u have to set up more specific rules.
only lens and body allowed for both categories..hehe..

Ok....I'm gonna get my Hasselblad H4D-60 to shoot some CNY photos

Done. Battle of the ringgit posted here http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?act=ST&f...0#entry39716570

haha. well bro, this one has been done over and over so many times already.

it's not like there's lacking of evidence of old cameras being used and pictures are still better than those taken by more expensive gears.

not like you haven't seen the umpteenth time i posted my photos with entry level bodies and entry level lenses. post so often until i sometimes feel bad already. LOL.

actually wut goldie said was right..the more u know about photography, the less u'll get poisoned..im starting to feel that in my vains now..urgh..urgh..

but dunno it's true or not... with beginner gear, it limit your skill...
u can't go advance w/out upgrade...
then during that time money is prob so can afford with expensive gear... so your skill stuck there...

i always see people posting a pics where the skill is so so ajeee...
where can find pics captured with the 'hardest' skill...?
i dunno how to elaborate it but it's difficult to capture it...
eg.
people throw a cake at your face
summer sault in swimming pool
fire burning something
vehicle in the midst of accident

normally i prefer to have a look at a pics with a higher shutter speed (freeze actions). i call it 'hardest' skills bcoz we need to know precise time to capture the action with the correct exposure, shutter, aperture & iso. also this moment can't be re-captured again so u have only 1 shot to proof your skills.

sometime people comment your pics is sharp, exposure is correct, bokeh is cun but all the above can be re-captured if settings are wrong. also your object maybe is static/not moving so u don't have a prob to re-captured a thousand times until satisfied.

hope there's a pro here can share their 'freeze' actions to make it different from others.

my 2 cents word.

beginner gear limit your skill? beginner gear you "level up" even faster because it forces you to THINK -

you have no high ISO to help you, even if you did the noise control sucks.

Auto WB is dodgy.

No Auto ISO so you have to know when to change and how to change it fast.

No lighting optimization for you so you need to take not of highlights and shadows, how to get it right.

No big big nice nice LCD for you to waste time there.

Slow shutter speed, so train you to time your shots.

Lowest available AFing technology, so you have to do what you can to get the shot right.

No wide / constant aperture lens with IS, so you have to learn how to hand-hold in steady manner, and how to work around with available technology to achieve what you want.

If you think capturing fast moving subjects is hard, try capturing still subjects and make it appealing. Do you think is that easy?

if you look at the known photo-journalists and such - it's more than just knowing the camera setting to capture the moment, those are pre-requisites anyway. it's about knowing what to expect, and knowing how to react to the unexpected.

there's more to photography than that piece of device in your hand.

i like this one. well said goldie

Well spoken. I like this one.

Slow shutter speed, so train you to time your shots. <=-- this part i type wrong. i was referring to burst mode fps.

anyway the thought is that with the advancement of technology, it's very helpful if you already got your basics right. these technology help you to be even better. Every bit of technological advancement helps (btw the helpfulness varies. eg faster burst mode and superb AFing isn't going to help someone who shoot still subjects and does manual focus ).

on the flip side of the coin, advancement of technology also makes many people dependent on it. I'm not saying one shouldn't get a good camera, my post is just in reply to the above post.

I think the phrase "beginner gear limit your skill" is true in the sense that let's say you're a highly skilled photographer on assignment, being paired with lower-end gear could mean you're performing less optimally. you could get the job done, you'll probably do a great job still. it's just that perhaps that great job could be greater.

The point of my post is that I do not wish to see newbies think that they could only improve with high-end gear, as what I mentioned earlier, the lower end gear with all the limitation makes you think more, and it overall improves your photography skills as you're forced to think on how to act on situations and figure out how to overcome technological limitation.

but the above if we look from backward angle... beginner > amateur > pro > beginner...
when u reached pro level, giving any beginner gear, u don't have a prob to use it? is it what u mean?

if from fwd angle... beginner > amateur > pro...
you're stuck with beginner gear & join discussion with pro (in sense u want to learn more) & the pro talk-talk using a methodology which is not exist in your beginner gear, you still need to upgrade kan to practise what they're discuss.
no point just talk2 only but never tried. practical better compare to theory...


beginner will not improve with high end gear if they dunno about basic. that the facts which i'm also agreed...

--------------------------------------

you have no high ISO to help you, even if you did the noise control sucks.
yes it's make me THINK to upgrade to full frame to have clear ISO

Auto WB is dodgy.
yes it's make me THINK to upgrade with a better gear

No Auto ISO so you have to know when to change and how to change it fast.
yes it's make me THINK to upgrade with a better gear bcoz i want to capture precise moment fast

No lighting optimization for you so you need to take not of highlights and shadows, how to get it right.
yes it's make me THINK to upgrade with a better gear bcoz i want to capture precise moment fast

No big big nice nice LCD for you to waste time there.
this one no issue for me

Slow shutter speed, so train you to time your shots.
this one i agreed for still subject but not for fast subject

Lowest available AFing technology, so you have to do what you can to get the shot right.
yes it's make me THINK to upgrade with a better gear bcoz i want to capture precise moment fast

No wide / constant aperture lens with IS, so you have to learn how to hand-hold in steady manner, and how to work around with available technology to achieve what you want.
yes it's make me THINK to upgrade with a better gear bcoz i want to capture precise moment fast

If you think capturing fast moving subjects is hard, try capturing still subjects and make it appealing. smile.gif Do you think is that easy?
agreed coz sometime it isn't easy but you can re-do thousand times until you're satisfied...
you can take pic of 1 flower from 9am until 6pm to get your best shots...
how about moving subject/precise moments which are come once in a lifetime... a bit frust if we know the scene but miss the shoot bcoz limited of the gear capability...?

from the above can we conclude... beginner gear for a still pics / high gear for a still & fast pics...? (to relate the thread - photo vs gear)

or you're pro for still pics coz you're using beginner gear or you're pro for still / fast pics coz you're using high gear...
both above you still get a pro title no matter what gear you're use...

why canon doesn't produce 1dmk4 / nikon doesn't produce d3s where beginner can afford the price (below rm2k) so beginner can learn how to capture fast action/precise moments with the help of technology?

open for discussion...

This post has been edited by epo: Feb 9 2011, 04:19 PM

They (Canon/Nikon) will bankrupt by then
Why don't you just enjoy whatever you have currently.?

Talk to pro doesn't mean you have to upgrade though.
my friend, canon kaki use 1000D, still geng. I suppose he can be considered pro, as he won some competitions with his 1000D. talking with him doesn't make you want to upgrade your gear, but to learn more about photography.
At least that's what I feel when I am talking with him.

This post has been edited by aldosoesilo: Feb 9 2011, 04:26 PM

yup that's the proper word to use when we feel our friend is down coz of beginner gear
but u know la... human requirement... will never enough...
give 100, want 10000, give 10000 want 10000000, give 10000000, want 10000000000...


wow that's sound good... i believe he's using 1000d with 18-55 kit lens and built-in flash
once u change your kitlens or buy external flash, then you'll be considered upgrade coz want to improve your skills...
(unless u buy it to show off only)...

This post has been edited by epo: Feb 9 2011, 04:43 PM

For your information:

It's (a)amateur---> professional or (b) beginner ----> expert

You don't mix both up together

What pro talk? What methodology? lolz

You're kinda generalizing the whole thing. Be specific

Of course practical work helps you learn more/faster than theoretical knowledge alone. But of course lar, you need some basic knowledge of how things work, before you can do practical stuff


Try to take the limited ISO range as a challenge lar. If you're stuck with it, you've just got to live with it.

Learn to shoot steadier at lower shutter speeds. Get faster aperture lenses. Or get a flashgun at least, to get "faster shutter speed"



Shoot RAW lar.Can PP later. Kao tim.



Do you know what is fast shutter speed?


Are you even interested in replying to Goldfries' quote?



What's with the copy paste again? Do you actually understand what he said?






For once, I have to bloodily agree with this TOTALLY. Exactly of what I though all this while.



Beginner bodies with fast focusing lenses, can do wonders ya know. Just search around. You'll be amazed of what they can achieve.


What kind of question is this? Where have you been for the last 10 years during this IT world?

---

Added on February 9, 2011, 4:53 pmWhat do you think drove development in Science and Technology? Give it a thought a bit

This post has been edited by -kytz-: Feb 9 2011, 04:55 PM

dude how's ur 1d mark2? got it already?

I once down because of my gear but that was because of my skill.

no he didn't use kit lens, but I bet a good photographer will be able to do it with kit lens I suppose person like goldfries will do.
some good pic from 1855 kitty: (I looked those galleries of kitty when I doubt my gear)
http://www.mylensdb.com/explore/?lens=52&b...&submit=Explore
http://www.mylensdb.com/explore/?lens=72&b...&submit=Explore

I always believe gear is a car for your go get the picture, but again the person is the driver who drives it.
my college friend own D90 and always shoot in auto mode, what can I say? (female) couldn't blame her because she is a she.

Anyway you can still get those super AF, bla bla bla of pro model with entry level cost
if you don't mind investing on old used model of those top line up.
like D1, or 1D Mark 1 will do I guess. <- faultier = cheaper
but I doubt it will be a good investment for the current time being.

This post has been edited by aldosoesilo: Feb 9 2011, 05:36 PM

ohhh i thought there's a 3 level... beginner > intermediate > advance... hahaha...


pro talk / methodology... how to say haaa...
eg... fire the main flash & set the 2nd flash to 1:3 ratio & 3rd flash put the back of the object, fire at 1/16
u look like "oooo... ok i know the setting" ----> theory
then come to practical ----> open my beg
- flash only 1
- flash didn't support CLS
- flash can't set ratio
and i become... err err err... how to practice above technique with my current gear?


break the rule already... you're caught "upgraded" here...


if only have 1 pic? not 500 pic to PP...???


actually i refer to the same answer, that's why i copy paste...


break the rule already... you're caught "upgraded" here...


i dunno sometime my boss urge us to throw a question, even a silly question... :0
why we need to write on paper, when can we write on top of screen to save paper?
so it become... 10 years ago people write on notepad, nowadays people write on ipad...


difficult to explain here... need to write in a full tesis... hahaha...


that's happened to me right now...
lesson learned... don't simply click 'bid now' if you're not intend to buy...


not yet... my friend still at his hometown until 15/2... continue cap goh mei...
no point to get it from him asap coz still stuck dunno to pair with what lens...
still waiting friendly forumer here to lend their great L lens... hahaha...

This post has been edited by epo: Feb 9 2011, 05:43 PM

it's a meaningless debate bro.
"it is an upgrade" "I consider that as upgrade"

In conclusion : If you are a son of billionaire you are more than welcome to satisfy yourself both mentally and physically with your gear's bill payment.
Else just stick around with what you have and enjoy it.

The marketing gods have done their job!

epo, wut are u trying to prove actually?