Yeah Chinese till today are still lost just like me.
Yes all your explanation above had been similary defined in wikipedia which made me push the envelope further by finding the in between where did all these praying with joss stick, paper burning, etc brought into the temple, What religion is this if it's not Tao or Buddhism? . Tao and Buddhism is a teaching and not a religion at first because buddhism even exist before Gautama Buddha in india. Gautama buddha was the one who found enlightenment if im not mistaken here.

Agama sesat I would put it as. Though it is harshly put, I can't find the proper term in english. It's mainly driven by superstition. Superstition is caused by stupidity and the lack of technology and science in the earlier periods in china.

You can't really study taoism through wikipedia. It is too heavily integrated into the chinese culture and the chinese language. You'd have to read Chinese literature and texts. There are only a handful of people in the whole china that really understands taoism and has reached the state of level where lao zi reached thousands of years ago. These people do not show their faces. They are unknown. Most people just "interpret" and "read" taoism. You can't. Taoism cannot be read, it must be practiced as well.

well....technically they are from the heavenly realms..just that people in china have the karma to spot them i guess... not too sure about this..

Well in malaysia...taoism and buddhism are already quite heavily infused with chinese culture....

I am talking about the old old oldddd days during Buddha's time where even food is hard to come by. So as a buddhist we must not be choosy. But for modern times like now, of course all monks are strictly on vegeterian diet. Especially those from the mahayana teachings.

However monks in tibet still eat meat as they need the calories to their body warm and alive. Yes they have no choice but to break the precepts. That is why the Buddha said that this world is full with suffering, or suffering exists, and why Buddhisms existed in the first place, which is to get out of the cycle of rebirth.

Both islam and christianity have a common thing at this point of time, which is they share their teachings from a book. Now this book has gone through countless generations and many many many editors and wars as well.

The teachings of the buddha of the other hand, are being memorised by hundreds of monks when the buddha died. Every once in awhile the group of monks will come together and chant his teachings to make sure that it didn't go wrong. This tradition was continued until paper was invented and every teaching was written down. Therefore it can be said that almost 90% of the teachings of the buddha (if not more) are accurate as this time of day.

That is why the teaching of the Buddha still remains the same despite the existence of many different buddhist traditions and schools.

For the killing part... it only applies to those beings with a conscious...now what are beings with consciousnesses is another deep story altogether but generally plants and microbes do not qualify as that...

Do you guys know where to find a living Zen master? Other than Japan.

according to my research buddhism , after buddha died for a long time only than some one from his own sibling who is also his disciple begin to write his teaching down and it was not written right after he died. So there's a debate of time lapse between his death and the scripture his disciple wrote which i belive like 20 years ... correct me if im wrong on the number. so if im right, the accuracy of it has now been question by some. One may not have the technology like we have today to produce a Reality TV show that could provide any accurate timeline and journals that can be time capsule for the future .

At this point I might come across as argumentative for no reason, but rest assure I'm not, there is no such thing as "taoism" in malaysia. It was neither taoism or buddhism at the first place.

To say that they are "infused" with chinese culture would be saying that there are traces of taoism and buddhism. Truth is, it is something else instead. The chinese simply tagged their own brand of religion with buddhism and taoism.

It is 民间迷信教 (common folk superstition religion), has nothing to do with taoism nor buddhism. More of a superstitious teachings that is passed down through the ancestors. IMO, the first step is actually to acknowledge the fact that there was no "infusion" at the first place.

This post has been edited by LittleGhost: Jan 19 2012, 12:36 AM

Taoism has nothing to do with deity or god. Tao De Ching is all its core teaching. Similar to buddhism, it teaches way of life.

Yes you are partly right. Nobody bothered to remember anything. It was one monk that decided that something must be done to prevent the original teachings from being diluted hence the gathering of all the top monks to recite his teachings together. But itsdefinitely not 20 years....

I am not sure about taoism but there are certainly Chinese infused culture and superstitions in Buddhism especially in those traditional temples.

the wu liang yi jing said that ' ah nan zun ze' was a man with super memory and he recall all the buddha's teachings among some great number of buddha's followers, and the buddha said to him, when you recall these teaching, you said ' it is that i heard from buddha ' , before he continue with the teaching content, so the other followers can know that the teaching is not his own teaching. anw i think he was the cousin of buddha gautama if remember correctly. how super is super, how accurate is accurate, how real is real, unless we reach the state of buddha or bodhisatva, i guess we can't go back and check if this really happen.

true.
that's the reason why i ask why buddhism shifted or expand to something else such as the songs i heard in Subang center , the band of singers really singing to the tune of Sunday Chapel. Well i been to Chapel before not because i want to.. but because it's part of the high school curricullum back than and i will never miss those hymm still ringing loud in nightmare... Maybe , im wrong here because buddhism encourage exploring the new ground and creativity .. not just sticking to one old tradition. Is this expectation from the original buddhism studies?

your name la!

My point earlier, those are not "buddhism". It was never infused. If it was, there will never be superstition in it's sub parts.

I know it is hard to understand what I'm trying to convey. This is a very huge misconception that is driven into the bones and flesh of many chinese. I was fortunate that my first few comic books during my very younger days were chai zi chongs short comics + actual text of Dao De Jing, and zen buddhism of the 六祖, I never had that misconception at all. Yes, these comics are awesome. Kids should read these.

You are right. Amanda was the reference all the monks used when they recited the teachings together.

There are no 'expectations' from Buddhism. If you think you can learn more about Buddhism from songs then by all means go ahead.

As long as the teachings touches on the four noble truths and the noble eightfold paths then it is the teachings from Gautama Buddha irregardless of the traditions and other side practices.

That depends on the objective. What is the singing for? The chant "amitabha" actually has its utility. It is meant to be chanted over and over again until there is NOTHING else in the mind and body other than the chant amitabha. This is a whole different level of concentration and being at one with yourself. Is the singing meant to do anything like this? Again, most people don't practice buddhism, they "think they do".

The core of buddhism is very pragmatic. Anything that brings you to eternal bliss will do.

These are side dressings. They are cherry picked to appear "buddhism". It is not buddhism. The "agama sesat" followers never practice any of these. The reason why one has to be clear whether it is or NOT buddhism is very important. We do not want to mislead.

If I recall correctly , the burning of paper money was originate from China. An invention of a paper businessman.

I read it somewhere in a Buddhist Magazine.

now certaily we are breaking some ground here . As u said , there is no Taoism found in malaysia so far. As for buddhism, the only real one that is still in practice is call Theravada which is now located in brickfield . This one i knew have been the first one in malaysia for many years already and if u look closer this temple is unlike any temple with very ambitious aim. the rest has been very ambitious to built dream like the Kechara intent to built big temple for World Peace.. hmm!

>implying dupe

Serious talk la mangkuk.