by the way, God is never known to anyone yet. do u describe God as him/her or what/who? as what we should know by now is about how a person conduct his life now and how truthful he is now rather than centralized everything to God. By the way, u mean Creator kot?

Last post before I sleep. I really love threads like these.

Just to be clear, I'm far from being a real buddhist/taoist. I'm far too ambitious and an ******* to actually practice any of the teachings they offer. Apa boleh buat, I'm only 20++. I like taoism and buddhism, but at the moment I don't live up to it.

Don't call me out on that ya?

Perhaps after my hormones dies down when i grow older, I can get more serious into really practicing the way of cultivating my life.

the singing was conducted by some college students with band and 2 vocal singers during the wesak day if my memory serves me right , 3 years back i guess. it's not chanting. it's a performance for the audience there with VIPS. So they sing out loud with the name of Lord... The tune and the....name of lord... sound de ja vu to me instantly but i doubt many of them who never step into the chapel before will never had this synching coming straight to them.

but buddhism believe that things happen when the appropriate requirements are there, and will be gone when the requirement dispersed. hence no creator right?

not bad for a young guy like u with a cup of emptiness readily to be fill again just like Bruce Lee said. his philosophy in buddhism alter Wushu and expand beyond Hong Kong.

Actually, the deities are firmly established in Buddhism. The Buddha taught about 31 planes of existence, and he told us there are 6 celestial heavens (sensual desire) and 20 brahma worlds.

It is a custom for buddhist to transfer merits to the deities after they perform good deeds. The Buddha also asked the deities to protect the humans.

Now, when you actually practice Buddhism, what do you strive for? Do you worship the deities? What is your ultimate goal? I interpret the deities as the state of mind. They were suppose to be taken literally.

EDIT: I think it is best for me to explain a bit of my background so it is easier for you to answer my questions. I have a background in Qi Gong. (not the qi gong you see on TV, TV is all BS) The body and the mind is cultivated and practiced as one. You must practice both of these without fail. Now in Buddhism, it is vastly different. Unless you're from Shao Lin, the only part you train is your mind. This is why many great masters simply "die". The concept of Buddhism during practice is that the body is simply an obstacle. Based on my understanding of buddhism and qi gong, they are going for the same goal when it comes to the state of mind. Do typical buddhists go for this? Is this your ultimate goal? Or do you simply study what is available in buddhism? Since buddha's actual words and teachings were not directly from himself, from our point of view (in qi gong), the deities and realms are meant to be taken literally. They represent the state of mind. If you're wondering, I do actually think the later followers were not exactly right when it comes to interpreting what buddha really meant about the deities.

Problem, should buddhists really care for deities, the realms of existence, the concept of heaven and hell, the karma and so on? These are just the tip of the iceberg. There are far important issues in buddhism no?

Don't quote me on this, I've read this and heard this from a qi gong practitioner. The books journey to the west(written by a taoist) and the book The Investiture of the Gods (written by a monk) was a spat between taoism and buddhism. Now if we assume this anecdote as true, the books have pretty "imaginative" items. However, again it can be interpreted as a practitioner's state of mind. Should these things be taken literally? This is my question.

EDIT2: An interesting Zen Buddhism quote: “遇神杀神，遇佛杀佛”。 Translation: If you meet god, you kill god, If you meet buddha, you kill buddha. This sentence implies during the transitional stage of meditation, one will experience many "imaginative" things. Qi Gong says that these are "projections" from yourself and should never be taken serious nor should one be attached to it. Based on this, shouldn't we have taken the concept of deities literally?

This post has been edited by LittleGhost: Jan 19 2012, 11:08 AM

It would take a very long time for me to explain. I will just summarize the Tipitaka is regarded as the authoritative texts in Theravada. Some scholars suggest the words inside them might have been spoken by the historical buddha himself.

Well i'm not questioning the legitimacy of the text. I'm questioning the interpretation and the importance placed on such knowledge instead of actual practice.


Now being one of the better known buddhists in the forum, you seem to be well read in the typical texts. My question for you would be thus, how do you practice buddhism? Do you simply learn? Or is it real practice to achieve greater heights in the state of mind your primary goal? Do you practice like a zen buddhist?

Sorry for the short answer, bit busy just now.

Anyway, the teachings of buddhism consist of
(1) learning the wording of the doctrine (pariyatti),
(2) practising it (patipatti),
(3) penetrating it (pativedha) and realising its goal.

So we do need to have some basic foundation in Buddhism which constitute no.1 (acquiring of knowledge). If we don't anything about buddhism, what do we practice right? We have to know at least the basic stuffs in buddhism. The contention here is, just how much do we need to know? The entire Tipitaka and its commentaries? Not necessary, but it's always good to know more about Buddhism so that we are able to tell other about this Dhamma. Learn enough to get an overview of what Buddhism is and what it is not - to me that level is enough (for me la).

The second part is THE most important aspect of buddhism - the practice. How do we practice?

Dana (generosity), Sila (morality) and Bhavana (mental cultivation). So to practice we also need to know a bit about the right way to practice, hence the (1) plays some role here too.

Is knowing about Devas (divine beings) and 31 realms of existence important for practice ? No.

but that does not mean the Buddha did not talk about the devas in the discourses. He did in many occasions. "teacher of gods and men". Humans were not the only ones he taught his dhamma during his ministry. There were beings from the Deva worlds and the Brahma worlds who came to see the Buddha and asked his advice. They normally did that during the second watch of the night 10pm - 2am in the morning.

A person cannot claim to be omniscient and fully enlightened if he does not the universe and all its realms and inhabitants. "knower of the worlds" is such salutation to our Buddha.

As to your question, I try to practice Buddhism through Generosity, Morality and Mental cultivation. My aim?

Stream Entry. (sotapatti magga)

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Jan 19 2012, 01:06 PM

Right after his death, Ven Mahakasappa was alarmed when he heard a certain monk telling other monk that they could discard the Vinaya discipline and the austerity imposed by the Buddha.

And Subhadda, the late-received one, said to the Bhikkhus: "Enough, Sirs! Weep not, neither lament! We are well rid of the great Samana. We used to be annoyed by being told, 'This beseems you, this beseems you not.' But now we shall be able to do whatever we like; and what we do not like, that we shall not have to do."[3]

Read about the Buddhist councils and you may have an idea about the evolution of the scriptures.

All deities are mortal , but their lifespan is way longer than humans. When their kamma runs out, they will die too and reincarnate.

In buddhism, the chief of the devas is known as Sakka. He presides over the Tavatimsa heaven and rule over the Cathumaharajika realms (abode of the 4 heavenly kings) too.

soul2soul, have u heard of Kechara? what do u think of this organization?
will u suggest any other center to learn buddhism beside the brickfield one? one may got into the wrong teaching or false organisation . there's a lot of organisation out there now which provides humanitarian cause but don't get me wrong here, their intention are good but probably lost im suppose, i still believe that many temples in thailand are still very old and unlike many temples here which are built with high cost . There are lots of good monks in Thailand that still carrying a very simple life and moderate life which is purely the teaching of buddha. So one ought to be more careful of the mentor, the councils etc who have assimilated into the world of buddhism. You prob have known that buddhism had been cultivated for materialistic gain, politic issue and even military by zen buddhism in the past.

Yes. Because at that time nobody wanted to buy papers..so this businessman pretended to be dead...and his wife burnt papers for him... 3 days later he miraculously came back alive and he told the villagers that by burning the papers he cleared of his debt and the guardian of hell let him off the hook... and therefore this became one of the chinese traditions..

Have you tried to read the book by the late Ven Dhammananda? It's really a good start. If you have any queries you can always ask around or even talk to the monks or lay teachers (teachers who are not monks). Try attend some dhamma talk. Slowly you will pick up the bits and pieces of Buddhism.

If you want to learn Theravada , there are other centers in PJ. The Thai one is at Cetawan temple at Jalan Gasing.



This post has been edited by soul2soul: Jan 19 2012, 03:23 PM

thinking of it, what happen to those smart scholars like confucious and other king's men in the palace, do they buy this story ? Why there's no smart people around that challenge him before lies became truth to the point of no return?

This post has been edited by hackwire: Jan 19 2012, 05:42 PM

seem like u also avoiding some of my questions above. no problem as it's not fair to put you on the spot. thanks for the suggestion by the way and your advise is very worth it in here. i live in subang, if there's any nearby around this area will be good for me also . thanks alot soul 2 soul.

Well during ancient China everybody was very superstitious. When one village starts to believe in these stuffs, the next village will follow suit and the chain reaction will follow. For this i honestly have no answer. That is why even at this modern age of time, those mediums and bomohs still have a place in the society...although some are pure quackery but i've seen some mediums who are actually real... then again..you don't have to believe me.

i have to agree with you that i have seen medium perform on behalf of deity like dato kong and ji kong. they do have super natural power that could read your past action and what u did in the past . by reading their birth of date , they could point to your destiny and read your luck and even alter it with a stroke of a brush. i have seen how they could predict someone is having affair with another woman etc...that's a bit terrifying

This post has been edited by hackwire: Jan 19 2012, 07:55 PM

That is not so scary la... i've seen the mediums at my temple telling my relatives about their business as well.... and the 'prediction' was spot on...so whether you believe it or not it really works...