

Verse 15 says, “Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with what is mine? Or is your eye evil because I am good?” Peter’s concept, in dealing with the Lord in 19:27, was altogether commercial, according to the principle of work, not of grace. In His answer to Peter, the Lord strongly indicated that His reward to His followers is not commercial, but according to His desire and grace. For the disciples to gain the kingdom of the heavens, they need to leave all and follow the Lord. But what He will give them as a reward is more than they deserve. It is not according to the principle of commerce, but according to the Lord’s good pleasure. This is an incentive to His followers.

In verse 16 the Lord concludes this parable: “Thus shall the last be first and the first last.” The last are the latest workmen, and the first are the earliest ones. In working, the earliest ones came first, but in receiving the reward, the last became the first. It is this way that the Lord makes the last first and the first last. Therefore, the reward is not a legal matter, but a matter of grace.

We should not have a commercial mind. Salvation is based upon grace. The Lord Jesus has done everything for us, and there is no need for us to work. The kingdom reward, however, is according to our work, according to the price we pay. If we pay the price, then the Lord will give us a reward. It may seem that the reward is purchased by our work. If we think this, then we are like Peter with a commercial mentality. We need to be reeducated to see that even the reward is based upon grace. The way to receive the reward is not to pay the price, but to enjoy grace.

To be saved is to receive grace, and to gain the reward is to enjoy the grace we have received. When we believed in the Lord, we received grace and were saved. After receiving grace we must learn to enjoy grace. To leave all things behind and follow the Lord is not to pay a price; it is to enjoy the grace we have received. Do not think that you have sacrificed anything. What you sacrifice is just dung; it is vanity of vanities. Everything under the sun is vanity. Your education, position, and future are all vanity. Dung cannot be considered a price.

We all need to give up the commercial mentality.

I believe that we are in the last group of workmen, those hired at five o’clock in the afternoon. But we shall be the first to be rewarded, although we shall not work as long as Peter, James, John, and Paul, who have been working for nearly twenty centuries. They have labored the entire day, bearing the scorching heat. But we have labored for such a short time, at the most a number of years. Perhaps as we are receiving the reward, Peter will say to John, “Look, these people are receiving the reward before us.” But that will be the fulfillment of the Lord’s word that the last shall be the first and the first last. Perhaps John will say to Peter, “Peter, be patient. If these last ones are receiving such a reward, we shall certainly receive much more.” However, Peter and John may be surprised to receive the same reward as those hired last. But the Lord may say to Peter and to all those hired first, “Didn’t I make an agreement with you? Was not My promise satisfactory? Do not complain, but take your reward and go to the throne. Do I not have the right to do things according to My desire? Am I wrong for being good?” One day, we shall receive the same reward as Peter, and we shall receive it first. Peter’s reward will be a denarius, and ours will be the same. This denarius denotes the full enjoyment of the divine life in glory in the manifestation of the kingdom. This will be our reward.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 18 2012, 01:29 PM

There is never a method . Just that you might need to see the higher definition of prayer ...

1) Prayer is not just man contacting God; it is the mutual contact between man and God. If in prayer man does not touch or contact God, and God does not touch or contact man, that prayer is below the proper standard. Every prayer that is up to the standard is one which is a mutual flow and contact between God and man. God and man are just like electric currents flowing into one another. Therefore, the highest and most accurate meaning of prayer is that it is the mutual contact between God and man.

2) A real prayer is also man breathing in God just as he breathes in air. While you are thus breathing in God, spontaneously you are obtaining God, just as when you breathe in air you receive air. Consequently, not only is God obtained by you and becomes your enjoyment, but also your whole being surrenders to God, turns unto God, and is wholly gained by God. The more you pray, the more you will be filled with God, and the more you will surrender yourself to God and be gained by Him.

Never think that prayer is merely asking God for something. For example, you need a house and you ask God to prepare one for you. After praying, you receive a word from the Lord saying that what you have asked shall come to pass unto you. The next day a brother comes and says to you, “Do you need a house? My neighbor has two houses for rent; the location is convenient and the rent is cheap.” So, you immediately thank and praise the Lord, saying, “Hallelujah, the Lord is really the true and living God; He has answered my prayer.” I would not say that this is not prayer, but this is not adequate prayer.

If you have really learned the lesson of prayer, whether you can find a house is actually secondary; the primary thing you should be concerned about is whether you have obtained more of God and whether you have been gained more by God through such a prayer. If the result of a prayer is only the accomplishment of a particular matter, without obtaining God or being obtained by God, then such a prayer is a failure, a miscarriage. The ultimate result of a prayer should be that the intercessor gains more of God and is gained more by God, though the thing which he has asked of God may also be fulfilled.

.....

Much grace.

Hi instantgeneve,

Anything to add from the verses?

Ok ....

Your point?

Well, if you words are referring to what is going on here ... then I will understand

Well you have to provide the context as although the Word is deep, each individual pursues or understand the truth within their aspect of growth.

Yuppie. Of course it takes time for the seed to grow within us . It was a rhetorical question anyway.

Anyway, amen bro.

I just thought you wanted to share something ....