Lol, got to love the "durians"

Ah ya, bro. It is scary lar to judge others. What you judge will also be "judged" to you. You will eventually will be one who also don't admits their mistake

I guess reposting it is better than editing your previous post?

^_- ... this is problem of our mind. The Bible is multi-faceted. Standing on one aspect always causes problems. We are all struggling to understand.

Every truth in the Bible has sides, the twofoldness of the truth.

Robert Govett says it clearly:

Two hedges define the road; from two abutments springs the bridge. Does the bird fly with one wing? No—with two. Cut off one and it must forever keep to the surface. Thus does God try His people. Will they trust Him when He affirms that view of truth which runs counter to their temperaments and intellectual bias? or will they trample on one of His sayings in their zeal for the other? The humble, child-like saint will acknowledge and receive both; for his Father, who cannot err, testifies to each alike.

Again he says,

It must not be forgotten or denied that there are continually exhibited within its [the Bible's] pages truths seemingly opposed to each other. It is the glory of man’s intellect to produce oneness. His aim is to trace different results to one principle, to clear it of ambiguities, to show how, through varied appearances, one law holds. Anything that stands in the way of the completeness of this, he eludes or denies, as something destructive of the glory and of the efficiency of his discovery. But it is not so with God.

"The revealed biblical truth, being twofold according to the principle of the twofoldness of divine truth, embraces both the oneness and the threeness of the Triune God: God is uniquely one, yet He is three-one—the Father, the Son, and the Spirit."

"But are they not contradictory? That cannot be, for they are both parts of the Word of God, and contradictions cannot both be true. Both, then, are to be received whether we can reconcile them or no..."

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 19 2012, 04:02 PM

There are many:

1) salvation by grace alone and reward according to works; your famous one (Cal vs Arm) ... could be solved by this view

The believers’ eternal salvation is absolutely by grace through faith, not by the works of the law, “because out of the works of law no flesh will be justified” (Gal. 2:16). Paul’s word on this matter is emphatic: “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not of yourselves;
it is the gift of God; not of works that no one should boast” (Eph. 2:8-9). This is echoed in 2 Timothy 1:9 and Titus 3:5. In the former reference Paul says that God “has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works but according to His own purpose and grace.” This is reinforced by his declaration in Titus 3:5: “Not out of works in righteousness which we did but according to His mercy He saved us.”

This great truth is balanced by the truth that when believers appear before the Lord at the judgment seat, they will give an account of their works and then receive a reward (either positive or negative) based upon their life in the Lord and their service to Him. “For the Son of Man is to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will repay each man according to His doings” (Matt. 16:27). The Lord Jesus emphasized this in one of His last utterances recorded in the Scriptures: “Behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me to render to each one as his work is” (Rev. 22:12). This reward is specifically related to reigning with Christ in the coming millennial kingdom (2:26-27).

2) God’s complete salvation is both objective according to the righteousness of God and subjective in the life of God. These two aspects are portrayed by the best robe and the fattened calf in Luke 15. The best robe, signifying Christ as our righteousness covering us in the presence of God for our justification, is objective; the fattened calf, signifying Christ processed to be our life supply for our nourishment and growth in the divine life, is subjective. Hence, God’s complete salvation is both objective and subjective.

Paul addresses both in Romans 5:10: “For if we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more we will be saved in His life, having been reconciled.” On the one hand, believers in Christ have been saved eternally according to God’s righteousness objectively; they have been justified by faith and reconciled to God through the death of Christ.

On the other hand, there is “much more,” and this is the need of being saved in Christ’s life. This salvation in life, as a careful study of the book of Romans discloses, includes sanctification, renewing, transformation, conformation, and glorification, all of which are predicated upon subjective experiences of Christ, who is our life (Col. 3:4). In keeping with the principle of the twofoldness of the divine truth, God’s complete salvation is both objective and subjective, both an accomplished fact and an ongoing process.

Many more ...

3) Christ is both at the right hand of God in the heavens and in the believers.
4) Christ is the only begotten Son in the Godhead and the firstborn Son among His many brothers.
5) Triune God
6) Predestination and human freedom

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 19 2012, 08:16 PM

Hi Unknown, Morning.

Well, if you are concerned with the choice of word, negative, then you can pick yours after considering these small portions (A LOT). No wonder, arminianism believers have a lot of ammos to shoot though incorrectly using them to state that salvation is not eternal)

1 Corinthians 3:12-14. “Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.” The believers are God’s farm (1 Cor. 3:9). Whatever we grow that is wood, hay, and stubble will be burned. But if our work abides as gold (Gold symbolizing God's nature), silver (Christ's redemptive work), and precious stones (Spirit's transforming work), we shall receive a reward, a prize. However, if a man’s work is burned, he shall suffer loss, but this does not mean that he will lose his salvation. The following verse says, “If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as through fire” (Gk). This verse is very clear. A saved person may suffer loss, but he will not lose his salvation; he will be “saved as through fire.”

The apostle Paul told us in 1 Corinthians 3 that every man's work will be tested by fire (vv. 13-15).

There are many instances in Matthew, the parable of 10 virgins (maturity in the divine life) and parable of talents (faithfulness). Matthew uses "outer darkness", "gnashing of teeth (regret)" etc. It is possible that we shall fail to receive a reward but instead suffer loss, even though we are saved, because we are lacking in the work which the Lord can approve (1 Cor. 3:15). At the Lord’s coming back the reward will be given to us according to our works (Matt. 16:27; Rev. 22:12; 1 Cor. 4:5). It will be decided by the judgment seat of Christ (2 Cor. 5:10) and enjoyed in the coming kingdom (Matt. 25:21, 23).

(Thinking). I think I see about your point on Christ's redemption work. Yes, I fully agreed Christ's work is complete. It is a spiritual fact. But is this fact applied and experienced by you? Again, truth is objective and subjective. If Christ's redemption (fact accomplished 2000 years) didn't experience by you when you believe, let's say 20 years ago, it is in vain with regards to you. How about daily salvation? How about being saved from murmuring, reasoning, self, flesh, sins, old man, worldliness? Need to apply His salvation to these details in our life

Note: I think God is awesome. Very righteous. I mean ... you have met believers who are genuinely saved ... yes ... yet still lived like unbelievers ..... hoping that death (going to heaven) will solved all things .... no.... this is an illusion!

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 22 2012, 12:00 PM

Lol ... you come back to this again?

There is no harm in a sense. But what is the profit? I have heard of a sister (who took it seriously) who can't sleep and troubled because she struggled her whole Christian to fulfill it. Until one day, another helped her to see Rom 7-8 that she was released.

Also, isn't this taking the the Lord's grace for granted as we rather trust in the law than Him?

1 Pet 5:10: Peter goes on to say, “But the God of all grace, who called you into His eternal glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, will Himself perfect, establish, strengthen, and ground you.” It is the Lord's grace (Himself) that PERFECTS / TRAIN us.

Isn't it a bit scary to neglect this way of perfecting by grace?

OOPS .... this suppose to answer Olga's ... hahahaa

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 22 2012, 02:01 PM

Piros ... will you believe that the Lord Himself is the Sanctifier He is the Only Holy One. The more He is dispensed into us, the more we are sanctified. It is not merely an act of sanctification, but the Sanctifier Himself coming into us to sanctify us ;P

"Both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which cause He is not ashamed to call them brothers” (Heb. 2:11).

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 22 2012, 02:07 PM

Sanctification means to be separated unto something. It means to be separated out and to belong to someone else. This is the biblical meaning of sanctification.

EDIT: Maybe that doesn't mean thing than just a definition ... haha ... sorry!!!

Put it this way. Holiness is God’s nature and essence. God’s nature and essence are distinct from everything. Whenever God or godly matters are spoken of in the Bible, they are referred to as being holy.

An object that is not consecrated to God or that does not belong to God is not holy; once it is consecrated to God and belongs to God, however, it is holy and separated. For example, a bullock or a goat is not holy, but it becomes sanctified once it is laid on the altar because the altar separates it unto God (Matt. 23:19). Gold is not holy, but it becomes sanctified once it is put in the temple because the temple separates it unto God (v. 17). Food is not holy, yet it is sanctified by the prayer of the saints because the prayer separates it for the saints of God. Animals, gold, and food are in the world, belong to the world, and are for the world; hence, they are common rather than holy. The altar sets apart some bulls and goats, the temple sets apart some gold, and the prayers of the saints set apart some food. These things become sanctified and holy because they have been separated unto God to be directly or indirectly for God.

Sanctifying these objects does not make them sinless; it separates them unto God. Do bulls and goats, gold, and food sin? Do they need to be delivered from sin? Their problem is not related to sin but to the world. Although they are not evil, they are common. They are of the world and for the world; they do not belong to God and are not for God. They are common and ordinary; they are not separated or consecrated to God to be holy. Therefore, they need to be sanctified; they need the experience of being separated unto God and being for God. Thus, to be sanctified is to be separated not only from sin but also from the world and all that is worldly, from all that is not of God and not for God, to be consecrated to God so that the sanctified one may match God’s holy nature and essence.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 22 2012, 02:22 PM

You guys are so funny

Or, you misunderstand what I meant by profit. I meant what is the profit to the fulfillment of God's eternal purpose and the growth of the believers in the divine life. Sorry for the left out as I tend to forget my readers' perspective

^^ I though I was answering Olga ... but oh well ...

Though I won't comment on book of James (His mixture of Old and New Testament) but I will say yes, he revealed that to be justified by faith is for receiving the divine life (Rom. 5:18); to be justified by works is through living the divine life. Since the living is the issue of life, to be justified by works is the issue of being justified by faith.

Cheers bro!

Why underline commandment as if you think it is an outward laws? You know that in Matt 22:37, God is telling you to love HIM, the Person

And in 1 John 5:3, you know that commandments are the Lord's speaking (rhema) within you as the anointing ... the context of the 1 John and also in John.

Er ... it would not sufficient just to use just one word, love, through, it is regarding His gaining a Bride for Himself as His satisfaction. And that is no justice to post what is God's purpose in a nutshell (it takes years) .... but here are some points ....

The intention of God's purpose is to dispense Himself into His chosen people, making Himself one with them. The Bible reveals that God dwells within His chosen people and that He desires to make Himself fully one with them.

God's intention in His purpose is also to dispense Christ with all His riches to His believers chosen by God for the constitution of the Body of Christ, the church, to express the processed Triune God (Eph. 3:8-10). This is the central line of the divine revelation.

In us, the Triune God has been working in us since our regeneration and will continue until we are exactly the same as the firstborn Son of God. All of us as God’s chosen ones need to pass through the processes of sanctification, renewing, transformation, and conformation unto the glorification of our entire being. We are in the processed Triune God for Him to work in us to the extent that we are exactly the same as the embodiment of God, the firstborn Son of God, so that we all may become the embodiment of God. The firstborn Son of God is the individual embodiment of God; we as the many sons of God are the corporate embodiment of God. The reality of this embodiment is the all-inclusive Spirit. When this embodiment is expressed and enlarged, it is the Body of Christ.

Also, the intention of God's economy is to head up all things in Christ (Eph. 1:10). Today the entire universe is a mess, but when the new heaven and new earth come, everything will be headed up in Christ under His headship. In the church, Christ is heading us up so that eventually all things can be headed up in Christ in the new heaven and new earth. This is the church as the kingdom of God on this earth today.

Ultimately, the Body of Christ consummates in the New Jerusalem. In other words, eventually, the Body of Christ becomes the New Jerusalem. The New Jerusalem is the conclusion of all these matters. We see that all the visions and all the revelations are consummated and manifested in the New Jerusalem. This New Jerusalem is a composition of all the regenerated saints of both the Old Testament and the New Testament dispensations built together with God as God’s eternal building, will also be the mingling of all the redeemed, regenerated, transformed, and glorified tripartite men with the processed, consummated Triune God. In the incarnation, crucifixion, and resurrection, the Triune God has been processed and consummated to be one with men, His chosen people. And through the generations in God’s dispensations, the tripartite men have been redeemed, regenerated, transformed, and glorified to be one with the Triune God, who has chosen them in eternity past to be His counterpart, dwelling place, and expression in eternity future.



This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 22 2012, 04:15 PM

Divine romance at its finest

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 22 2012, 05:12 PM

Yup yup. Solomon typified Christ. We are the country girl being courted by Him.

The entire Bible is a romance, a love story, of God "falling in love" with man.

Solomon, in the masculine gender, means "peace," and Shulammite is Solomon in the feminine gender. One is the king in the palace at the capital in Jerusalem, and the other is a girl from the countryside.

I was helped with these crystals from SS which helped me with my understanding ...

1) Attracted by Christ’s love, charmed by His name, and captivated by His person to pursue Him and be led into the church life (1:2—2:7).

2) Called to remain in the cross that she may be freed from her introspective self for the fulfilling of her Beloved's purpose concerning her in the divine life (S. S. 2:8—3:5).

3) Called to live in ascension and even within the veil to experience the stronger cross that she may be one with God in her spirit even before rapture (3:6—5:1).

4) Conformed, ultimately, to be the wonderful Shulammite, who, as the duplication of Solomon, is the greatest and ultimate figure of the New Jerusalem as the counterpart of Christ (5:2—6:13).

Hope it will help you too.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 22 2012, 06:07 PM

Amen. In Revelation 5 one of the elders introduced Christ as the Lion of the tribe of Judah, but when John turned to see Him, he saw a Lamb (vv. 5-6). To the enemy, He is the Lion; to us, the redeemed ones, a Lamb

Oh here are more wonderful quotes for the divine romance

Jeremiah 31:3 the Lord says, “Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.” When God appeared to His people, He “dated” them and later even courted them.

According to Ezekiel 16, God loved Israel when He saw her in the wilderness. Verse 8 describes this love: “Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord God, and thou becamest mine.” By entering into a covenant with Israel, God betrothed her to Himself.

Jeremiah 2:2 also speaks of this covenant, this engagement: “I remember thee, the kindness of thy youth, the love of thy betrothals, how thou followedst after me in the wilderness, in a land that was not sown” (Heb.).

Well .... I guess if you all ever ask on what is the difference between

a promise ? an oath ? a covenant ? and a testament ?

A promise is an ordinary word spoken by God promising you that He will do something for you.

An oath is a confirmation of an ordinary word. God confirmed His ordinary word of promise by means of His oath (Heb 6:13, 17).

When the promise has been confirmed by an oath, it immediately becomes a covenant. What we have received from God is not just an ordinary word as a promise but a covenant, a contract, confirmed by God's oath and sealed with His divine being.

A covenant always binds people more than a promise does. There are many promises or bequests in the new covenant. There is one new covenant, but in these covenant there are many bequests and facts bequeathed to use.

The One who made the covenant died so that the covenant might become a bequeathed will, that is, a testament. Now the covenant is no longer merely a covenant but a testament bequeathed by the One who enacted the covenant.

What we have today is not a promise or even merely a covenant, but a testament, a will, which is an advanced covenant. An advanced covenant is one that is bequeathed with the accomplished facts, which are the fulfilled promises. When the promise has been fulfilled, it becomes the covenant, and when the covenant has been bequeathed, it becomes the testament. In the promise we have the promised matters, in the covenant we have the accomplished facts, and in the testament we have the accomplished facts bequeathed as bequests.

Hope it help someone ...

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 24 2012, 10:53 AM

Bro, kinda itchy or more curious ah to know about Satan (poking) ... Mostly the references are from Ezekiel 28 ... some Bible scholars do not agreed that this portion of the Scripture refers to Satan's origin ... but I disagree based on books I read

Satan was an angel created by God before He created the earth. The book of Job (38:4-7) tells us that when God laid the measure of the foundation of the earth, the sons of God (the angels) shouted for joy. This proves that God created the angels before He created the earth.

From Ezekiel 28 we see that Satan was not only one of the angels, but the highest archangel, the head of all the angels.

Ezekiel 28 describes Satan's position in the universe before his rebellion and corruption. This whole chapter seems to speak about the king of Tyre. But verse 13 says, "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God." If we read the context, we can see that this was not the Eden in which Adam was put. This Eden was not on the earth, but in the heavens, on the holy mountain of God.

"Every precious stone was thy covering." He was covered with precious stones. G. H. Pember says that this indicates his dwelling place. His dwelling was of precious stones.

"The service of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared with thee in the day thou wast created" (Heb.). In the ancient times, musical instruments such as tambourines and pipes were for kings (Dan. 3:5; 6:18). This indicates that Satan was a king, holding the highest position in that universe. This was why even the Lord Jesus called him "the ruler of this world" (John 12:31). The Apostle also calls him "the ruler of the authority of the air" (Eph. 2:2). Luke 4:5-6 also confirms this. "And he led Him up and showed Him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in a moment of time. And the Devil said to Him, To You I will give all this authority and their glory, because to me it has been delivered, and to whomever I want I give it." Was this a lie? If it was a lie the Lord Jesus surely would have rebuked Satan. Since the Lord did not rebuke him, it must be a fact.

Satan, the Devil, told the Lord that all the kingdoms of the world and all their glory had been delivered to him. Satan also said, "to whomever I want I give it." When did God deliver all of this to Satan? This was definitely something pre-Adamic, before the world of Adam. We can realize that God did appoint Satan the head of that universe, and that God had delivered all created things in the heaven and on the earth into his hand. So he became "the ruler of this world." His position and rank were so high that even "Michael the archangel..did not dare to bring a reviling judgment against him" (Jude 9). Michael is one of the archangels (Dan. 10:13). His daring not to rebuke Satan proves that Satan's rank must be even higher than his. Thus, we can infer that Satan must be the highest archangel.

Verse 14: "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth." Satan was "the anointed cherub that covereth." This probably means that he covered (cf. Exo. 25:20) the ark of God in the heavens (Rev. 11:19). "And I have set thee so." God did this. God anointed and appointed the archangel to cover His ark. Ezekiel tells us that the cherubim bear God's glory (9:3; 10:18) and that they are very close to God's throne (10:1; 1:26). This shows that Satan, before his rebellion, when he was the anointed cherub covering God's ark, must have been very close to God, bearing God's glory. Ezekiel also tells us that the cherubim are the four living creatures which are of special use to God (10:20). Also the four living creatures in Ezekiel are similar to the four in Revelation (Ezek. 1:10, cf. Rev. 4:7) which took the lead among the creatures in worshipping God. This reveals that today's Satan, God's adversary, originally the anointed cherub, must have been specially appointed by God to be the head among His creatures, bearing His glory and leading them to worship Him. This may indicate that the anointed archangel also had the priesthood. He might have been the high priest in the universal worship of God.

"Thou wast upon the holy mountain of God." This certainly must be in the heavens. "Thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire." In Exodus 24:10, 17, Moses, Aaron, and many others saw under God's throne some precious stones with the glory of God like burning fire. That must be the stones of fire. From this we may infer that the anointed cherub was also specially privileged to move in the realm where God's glory was.

Beside Ezekiel 28, Isaiah 14:12 also helps us to see Satan's origin. It tells us that Satan was the "Daystar [for Lucifer according to Hebrew], son of the morning." Just as the daystar is the leading one among the stars, so Satan must be the head of all the angels. The title "son of the morning" shows that he was there early, in the morning of the universe. Thus, Satan, from the earliest days of the universe, was the head of the angels, bright as the daystar.

Satan's origin was wonderful. He was God's anointed cherub, the one closest to God, holding the highest position in God's creation. He had not only the kingship, but also the priesthood, the very position that we, God's redeemed people, have forever (Rev. 5:9-10; 20:4-6). But he was deprived of his position and offices when he rebelled against God. Now God has chosen us to be His priests and kings, to take over Satan's position and offices, to put him to shame, and to glorify God.

Hope it assist you

Physical voice?