After noticing quite a number of newcomers being all lost and such over many aspects of watercooling, I thought that it was time that it was time a basic set of tips be written to give you guys some inkling. The reason why one uses watercooling, I leave it to you to decide. This is just here to help the new guys. I'm gonna cover a few main aspects in the following:

Pump

The first thing one must understand is that for a looped system such as these, maximum head pressure which is measured in terms of either feet or meter of a column of water is more of an important consideration rather then maximum flow rate of the pump measure in either liter or gallons per hour. This is due to the fact the greater the maximum head pressure, the flow of water is smoother and has a higher flow rate even after going through various restrictions such as tubing bends, the water block (which varies with design, but I'll get to that later), and other components especially when you're going higher end. Do bear that in mind.

Why some pumps are costlier then others? It's for a few reasons. One is the fact even though the cheaper one has a similar rate, but that is the maximum. Costlier one's can sustain the rated value better over time compared to the cheaper one's. Then there's the reliability issue. The costlier one's use better quality motors (armature windings, magnets and such), better sealed impellers and have generally a lower heat emission. All these mean a longer operational lifetime.

Now for Nirox pump users, this is my personal observation and experience. The plastic barbs which are provided? Ditch it. Will save you a whole lot of heartache later as one of these days removing and reattaching the tubing's to it will lead it to snap it too much force is applied. And if it snaps at the base of the tappings, you're finished. No amount of gluing or whatever method you choose to refit it again will save it. Save the effort by sourcing out the proper brass barbs for it. Then there's the frequent complaint that they fail easily. A few reasons why. Number one; do not EVER run the pump dry. Even for a few seconds will cause it's lifespan to be shortened. Secondly if you have to fix the impellers yourself, make sure you fit it snugly. Too loose and at times the rod will spin freely requiring you to give it a few knocks to make sure the impeller catches on to the impeller. Too tight and you might suffer resistance at the impellers resulting in having the motor unnecessarily stressed and causing failure. Thirdly, make sure that clean current is supplied to the pump as it's sensitive to voltage and current fluctuations. So get a good surge protector at least. Lastly, give the pump proper ventilation so that heat is properly dissipated from it. It'll help extend it's lifespan.

Tubings

When you setup your loop, try to make it as short as possible. Think outside the box. Find innovative ways to place your components so that overall loop is shorter. This is helpful to maintain the flow rate of the water at a higher rate. It will help to reduce the strain of the pump as the better the flow rate of the water entering the pump, the less it has to work to suck in the water (if someone helps you push a cart, the less effort you need to pull it right?). Don't bend it too much though. If it starts to flex slightly, stop. That's as far you can go, as more will lead to having a bottleneck in the waterflow thus slowing down and reducing the water's pressure. another tip, make the length of tubing as short as possible from the pump to water block. There's a gain to be had in terms of temps. I gained a 5C reduction in mine by doing so

Reservoir

This maybe the simplest component in the loop, but there are some little things to consider in order to make things easier for you. Those using CD bay type devices, to make air lock bleeding easier for you, create a raised area around the fill hole. This is because air is always rising in a liquid due to the differences in pressure due to depth. So if you create an opening which is slightly higher then the top acrylic of the reservoir, the air bubbles will find it's way to there. In my case, I glued to the opening of my reservoir a coke bottle cap (sawn off) and it works like a charm. It's sorta like a bleed tank.

Those who are using reservoir's similar to bulkhy's cylindrical acrylic reservoir, to prevent bubbling inside it, use a thin piece of foam or sponge and wrap it around the inlet barb where the water comes out into the reservoir. This will slow down the water and reduces splashing which causes bubbles to be introduced. Imagine pouring water into a glass slowly and then rapidly, and you will see what I mean.

Radiator

A simple tip, try to make the water stay longer in the radiator as much as possible as it will allow better heat transfer. Fan placement I leave it to you. Some prefer push, other pull, some even push-pull. I personally prefer pull as it causes lesser air friction hence lower noise rates.

Water block

This is the hardest component to consider. For the best of your money, you'd want to look for a block which has the best Delta values versus head pressure. Delta value is the difference in temperature between the hot surface and the water in the block (usually measured at the barbs). The lower, the better. The trade off is that the block is more restrictive so as to allow the water to stay inside a bit longer and absorb the heat more. But too long it stays and you're gonna have a "chicken and egg" situation as the block will be warmer. What do you do? Get a higher head pressure rated pump (Now do you see what I mean when I mentioned about pumps?). The differences in the design of the blocks are numerous and it's best to do some googling about it as it will be too long to explain here. But for the best performance, look for those whose barbs which are of �" OD for the best flow rate. In fact the whole loop is recommended to be of �" diameter overall.

Water

Now here comes the most widely discussed aspect. There are many schools of thoughts on this. Ideally, one would go for distilled water with a bit of water wetter solution. This is the best as calcium build up will be minimal and bacterial build up is almost eliminated. Too much water wetter will screw up your tubing's as it will cause deterioration along the tubing's wall. Use at most 2 capfuls. Others have been known to use instead coolant to prevent corrosion but personally, it only causes an increase of temps by about 2C and if left too long in the loop, will mess your tubing's and cause sludging (gooey build up on the surface of the loop) which is a pain to clean. If you're still determined to use a water + coolant mixture, I'd say again about 2 capufuls of coolant would suffice. Want the UV effect? then use neon dye instead. But for the best compromise in terms of cost and protection, just use only distilled water, and flush and clean your loops constantly. Those who find getting distilled water a chore, filtered water is a good option but you have be more constant in your servicing intervals.


That's all I can think of right now. Hoped that helps. Others are welcome to give their own 2 cents of tips to help the newbies out there

Pretty comprehensive water cooling guide for beginners =]

Beginners guide to watercooling part 1
http://www.over-clock.com/ivb/index.php?showtopic=8324&hl=

Beginners guide to watercooling part 2.
http://www.over-clock.com/ivb/index.php?showtopic=8509&hl=

Water Coolant Chemistry Part 1
http://www.overclockers.com/articles993/

Water Coolant Chemistry Part 2
http://www.overclockers.com/tips1153/index.asp

Water Cooling Myths
http://www.overclockers.com/articles1088/



cheers!

This post has been edited by jujuzombie: Jul 1 2005, 03:06 PM

Watercooling Budget Pumps Shoot Out!!! Part 1.

I hope it's ok if i post this in this thread cause don't think it is wise to create a new thread..O.k. here we go, a few weeks back a few forumers came out with this idea of having an alternative to the renown Nirox P2800 pump which can perform better without burning a hole in our pocket. And so I've nominated 3 pumps as contenders for the budget pumps shoot out (All pumps must be sub RM100.00).
(Please refer here)
How I test it?

Each pump will undergo a real life performance test in a real life watercooling set. The test rig consists of:

1. DangerDen Maze 4 waterblock for socket 478
2. DangerDen Double Heatercore
3. 2 x NMB 120mm fans
4. Aeroplane brand �" tubing from Ah Beng Hardware shop.

The test machine:

1. P4 2.4A (533Mhz 1M L2)
2. Abit IS 7E
3. Kingston 512 KHX3200AK2
4. AcBell 400W Ipower p.s.u.
5. Geforce 9600 pro
6. Keyboard + mouse + monitor + table + chair + box of tissue paper.

Testing Method:

1. Stock Speed Idle Temperature
2. Stock Speed Load Temperature (min 10 min of prime)
3. OCed Idle Temperature
4. OCed Load Temperature
5. Pump temperature after 1 hour of operating.


So here are the pumps and results:

Reigning Champion.

Our beloved Nirox P2800: Qmax 1200L/h: Hmax 1.8m: 28W
Price: RM 28.00

Test result:
Stock Speed Idle

Stock Speed Load

.. continued.

Oced till 3.157GHz Idle


Oced till 3.157GHz Load


Pump Temperature after an hour of operating.


continued...

.. continued.

Contender No. 1

Cyber Aqua CA4700 Liquid Filter - Qmax 2650L/h: Hmax 3m : 70 W
Price: RM70.00

Stock speed idle temp

Stock speed Load temp


3.157Ghz Oced Idle temp

3.157Ghz Oced Load temp

Pump Temperature after an hour of operating.


.. continue... aiyah.. continue part 2 lah, now must attend meeting.

This post has been edited by amok: May 5 2005, 04:21 PM

Watercooling Budget Pumps Shoot Out!!! Part Deux!!.

Yes!! The long awaited sequel from the first box office shoot out: the revenge of the apam...finally stimyx is up again in my place (so what else is new form tmnet) ..O.k. here we go, a few weeks back i've tested two pumps namely the Cyber Aqua and the nirox, for the shoot out, for the result please clikc ere :Budget Pump Shoot Out Part 1

And now to conclude the shoot out, two more pumps will be introduced. Before that the intro:

Each pump will undergo a real life performance test in a real life watercooling set. The test rig consists of:

1. DangerDen Maze 4 waterblock for socket 478
2. DangerDen Double Heatercore
3. 2 x NMB 120mm fans
4. Aeroplane brand �" tubing from Ah Beng Hardware shop.

The test machine:

1. P4 2.4A (533Mhz 1M L2)
2. Abit IS 7E
3. Kingston 512 KHX3200AK2
4. AcBell 400W Ipower p.s.u.
5. Geforce 9600 pro
6. Keyboard + mouse + monitor + table + chair + box of tissue paper.

Testing Method:

1. OCed Idle Temperature
2. OCed Load Temperature
5. Pump temperature after 1 hour of operating.

Sorry this time there will be no stock temp readings.. i mean, who in the right mind will run on stock if you're in watercooling? .. ok? no offence.

So here are the pumps and results:

Contender No. 3

HaiYang HY-805 - Qmax 3500L/h: Hmax 2.5m: 60 W
Price: RM 40.00

3243GHz Oced Idle Temp


3243GHz Oced Load Temp


Pump temp after an hour of operating


Continues......

... conitnued...

Contender No. 4

AquaKing AK4000 - Qmax 3000L/h: Hmax 2m : 45W
Price: RM35.00

3.243Ghz Oced Idle temp


3.243Ghz Oced Load temp


Pump Temperature after an hour of operating.


There you go, sorry the mcp650 is with my mobile rig and currently burning in so cannot compare with the rest ler.

conclusion in conitnues...



This post has been edited by amok: May 16 2005, 03:06 AM

...continued

ok?.. not ok, since the result is disputable cause on the first pump shoot out the clock speed in oni 3.157GHz.. but i'm not gonna do the Cyber Aqua pump again, cause the results are obvious.. CyberAqua pwn Nirox. So i'd just gonna do the nirox.

So here we go... again.

The Reign Champ

Our beloved Nirox P2800: Qmax 1200L/h: Hmax 1.8m: 28W
Price : RM 28.00

3.243 GHz Idle


3.243 GHz load


Pump Operating temp.. = please refer to the first pump shoot out.

Conclusion (again?).. continues..

This post has been edited by amok: May 16 2005, 03:15 AM

.... continued

So here is a table (sort off) to summarize the shoot out result:

Pump Load TempIdle Temp Pump Temp Price Modification?

CA4700 48C43C 36.6 RM70.00 NO NEED
HY805 50.5 44.5 36.8 RM 45.00 YES
AK4000 51.5 45 39.4 RM35.00 YES, A HELL LOT
NIROX P2800 52.5 46.5 37.4 RM 28.00 YES

damn pening try to sort out the so called table above..... conclusion? there's none by me , it's up to you guys to pick you poison

Neways, i can't help voicing out that the p2800 era almost come to an end after being the king of budget pump since bro tot first discover it almost 2 years ago. But still... to me, it can hang on to that title for a few more.. . Hope you enjoy reading and viewing the pics , sorry if it kinda large cause don't have photoshop..

and thank you to our new mod: PCcrazy, for letting me to use a lot of post here.

This post has been edited by amok: May 16 2005, 03:39 AM

Well regarding the issue of Qmax (maximum flow rate), actually it depends on the resistivity of your :1 . Waterblock, 2. radiator, 3. line (tubing). If say that you've decided to use a low restrictive w/block(eg. DDMaze series) + 120mm rad then a higher Qmax pump is needed. But if you ask me, a high flow rate pump rarely.. i mean most remotely can compensate the Head Pressure(Hmax) loss in the w/cooling set, most GOOD w/blocks (cascaded, pinned) and rads nowadays are highly restrictive thus require a higher pressure heads (at least 3.0m) and an ample flow rate (e.g. 1200/hr).

Well rumours about the heat dissipated by nirox pumps as reported by tot31 with his P3800(burned) and brader .1. with his 2 x nirox p2800 (kaputed) was proven to be true from the watercooling shoot out.. you see, a 28W nirox P2800 generates 37.4C of temp which is on the high side, compared to other high wattage pump.. imagine what a 58W nirox will do.. even though it is the cheapest one yet you've got to live in fear for a pump breakdown (especially those who're folding 24/7). And, perhaps the nirox are better run submerged rather than in line... just my 2 rupee.

congratulationS , it's about time sarjan get up his lazy butt and do this thread .. . as for the rest lets keep this thread clean and for discussion just use the watercooling discussion thread.

Here a little something from me:

For further reading and understanding please have a look at the links below:

1. The Best Pump Guide

2. A VERY Introductory Guide to Watercooling

3. Evaluation of Thermochill Rads (Black Ice Xtreme)

4. Another Basic Guide at XtremeSystems(Warning, they're using a bit harsh words )


i'll edit my post from time to time to add more links and reading material..

At the moment, We're gonna do a budget end pump shoot out. We have the other necessary parts and it's better to have lesser variables then more variables to say the least. If this one goes well, we might move on to a radiator/heatercore analysis

I have been using watercooling for over a year now and here are my tips and experiences:

It is for:
1) Those who have too much time on their hands.
2) Those who want to try new things for kicks.
3) Those who are tired of whizzing noises made by processor fans
4) Those who want a decent overclocking potential

It is not for:
1) Those who's business or important documents rely on that computer.
2) Those who are new to computing and don't know at least an intermediate level of computing hardware.
3) Those who think that WC Kits are just a matter of "Plug and Play". It's more like "Plug, sometimes play, constantly replug".

Here's the basic thing : IT TAKES TIME AND ENERGY. If you don't have those, forget it, get a powerful air cooling fan. Less maintenance and no worries about leaks.

Some tips for those who are thinking of getting one :
1) If you are a neat freak, you need to think hard. Watercooling means never having to put back the side lid of your CPU. The pipes, wire and such are gonna dangle all over the place.
2) If you are new at this, get a watercooling kit. It performs quite well compared to air cooling solutions & the parts fit nicely so you can sleep soundly for a while.
3) Basic knowledge of Physics comes in handy when maintaining these things because you can't drain all the coolant unless you tilt your computer upside down and all that funny positions to get the last drop. So knowledge of how water flows and water pressure works will save you quite some hassle and preventing spills.
4) Don't be too attracted to the UV Dyes, they look cool but aren't really friendly to your metal components. Which brings me to point 5.
5) Try to get 1 type of metal for your whole kit. Waterblock and Radiator should be either both Al or Cu. Mix them with a faulty anti-corrosive coolant and you might end up corroding the metals. But this doesn't mean single metal systems aren't excluded either by the process is slower.
6) Use generic pipes. If you use the thermaltake UV pipe, you're gonna have a tough time finding replacements from your local hardware store. But 3/8'' OD 1/4''ID works. But you need to use a blade and shave the outer part of the tube to fit.

Some tricks with Pump'n'reservoir systems.
The air bubbles are gonna get it through the motor or somehow jinx the whole thing. Although it is fine, but it is just borderline. More air goes in and you risk spoiling your whole pump. So what you can do is to drill another hole and connect it to a tube and then use a rubber stopper to stop it. When the computer is not running, open the rubber stud and let the water push the air out. But this is only applicable for pump'n'reservoir systems. Thermaltake's pumps hv included two outings to connect to a backup reservoir which serves the same purpose I describe. USE THEM. If you close and seal them like shown in the box, you're gonna have a tough time opening them a year later as the plastic is low quality and it breaks.

Distilled Water.
I haven't tried this in the long term but here's my suggestion for cheap distilled water. Battery water!. They are clean and they have to contain very little ions to make sure it doesn't spoil the car battery. Incidently it works out well for watercooling. We don't like ions, they conduct electricity, and they help with the corrosion. I also recommend that if you have Aquagate Blue coolant or the Thermaltake green coolant that you want to replace, you might want to put in battery water first to wash away the old coolant. Run it for a while to flush out all the gunk (It builds up). Then drain the distilled water as much as you can and then fill in with the brand new one.

Those who gets freak out of water shorting their harware up should consider this

http://madshrimps.be/gotoartik.php?articID=363

This is not mine, rather it's from Leeum of Xtremesystems.org which I think would be useful

Radiator repair guide

What you will need:

Soldering iron
Solder with flux (I find the best stuff is the 50/50 tin and lead)
Wet and dry sandpaper
Waterproof glue



The first task is to locate the leak, the most common place for damage and a leak to occur is on one of the tubes.

These tubes run between the rows of fins on the radiator. If you have trouble spotting the damage, fill the radiator with some water to see where it runs out.



Here’s the damaged area. As you can see there’s a small hole in the tube which has been pierced by a screw. This guide only really applies to small holes, if you’re dealing with something more severe then you’re going to have to consider brazing.



The next task is to get the surrounding area of the tube rubbed down with some wet and dry to remove the paint and see the extent of the damage.



Next get your soldering iron and slide it up the tube to the damaged area, get it nice and hot and then proceed with the soldering stage.

With a bit of luck you should be able to solder right over the top of the damaged area. Just to be sure, reach for your glue (in this case, waterproof angling glue) and coat the soldered area with it.



Then get some water flowing through the radiator for a good few hours and watch the repaired are for any sign of dripping water. If you do, rub down the surrounding area and repeat the process of soldering again.

If all goes well you shouldn’t see a drop come through

This is from Maxxracer of XS concerning the current hardware avaialble in the WC scene

Guide To Current WaterCooling Components
In this guide I will give a listing of all of the current watercooling hardware on the market. For each item I will give a short description, along with the appropriate use for that item.

Most of the items in the guide are U.S. / U.K. based due to the largely english speaking and located readership. Also, most of the 'Euro' based components are not easily compatible with regards to fittings with 'American' components. As such, for simplicities sake I will omit them.

CPU WaterBlocks

1. Swiftech Storm - 75USD - this is the top performing waterblock currently in retail. It is better suited to more powerful pumps, but still performs well with low flow/power pumps. The storm is now discontinued, being replaced by the Apogee. Will update if no longer discontinued
Due to repeated incidents in which the storm is improperly installed, please be advised that the proper way to install the tubing on the storm is as follows: inlet in the center and outlet towards the outer edge.

2. Swiftech MCW6002/6000 - 45USD - for low power/flow pumps these waterblocks are top performers.. with moderate restriction these waterblocks matched with low power pumps will net decent flow to allow usage of a second waterblock

3. Cooltechnica MP-05 - 50-65USD - a high restriction waterblock with excelent performance. while it does not outperform the Storm per pump power, its lower pricetag makes it an attractive choice.

4. Danger Den TDX - 52USD - while a good waterblock, it is not an optimum choice of waterblock for a high or low power pump system. I list it merely for completeness of the guide.

5. Danger Den RBX - 52USD - Again, a good waterblock, but not worth considering unless you have some desire for a 3 barb waterblock.

6. WhiteWater LE (all copper version) - 44USD - Origionaly designed by Cathar, this 3 barb waterblock performs well, but uses a dated design and is not optimal for maximum performance.

7. Swiftech Apogee - 45USD - The newest block from Swiftech that takes a step backwards in performance. It is essentially a MCW5000 respun with a new manufacturing process (cheaper), and new delrin top. While Swiftech says its the best thing since sliced bread and Television, please try to avoid it as EVERY other block on this list performs superior to the Apogee.



GPU WaterBlocks

1. Danger Den Maze4 Acetal - 45USD - this is an excelent gpu waterblock with incredibly low restriction and great performance. I personally use one and generally reccomend them to everyone.

2. Cooltechnica MP-1 - 45USD - A newcomer to the gpu cooling segment, the MP-1 shows great potential, but with no publicly available data it cannot yet recieve my top reccomendation. With that said, sources say the waterblock performs several centigrade better than the Maze4.

3. Swiftech MCW-55 - 50USD - A revamp of the proven design of the MCW50. with improved flow characteristics it provides lower flow restriction and increased performance compared to the older, aluminum topped, MCW50. The waterblock performs on par with the Maze4. It should be noted that the performance data on this waterblock provided by swiftech should not be trusted. While their data is generally excelent, in the case of the MCW-55, it is.. in a word.. rubbish.

4. Cyclone Fusion HL - ~60USD - An Aussie waterblock of excelent construction and performance that is said to perform better than the Maze4. While this may be true there is no data as of yet to validate this. While an excelent block its lack of availability in the US and expense make it a less attractive option. For those in the UK and AU this waterblock should deffinetly be considered.



Radiators

Before I list the products I will explain why I broke them up into two categories. There are generally two users out there: the gunho, tone deaf, noise doesnt matter, and the silent computerist. So to cater to this, I broke the radiators into the low noise and high noise orientated groups.

Note: With high power fans, the "high noise" radiators will outperform the low noise radiators, but when coupled with low noise fans the "low noise" radiators outperform the others.

Low Noise

1. HWLabs Black Ice Pro (1, 2 and 3) - 29-45USD - The Black Ice Pro's have been around for a long time and are excelent performers. Currently they are the only 2 and 3 fan radiators that are orientated to quiet computing.

2. Thermochill PA160.1 - 80-130USD (price varies wildly between retailers) - The PA160 is a revolutionary radiator designed in part by Cathar. It is a single 120mm fan radiator that performs close to that of dual fan radiators. Due to its expense (outside of the UK) to performance ratio its hard to recomend it in any but very special situations, but it is still a great radiator.

3. Thermochill PA120.X - 80 to 120 USD - Described as the new king of cool, I highly reccomend these rads. They are pretty much the perfect radiator.. High cooling capacity while optimized for low noise fans.. Not much more you can ask for in a radiator. I should note that as of writing this there has not been any test data presented, but from calculations provided by Cathar, these radiators should not fail to live up to their name.


High Noise

1. HW Labs Black Ice Xtreme (1, 2, 3) - 45-78USD - These radiators provide excelent high power fan (110+CFM) performance while having a lower pricetag than the Thermochill HE series. There are rumors that the HE's perform better than the BIX series, but I really wont make such a claim as I have not seen any test data to backup such claims.

2. Thermochill HE120.X - 80 - 120 USD - Formerly Thermochills main line of radiators, they are still an excelent choice if you plan to use fans that are over 110CFM. For users in the UK who want such a radiator the Thermochills would probably be a better choice (compared to BIX's) due to cheaper costs over there.

Pumps
(Note: For simplicity's sake and the fact that some of thr 1337 pumps are not available, I've decided to omit the Iwaki's and such)

12volt Pumps:
AquaExtreme 50Z / MCP600 Rev2.0
This pump is actually better than the lainD4. I will say that right off the bat. Here is why. 1.It has more head pressure 2. Its cheaper. If you are in the market for a pump and dont want to spend the extra dough on an iwaki pump this IS the pump to get. and if you want a little lower temps go with 2 of them in series. This setup cannot be beat. It will give you approximately the same temps as running a iwaki md20RZ.
This pump was the previous version of the 12v pump that swiftech carried. They no longer carry it due to supply line issues, but it is a good pump. The rev 1 version had reliability issues with the impeller, but that is fixed now. The pump is called the 50Z and can be boughten at CoolTechnica. This particular pump is not nearly as popular as the Laing D4's now, but I have heard reports that head to head, this pump will sometimes outperform the d4 in high pressure systems. Note that I do not have any hard proof of this (I am working on that), but there are reports. The specs are 3gallons per minute and 10.5 feet of head, with 1/2inch barbed fittings. The price is around 80 dollars over at cooltechnica. It sucks about 7 watts of power

MCP655 (D5)
This is the newly released laing pump that offers a considerable improvement over the previous D4. (April 2005 release date). Some of the imrpovements include reduced noise (D4 has a horrible whinning noise, though some say it is not noticeable), input all the way up to 24volts so you can overvolt it ALOT without voiding the warranty.(NOTE: Anything above ~12.8volts does not net more performance but rather just increases heat output and is not suggested to be overvolted above 12.8volts) The other feature that is noteable is the adjustable dial on the back of the pump that allows you to adjust the speed of the pump down when maximum performance is not needed. The power consumption of this pump is not know as of yet, but heat dump is reported to be around 25watts. The maximum head pressure is 13.8 feet and maximum flow is 5.2gpm. The price is the same as the D4 and is replacing the D4.

Laing D4 - Pump out of production - No longer reccomended
This is a great little pump that is marketed by danger den and swiftech. It replaced the mcp600 because of failures with the pump. But that is now fixed. It is actually weaker and more expensive than the mcp600, but it does improve on the operational life of the mcp600. So if you are going to have you pump for a very long time this might be a better choice. Other than that, the pump really does not provide the value and performance that the mcp600 does. it can be had over at www.dangerden.com under the name of d4. This pump costs 75 dollars. It sucks about about 15 watts of power

AC Pumps:
There are really only 2 choices of pumps that people are using, and thus I will not comment on any others. The Mag 3,5,or7 is one of these pumps. Please stay away from these pumps, as they are made to be submersed and are highly prone to leaking. If you insist on getting one please be sure to seal up the pump with some plumbers goop, or silicone sealer. Failure to do so could result in a very dead computer.

Hydor L35 [The replica is the Nirox P3800..not really recommended personally)
This is a good inexpensive 120volt AC pump. I have heard many people have great success with this pump. There is also a L30 and L20, but with the L35 coming onto the market I wont talk about them, as you would most likely choose the mower powerful L35 over the other two. Its not as popular as some of the other pumps, but its a good pump. The price is around 50 dollars and it does 5.3 gallons per minute. It has a maximum head pressure of 6.83 feet and consumes 21watts. I should report that I have heard some not so great things about the reliability of this pump, and know of an alarmingly high number of RMA's. With that said, if you can afford to get a better pump do so. But if you dont have the money for a better pump, the L35 should be fine.

Eheim 1048
Eheim makes very good pumps and this pump is no exception. Many people used this pump before the D4 came out and many still do. Although it is not very powerful compared to other pumps, it is small, quiet, and highly reliable. I do not pump recommend this pump for restrictive systems with the new water blocks. If you have a less restrictive system and do not plan to do extreme over clocking then this pump will be fine. It pumps 2.63 gallons per minute and 4ft 11inches of head. It costs 49 dollars over and danger den.

Eheim 1250
This is the more commonly used Eheim pump. Again, like its little brother, it is highly reliable, wont leak, and quiet. It is a little bit bigger than the 1048. If you want specs on its exact size check out http://www.eheim.com . It pumps 4.4gallons per minute at 6ft 7inches of head. It costs 59 dollars over at danger den. I would recommend this pump to pretty much anyone who doesn't want a 12v dc pump and wants a good reliable pump. This pump is still not the most powerful one out there, but it should work fine in most cases, except the more extreme systems that are more restrictive, or have allot of components. You can still use it with restrictive blocks and while using allot of components, but I would only recommend this if you do not plan to over clock to the max of the system, or if you plan to make a more silent system.

This post has been edited by almostthere: Jan 17 2006, 05:34 PM

Mind you sharing with us that problem over at the discussion thread This is for sharing tips and tricks only.

Thread cleaned

whooo you guys are pretty hardcore all right!
I'm quite new to this forum ,though I have been
reading a lot from other sources about cooling
(my favourite is overclockers.com and present just
discovered xtremesystems.com)

the problem reading from non-malaysia sites
is that even though they are great, but lot of product
mention there is hard to find here in malaysia.
what's more the price is just not pratical for our(maybe just my)
standard of living (ie too poor lahhhhh)

so I here would like to express my sincere and deepest
thanks to you all and most of all Amok for you
water pump shoot out , it's reAlly good.

if I would have found out this site/tread earlier,
I would not have bought the Hagen aquaclear 301 pump,
which spec: Qmax=570 L/H ,Hmax=0.8M , 5W , submerged
(bought at some where johor for RM35,the only place stated to have eheim)
you can say that with a Hmax of 0.8m , it's nothing but a small
toy ,and it need to be submerged. only nice thing is the
power consumtion of 5W.

but still it's really nice to know all this now as I can start seaching
for the RM28 nirox P2800.

I think a lot of people will be very suprise if we really work this
7 us dollar pump out.

So guys,
stay cool and not wet.

:-)

Any guide on taking out the liquid?? i mean when i wanna change any part, i must take out the liquid inside 1st rite? how??? please give a guide... really super noob in WC plus any pump other than the last few post? the swiftech at the bulk section there good? pretty confusing here leh, is it some of the pump up there is for other use, i mean not purposely design for PC watercooling, just u guys brought it and mod it....

An interesting article by Bill Adams (Formerly of Swiftech) about radiators. It's a bit outdated but the basis is good reading

http://www.overclockers.com/articles481/index03.asp

This post has been edited by almostthere: Feb 20 2006, 04:23 AM

A year 2002 article from Delphi says that a pusher fan cools a rad beter than a sucker fan...

why?....

it has something to do with the ideal gas law..... PV=nRT

This law states that in a given volume of gas, the number of molecules depends on its presure and temperature (did i get this right?? my molecular physics aint that good))

Simplifying it...in laymans term ...hot air expands

so in a pusher configuration, the fan works in the cold area where the air is denser with more molecules per volume

and a sucker fan works with slightly hoter air (heated up by the rad) which is less denser and with less molecules per volume.

in the end if you take 2 systems with fans spinning at the same rpm.... the one with a pusher fan will get more air molecules pushed through the rad colecting heat.

get the logics.....?

Since someone asked me about it, I decided to post this (confirmed by aleck as well). Just in case history repeats.

Note:
Inline pumps like the Laing D5, Laing DDC and AquaXtreme 50Z are NON-submersible. DO NOT EVER submerge them into water! This is because they have other electronics at the back of the motor that are not sealed. The word Inline says it all. All Inline pumps should be non-submersible.
Pumps like the Nirox P2800 and Eheim's are encased in a single block of epoxy and thus are fully waterproof and submersible.

This post has been edited by MetalZone: Jun 14 2006, 04:34 PM

Since I tried to be vain and just f***ed up a set of tygons.. lesson learned :

Thin walled tubing sucks, they kink and go soft easily with heat.

Get the thick walled ones.

I recommend minimum 1/8" thick walls for Tygons, i.e. 1/2" ID 3/4" OD, or 7/16" ID 11/16" OD. Any thinner than that and they kink too easily for my taste.

Im about to change my water. Since now I only use the Cooler Master Radiant Mixture.

But recently iI just bought a UV coolent Mixture. Thinking of using other mixture in my system. Does anyone know where to buy the distilled water? or must obtain yourself?

Wrong place to ask. Here's the place to share tip and tricks. Post in the dedicated discussion thread please

i duno where to post my noob question.. so i will post it here since dis thread is for wc tip n trick section..
jz curiuos..
y the coolant in my reservoir de-hydrated so quickly even thought i jz top it up..
is there any prob wif my wc kits ??

You can buy distilled water from 7-eleven. The 5 litre bottle is about RM5. Look for it in the drinking water section as asking the staff will draw blank stares.

could be the problem with the tube as mentioned by some of the forumers and could be also due to the place where u place. find a colder place instead of some place too close to the window.

hi.i want to ask if anyone here tried waterblock + peltier?i want to ask where to find waterblock +peltier in lowyat?which shop sell them?anyone with tips about this might help.thanks in advance...

This post has been edited by sensesfail: Jun 4 2007, 07:41 PM

Wrong thread to ask.
Go here http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/135886

Hi guys,

I'm new to WC, planning to test out with the Swiftech's beginner's kit at the moment. Just to clarify certain things 1st.

1. For the liquid to be used, best choice is the Distilled water ? Can get those Spritzer Distilled water ? If use with the Hydrx, do it mix it with the distilled water, just 2 caps or pour all in ?

2. For the tubing, as adviced by MetalZone, the thickness should b 1/8" thick, is it easy to bend or twist ? Coz Planning to close back the side panel after installing it. I'm thinking of using the clearflex tubes, good ah ?

3. With a dual 120mm radiator, enuf to cool both CPU and chipset blocks ? I dun think it'll be enuf for VGA to be included together since the VGA are quite hot themselfs. My CPU is E6300 / AMD64 3500+ S939, chipset will be P965 on the DFI P965-S. Better to seperate ?

If my post here is redundant, kindly just remove it, just need to ask some questions, but dun think its a good idea to open a new thread unnecessarily.

Thanks in advance for all the advice.

Jy14, trust me, you don't want to use NB waterblock on Infinity P965-S.

NB waterblock is only best for those Push Pin locking retention.
It's not good for those motherboard that uses Hook retention.

1. I already tried Pure Distilled water myself on my setup. After using for 2-3weeks, there is some white spore appearing in the tubing. I think those are alga ... After that I used HydrX and the problem is solved. As for the mixture rate, you can calculate it like this. 5% of the amount of solution you need. E.g. 50ml for 1litres of water. BUT if possible, dont use HydrX... Its will cloud your tubing quite fast. I just got myself PCIce from uglyvamp

2. The thickness is not that important unless you plan to have a very sharp corner for your setup which is not recommended. Just remember that the thinner the wall, the easier you can bend the tubing. Yeah, Clearflex is a very good option but the price is abit expensive compare to Maskleer.

3. Yeah, a branded dual rad can cool your CPU/NB nicely. But of course the bigger rad, the better If you plan to cool ur GPU too, it is better to do another loop. OR get a good triple rad to cool all of it at one shot; CPU, NB and GPU. But NB cooling isnt that important unless you love to OC with very high FSB else a good NB cooler will do the job. Like what I am doing, I just ordered some stuff from uglyvamp when I visited him in SG. I going to add another GPU block in my loops. So my new setup will be WC CPU and GPU. NB will be still under air as it isnt that hot and real hard to install as need to bend the tubing kaw kaw.

I am not WC Expert. But hope help you abit. hehe.

Would the use of battery water be a good choice for water cooling?

So, does the PCIce can solve the problem of algae and the white spores?

ok, something to ask, do y-fittings got fixed flow directions? i mean as the following pics



Attached thumbnail(s)

well if you want inexpensive solution, get distilled drinking water and add one to two drops of dettol into the resovoir, and let it run for a few cycles and flush it. repeat when u refill the resovoir, and walla, gone is the brown thing/algae sticking onto your tubings...

both method of flow r the same, try turn the 2nd pic 180 degree to right or left...

but i not sure, the y fittings i get seems diff angle at each outlet, 2 same 1 diff, not sure though, need some expert or experienced people explain....


Attached thumbnail(s)

i think it's best run with the configuration on the left. you already explained it yourself why. coz of the different angles.
the left, you get equal flow restriction on both sides of incoming flow although the differences are pretty minor.

This post has been edited by MetalZone: Aug 1 2007, 03:06 PM

i thought ur Y joint is 120 degree angle... soli my bad...

yeah, but if run the configuration on the right will make my tubings looks cleaner, do it affect much? i need to bend some of my tubings if run the config on left, which means more difficult to route the tubings properly. Another question is, i know tht running dual 240mm radiator in parrallel bring better effects for the loop. if i run both on series will it kill the flow? the loop is pump, radiator1,radiator2,cpu block, gpu block, reservoir. i using mcp650, laing d4 pump. if run in series will make my tubings looks even neat but gotto sacrifice performance.

if i remember correctly, the Y-barb i sold u, the top of the Y is even sharper than a 90 degree angle. probably 60 degrees. i don't think the flow would like that bend, but then again, the differences might be pretty minor.

i had a look again at the pressure drop vs flow graphs of the MCR220 and MCW60
MCR220 at 1.5gpm has a pressure drop of 0.6psi
MCW60 at 1.5gpm is 0.75psi

So based on that assumption, adding another MCR220 to the loop in series is like adding a slightly less restrictive MCW60 waterblock. it doesn't appear to kill the flow that badly.

This post has been edited by MetalZone: Aug 1 2007, 10:25 PM

icic, so do u think setting up in parrallel with improper flow directions give better performance or dual rad at series? need some idea and some info before setup my loop as i gonna use it in long term, lazy to redid the loop as this semester are quite pack for me and i'll do it nxt week as having midterm break.

I'll frankly say I can't say for sure.
we know that higher flow rates contribute to higher efficiency, so with any component, whether the rad, or waterblock will perform better with higher flow rates. however, in general terms, radiators don't benefit from that much from increased flow rates; in fact much less than current waterblocks.

overall flow rates will be slightly higher with parallel rads. thus flow rates thru the waterblocks would be higher. but flow rate thru each of the rads alone will be halved.

in a serial rad setup, overall flow rate is slightly lower, that is, the waterblocks too. but the flow rates thru the rads are now equal to the rest of the loop.

which will perform better you say? to be sure, we're gonna need someone to test for real or do computational fluid dynamics. i'd GUESS with setups with less pump head pressure, running a parallel rad setup will benefit more, whereas with high head pressure pumps, the difference may not be so apparent.
you probably can get away with a serial setup since that's more sensible for your tubing routing needs.

UPDATE:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=145954
Read up this thread for further info.
I had totally forgot about the Delta T (temperature differential between water temp and ambient temp) of the radiators, and in this case, parallel wins. radiators are more efficient the higher the delta T is. with parallel rads, both rads have the same Delta T. whereas, with rads in series, the second rad will have a lower delta T than the first because the water temp has already been lowered by the first rad.

This post has been edited by MetalZone: Aug 3 2007, 12:09 PM

MTZ sifu, need some advise from you. Like I told you yesterday, I obtained my modded Alphacool block for GPU and it is a high restrictive block. So I am planning to add another 655 pump after my CPU Block. But I am not sure how effective is it and will those heat produced by the pump affect the temp my entire setup. Below my current setup. Res > Pump > Rad > CPU Block > Res

Thanks

I believe you can get away with just adding the alphacool nexxxos xp into the loop (after cpu block of course) since the FuZion isn't very restrictive, and the PA is one of the least restrictive rads around.

@irangan.. what casing do u use?? thinking of that casing for my WC too.. currently run without casing a.k.a bogel..

Thanks for the heads up.

Lian Li V2000B Plus II.

ok thanks for the info bro, i think i'll go for series setup as the difference is small and i'll choose more convinient and easier setup.

irangan,
can that case having 2 x 240mm running in parallel side by side at the bottom of the case??? i'm running dual 240mm rads n i have not much idea what casing i can use so i send my tower casing to my fren for mod... how much is the lian li casing???

That case cost RM958 ....

I don't think it could fit a 240mm fan nor rad as the case's width is about 21cm only ...

anyway what do u guys think about this small babe for simple PC setup ..

Swiftech Compact H20-120 CPU Cooling Kit

I think it's pretty decent for a single waterblock(CPU) loop.
I wouldn't advice adding too much heat load to as you'll end up with mediocre performance only. You might wanna look out for the 2x120mm version soon.

hmm .. actually I never want to place a full wc set into the case to cool off GPU and CPU ...

I'm just looking to cool off either one ... it's just to massive to cool off the two component ... since dual or triple rad would be needed ...

anyway seems like u got insight that there would be dual rad version for this type of kit ... am I right ??

coz ur last statement sounds possible alternative ...

yes, swiftech is coming out with a version 240mm rad... with that u can coolf of the ur gpu too i guess...

err guys...my gigabyte 3d galaxy pump broken already....where can buy nirox p2800 within sunway/puchong/bangi area arr??? any recommended shop???

try contact metal zone, or u can get the oem pump from uglyvamp. If got extra money go for D5.

MTZ; i'am using antec P160. Can i use some WC for CPU ?

Bro, wrong thread to discuss this. Discussions and questions should go here: http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/180866/+1780
But to answer your question anyway, yes you can. You could mod the top panel. Please discuss further via pm or in the aforementioned link.

~~~editedd~~~

This post has been edited by amd_hardcore: Oct 22 2007, 08:44 PM

1.can the res be situated below the pump...will the pump suck the water out...or have to place it higher?

ok....put the res same line as pump....now got one more prob....

2. i underestimated the capacity of my radiator....so no i got small air bubbles everywhere...
how do i flush them out??

This post has been edited by bikz: Dec 8 2007, 11:41 AM

Answer is no. Waterpumps for WC do not have suction pressure sufficient to perform such capbillities. And the poor pump is in the danger of being damaged since WC pumps are never meant to run dry

thx almost there....now got another prob...air bubbles....

you should post some pics of your setup for refference...

Air bubbles can be eliminated easily. Firstly make sure all clamps are tight. How to know? Check at where the clamps are located. Is there a bubble build up? If yes, reposition the clamps so as to get a tighter clamping pressure. Next would be the radiator itself. Try rocking the radiator abit to get the air bubbles stuck there to release itself. After that it's a matter of letting the loop run continuously and see how it works out. Usually after a couple of hours the bubbles would end up in the reservoir.

ok...will post sum pictures...
and rocking the radiator gonna be a prob...once i post the pic u guyz can see...haha...

how much would it be for th total cost to start a wc project? i'm interested in wc but need a simple guide from all the big bro here of where to but the kit and basic modal for starting. i already read part of the guide and hint given, so by the basic i already understand what to do. technical thing is not a problem for me.

Depends on how much u wanna spend... U can get those normal ones like Gigabyte Galaxy or u can spend around 800-1000 for a decent set...

Gigabyte Galaxy WC kit is good , but its perfomance still can't COMPETE with Swiftech , Dangerden , or etc... because i have used the Gigabyte kit. you can see my signature what disaster happen to me

but i will suggest u to fork out at least RM 600 to 900 for WC...

u can ask a forummer name METALZONE... he sell those wc stuffs...

This post has been edited by amd_hardcore: Jan 9 2008, 10:24 PM

blargh... I also want WC too... need a little more $$ ... After CNY maybe... getting a yorksfield and WC...

i have one high perfomace yet compact click on tradelist downthere

WC cost money~~ that for sure..

PS: stick to air cooling

decided to WC my GPU....
any advice before hand??
its a 8800 Ultra
alraedy bought swiftech GPU block and 16 ram heatsinks...

Just one golden thumb rule ...

Do it with cautious and test run it for a day before putting it in action ...

check all the barb and tubes for absolute leak free .. .

.......... is that galaxy wc really good??? its a kit wo..

Can I mix UV Sensitive Ink with Coolant?

u may use it, but ur loop may facing troubles after some time...

i'm wondering..is a 2 x 120 rad sufficient enough to dispate heat from lets said a Quadcore CPU and 8800 GPU ???

with a loop.

MCP655 > 2x120 rad > MCW60 > Apogee > Res > MCP655

yeah.. old Apogee. not the GT version.

looking at others... 2x120 is barely enough if u dont oc much...

Here is my setup:

Swiftech Apogee GT
Danger Den Maze 4
Swiftech Reservoir
Swiftech MCR-220 Radiator
Nirox Pump

My 8800GT load temp is in the 40's range and CPU load is around 50's (1.4125Vcore) - air cond room
I guess the Quad would be hotter but it also depends what voltage you're running on.

oh. cool..
then i guess. i'm safe. lolx..
just make d worst situation if try to run Quad core..
hmm..will switching to Apogee GTX would be better??

where can u buy that APOGEE GTX???

further more if u want to buy the GTX u should change the top from alumunium to copper to....

it will prevent corossion...

no idea yet. look around S'pore ???

any suggestion between swiftech hydrx and pc ice?

id say use neither, cause you'll contaminate the tubes and stuff.
the Hydrx makes the look cloudy and its not nice.
PC Ice looks very nice though.
If i had to choose, definitely PC Ice, but its more costly though

okeh banyak thx

Has anyone tried both Nirox and MCP-655 pumps? Does the MCP-655 gets just as hot when it runs like the Nirox?

MCP-655 run alot cooler and lesser heat dump yet better performance compare to nirox i think, tried nirox before but mcp650 instead of mcp655...

Thanks bro Well, MCP-655 is 8x more expensive than the Nirox though