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 VIOS VS FORTE 1.6, VIOS VS FORTE 1.6

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cybermaster98
post Oct 5 2010, 09:51 AM

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QUOTE(eddie_al @ Oct 5 2010, 12:20 AM)
sorry to bust yr bubble cyber, but that statement can be voided ler. one can check with motor trader & confirm that for the past 2 years, lancer 2.0 has never gotten into the top 20 sales model in msia. even triton outsells lancer.

but a quick look at mudah, we can see a '07 lancer gt still sells for around 90k. thats about 25% depreciation ya?

i've checked also the figure for civic 2.0 & altis 1.8, they too, sell for around 24%~26% depreciation. but of course we all know these two models easily tops lancer in terms of number in sales. (since lancer isn't top 20, i guess around thrice?) so ya, resale value determined by number of sales is not necessary so.

i think it's the "want to get" factor. simply put, alot of people wanted to get the lancer 2.0gt too (as much as civic or altis?), but not at its' original asking price of 120K. there is alot of reason for that; plasticky interior, questionable handling, etc etc. but at 2nd hand price, these weakness are more acceptable (or we say, overlooked). that's why alot of people are so hyped up by the new waja now, it's just like getting a new lancer at 2nd handed lancer's price.

T&H always excel at creating the "want to get" factor with most of their models, whether it is new or 2nd hand. that's why their resale value are strong. peeps wanted their cars, old or new. but there are exceptions too.

now back to forte, i believe the "want to get" factor is similar to lancer, and provided naza doesn't butthurt current forte owner like how proton did with lancer owners, i think the residual value for 2nd hand forte should be quite as remarkable as lancer, even if the sales figure doesn't shine.
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When we talk about resale value we're refering to their holding power of that particular model over a number of years.

A majority of the Civic sales to date were for the 1.8L category not the 2.0. Thats why a Civic 1.8L only loses about 21% of its value as compared to 23% for the Civic 2.0L. The Lancer loses marginally more at around 24%.

But u also have to take into account another factor. ALL cars depreciate alot within the first 3 - 5 yrs especially the first 3. In the case of the Civic 1.8L the price difference between a 2006 model and a 2007 model is only about 2-3K. Why? Because as the car grows older, its price holding power increases. Cars like Toyota and Honda are renowed for their hlding power.

Its difficult to judge any car for the first 2-3 yrs. Even a Vios loses alot in the first 3 yrs. If u want a real comparison, do it for cars 5 yrs and older.
cybermaster98
post Oct 5 2010, 10:06 AM

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QUOTE(NiCkY @ Oct 4 2010, 11:56 PM)
btw, ur vios FC seems so so only... my FC for 55% highway, 30% town and 15% heavy jam also can get 15KM/L...
not yet try 100% highway, i assume should not be problem to hit 17KM/L or above for highway...
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What car do u drive?
cybermaster98
post Oct 5 2010, 11:33 AM

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QUOTE(zeus2005 @ Oct 5 2010, 10:55 AM)
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I couldn't agree with you on the built quality. My close friend who is driving the Vios older generation (not the dugong version) had problem with power window for three times in 3 years alone, luckily it was still under warranty. The most worst part is, his car engine's valve pecah right after the warranty period and he had to fork out few K to repair it. I was like OMG, a so called branded toyota engine. Unbelieveable!!! Even my bro that doesn't really take care of his waja (5 years car)doesn't has this valve broken issue, at least engine part failure.

My friend really fed up and disappointed with the vios built quality and advises me not to get vios.
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When we refer to build quality, customer service standards, fuel consumption, etc we are refering to the GENERAL EXPERIENCE. 1 good/bad experience cannot be taken as a yardstick. In every car manufacturer, there will always be cars which do not comform to the norm.

Just early this year there was a case in US about a Merc customer who sued Mercedes Benz cuz his brand new Merc gave him endless electrical and electronic problems. And finally Mercedes replaced the car for him. Does this mean Merc is bad? Of course not. Just last month we heard numerous news reports from around the world where the latest Ferrari was always catching fire due to a battery/ignition fault. Does this mean that ferrari is a crap car? Of course not.

Yes ive heard some horror stories about Vios but in general most Vios owners are very happy with their cars.
chastise
post Oct 5 2010, 05:18 PM

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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Oct 5 2010, 11:33 AM)
When we refer to build quality, customer service standards, fuel consumption, etc we are refering to the GENERAL EXPERIENCE. 1 good/bad experience cannot be taken as a yardstick. In every car manufacturer, there will always be cars which do not comform to the norm.

Just early this year there was a case in US about a Merc customer who sued Mercedes Benz cuz his brand new Merc gave him endless electrical and electronic problems. And finally Mercedes replaced the car for him. Does this mean Merc is bad? Of course not. Just last month we heard numerous news reports from around the world where the latest Ferrari was always catching fire due to a battery/ignition fault. Does this mean that ferrari is a crap car? Of course not.

Yes ive heard some horror stories about Vios but in general most Vios owners are very happy with their cars.
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Owning a Toyota was a nightmare. Sold it off after 7 years. Well from my experience, I've heard numerous complaints about toyota's SC services. My power window was a disaster. Their SC banged my car twice! The ONLY thing i like about the car is the FC. And yes, it was a vios.
eddie_al
post Oct 5 2010, 06:03 PM

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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Oct 5 2010, 09:51 AM)
When we talk about resale value we're refering to their holding power of that particular model over a number of years.

A majority of the Civic sales to date were for the 1.8L category not the 2.0. Thats why a Civic 1.8L only loses about 21% of its value as compared to 23% for the Civic 2.0L. The Lancer loses marginally more at around 24%.

But u also have to take into account another factor. ALL cars depreciate alot within the first 3 - 5 yrs especially the first 3. In the case of the Civic 1.8L the price difference between a 2006 model and a 2007 model is only about 2-3K. Why? Because as the car grows older, its price holding power increases. Cars like Toyota and Honda are renowed for their hlding power.

Its difficult to judge any car for the first 2-3 yrs. Even a Vios loses alot in the first 3 yrs. If u want a real comparison, do it for cars 5 yrs and older.
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friend,

don't practise double standard with the things said. what you said is true, but do you know why i used lancer as an example? it's because it is being distributed by EON/Proton. Proton SC is famous for being notorious just as Naza SC is, don't we all agree? And infact, Lancer sales was never significant. but you said that resale value is determined by sales volume, which i really don't think so. the oldest lancer 2.0 is 3 years old, therefore if i say, lancer resale value will be weak because 1) low sales volume 2) bad aftersales because of associations with EON/proton aka lousy which is according to your assesment; will that still be true for another 2 years? who knows....but for now, the figure shows it doesn't.

same thing with forte, the car is barely 1 year old. but already you gave your assesment that Resale value will be poor since its Naza, which is more like speculation. you can't consider speculation or your perception as a fact, and then bring it as point. it's not, because we still can't tell. you said it aint fair to compare lancer because the car is not "old" enough, well same thing with forte. but using lancer as a comparison is not that far off because of they have almost similar associations (bad SC, not as strong branding as T&H, etc. etc)

you know what, i would agree with your assessment if you would stop using poor resale value as a point when discussing forte. infact, the last time i got into a discussion with you, i've already stated this, but somehow that discussion got carried away. so do we have an agreement now that you are speculating on the poor resale value of forte? other points are also questionable but since you agree that resale value cannot be determined by short period comparison, so at least this point is clearly "out of question & discussion" until time can tell. ok?

This post has been edited by eddie_al: Oct 5 2010, 06:06 PM
NiCkY
post Oct 5 2010, 10:53 PM

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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Oct 5 2010, 10:06 AM)
What car do u drive?
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current vios... although a lot ppl bash it using same engine and gearbox, but EPS and E-throttle do help in fuel saving, if u know how to use E-throttle... tongue.gif
cybermaster98
post Oct 6 2010, 09:43 AM

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QUOTE(eddie_al @ Oct 5 2010, 06:03 PM)
friend,

don't practise double standard with the things said. what you said is true, but do you know why i used lancer as an example? it's because it is being distributed by EON/Proton. Proton SC is famous for being notorious just as Naza SC is, don't we all agree? And infact, Lancer sales was never significant. but you said that resale value is determined by sales volume, which i really don't think so. the oldest lancer 2.0 is 3 years old, therefore if i say, lancer resale value will be weak because 1) low sales volume 2) bad aftersales because of associations with EON/proton aka lousy which is according to your assesment; will that still be true for another 2 years? who knows....but for now, the figure shows it doesn't.

same thing with forte, the car is barely 1 year old. but already you gave your assesment that Resale value will be poor since its Naza, which is more like speculation. you can't consider speculation or your perception as a fact, and then bring it as point. it's not, because we still can't tell. you said it aint fair to compare lancer because the car is not "old" enough, well same thing with forte. but using lancer as a comparison is not that far off because of they have almost similar associations (bad SC, not as strong branding as T&H, etc. etc)

you know what, i would agree with your assessment if you would stop using poor resale value as a point when discussing forte. infact, the last time i got into a discussion with you, i've already stated this, but somehow that discussion got carried away. so do we have an agreement now that you are speculating on the poor resale value of forte? other points are also questionable but since you agree that resale value cannot be determined by short period comparison, so at least this point is clearly "out of question & discussion" until time can tell. ok?
*
Ive always maintained that the Forte resale value will be poor because of the number of original sales. That has not changed. When i talk about resale values im always refering to the nominal time frame of 5-7 yrs. Nobody talks about resale values refering to the 2-3 yr time frame (except you probably)

U brought up the Lancer in comparison with the Civic for a 3 yr period which i think is a silly comparison and i answered u on why the drop in the resale value is similar between both cars (although there is a difference as ive clearly pointed out).

There is no double standards mentioned. Facts are facts and none of it will change. The more u try and find fault with my facts and arguments the more ure gonna lose.
cybermaster98
post Oct 6 2010, 09:49 AM

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Just for info:

New Kia Forte 1.6SX - RM 81,800
10 month old Forte 1.6SX - RM 70,800

Drop in resale value = 13% in 10 months. Quite OK i guess.

http://www.mudah.my/Kia+Forte+1+6+SX+Auto+...+09-7291504.htm

This post has been edited by cybermaster98: Oct 6 2010, 09:51 AM
eddie_al
post Oct 6 2010, 09:50 AM

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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Oct 6 2010, 09:43 AM)
Ive always maintained that the Forte resale value will be poor because of the number of original sales. That has not changed. When i talk about resale values im always refering to the nominal time frame of 5-7 yrs. Nobody talks about resale values refering to the 2-3 yr time frame (except you probably)

U brought up the Lancer in comparison with the Civic for a 3 yr period which i think is a silly comparison and i answered u on why the drop in the resale value is similar between both cars (although there is a difference as ive clearly pointed out).

There is no double standards mentioned. Facts are facts and none of it will change. The more u try and find fault with my facts and arguments the more ure gonna lose.
*
sigh...whatever. as it seems now, whatever you said - FACTS. whatever others said, no matter how it is put up, NON-FACTS. guess we all have been living in an imaginary world, smile.gif.

not finding fault with yr facts, unless you have problem understanding my post. i am saying that fact is not yet a fact until forte reaches the years where the resale value is indeed bad. you have already gaven your assesment even before that happened. that's FACT, according to you.


cybermaster98
post Oct 6 2010, 09:53 AM

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QUOTE(eddie_al @ Oct 6 2010, 09:50 AM)
sigh...whatever. as it seems now, whatever you said - FACTS. whatever others said, no matter how it is put up, NON-FACTS. guess we all have been living in an imaginary world, smile.gif.

not finding fault with yr facts, unless you have problem understanding my post. i am saying that fact is not yet a fact until forte reaches the years where the resale value is indeed bad. you have already gaven your assesment even before that happened. that's FACT, according to you.
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No. What i mentioned about the Forte was my own opinion based on current trends. It cannot be a fact since it has not happened yet. Go read all my posts before commenting and making a fool out of yorself.
eddie_al
post Oct 6 2010, 09:53 AM

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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Oct 6 2010, 09:49 AM)
Just for info:

New Kia Forte 1.6SX - RM 81,800
10 month old Forte 1.6SX - RM 70,800

Drop in resale value = 13% in 10 months. Quite OK i guess.

http://www.mudah.my/Kia+Forte+1+6+SX+Auto+...+09-7291504.htm
*
i remembered you saying, "dont take example of one bad experiance and concludes it as a general statement". you don't need me to find where you said that right?


Added on October 6, 2010, 9:54 am
QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Oct 6 2010, 09:53 AM)
No. What i mentioned about the Forte was my own opinion based on current trends. It cannot be a fact since it has not happened yet. Go read all my posts before commenting and making a fool out of yorself.
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Facts are facts and none of it will change <- you said

brother, stop spinning around. it's getting ugly.

i already said i agree with your assesment, only not the resale value part because it's still not time to tell.

This post has been edited by eddie_al: Oct 6 2010, 09:55 AM
cybermaster98
post Oct 6 2010, 09:56 AM

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QUOTE(eddie_al @ Oct 6 2010, 09:53 AM)
i remembered you saying, "dont take example of one bad experiance and concludes it as a general statement". you don't need me to find where you said that right?


Added on October 6, 2010, 9:54 am

Facts are facts and none of it will change <- you said

brother, stop spinning around. it's getting ugly.

i already said i agree with your assesment, only not the resale value part because it's still not time to tell.
*
The facts were regarding the resale value period of assumption being 5-7yrs. How can one possibly say that something is a fact when it hasnt happened? Grow up bro. Ure pushing yerself further and further down the pit.
Taipan052
post Oct 6 2010, 09:57 AM

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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Oct 6 2010, 09:49 AM)
Just for info:

New Kia Forte 1.6SX - RM 81,800
10 month old Forte 1.6SX - RM 70,800

Drop in resale value = 13% in 10 months. Quite OK i guess.

http://www.mudah.my/Kia+Forte+1+6+SX+Auto+...+09-7291504.htm
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http://www.mudah.my/Toyota+vios+s+spec+1+5...+09-6408652.htm
http://www.mudah.my/Toyota+Vios+1+5+S+Spec...ond-7168059.htm

original vios s price = rm88K
2nd hand value = rm75K

drop in value rclxub.gif rclxub.gif = rm13K doh.gif
cybermaster98
post Oct 6 2010, 09:58 AM

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QUOTE(eddie_al @ Oct 6 2010, 09:53 AM)
i remembered you saying, "dont take example of one bad experiance and concludes it as a general statement". you don't need me to find where you said that right?


Added on October 6, 2010, 9:54 am
Do u see the words 'just for info'? Do u know what that means? Go use a disctionary if u have problems with vocab. Its for everybody's INFORMATION as it could be the 1st 2nd hand Kia Forte up for sale.

Again, dont bother trying. Ure up against a wall in this case.
cybermaster98
post Oct 6 2010, 10:01 AM

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QUOTE(Taipan052 @ Oct 6 2010, 09:57 AM)
http://www.mudah.my/Toyota+vios+s+spec+1+5...+09-6408652.htm
http://www.mudah.my/Toyota+Vios+1+5+S+Spec...ond-7168059.htm

original vios s price = rm88K
2nd hand value = rm75K

drop in value rclxub.gif  rclxub.gif  = rm13K  doh.gif
*
Read my post above before commenting. Ure again making a fool out of yerself (as usual) rclxm9.gif


Its difficult to judge any car for the first 2-3 yrs. Even a Vios loses alot in the first 3 yrs. If u want a real comparison, do it for cars 5 yrs and older.
Taipan052
post Oct 6 2010, 10:11 AM

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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Oct 6 2010, 10:01 AM)
Read my post above before commenting. Ure again making a fool out of yerself (as usual)  rclxm9.gif
Its difficult to judge any car for the first 2-3 yrs. Even a Vios loses alot in the first 3 yrs. If u want a real comparison, do it for cars 5 yrs and older.
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then dont quote forte 2nd value for first year. u make yourself look fool.
cybermaster98
post Oct 6 2010, 10:15 AM

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QUOTE(Taipan052 @ Oct 6 2010, 10:11 AM)
then dont quote forte 2nd value for first year. u make yourself look fool.
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I gave it for info purposes since that could be the 1st Forte on 2nd hand sale. Dont tell me what i can or cannot quote. if u want fight facts with facts but never prevent someone from sharing.
JackX
post Oct 6 2010, 10:28 AM

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QUOTE(Taipan052 @ Oct 6 2010, 10:11 AM)
then dont quote forte 2nd value for first year. u make yourself look fool.
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Actually bro, I think we should look at the floor price of the car. For example, Vios lowest price you can find is about RM40k+ cheapest, while for lower price you can get hyundai models that are marketed at a higher range compared to Toyota Vios.

What I'm trying to say is, the new Waja maybe have good resale value if the car is problematic free. From the current trend it seems that Proton have improved vastly. thumbup.gif
eddie_al
post Oct 6 2010, 10:35 AM

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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Oct 4 2010, 12:59 AM)
Ill give u an assessment:

Vios

Pros
1) Excellent fuel consumption - 13km/L (city) and 15km/L (highway)
2) Very good after sales service from Toyota
3) Good build quality
4) Very reasonable maintainence costs
5) Excellent resale value - only about 40% drop in price after 7 yrs

Cons
1) Average specs
2) Current Vios design is average also
3) Price bit high
4) Not spacious at the rear but is ok since its targetted at young adults and not families

Forte

Pros
1) Good specs
2) Good physical design
3) Ample rear legroom
4) Excellent price

Cons
1) Mediorce after sales service as it is Naza
2) Cost of spare parts might be expensive if they dont sell enough cars
3) Resale value will be poor since its Naza and if sale numbers dont improve
4) Build quality - hopefully is improved compared to earlier models which gave alot of trouble
5) Fuel consumption higher

Conclusion:
Wait for the upcoming Hyundai Avante. 1.6L but with 6 speed gearbox and more horsepower than even the Honda Civic 1.8
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don't drag the discussion further from where it was originally. please refer back your own post. you gave your assessment on VIOS vs Forte, i am only disagreeing "the resale value will be poor", because there is no substantiate info yet to say so. is it so hard to recognize that keep "poor resale" out of the discussion? it is called speculation. you speculated because you had bad experiance with Kia/Hyundai. Well, thank you for your info.

But don't make it a critical point as the way you put in yr assessment. it shouldn't be there. drop the defensive stance and read with open mind.

i used lancer as a poor comparison since even the model itself is also new, but since you see it viable to say Forte will be weak without it reaching it's period, so i thought i could too. but you do not seem to practise same standard with the things you said.
cybermaster98
post Oct 6 2010, 10:52 AM

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QUOTE(eddie_al @ Oct 6 2010, 10:35 AM)
don't drag the discussion further from where it was originally. please refer back your own post. you gave your assessment on VIOS vs Forte, i am only disagreeing "the resale value will be poor", because there is no substantiate info yet to say so. is it so hard to recognize that keep "poor resale" out of the discussion? it is called speculation. you speculated because you had bad experiance with Kia/Hyundai. Well, thank you for your info.

But don't make it a critical point as the way you put in yr assessment. it shouldn't be there. drop the defensive stance and read with open mind.

i used lancer as a poor comparison since even the model itself is also new, but since you see it viable to say Forte will be weak without it reaching it's period, so i thought i could too. but you do not seem to practise same standard with the things you said.
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Its like shooting your own foot u know?

Resale value will be poor since its Naza and if sale numbers dont improve

The word 'will be' is quite different from 'is'. It shows something happening in the future so it cant be a fact as ure trying to imply. Plus again ive stated its sales figures which affect the resale value among others.

How can i speculate on resale value based on my bad experience with Kia/Hundai? rclxub.gif Doesnt make sense at all. Resale values are determined by brand perception and demand which are reflected in sales numbers (not refering to the unique & highly specialised models).

Still trying eh? Well, try harder my friend. Ure clearly not cut out to be a lawyer.

This post has been edited by cybermaster98: Oct 6 2010, 10:55 AM

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