errmm.. cant remember which format i was playing on that time.. hehe..
and i din notice the thing u mention about changing to unknown EQ mode.. mayb i dun play much with the EQ thus cant really notice the difference..

Each user have their own unique issue; and that's why C30 is a mystery.

This post has been edited by Agnaem: Apr 26 2011, 01:14 AM

It may not be a bug in the 1st place. BBE is supposedly meant for 'sonic restoration. Maybe whan it comes to uncompressed FLAC files there is 'nothing to restore' and so they do not allow you the liberty of further messing up the sound with more BBE preset choices. It could be the BBE presets are only meant for compressed mp3 files, meant for sonically restoring the more inferior mp3 file format. Then again we do not know at what threshold this sonic restoration is effected and to what degree?.... 96 bit ....128bit .... or even 320bit mp3s'?

This post has been edited by wongpeter: Apr 27 2011, 08:04 PM

Are you trying to say that BBE is not applied when FLAC files are played because there is nothing to restore in the first place?

Edit: I've just tried having BBE turned on my BBE capable device and the effects are present when playing FLAC files.

This post has been edited by MrJinggles: Apr 27 2011, 08:53 PM

that's just an equalization. nothing improved other than changing how it sounds

try listening to crap mp3 with BBE on. now that's what I call major improvement

but I don't like how BBE sounds like

Allowing me to use BBE, but suddenly changing to some other EQ setting every time track changes plus a HUGE increase in volume without any change in the display and yet it is not a bug? What would you call it then?

As for my standpoint on what BBE is, I believe it's more of an equalizer or effects, rather than a restoration of a lossy to lossless. My reason is simply because if BBE supposedly restores a lossy format to more of a lossless, then an mp3 used with BBE should sound more like a FLAC, not more unlike.

allow me to say something on the BBE....as a owner of mostly flac collections i really just ignore the BBE n shut it,because same as some other here,when playing flac it got a LITTLE problem with volume and that annoy me...not to bring up a fight here,im still satisfy with what this little thing can do,but the firmware towards the BBE should be revised....

p/s:for sake of experiment i did try it with lousy mp3 and on BBE,the song changed from lousy to less lousy...that's all...i won't say its lossy to lossless quality,when testing with same song differ format,the quality is just (for me)...i'll stick to lossless,BBE shut is ok for me.

".....suddenly changing to some other EQ setting every time track changes plus a HUGE increase in volume without any change in the display...". You are saying the display does not change but the EQ setting has changed? I take that to mean that you are hearing this change in the sound without any visual indication in the display, am I right? I can't corroborate what you claim simply because it has not happened to me as yet.

Nobody said anything about "restores a lossy format to more of a lossless, then an mp3 used with BBE should sound more like a FLAC". Those are your exact words, nobody elses. Whatever data that is missing when decompression takes place is lost forever. As such I don't see how lossy can become more of a lossless unless you know something that we don't.

The term sonic restoration can mean many things to different people but I wouldn't go so far as saying it can restore a lossy format to more of a lossless one, would you?

Exactly.

Let's look at the this post below.
My text that you quoted may be the only one exactly like that, but beed talked about the same thing, and you agreed.

Yeah, sonic restoration may be of anything, and I find your 'conspiracy theory' on BBE quite interesting. (Techie + musician thing).. Btw, I think I've made it clear that I don't agree BBE makes a lossy more of a lossless.

I qualified my statement about the sound restoration with 'mimicking' the sound of FLACS. I wouldn't go so far as saying it restores a lossy format to more of a lossless one. You can't restore something that is not there in the 1st place. With mp3 decompression there is no way the missing data can be restored so it is not a question of restoring from one format(lossy) to another(lossless). Sonic restoration or in other words, sound restoration, is just that - about the sound, not the format.

"As for my standpoint on what BBE is, I believe it's more of an equalizer or effects, rather than a restoration of a lossy to lossless."
My understanding of equalization is that it boosts or cuts certain frequencies ie you can choose to have how much more or less of low, mid and high frequencies. BBE, for me at least, goes beyond this increase/decrease of amplitude of specific frequencies. There seems to be a spatial element involved in how BBE modifies the sound. A reverb like quality seems present. BBE is more sound manipulation/effects rather than plain equalization.

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Added on April 29, 2011, 7:20 pmI have BBE turned on whilst playing mp3's, when the song changes to FLAC format the BBE is still there (on the display), it is when I try to change to another BBE preset that I find I can't as they are no longer available and I can only choose things like Normal, Rock, Pop etc. The BBE menu seems disabled when playing FLACS.

This post has been edited by wongpeter: Apr 29 2011, 07:20 PM

All this time I've been talking about the sound. Not about the compression/format itself. 'Less of a lossy and more of lossless' is in term of sound. After all the only effect of BBE that I'm able to notice is sound. Sorry I didn't make it clear on that before and just to say it again, it's the song/sound that comes from the formats that's in this discussion, and it has been all along.

mimic means copy. You're saying BBE allows mp3 to mimic FLAC. Literally that means mp3 copies the sound of FLAC. In other words, literally you're saying that BBE does makes mp3 to FLAC; and of course in terms of sound.

On the other hand, I down-tuned the word 'mimic' to an imperfect copy, hence your sentence would mean BBE makes the sound of a lossy file more of a lossless and less of a lossy. In shorter form:
mp3 copy sound of FLAC = mp3 having the same sound as FLAC
mp3 makes an imprefect copy of FLAC = mp3 having the sound somewhat better than regular mp3, but lesser than FLAC.

That concludes what I understand from your sentence.

Anyway, I've been saying, just how does the sound of mp3 + BBE mimics the sound of FLAC, when the same song in mp3 and FLAC sounds very similar to the point that a lot can't distinguish between the two, but BBE turns the song into something else, regardless of the format. Which leads to why I think BBE is just a manipulation in sound via equalizer/effects/anything else exists in the world of sound manipulation. No more, no less. It has nothing to do with mp3 being a lossy compression so BBE can work on it, and FLAC, being a lossless compression hence BBE can't work on it. It's a sound manipulation, thereby can work on both formats.


Your explanation doesn't go against what I said at all. As I used 'equalizer or effects', it can be either, it can be both. Though what I had in mind is something of both.
Anyway, I agree with what you said in this quote.

Btw, the bold part is the only thing I think of BBE. It may be more, but at least I'm in doubt it involves anything of restoring, let alone anything to do with mimicking sound from a lossless format.

Here's a side note. Sound played is from what's encoded in the file. If digitally there's nothing to be restored, hence sonically there's nothing to restore as well, cause that's where the sound comes from. Yet another reason why I don't think BBE is anything of a restoration.


In my case, if BBE is turned on prior to playing a FLAC file, the BBE will still remain on the display, but I know BBE is turned off as soon as the FLAC track plays. In the EQ list, other than regular EQs like Normal, Rock, user, etc only the plain BBE remains, others like VIVA is lost.

Just to confirm, not even a single BBE remains in your EQ list? I'm not talking about the one in Settings -> BBE Setting, but the one when you long press the 'A|B' button.

P/S: My BBE Setting menu is disabled as well when playing FLACs. By that, I mean only USER1-3 and Shutdown BBE remains. I can still use BBE from the EQ list i.e. long pressing 'A|B' button.

This post has been edited by Agnaem: Apr 29 2011, 11:54 PM

so.. is this generally speaking close to gumstick in audio output? which should be better? c30 or gumstick? they just compare so closely i dunno decide on which

I think if you already have an IEM, get the C30.
The Gumstick is good for people who are starting out because it is bundled with a good choice of IEMs.
I have compared both, and I absolutely cannot tell them apart.

indeed they are so close, but in terms of price, haha, Cube c30 wins. =)

just so u know.. Cube now has 3 series the C series(include c30), the P series and the D series

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Added on May 2, 2011, 5:17 pmP series: the P1000 (2GB capacity)
C series: C3, C30, C6, C60
D series: D401 (2GB), D430T (2GB), D430M (2GB), D250+ (2GB/4GB)

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Added on May 2, 2011, 5:21 pmCube headphones:
F1, F3, F5, F6, F10

This post has been edited by noobandroid: May 2 2011, 05:21 PM

wasai, this c30 so hard to get la! oni got 1 rare buyer only, others putus stock d, even Jaben's hippo gumstick need 1 month or two to have =.=!
luckily i za za lam cash in 1 unit 1st luu, if not GG...

I am waiting for mine also...hopefully it come next week

sure will get next week. monday or tuesday u'll receive. custom release already. =)

since im using XRoads woody 2, do i need an external amp lagi? i have a hippo box+ here, cause i see c30 got a class AB internal amp, which should be gud enuff

I would say it doesn't need any external amp, but the box+ may be used if you like it's sound sig. E.g., I at times use C30+E3 with 668B, because I like the extra bass that the E3 gives..