let me guess.. its Chistmas Island???

No. It somewhere else. But the place potential growth are awesome.

Let me make a wild guess... GreenZone/Lungs in UK kinda thing?
Shared plots of land.. means shared voting to make decision to exit?
Raw land and rezoning application.. if not approved how?
Cost of rezoning applications (1 time may not go through mar right, thus several times) how much and how is it distributed?
How to know whether rezoning probability is high or low %?
Who is doing the rezoning applications?

Wow.. simple..
Sorry ar, i'm a simple logic thinker and those ain't simple.

BTW, since U are so confident about this program, how much have U personally invested in it?
How much $ and how much % of your net worth?
How much loan did U take out at what %pa interest to make even more $ from this program?

Well, is a DST FH landed properties endlot with extra land , c/w individual title. It located on boader of KV, thatwise still very cheap 8-9 year ago. RM600k shall be median price.

Btw, you said that "house not generate cash flow" is not consider a Investment Asset, so we shouldn't take it into Asset Allocation?

But, my thought is althrough in short to medium term, i need to fork out some money to top up the different. In long term, once i finish the instalment, the Investment Asset will give me subtantial amount of ROI ( saving and profit due to appreciation)

This post has been edited by youngman28: Apr 10 2012, 06:08 PM

You're right - traditionally, homes are considered "Assets" coz can appreciate and sell or re-finance to free up cash.

However, like i mentioned,
IF U sell your home U need to buy another right?
Nearly at the same time right - unless U move into one of your investment properties lar, which then becomes your home, not investment assets.
It's a swap of near equivalent value UNLESS one moves to a remote village where housing is 100%+ cheaper

Thus, in my point of view (aiya not bank's finance accounting lar), a home is not an INVESTMENT asset.
Again, i didn't say it is not an asset, i said it's not an investment asset if U look at investment assets as things putting $ into your pocket.

For sure banks and other financial institutions want me to believe my home is an investment asset, BUY THE BIGGEST I CAN AFFORD as i can't run away from paying myself/asset mar right? Guess what - follow the money. Banks & financial institutions make $ from me - my home loans being one of the biggest chunk of slavery to them, IF i buy the best-est and biggest. Keep in mind, maintenance cost as well for a home yar. Buying is one thing, maintenance is another.

Again, just my POV yar. I definitely am not right if U take principles of accounting into the play. Take logic and follow the money, then what i think makes sense

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Apr 10 2012, 06:23 PM

Ohh...seems like this thread is abit out of topic...thought is about financial management? hmm..

if you really confident on it why share with us the profit since our capital maybe smaller and many ppl have to gather while decision making is kinda complicated. ...... if i were you i will pawn all my assets, equities, gold (physically or paper gold), vehicle and borrow form financial institute will be a better choice right? if above also dun have can ask ur immediate family, relatives friends to sailang and do it ..... no need to share with the unknown ..... and there is SHARKS around or u the ONE?

MK,

Maybe i mis-lead you. I have 2 properties, one is for own stay ( which is fully paid), anothers one is that i mention here. The one for own stay, i not consider it as investment. What i refer is another house which i currently held.

This post has been edited by youngman28: Apr 10 2012, 06:55 PM

eh? that other one which U rented out as Kindie is considered Investment Asset mar as per my example replied to U in my first post

---

Added on April 10, 2012, 7:02 pmAh.. please do share your thoughts on what is personal financial management sir.
and er.. why out of topic?
OR your posting was just so that U can have your HUGE "INTERNET MARKETING" signature seen? It seems so since most of your other posts in other threads/topics also does not rhyme or reason

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Apr 10 2012, 10:41 PM

WMK has been using rather kind words in his response.

BTW, are you new in the company? If yes, please read the following links:
1) http://www.bnm.gov.my/index.php?ch=8&pg=14&ac=1779

2) http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/...itable-uk-land/

3) http://ctchoolawkl.blogspot.com/2011/01/uk...heme-shock.html

4) http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...2723&sec=nation

There are a few other "land banking" companies that invest in overseas...I will not name them.

I think a number of the "seasoned" forumers in this thread are well aware of the above. They are trying their best to convince/prevent fellow forumers from PMing you. This thread is meant to protect and grow fellow forumers' hard-earned $$$. Thank you for your attention.

---

Added on April 10, 2012, 10:42 pmHi froz3nnoob, your question is rather open-ended. I am struggling to figure out how to respond to your questions. There is NO easy way (even if I know an easy way, I won't tell you or have to charge you "an arm and a leg" to tell you). You have to educate yourself in basic investment concepts (such as risk-return, different asset types and etc.) and have to KNOW yourself what is suitable.

Why educate yourself first? I have seen numerous cases of "ignorant" or greedy people LOSING their hard-earned money in investments - it's painful for me to see how IGNORANT some people can be (I have volunteered in overseas credit/financial literacy counselling (like AKPK in M'sia)). You have to learn the basics of investing. For example, if someone offers you a low risk - high return investment...you have to ask yourself - is it possible??? In fact, I have seen more HIGH RISK - low return investment/financial products in the market than low risk-low return (like FD).

So long-winded, ah. A couple points on investments from me: (i) know thyself - only invest in something that you can sleep well at night regardless how the investment is doing (health is more impt) (ii) there is no quick, easy way to make fast money (yes, there are very SMART and lucky people - but I am not one of them) - if an investment looks too good to be true, it probably is.

The following article is an okay read for a start (with plenty of good links): http://www.investopedia.com/articles/00/08...p#axzz1reFEBVcj

NB: shares/equities, unit trusts, commodities (like gold & silver) and properties are the more common types of investments.

This post has been edited by chabalang: Aug 10 2012, 10:27 PM

Hehhe - bro Chabalang, i am a bit slow lar, especially when these fellows use big words, confusing simple investment methods AND hot women (plus food!)
Not purposely "kind" to such a great investment opportunity.

Been to a few of these - nice food, hot women - unfortunately (or fortunately for me) i have a bad habit of reducing stuff to 1s and 0s and calculate them in Excel before making any decisions
Missed the chances to make deca-millions.. dang.. guess i have to settle for millions only

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Apr 10 2012, 10:45 PM

" Money & Risk management (spend less, save more, just enough term insurance)"

One of the biggest mistake made in this forum, is that often advisers here advise people to buy just enough term insurance. BTW, term insurance carries an expired date, whereas life needs to go on unpredictably.

Can any advisers here tell me when is their exact time to leave this world ?

Most likely it is to cover up their inadequate knowledge in this area.

Those so called Financial Planners do not associate themselves well with the insurance subject often give out these advices.

Even in their professional exams, insurance is taught to be unimportant , aka just have " enough" term insurance would do. The word " enough " is for current or for the future ? To me it is just like saving for a retirement, though not exactly the same.

By the time , we find out we need more such as health insurances ( just an example, could be more ) , then come the problems of un insurable for some health reasons. Even the very rich and lovable people like Steve Jobs could leave us prematurely.

Would you start to save when retirement is just approaching ? So likewise , Insurance is another Time Purchasing Tool in hand. Even IF a person is very committed to go through a retirement saving plan may receive a call from God along the journey.

And BTW, financing planning is geared towards the goals of that particular individual per se, and not for own self interest of the adviser . Often Goals needed to be motivated to be achieved, and not setting many roadblocks to kill them.

Just my view.

Best Regards to all.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 11 2012, 11:34 AM

For personal financing n development, is it good to buy life insurance at young age? Cause the commitment is liken to very long term savings

No advisor here per se but a calculative bugger . Hey, get ye hands off me money!
BTW, being er.. suckered by insurances with participating / whole life is one of my main reasons for learning PFP (Personal Financial Planning) and bouncing ideas/experiences in forums.

-------------
Just to share my experience with "whole life" vs term life, both 3Ds (death, disease, disability) from the same insurance company, Prudential. Please note - not against Prudential or any other insurance companies, they are there for a reason AND BUSINESS.

1. 1999 - bought a $150K coverage 3D "whole life" participating insurance from Prudential.
Monthly premium $300

2. 2001 - as my ex did not want to work anymore (ie. no salary/income), i had to cover more in case i kick the bucket ahead of time.
The extra to cover was $750K. I checked with my PRU agent my options and the most cost effective was term life, $310

3. Imagine if i did the "whole life" to cover $750K, what would my additional premium be monthly?
Simple calculation is $750K/$150K *$300 = approximately $1,500 extra per month
VS
$310 for term up to 55.
------------

Another experience - AIA. Bought when i was 19 going to 20 (1992)
1. "Forced savings" - what to do, younger & stupider + sold by a relative.
2. Was given the hoo hah about 6%pa returns, critical year 10th or 11th year and i won't need to pay liao.
3. 12 years down the road, when i called AIA to inquire about "needing or not needing" to continue monthly payment, i was told i need to continue paying.
Ok... how long more? AIA said 5 years.
Ok... 5 years more then for sure i don't need to pay anymore right? The sum is big enough to generate $xxx based on y%pa to cover?
No - not for sure.
Hello...?! This was during a bull run in the 1990s (pre 1997/1998) for those who are too young to know. FD was hitting 12%pa!
and my "investment" didn't even hit 6%pa? Wonder fool - the fool being me. Forced savings / investing my arse
-------------

a. Thus, which would a logical human being choose to use for covering / transferring risk - term or whole life/participating?
Mind U, the main idea is risk management for me, NOT transferring $ / inheritance by-passing taxes and stuff like the super-rich.

b. When i reach retirement age, why the heck would i want life insurance as i DON'T have a working income?
My plan is to be self insured by then as generally, all the premiums paid if i continued on will be as good as self-insuring + insurance companies expenses & profits

c. SKY 1809, for a person stating that most of the posting shared here (mind U, it's our POVs and opinions, not 100% gospel truths) are "Most likely it is to cover up their inadequate knowledge in this area", please share your calculations & reasoning lar.
+Stating items like "dunno when will die" and other stuff is not a good enough reason for me to pay 5X more for coverage than required. I'd rather take that $ and invest it myself.
+BTW, do U actually know how insurance works and that insurance companies are in it for a profit?
+Actuarial science and probabilities - at the end of the day, all the insurance premiums we pay are, at the end of the, nearly / actually self insuring AND the insurance companies' profits and operation costs.
+Are U the super rich portion of the rakyat that actually uses insurance as a savings and transfer of wealth vehicle?
+I think U are smarter than the average Joe since U seem to be active in the Stocks topic - have U actually sat down and calculated the costs of term insurance (say a block of years up to 55 or 60) VS cost of participating/whole life insurance? Take the cost difference and compound them at 6%pa only (bond funds - simple) and...?
+Given limited resources for average Joes like me (of course others may be playing at another level lar, like U), i need to allocate my resources AND be able to have enough coverage to transfer risks that i cannot absorb for now... UNTIL i build up my pile of assets. So, do U mean that term insurance is not good for that? Why? Coz it is "gone" and "wasted" unlike "cash balance" participating/whole life insurances?
+Do U know the ridiculous amount of % they give us for the first 5 years for our "investment"/"participating" portion of our premium?

Again, i've no bone to pick with U but the way U state things like "dunno how long will live / die" and thus "insure like heck"?
Using Steve Jobs as an example? U gotta kidding me dude - that fler can MORE THAN SELF INSURE.
Bottom line, in my opinion, experience and actual execution - term insurance, IN GENERAL, is the best bang for the buck to cover average Joes like me.

Share your real numbers and experience - pls dont use dunno when kaput and stuff. Those sounds like FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Denial) - where super sales people use to CONvince when logic can't prevail. Mind U - i'm not assuming you're an insurance agent yar. I just want to know why / where U coming from, thus expand/learn from your experiences/views - not just the example U already gave

---

Added on April 11, 2012, 2:34 pmBro - IMHO, insurance is to cover your risks and transfer them to another until U can cover it yourself.
Please do not be bull-kaka-ed into thinking insurance is for investing and savings... UNLESS U have several deca-millions and are doing estate planning (to bypass certain laws/rules/people).

Then again, U may prefer to pay for the "privilege" like some people, it's your money, your life, your choice - no right/wrong.

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Apr 11 2012, 02:54 PM

Agree to what munkeong mentioned

Mr. Wong,

I did pity you for not making any claims during the years u purchase those insurances. For me personally , a few claims of more than 10K a claim while I was in the hospital , and one big one for my wife too.

I would say you are just the unlucky one to have such a good health during those years. I pray you to be in good health so u could continue to make some noises here and there.

BTW , I have not come across any pure term insurance of 50 years or more . If u happen to find one, I am sure it is going to be more expensive than Whole Life non par. Max term pure life is about 35 years or so, and just slightly cheaper than Whole Life Non Par.

And for term insurance , one needs to cover 5 years instead of 50 years if he could foresee he could die within the 5 years period.

So why buying a 50 years term then ? the yearly premium would be high as Whole Life Non Par, could be a waste, right ?

And Pure term life ins normally do not pay upon major illness unless upon death. And to cover permanent disability , at higher diff pricing. Health insurance is another branch most of the time, but could be purchased with a Life Insurance.

Honestly, u think buy term insurance and invest the rest works most of the time, as there is a guarantee for returns for non Malay ? At at what risk factor , buying Bonds no risk at all ? What about Greek Bonds ? Lehman Brothers mini Bonds got near zero value. and hope to get 12% for FD again. Many got nightmares for putting money into Koperasi just cos someone preached better in term of returns than the banks.

BTW, US treasury is paying very little , could be less than a life insurance , but it is still an asset allocation tool too.

So long on paper, u could not foresee a claim , then it is a waste , right? Then why buy car insurance then, how many % chance of an accident happened to u ?

And all the calculations based on one important factor , death ( if not purchased with permanent disability ) .

How sure everyone u talk to is so lucky as u ? It could be someone so unlucky like me.

Best Wishes, Mr Wong. Long Life and good health always.

And btw, it is your plan , and make sure it works well for others too.

Do not disappoint their family members in time to come.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 11 2012, 05:47 PM

Let me make it clear from the start - I am not "picking a bone with you". I am here to provide fellow forumers more information, and let them think and decide for themselves.

1) "One of the biggest mistake made in this forum...advise people to buy just enough term insurance" - there is NO right or wrong (or which is better/worse) - there are pros and cons associated with (i) buy term and invest the rest (ii) buy life. Different people have different needs. For some people who are savvy with investments - it will be better for them to buy term insurance. For people who cannot invest properly on their own or need "forced savings", life insurance MAY be more suitable.

2) "Even in their professional exams, insurance is taught to be unimportant" Have you taken CFP or CHFC examinations before? Insurance is a FULL module for CFP certification: http://www.fpam.org.my/fpam/certification-...ation-syllabus/. The Risk Management and Insurance Planning syllabus cover: http://www.fpam.org.my/fpam/wp-content/upl...-2010-FINAL.pdf

3) This use of "Can any advisers here tell me when is their exact time to leave this world ?" and "may receive a call from God along the journey." - sounds Familiar. I think one of my colleagues got a cold call from an insurance agent/(aka financial planner) talking on "contract with God and etc." - my colleague gave the agent a GOOD scolding and the few of us at his office were

4) I AGREED with "your financing planning is geared towards the goals of that particular individual per se, and not for own self interest of the adviser . Often Goals needed to be motivated to be achieved, and not setting many roadblocks to kill them." It's human nature to "take care of self-interest" - I do not blame advisers for trying to earn more commissions/fees but I believe consumers can be MORE EDUCATED in their financial planning/literacy to know/evaluate what is suitable or not for themselves.

5) For myself, currently I only have medical insurance (so far, I have only taken a short-duration term insurance to cover my first mortgage loan in my younger days - just in case, I am gone and my wife may have not enough $$ to pay off the loan). It's a long and complicated story how one should handle risk management/insurance planning (my family and I believe in self-insurance - I make sure my family will have enough $$$ if I am gone). Nevertheless, what is applicable for me may not be suitable for others. There is still a NEED for life insurance for people who do not know or do not want to spend time/effort to manage/invest their own money and need to have "forced savings". What I do not like about life insurance is the commission/fees/charges earned by the agents/insurance companies. Yes, insurance companies/agents hate me for that.

The debate on "Buy Term and invest the rest" vs "Life insurance" will continue to linger...(this post is getting too long)

P.s. the following links are written by someone who is well-versed in insurance (he was CEO of one of S'pore largest insurance coy for 30 years). Yes, he is trying to sell his book but his blog has valuable info on insurance in Singapore (M'sia is not that diff.) - caveat: he can be controversial at times.

http://tankinlian.com/admin/file.aspx?id=170
http://tankinlian.com/admin/file.aspx?id=589

This post has been edited by chabalang: Aug 10 2012, 10:27 PM

It is quite a simple minded person to follow ( writer of the book ) his words wholesomely,without talking about risk factor involved in investments and without giving any statistics to prove illnesses and the costs could be safely ignored .

A very shallow thinker trying to sell his books , suppressing the risks and, misleading the goodies of the investments per se.

Check the facts of Nikko ( as mentioned by the writer to be trustworthy ) and u know what I mean :-

The Nikko Securities Company, the Japanese brokerage house, said yesterday that it would cut salaries of its executives as punishment for the company's involvement in a payoff scandal. The reduction will be applied to 36 high-placed officials for about two and a half months until the Finance Ministry's administrative penalties have been lifted. For instance, salaries of its chairman and president will be cut by 30 percent. Earlier this month, the ministry suspended Nikko from conducting equities transactions for its own accounts and underwriting new public bonds

http://www.nytimes.com/keyword/nikko-securities

Could be another Omega Securities if one is not careful

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 11 2012, 06:01 PM

Eh, Sky, don't lar Mr Mr. Me thinks we're from the same generation
BTW, FYI - i did claim for my ex's hospitalization and surgery before (cyst in the ovarian tubes + fibrosis), thus don't "pity" me hhehe.

Thanks for your prayers and i wish U & your love ones well too. Well, of course make noise here & there lar - we talk, we bounce ideas, energy right?

Ok, down to the discussions & opining

1. BTW , I have not come across any pure term insurance of 50 years or more . If u happen to find one, I am sure it is going to be more expensive than Whole Life non par. Max term pure life is about 35 years or so, and just slightly cheaper than Whole Life Non Par.

But there is and er.. bro, i said term up to 55.
My bad - up to 55 to me means my 55 years of age/old (er.. 35 years from 20?), which by then i'd have no salary income, thus should be having enough assets to cover/self-insure.
And.. slightly cheaper?
Good lord - bro, 5 TIMES cheaper AND i was using my "younger aged bought in whole-life policy" to compare against term life, from the same insurer wor.
If that's "slightly cheaper" to U.. dang man, i envy your cash flow and assets, a whole different level

2. And for term insurance , one needs to cover 5 years instead of 50 years if he could foresee he could die within the 5 years period.
So why buying a 50 years term then ? the yearly premium would be high as Whole Life Non Par, could be a waste, right ?

er.. personally, i don't think anyone can forsee the future mar, thus i really don't understand this portion. Sorry yar - caffeine's running low in my veins

3. And Pure term life ins normally do not pay upon major illness unless upon death. And to cover permanent disability , at higher diff pricing. Health insurance is another branch most of the time, but could be purchased with a Life Insurance.

But but.. i found it and from the same insurer AND it's 5 times cheaper than my whole life participating insurance which i bought 2 years before wor.
How can this be? Perhaps your insurance agents have been er.. giving U non-options?

4. Honestly, u think buy term insurance and invest the rest works most of the time, as there is a guarantee for returns for non Malay ? At at what risk factor , buying Bonds no risk at all ? What about Greek Bonds ? Lehman Brothers mini Bonds got near zero value. and hope to get 12% for FD again. Many got nightmares for putting money into Koperasi just cos someone preached better in term of returns tan the banks.
Heheh - ok.. guarantees. Nothing is guaranteed other than death and taxes (or so they say).
Did i say buying bonds = 0 risk?
Greek bonds? woooo scary.. bro, check out simple data lar - PBOND, AMBOND, etc. for the past 10 to 15 years. sigh.. dont lar talk only about black swan stuff. Probabilities bro, probabilities. Heck, we ARE talking about the biggest probability-based industry right, INSURANCE.

I stated FD getting 12%pa during 1990s as a comparison to the shockingly bad insurance "returns" i got from my AIA whole-life insurance lar. Aiyo - U understand the comparison usage boh? I did NOT state the 12%pa FD returns as an aim for future OR bonds.

5. BTW, US treasury is paying very little , could be less than a life insurance , but it is still an asset allocation tool too.
Definitely - i totally agree with U on this. Heck, i'm stupid enough to plonk $ into annuities for the FD-ish returns + tax relief + as a sub-asset allocation, with a bit of insurance thrown in. Thus, need no buts here

6. So long on paper, u could not foresee a claim , then it is a waste , right? Then why buy car insurance then, how many % chance of an accident happened to u ?
And all the calculations based on one important factor , death ( if not purchased with permanent disability ) .
Bro - when did i say insurance is a waste? I stated it's a needed item for managing risk by transferring the risk to a pool (insurance companies) UNTIL one can manage the risk / self-insure. Thus... huh? on this statement of your

7. How sure everyone u talk to is so lucky as u ? It could be someone so unlucky like me.
Heheh - my dear Sky, are U sure i am lucky? Everyone seems to be luckier than "me" in everyone's view. ie. most people will think everyone else is luckier than themself.
Have U ever thought about why some "seems" luckier?
Perhaps they actually aren't actually lucky, BUT they learned + researched, planned ahead and executed a plan? Being prepared to handle risks WHILE growing assets, health, etc?
Bro - i was only 7 months gestation and since birth, badly asthmatic + my father worked as a low level Govt servant (mum is a housewife).
Thus, how "lucky" do U think i am? Health-wise, i've been in/out of hospitals due to asthma and boyish "indestructibility" (or so i thought when younger and severely dumber lar ).

That doesn't mean i or anyone like me should be plonking my hard earned $ blindly into whole-life participating insurances when there are other options right?
BTW, let me be a bast**d and state the obvious - NO AMOUNT OF INSURANCE WILL HELP IF ONE IS UNHEALTHY OR BROKE. Note - broke - how to pay for insurance premium? Or pay the insurance premium and suffer no healthy food/ shelter / etc?


8. And btw, it is your plan , and make sure it works well for others too.
Do not disappoint their family members in time to come.
Dude - it is my own plan for myself, why should it work well for others too? I'm just stating the options, which, most insurance SALES agents dont bother. Note - i do NOT SELL insurances, investment vehicles, etc. for a living. I'm an eKuli - an IT guy doing all sorts of work thrown at me by my bosses. Yes, i AM learned and qualified to sell investment vehicles but that is for my loved ones and my own "savings on costs" and learning/usage of data.
Thus, i am calling a spade a spade truly from my heart and mind, WITHOUT any hidden agenda.

Hehe - touch wood, thus far, my plans are similar or in-line with God's / Nature's / etc.'s plans for me and my service to my loved ones.

I pray too that U do find good options (insurances, stocks, bonds, properties, exercise routines, good food, etc.) that works well holistically for U and your loved ones too

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Apr 11 2012, 06:11 PM

Wong Sifu,

Whole Life NOn Par and Whole Life Par make quite diff in term of premium and u participate in their profits.

If u want to buy a BMW , then cannot really compare the price to let say a Kancil mar, in term of cost factors and returns.

I think we are not on the same wave bands, but I think Whole Life Non Par ( the one I talk about ) offers better values than just pure life term insurance , for a slightly higher price, just affordable to many.


Stand a good chance to outperform the insurance co if you do not surrender the policy.

Regards

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 11 2012, 06:17 PM