James 2:10 and 11 say, "For whoever keeps the whole law yet stumbles in one point has become guilty of all. For He who said, Do not commit adultery, also said, Do not murder. Now if you do not commit adultery, but you murder, you have become a transgressor of the law."

That will be the one you are looking for ...

If the truth was a yes and no ... but like I mentioned 2 sides. That will be like the Pharisees baiting the Lord ;P

On the one hand, you can't fulfill the law. No one can.

On the other hand, it is the Lord within you living out the uplifted law because what the law testified is the Lord Himself. This is why He came the life-giving Spirit (1 Cor 15:45) and entered into you.

Like what was in the beginning, like the Lord said, it was not so. The goal was to bring us to the living Person Himself, God, ultimately.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 1 2012, 02:07 PM

10->2?

Hi welcome ... this is just a thread on fellowship among Christians Most of the time there are always announcements of events, songs etc ... I was hoping it will be more iof a "cream" of Christian's experiences being shared here for mutual building up.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 1 2012, 06:56 PM

Of course no harm lar to us or the Lord The choice is yours. For us, we are just puzzled with the choice that you made.

I find that the living Person of the Lord is even stricter than the 10 commandments. It's higher, sweeter, and the grace is there. It is the grace of the Lord that is fulfilling the requirements of the laws. In Matthew, the laws were uplifted! So in one sense, you are following the "lower" outward laws. And the grace is not there because only grace and resurrection power is only with the Lord.

I know because I used to try to live in that way. It is frustrating and condemning because you just can't make it.

Nobody is taking God's grace for granted. Even more, we are living in view of the coming kingdom reward ... knowing that we have to be today's overcomers to be rewarded in the coming kingdom.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 2 2012, 02:08 PM

Bro, the standard of the kingdom law in Matthew is that if you are angry with someone, you have already murder him . So we are all murderers even though we are saved.

This is why the salvation is progressing ... the Bible revealed that salvation is not just being initially saved. It is a FULL salvation. Man's soul still needs to be transformed ... for example in his/her temper.

The more we are transformed by His life, the more we are delivered from our temper. The high standard of the new law exposes our INNER BEING ... full of fallen temper ... which in God's eye ... MURDER

Redemption in His grace saves you from hell. That is given. But it won't save you from his coming dispensationational punishment if we do not mature in His salvation.

It is fair and righteous. Redemption is free (grace) but the maturity is not (works) as revealed in Hebrews, Matthew and other places.

EDIT: we are pulling away the "stand" of your discussion that you can lose your salvation .... this is why it won't answer your question or from your POV that we don't get it what you are saying

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 2 2012, 03:29 PM

I even more slowpoke .... what is the movie about?

So if you are not going through hard times, God exists?

Sometimes I don't get the logic

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 2 2012, 05:27 PM

Wow ... it's a cool article. Do anyone of you know that the prophecy of the 4 locusts from Joel, the great human image in Daniel is being fulfilled from Medo Persian's rule after Babylon

Hmm ... I've always have an impression that you guys are more interested in prophecies

Joel 1:2-4
2 Hear this, you elders, And give heed, all you inhabitants of the land. Has this ever happened in your days, Or even in the days of your fathers?
3 Tell your children about it, And let your children tell their children, And let their children tell the next generation.
4 What the cutting locust has left, the swarming locust has eaten; And what the swarming locust has left, the licking locust has eaten; And what the licking locust has left, the consuming locust has eaten.

The four stages of this one kind of locust refers to the nations that devastated Israel in four consecutive empires: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome, including Antichrist, who will be the last Caesar of the Roman Empire. The armies of these empires were like locusts (Joel 2:25) coming to devastate and consume Israel totally, devouring her people, land, fields, produce, food, and drink and cutting off her offerings.

These empires correspond to the 4 sections of the great human image in Daniel 2:31-33, to the 4 beasts in Daniel 7:3-8 and to the 4 hours in Zechariah 1:18-21.

The central thought is 4 things are unveiled: God's chastisement on His elect people, God's punishment of the nations, the manifestation of Christ and the restoration. The Roman Empire, the aggregate of the 4 empires, afforded everything necessary fro the incarnated God to live and move and work on earth.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 3 2012, 01:21 PM

Take a break and don't sit next to a comp

You have the precious blood of the Lamb. ... Apply it in your prayer to the Lord.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 8 2012, 03:45 PM

The intrinsic meaning of "keeping the Sabbath"

For six days God worked in creation. After God had done everything and all things were completed, accomplished, and finished, He kept the Sabbath. Therefore, the Sabbath is the result of God’s work. In this result, that is, on the Sabbath day, God rested.

Exodus 31:17 says, “It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days Jehovah made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.” God not only needs to rest but also to be refreshed. The result of the divine work, which is the Sabbath, was that God could rest and refresh Himself. This result was an enjoyment for God, and God rejoiced in this result.

After we have finished a certain work, we then enjoy it. This is especially true with the those who cook. After they have done everything in their kitchen, they sit down at the table and enjoy what they have done. The table is the “Sabbath” to them. They sit there, enjoy it, and are refreshed. However, after a mother has finished her cooking, she does not go to the table by herself. She goes to the table with her children. The table is not an enjoyment to her alone; it is an enjoyment to her with her children. Without her children she could not rest. Even though the cooking is completed and the whole table is prepared, could a proper mother sit down, eat well, and enjoy rest and refreshment if her children were missing? The table is not for the mother alone but is for her and her children. On the first Sabbath day, after the conclusion of the creation, God did not rest alone. All creation rested with Him, and God especially rested with the man He created.

To God the Sabbath was the seventh day. To man, however, the Sabbath was the first day. Man was the final item of God’s creation and was created on the sixth day, probably toward the end of the sixth day. Therefore, immediately after man had been created, he entered into the Sabbath. All the divine work was done by God. Nothing was done by man. Therefore, the Sabbath is the result of the divine work and is the rest to God with man. Man’s obligation to God is not to work but to enjoy. The obligation of the work has been borne by God already. God’s portion is to work and enjoy, but man’s portion is simply to enjoy.

However, after the enjoyment there is a further work. After Adam had been created by God, he entered into the Sabbath, the first day to him, to rest and to enjoy. But after that day, he began to work, to till the ground (Gen. 2:15). With God, work is first and enjoyment is second. With man, enjoyment is first and work is second. This is the vision of the principle of grace. God did the work and then enjoyed. We enjoy what God has done; then we work.

This principle applies not only to creation but also to redemption. The Lord has accomplished everything for redemption. After the completion of His redemption, the Lord enjoyed the result. The Lord worked first and enjoyed later. We, however, enjoy first and work later. Concerning redemption and grace, we have nothing to do. Everything is finished. We simply enter into the Lord’s accomplishment and have our rest. To receive the gospel is to enter into the work which the Lord has finished. Take it as the Sabbath, as your rest, and enjoy it with the Lord. But after you enjoy it, you have to bear some obligation to work. After our enjoyment, we should offer ourselves to the Lord to do His work.

Yes ... you have misunderstood me

I am not referring that God needs a rest after using His power . That is a very physical understanding e.g. body needs rest. And a rhetorical question for the omnipotent God....

This rest, like I mentioned, it a enjoyment type of rest when you have accomplished or fulfilled something. Or another example, the church is His real rest and satisfaction. God will be fully at rest because His heart’s desire will have been completely satisfied. He will have obtained what He desired to have. This is the real meaning of the Sabbath rest.

Acts 7:49 "Heaven is My throne, and the earth is a footstool for My feet. What kind of house will you build for Me, says the Lord, or what is the place of My rest?

When the Lord Jesus was baptized, God was happy and satisfied, saying, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased” (Matt. 3:17). When God said that He was pleased with His Son, it meant that He was satisfied. At that time, the Lord Jesus was the Sabbath rest to God.

I guess there is the "danger" of information overload as most people tend to when facing a wall of text. Gone are the days, when one can contemplate what was read to know what the writer's context and view ...

The intrinsic meaning of Sabbath - cont.... So that we don't have such a low view of it as just an outward ritual of the law....

THE LOSS OF THE SABBATH REST

When man was damaged by the fall, this rest was lost. We need to consider John chapter five, the case of the enlivening of the impotent man. John 5:9 says, “And immediately the man became well, and picked up his bed and walked. Now it was the Sabbath on that day”. In enlivening the impotent man, the Lord did something which, according to the Jewish regulations, was not permitted on the Sabbath day. As a result, the Jews persecuted the Lord Jesus.

Verse 16 says, “And for this the Jews persecuted Jesus and sought to kill Him, because He did these things on the Sabbath”.

On the Sabbath day, they sought to kill Jesus. Do you believe that anyone who is seeking to kill a person could be at rest? Do you think that all those persecuting Jews had rest in their hearts? I do not believe it.

In verse 17 we see the Lord’s answer to the Jews: “My Father is working until now, and I am working”. The Lord seemed to be saying, “You are keeping the Sabbath, but My Father is working. The Sabbath that He had on the seventh day has been lost because man has been damaged. As long as man has not been recovered, My Father is still working. Look at this poor man. He has been lost, spoiled, ruined, and corrupted by the enemy of God. How can My Father rest? You may rest according to your tradition, but you don’t have the real rest. While you say you keep the Sabbath, you don’t know what the Sabbath really means. You do not have rest, do you? Neither does My Father have rest. So, My Father is still working, and I am working too. This is why I am here. I have come here to do My work. Don’t you know that the Sabbath has been lost, that the Sabbath on which God was satisfied has been lost, destroyed by the enemy of God? Don’t you know that God lost what He had gained? My Father is working until now. Since Genesis 3, My Father has never stopped working because the man who satisfied Him has been damaged.”

How we need to be impressed with the real significance of the Sabbath! The significance of the Sabbath is that God is satisfied with man when man expresses and represents Him. When there is a situation in which man expresses God and represents Him, that day is the Sabbath to God.

...

The intrinsic meaning of Sabbath - cont ...a little bit solid ...

THE GOOD LAND AS THE SABBATH REST

Why was the good land a rest? Did the children of Israel rest in the good land? From the very day they entered into it they were fighting constantly. Then why did God call that land the rest, as He did in Deuteronomy 12:9? Superficially speaking, people say that the good land of Canaan was called the rest because the people made their homes in it and settled there. This thought is rather natural and superficial. The land was a rest because the temple could be built there. There, with the temple, God could have His expression and representation. When God is expressed and represented, there is satisfaction for both God and man, and that is the real rest.

The Sabbath rest in Heb. 4:9, as typified by the good land of Canaan (Deut. 12:9; Heb. 4:8), is Christ as our rest. Christ is rest to us in three stages.

a) In the church age, He, as the heavenly Christ, the One who has expressed, represented, and satisfied God and who rests from His work and sits on the right hand of God in the heavens, is the rest to us in our spirit (Matt. 11:28-29).

b) In the millennial kingdom, after Satan has been removed from the earth (Rev. 20:1-3), God will be expressed, represented, and satisfied by Christ and the overcoming saints. Then Christ with the kingdom will be the rest in a fuller way to the overcoming saints who will be co-kings with Him (Rev. 20:4, 6) and share and enjoy His rest.

c) In the new heaven and new earth, after all the enemies, including death, the last enemy, are subdued to Him (1 Cor. 15:24-27), God will be fully expressed, represented, and satisfied by all His redeemed ones in Christ. At that time Christ, as the all-conquering One, with that glorious situation, will be the rest in the fullest way to all God’s redeemed for eternity.

Thus, the Sabbath rest mentioned in Heb. 4:9 and typified by the rest of the good land of Canaan should only cover the first two stages of Christ as rest to us and should not include the third stage. The rest in the first two stages is a prize to His diligent seekers who are not only redeemed but have also enjoyed Him in a full way so that they have become the overcomers; whereas the rest in the third stage is not a prize but the full portion to all the redeemed ones.

Therefore, Christ as rest to us in the first two stages, especially in the second stage, is the Sabbath rest mentioned here, the rest that remains for us to seek after and enter into diligently. It is in the second stage of Christ as rest to us that Christ will take possession of the whole earth as His inheritance (Psa. 2:8; Heb. 2:5-6) for His kingdom in the millennium (Rev. 11:15). All His overcoming followers, who seek and enjoy Him as their rest in the first stage, will participate in His reign at that time (Rev. 20:4, 6; 2 Tim. 2:12). It is then that they will inherit the earth (Matt. 5:5; Psa. 37:11). Some will have authority over ten cities, some over five (Luke 19:17, 19). It is then that they will also partake of the joy of their Lord (Matt. 25:21, 23). That will be the kingdom rest, which is typified by the rest of entering into the good land of Canaan. The rest of the good land was the goal to all the children of Israel who were redeemed and delivered from Egypt; likewise, the rest of the coming kingdom is the goal to the New Testament believers who have been redeemed and saved from the world. We are all on the way now towards this goal.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 10 2012, 11:14 AM

The intrinsic meaning of sabbath - cont. for Old Testament

A PROPHECY OF THE REMAINING SABBATH REST

In type, this Sabbath rest was the good land. In actuality, however, this rest was not realized by the children of Israel when they entered into the good land. Therefore, the psalmist prophesied of a remaining Sabbath rest for God’s people (Psa. 95:7-11). The book of Hebrews quotes Psalm 95 concerning the rest. What is this Sabbath rest? In principle, it is the situation in which man is gained by God to express and represent Him. This situation did not come into being until the church came into existence.

THE CHURCH LIFE AS GOD’S SABBATH

In a positive and good sense, the proper church life is God’s Sabbath. Now we can understand why the book of Hebrews warns the believers not to miss the Sabbath, telling them to be diligent to enter into it. What is this Sabbath? It is the proper church life. The writer seems to be saying, “O Hebrew believers, don’t go back to keep the old Sabbath, That is past. In the Psalms God prophesied of another day, the remaining Sabbath rest.” If you read chapters three and four of Hebrews carefully, you will find this promise of the remaining Sabbath rest. These two chapters speak of “another day” (Heb. 4:8). This “another day” is “Today” (Heb. 3:7, 13, 15; 4:7). This “another day,” “Today,” is the promised Sabbath rest that remains for us. The writer seemed to be saying, “Hebrew believers, don’t be foolish. The Sabbath rest that God kept in Genesis 2 has been destroyed and will never occur again. In the Psalms, God has assigned another day, ‘Today.’ This is the remaining Sabbath rest for you. You must enter into it.”

What is this Sabbath rest? Firstly, it is the church life. We must enter into the church life so that God may be expressed and represented on earth today, be satisfied, and find rest. When this happens, God and we shall have our Sabbath rest. If we do not get into the proper church life, we shall miss the rest. However, as we shall see, this is not altogether the meaning of the Sabbath rest in Hebrews.

In Matthew 11:28-29 the Lord said, “Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.” Many Christians understand this verse in a very superficial way, thinking that it means they will find comfort whenever they are heavy laden and come to the Lord Jesus. Although this may work for you the first time, it may not work after that. If you just take the Lord as your rest according to your natural, selfish concept, the Lord will eventually turn His face away from you.

Many Christians experienced this kind of comfort at the beginning of their Christian life only to find that it did not work well later on. Why? Because Christ is not our life and rest for our individual enjoyment but for the building up of God’s house. If you want to enjoy Christ as your rest, you must come to Him. But where is He? Where do we go to meet Him? We must come to the church. The rest, which is Christ Himself, is in the church. Why is this rest in the church? Because in the church God is expressed and represented, and where God is expressed and represented, there is the Sabbath. If you do not believe this, try to take your own way and pray to Christ for comfort. If you stay away from the church, you will probably find yourself unable to pray.

Today there is only one good land—the church life. Today’s church is the good land because in the church God has His habitation for His expression and representation. God’s throne, kingdom, and government are in the church. Thus, it is in the church that God is satisfied. If He is not satisfied there, then where is He satisfied? There is only one situation that can satisfy God: a situation in which a group of people has been gained by Him to be His expression and representation. The angels do not have this privilege because they have not been ordained to express and represent God. But we have been destined and ordained to express and represent Him. Therefore, God’s satisfaction and rest are in the church.

Although many Christians are truly saved, they are not in the church life. Likewise, many of the children of Israel were saved at the time of the Passover. They struck the blood, ate the lamb, came out of Egypt, crossed the Red Sea, and were saved. But how many of them came into the rest or good land? Very few. In like manner, although there are so many real Christians, those who have been truly saved, very few are in the church life. Do you believe that all Christians are in the good land? No, many are wandering, and others still remain in Egypt, doing such worldly things. Since they have believed in the Lord Jesus, we cannot say that they have not been saved. However, they are in Egypt or in the wilderness, not in the good land. We need to be diligent to press on to enter into the rest. It is in the church life.

Hello!!

;;; So early ... got mudslinging already ah