The sales are not increase and I cannot hit the target so cannot get the commission

My handphone is a GPS phone for me .. I need to for travel to my customer place ... Once I know for 1st time then I don't use it anymore except I got new customer again.

Sad case , and I only 22 .. LOL !

I've decided.

I'll raise my property loan repayment so i can save on interest

currently, the best of ASN or ASM or any AS is around 6%, which is lower than the current BLR

so what say you guys?

waiting for property market bubble to burst is like waiting for uncertainty, which may or may not happen

anyhow, speaking of property, i prefer buying shoplot (with good location) rather than houses as they appreciate faster and is more liquid. only thing is the interest rate for the loan is much higher than homeloan (yeah, i know there's a way around that by re-mortgaging your house)

Not worth it to clear your property loan. You save at interest rate of about 4.8%-5%, but instead you can get a semi-guaranteed 6% from ASN. Furthermore the loan interest amount can offset your rental income (for the same property only, if you stay yourself, no savings!), so you can save on your income tax. If you have extra money consider to invest in a secondary property instead. Property type depend on your investment.

Landed houses - Very bad yield (~2-3%), the best appreciation if the location is good.
Apartment/Condo - Good yield (~6%-8%), lower appreciation, older condo don't appreciate much.
Shophouse/Lot - Medium Yield, medium appreciation. Highly dependent on the economy.

This post has been edited by gark: Oct 4 2010, 09:03 AM

Your car + food & every day expenses is killing you

Hi all!

Pardon me I am a green horn. Hope to learn from you guys.


How volatile is the bond market at the present moment?

If I want to invest in bond fund, what's your recommendation?

How much do I start with?

What are their charges, commission etc?

Thanks in anticipation.



Nomen

Hi Nomen, in some cases, bond unit trust is better than Fixed deposit and there is also more flexibility. However, it is not very popular as the comission for the agent is really small. The sales charge is only 0.25% for public mutual, public islamic sector bond fund. Even when the market turns down, and it is safer to go to bond, you don't often hear the agents asking you to switch. Annual fee is up to 0.83%. Total return last year was 5%, quite comparable or better than fd. This year is looking better. performance is not volatile, in fact for the last year, it looks like a straight line up. Minimum investment is Rm 1,000. you can add a minimum of rm 100 anytime. you can make direct debit instruction from bsn, public bank and maybank for disciplined investment.

the stock market is going up now, so now is actually the time to go equity fund. Find an agent that has the expertise to advise when trend is shifting so you can then protect your gain by going to
bond.

I am happy to answer any questions, feel free to pm me. For a faster response, please email me.

I am much obliged for your kind reply.

I plan to open 2 accounts to go into Unit Trust Fund Investment for a start.
One Equity Account &
One Bond Account
to switch from equity to bond during a down trend as you had advised
but I need to find sometime one with expertise.

There are lots of bonds to choose from but how do I differentiate which bond is a junk bond.

As for Equity fund, since I am a beginner I would only go for a low risk appetite.

I do hope to get some tips contribution from you and other experienced investors from this forum as well.

Thank You.

Nomen

Ho Nomen, sorry for the late reply.
The first thing you want to focus on is selecting the right unit trust company
The second most important or maybe the first? is selecting a unit trust consultant. You need a unit trust consultant who can help you to maximize your profit, not just his/hers.
Then the last one is selecting the fund, it is not the other way around.
I will follow up with other posts.

---

Added on October 8, 2010, 11:00 pmThe key to to success in unit trust invetsment is timing/switching, i.e. when to move from equity fund to bond fund and vice versa. If you do it well, God willing, it will be very profitable. The key then is to find a unit trust company that let you switch easily without incurring unnecessary charges. Then you need to find a unit trust consultant that can tell you when to switch, unless you have the expertise.

Some unit trust company doesn't encourage switching, you pay the sales charge when you come back in again even though you have paid it before. You need to be able to do it easily without asking permission or paying the sales charge again.

The unit trust consultant that can advise you about market timing or when to switch should have some fundamental knowledge such as
-Intermarket relationship
-Market sentiment
-Sound knowledge and experience in technical analysis

I have my bias, I will PM you some details.

This post has been edited by buylowsellhigh: Oct 8 2010, 11:00 PM

I disagree
Although selecting the good unit trust company is important.
Selecting a right UT which suit to individual risk appetite is the most important and which is always the one dictates how well your invested money is doing.

Under a good unit trust company, there is a fund register 20% gain from last year performance, there is also a fund register 30% losses since launched 2 years ago. Some even 40-50% since first day launching, even come from a big reputable and good UT company.

The key to success of a investment is always the right investment, not timing. Althought timing does help, and sometimes very important.
Timing a unit trust is just like timing a stock goes up and goes down and your earn between from it. This is very difficult and most people won't able to do it in real life.
There is a good unit trust or fund that has been register hefty gain since start 10 years + ago, which you don't need to time the market at all to have a 200% gain over the last 10+ years.

Although timing can maximise the profit, it could minimise the profit as well. It works both well.
Try to time the market, is like try to more clever than the market.

Although sometimes, we can time the market, as it doesn't need rocket science or specific analysis to know the market is too high, just like bond is going up non-stop for the last year or so until now, which common sense does tell us bond price is a bit high now.
In ordinary market condition, timing the market is always a bad practice, and may minimise your profit instead maximise it.

Invest in UT is about long term investment. It is not advisable to invest long term based on TA alone. Long term investment is all about fundamental issue.

UT not recommended unless u really have no idea on how to invest your money.
UT fees & commissions will be there irrespective of the funds performance.
Up or down the UT fund managers are making money out of u.

If u still want to buy then look for low cost UT, typically index type fund
or better still put your money in index linked ETF.

Invest periodically. When price is high u get less units and when low u get more units. In the long run your cost will average. (dollar cost averaging).
So this will eliminate the timing issue.

Money used for this investment should be for long term saving. (Retirement,children's education fund etc.) Not money you are going to use next year or so.

I can sympathize with xu7jp and cherroy view indeed. The view is correct for most people since timing the market is a skill possessed by a select few. At some point I felt the same way and was contented with putting my hard earned money in a safe but low return investment vehicle. Our conclusion is shaped by our assumptions and our assumptions are based on our knowledge. Once our knowlede expands, so will our assumptions and therefore our conclusion. I think it is best to say that if you can't find a person or a way to relaiably time the market then just stick to what most people do.

As for me, the charts below speaks for themselves. The first one is how my system, pure TA, signals the bottom of the market in early 2009 and the second one is how KLSE is doing now. The system determines the cycle direction, momentum, strength, and also how the other asia pacific bourses are performing. The system was developed to tell me when the market is starting an uptrend, downtrend or moving sideways and by taking into account various market behavior over decades. there is demand for such timing advise for those who do not want to dabble in the stock market. If anyone has more detailed question not related to this thread feel free to PM me.

The question I ask myself is which one is safer, letting my profit disappear during a bear (downturn) market or protecting it if we can?. I think each of us know the answer. Anyhow, best of luck to all.

Early 2009. note also how my system called the market top early 2008.


Now


Source: http://belirendahjualtinggi.wordpress.com

This post has been edited by buylowsellhigh: Oct 9 2010, 06:38 PM

No offence, it is too late to talk about this.
What concern whatever TA, or fundamental POV is where we are going now.

We can look back and put tons of theory and TA on it, but this doesn't address what we are most concerning now.
Everytime we make investment, is what next. Not looking back on what system pointed out which is signal this and that. No offence.

If this has been posted during 2008, to signal high so that people get out of market, I congratulated.
If this has been posted during early 2009, signal bottom has been formed and guide people to buy, I congratulated.

Often TA or a lot of TA tehory doesn't address top or bottom was formed after market trend has been formed later on, aka too late.
It doesn't address the current issue.
Just like now, I ask where is TA currently pointing to which direction?
This is the answer we want.

The correct way to prove a TA works or not, is posting now what TA is pointing us to.
Then we look back after 6 months or so, and this process repeating, only then the validity of the TA has more credibility.

We can have tons of TA theory out there to prove 2007-2008 was the market high and 2008-2009 was the market bottom.
As look back is easy, going forward is not.

RIGHT NOW
Actually no offense. I thought I have answered your question before you actually asked it since I posted the chart that shows how it looks like NOW.
Now it is pointing up. That's the red curve pointing up, it is showing the current trend. That's all I need. That's me going foward. I will remain bullish until when it changes direction.

The past data is to show how the system performed in the past since the system does not attempt to curve fit future data. It was designed knowing that market has many personality.
As an investor myself it doesn't make sense to me to create a system that cheats me or curve fit future data on current data.
the way i test the system is to actually take out some data and see how the system works at critical juncture.


FORWARD TESTING, BLIND DATA.
One of many examples below. I loaded data till May 2009. So basically the system is blind to the fact that we had a confirmed bull run in 2009 until present. But already in April-May 2009, once we had a confirmed long trem trend, away from the violent whipsaw previously seen at the bottom, (I am not interested in short term trend), the red curves turned up. Definitely not too late.



This is another signal from my system. The price bar turns blue already in April, indicating positive long term momentum. Again, the system is blind to any data beyond May 2009.



So we don't have to wait 6 months to test the system, this is called forward testing. I can forward test on any index anytime with consistent result as there is no curve fitting element at all in my system.

HEALTHY SKEPTICISM
I am not interested in a system that predicts, just a system that can tell me what the trend is now.
I know that this is a paradigm shift for many, having a TA system that actually works and i can truely sympathize with the skepticism, maybe I have not seen enough but I myself have not seen any system like mine before this! There are just a few UTC who guide their clients with TA, but I don't know how their system works. It definitely took me hundreds of dollars (not ringgit) of books, 10 years, hundred of dollars of software to finally come with the understanding and the system. How it works? If I have some time to explain to you, you will see how it is simple, but that's my trade secrets.

BACK TO RIGHT NOW AGAIN
Forget about the stuff I said about forwrad testing if you think I am not being upright here. I have shown how the system would have done in the PAST and I have shown NOW. That is much more already than what the so called "experts" are doing. Again, right now, we are in an uptrend, not at the bottom, definitely not at the top. Some may say that this is easy to say, but is it? I still hear a lot of people are still scared to go into the market now. And I sure don't hear people screaming "we are in a bull run now, get in..get in..before it's too late" We will only hear about it when it's too late actually. So basically I am saying what many are not saying, we are in a bull run. Feel free to judge me on that now or whenever. The fact of the matter is many can't see the trend even if they are staring at it. That's the service I provide, answering the question you are asking, what about now. I can do this again and again and again...but of course it can't be free anymore.

I believe we think in a similar way, we want answer that almost every investor wants, what is the current trend? should I go in? should i hold? should I exit? This has taken a bit of my time. Anything more, feel free to email/PM me.



This post has been edited by buylowsellhigh: Oct 10 2010, 04:55 AM

Investors just want this short answer for any TA.
Then we can evaluate how good the system is, after commit in real life investing.
No point looking back to say how good the system is.
A system can be foolproof for years but can stumble with unpredictable market trend.

Forward testing is not reflecting the real situation out there, although you can key in many variable as we wish.
When the signal changing direction it may prompt you to sell, but the do you sell?
Also, signal can change within weeks as well due to unpredictable market movement.

I don't mean to criticise, just blindly believe any TA is always a bad practice. TA is the one to guide and give clue how the market trend. It doesn't predict the future market trend.

Also most TA is based on indices, and even index surge to all time high like KLCI to surpass 1500, it doesn't address still large portion of stocks especially 2nd liner stocks are underwater.
Unless one is trading in Index ETF, Index future, then the TA only applicable.

Also, index doesn't represent every stocks out there.

Anyone with some mathematical skill can always create different kind of TA by using historical data as reference to prove the validity of TA.
Just like we know the result of 2 x 3 = 6. So it is not difficult to create a system to find out the answer (?) of 2 x ? = 6. Because TA being created by looking back what had happend and based on pattern it showed.
Anyway, I don't mean to criticise about TA, as any TA is always good to give some indication. But blindly believe any system is always a bad practice to start with (other may disagree or not, never mind, just my pov which I would like to highlight)

This issue is a bit OT with this topic, so I think better post this kind of issue elsewhere.

Cheers.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Oct 10 2010, 10:33 AM

The discuss of applying TA into investment is off topic from personal financial managment. Any further discussion about TA should be in other thread, not here.

When people ask about how to efficiently utilise the spare cash on hand, so we could suggest few asset classes such as securities, properties, unit trusts/mutual funds and fixed deposit.

IMHO, I think those who is not savvy in financial knowledge, I'd recommend them to go for trust fund. Of course, picking a right trust fund is ultimate to grow your fund, and who is the fund manager is the most important factor to be sucess in investing unit trust. Check the fund track record for up to 5 till 10 years.

Another factor we need to take into account while investing trust funds is the fees incurred. If the trust fund is to benchmark with certain index like KLCI Index, but the trust fund's return is equal or less than the benchmark, so after deducting the fees the return from the trust fund is indeed lower than the benchmark. Then it is recommended to buy index fund.

agree that this is not the place discuss TA, but since alredi started, I join in the fun too
regarding the one who started TA, if the system is as good as its claims, might as well play futures
however, his nickname does not seem to agree with charts presented, now go to new high, precaution is necessary unless play breakout
but a minor pullback, does create a safer buy low entry level

atm, agree with his assessment coz I advocate buy high, sell higher! but be ready when market turns, imo depends on the policy in us (nov2)
I personally invest in pbb growth fund, I DO not invest regularly, BUT I invest after pullback is confirmed & enter when there is a doji

http://www.publicmutual.com.my/application...erformance.aspx
http://www.publicmutual.com.my/application...erformance.aspx

from the above, ewm moves similar to klse, then can compare other etfs - use eyes & google to research on how to find them


s&p500 = spy, bolehland = ewm


spy vs VGSIX‎ Vanguard REIT Index Inv


spy vs VSMGX‎ Vanguard LifeStrategy Moderate Gr Inv


spy vs VWELX‎ Vanguard Wellington Inv


ewm vs WisdomTree Middle East Dividend (GULF)


ewm vs iShares MSCI Australia Index (EWA)


ewm vs Vanguard Total Stock Market ETF (VTI)


ewm vs Vanguard FTSE All-World ex-US ETF (VEU)


ewm vs Vanguard REIT Index ETF (VNQ)


ewm vs Vanguard Total Bond Market ETF (BND)


ewm vs CurrencyShares Japanese Yen Trust (FXY)


ewm vs Global X/InterBolsa FTSE Colombia 20 ETF (GXG)


ewm vs iShares Barclays 3-7 Year Treasury Bond (IEI)


ewm vs ProShares Ultra Silver (AGQ)


ewm vs Direxion Daily Real Estate Bull 3X Shrs (DRN)


seek & u shall find

I believe TA is not actually an Universal Tool that you can practise throughout the world.

If you are just a US investor , then TA could be quite close in the sense IF there is a big correction in Malaysia market, it does not have any impact on your US stocks by using TA.

However, on the reverse IF you spot some bullishness of some Malaysia stocks , but there happens to be a big DOW correction, most likely the bullish TA charts would be diminishing or turning into negative.

BTW, Malaysia is quite a small market, even the sharks ( manipulators ) would be able to create a Bullish Chart with the purpose of dumping their stocks. IF TA analysts shout for bullishness of a stock, maybe time for you to take profit, or on a stand by to sell out.

Frankly I also wonder anyone is making good money by using purely TA on Malaysia Future Market ?

Again , Dow is also impacted by the unemployment reports ?

So TA is not actually standing alone, correct me if I am wrong.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Oct 10 2010, 05:43 PM

I'm not sure how TA works nor I interested to know about TA. I'm also investing currently but I don't rely on TA. I'm more tend to buy and hold for long term and my investing strategy is value investing. Since I'm buying for long term, I don't think TA will work for my style. Please take note that the world 2nd richest man Warren Buffet is the only genuine investor in the top 2 richest (he could be now or in the future to be out of 10 most richest since he is donating most of his wealth), but he does not depend on TA at all. He follows Benjamin Graham's advice strictly as Graham had once said "Investing in a stockmarket is most intelligent it is most business like". If you are getting into a good business by spending RM20 mil and sell it the next day for RM22 mil and make a 10% profit, and it is indeed what technical analyst will prompt to do so. But I believe if Warrent Buffet works in this way by selling 10% profit each time within short term period, I don't think he would be as what he is today.

Since it's the thread for those who have questions on how to utilise their cash instead of putting into FD, apparently most of them are beginners in financial world so we should give recommendation or suggestion to be simple and neutral. Don't have to say TA or FA or whatever other investing methods is more good for doing investment.

Moreover, the discussion about the what so-called TA or FA doesn't seems match the topic in this thread. Thus I think it's appropriate to move those TA discussion to those investment thread.

This post has been edited by kinwing: Oct 10 2010, 05:56 PM

I have read up on value investing, wb & FA stuff. but is graham as rich as wb?
more likely wb was at the right place & at the right time, something like li ka shing
otherwise, all of graham followers occupy the forbes top 100 rich list

do u even follow wb method 100% or r u just cherry picking?
furthermore, y dun u just follow what he buys & maybe can be the top 2 richest also
instead of reinventing the wheel & putting wb concept into bolehland context, it does save the work & hassle just to follow wb

doesn't want to set aside the collateral, and wants existing derivatives contracts to be exempted from the rules.
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Inves...px?post=1747221

he states that his favorite holding period is forever
http://www.fool.com/investing/value/2010/0...fett-sells.aspx

wb does buy & sell, he does not keep EVERYTHING long term, remember ptr?
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Warren-Buffe...104421.html?x=0

anyway, I not here to start a topic on criticizing wb! just that some of his followers r hypocrites, only follow certain things abt wb & not follow in full
I do not take things at face value after staying in bolehland for so long. if govt says vote bn is good for rakyat, do u do / dun agree?
I read those anti wb to get a better perspective on investment & trading, which leads me to TA & etc

for bolehland, I just buy & hold those 1st liner & good track record unit trust. I dun trade much in bolehland
there are topics on securities, properties, unit trusts/mutual funds and fixed deposit, if someone would just use the search function
well, u can help those newbies out by showing them the way how u tackle this topic & get this topic back in track

I didn't realise how hot this topic can be. How did we get sidetrack into TA huh? hehe..

Anyway, not to say whose right and wrong, just to sum it up, when it comes to personal financial management, different people have different knowledge, experience, perception, style, personality, etc. I guess what is right for someone may not be right for others. And it shows in this thread. There are some basic principles that applies to all but the approcah can still vary.

Some prefer Fundamental Analysis, some Technical Analysis, it is indeed part of financial management. And I guess there are very few who have spent years and years trying both and are qualified to judge both. I am definitely not one of those, so I reserve any criticism on Fundamental Analysis.

I guess I was seen as coming off too strong initially, such that it triggered quite some reaction, my apology. At the same time, ithe discussion has given me some important points I need for my presentation, thank you.
I welcome further enquiry as some of you have done through emails or even open minded discussion. I do appreciate that.

I look forward to participate in more open minded discussion.