yes bayern. and they won it during the height of Da Kaizer's peak - 1974 - 1976 (during which he also won the WC and the European Championship with West GErmany)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Bayern_Munich

And also, Ajax won it the immediate 3 years before that - 1971 - 73 under another legend, Cruyff. Hence they also get to keep the trophy permanently and have the BOH on their sleeve.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFC_Ajax



This post has been edited by chcher: Sep 20 2010, 11:12 AM

Check out my siggie if you are looking for MU nns for pre 07. Not much left though. As damnself mentioned, its no longer in production, and we are only selling in sets for JCs to complete their collection. What we have on the thread is exhaustive though.

Next best bet is Ebay, chances are quite low too, and most likely to be in sets.

unless ur name has no "E", "O", "R", "A", "I", "U" and no need letter "1" then u can go subside and get them loose still i think.

I may sound rude here, but I must then ask the question - anyone here downloads games / songs / movies illegally or buy pirated DVD / movies etc? You dont have to answer me, just ponder on it in your heart.

(NB: the below is just my 2 cents view from a general viewpoint and from the viewpoint of my profession and is meant as healthy discussion - not directed specifically to anyone at all.)

Sometimes it is easy to make justifications like

- "oh movie and songs different, because they charge exorbitant sums - why should I pay for ori when i get the pirated for much cheaper?";

- "but pirated movies and songs, or download sites etc - they do not use child labour etc - nothing immoral about their activities - in fact they are doing the masses a favour in making entertainment accessible"

The debate will never end. But debates are debates. If the society feels strongly about rigidity of IP rules, then the proper channel is to push their reps to change the law to "legalise" piracy etc.

But if not, then the point is a straightforward one - legality of one's act.

The problem I observe most, is the lack of understanding of IP rights. The public perception will always be "Wah how come RM259 for a shirt - I can get same quality for much less". And those fakes they buy are illegal goods - but even knowing it is illegal people still buy them. It shows a lack of respect or awareness towards IP rights. For better or worse, in a capitalist society like ours, IP rights are necessary to safeguard interest of the right owners (artists, designer, clubs, etc etc) and also to promote creativity etc.

In the case of jerseys, the IP rights are various - manufacturers like Nike / Adidas have rights over their logos and brands. The club has rights over their image and crest designs etc. So any profits derived from the sales will rightfully go to these IP owners. When it comes to supporting club teams, fans will be happy to know that the funds will go to the team and that the fans are directly helping out the team they support by purchasing official merchandise.

The one thing I cannot rationalise for ppl who buy fake kits is this - they claim to be die hard fan of a club, but they are doing acts which DIRECTLY affects their so-called supported clubs adversely - by buying from fakes, you are reducing the monies that are being channelled to your team, and in the long run would definitely have a huge impact on the club - monetarily or otherwise. If one cannot afford to buy official merchandise due to its price, then the next best thing to show you are a real supporter - is to NOT BUY any at all! This way, you are not hurting your club, and you can still rightfully claim to be a true fan or supporter.There is no rule that a supporter or fan has to buy merchandise. Merchandising is just that - to sell momentos to fans and to help generate income for club - its meant to be a win win for both fan and club.

Haha before I go further, just wanted to highlihgt the fact that what we lack here in Malaysia and even Asia in general, is the understanding, and respect for IP rights. I wont even want to dwelve into the state of affiars for the music / movie industry, which is really saddening and much worse than one imagine.

Cheers

-------------

re hcosimo, yup SA is a reputable and established seller so no worries

It is advisable to bring photos of the shirt with NN (can use gettyimage) and show the staff there at ALI or R1 before applying. No one can claim to know everything on the positioning etc.

i do not look down on any person. Life is about choices we make, and about one's belief and principles. If one believe that jerseys are overpriced for example, and buys fake to send a message, I cant say much (apart from the fact that it is a civil wrong ie an infringement of the owner's trade mark and copyrights actionable at the owner's own choice - if he does not pursue, the matter ends there)

My intention of the earlier post is to highlight that it is a long road ahead for Malaysians and in fact alot of Asians (apart from possibly only Japan) in general in accepting the concept of IP rights. So we should go back to basics in educating the public on importance of respecting IP rights before the problem can be "cured". The point is not about how wealthy or poor one is. It is about not doing anything illegal.

When one cannot afford to buy a car, doesnt mean one have to go steal a car. His dignity would be intact if he had not stole the car and in fact worked harder to earn more in order to buy his own car. No one would look down on him. At least no normal decent person. People would in fact respect him for adhering to strong moral principles.

Same here. As mentioned before, if you cannot afford the originals (I doubt som since most people who buy fakes buy TONNES of fake jerseys) then don have to buy them. U don have to "show support" by wearing jerseys bearing your favourite club etc - if you are a loyal supporter who follows the team passionately, you are already a true fan - no need to prove anything to anyone. Those who buy pirated shirts and claim to be loyal fans - these are just facts that i cannot reconcile thats all - how can u claim to love a club when u r the one stabbing them?

Again i reiterate apart from the leagility of such actions, I have nothing personal against anyone purchasing fakes. I will be upfront and say I am an IP lawyer, and I just feel professionally obliged to highlight some pertinent issues here and hope to shed some light over some issues as well on IP matters. I wont be a hipocrite and say I have not bought any pirated stuffs before - i have loads of CDs from my college days (which i have since disposed) - but I am changing and beginning to learn to change my mindset, (and in the process learn to embrace and respect the laws and IP rights of others) and I have not purchased any pirated items for the past 7 years.

Anyway, its all about learning about IP and respecting IP. No malice intended in my comments, they are all made in general terms only

Cheers

here:

http://www.gettyimages.com/

no short cut bro, u have to do ur own search using certain keywords etc. one tip is instead of searching a particular players name, u can search his teammate's name instead and u may be able to find decent pictures of your intended player in the mix in the pics.

for eg, u want to find owen mu nn. u search for rooney mu, and the search may reveal pictures of rooney hugging owen with back facing camera (so u can see the nns) etc and wahla, u got ur pic. in a gist, go through it thoroughly. There is no shortcut, and this is in fact part of the fun of jersey collecting, ie researching info on a match, shirt worn, LS or SS, etc etc.

re editorial,

Well, to me the stores are entitled to charge a fee for using their services expecially when the goods are not purchased from them, cos the machine is their business tool and obviously they have to maintain the same and derive profit from it. Imagine if everyday every one goes there to print for free - it will affect business as well if ALI's purchasers have to wait for their turn there for others who did not buy from ALI to finish their printing.

On whether the charges are too much, that is for the market to dictate im afraid. Right now there are 3 big players in the klang valley ie ALI BB, RealOne and Q Line that all charges RM10 if I recall correctly. So that cannot be unfair in my view. To push for cheaper rates the consumers may want to stop going there to print and start DIY-ing perhaps, so if the 3 players want to "pull" customers back they may wish to offer cheaper rates etc. Its down to market force. Right now all 3 charges same or similar prices so cant hardly say its exhorbitant.

But having said that, I doubt the 3 players' target is to get more of such application business. In fact, the charges for application to me is more a deterrent so as to encourage costomers to buy the patches and / or shirts from their respective stores (and application is FOC if bought from their respective stores) instead of getting them elsewhere and merely going to the stores for application.

At the very least, you can maybe "nego" for waiver of the printing costs and buy some items from the store, like a cap, a ball, a boot etc. Sometimes they accomodate, since at least you have bought smoething from them. That way although u pay more for the goods, but at least u have som goods. Anyway this is for ppl who feel "imbalance" in paying the application fee

wait n see if the milan asia online store will have it later?P then shipping will be much more reasonable

haha, well like i mention, everyone has their own beliefs and moral values. No problems there and as i have said, while i do not condone fakes, i have no control over other people's choices and values. We are a free world.

The only qualification - which is a big one - is that buying and selling fakes is ILLEGAL and infringes civil rights of others, so do so at your own risk and dont blame affordability etc later on when caught or prosecuted (in the near future buyers will be as liable as sellers) - cos the choice to obey the law or not is solely in one's own hands. Unless the laws are changed, please all be aware and take note.

very nice indeed great collection there mate

re accab, as mentioned on numerous occassions, the limit for purchases of shirts etc is RM500.00 (all in, ie including postage / courier charges etc) at the rate of 30%. so just ensure your parcel is within that range. For Kitbag have to be careful because the postage u paid may not be the actual freight charges KB pays to UPS so you have to give leeway to that. RM400 - 420 of goods is on the borderline so just have to bear that risk if u want. For tax rate of other items apart from shirts u can log on to the KHDN website.

Maybe i suggest Faiz can put this up on the first page of the thread? ie FAQ on tax limit - easier as reference for all. just a thought.

This post has been edited by chcher: Oct 12 2010, 10:35 AM

yup pyro is right, it looks ok to me too from the naked eye at least. And yup, the new adidas shirt the washing tag some can be found on the collar and not necessarily on the bottom inside of the shirt anymore.

one more indication is to check the sizing details, i noticed some very good fakes still have errors on the sizing info.

sigh these fakes are getting very very good...

one way is to also touch the stripes and see the materials. I have seen one good fake - but the material used for the shoulder stripes are the thin-veiled ones while original replicas would have a thicker and more solid material. Really not easy to tell by naked eyes nowadays.

There is no sub vendor for ALI. I don wish to say more.

As i have mentioned earlier, i think looking from the pics alone, i think the shirts looks authentic, hence my comment that its hard to differentiate now on pics alone. of cos best is to see the shirt in hand and touch the material and check on the size labels etc.

I am just stating a fact that there is as far as i am aware no sub vendor for ALI. Authentic jerseys for RM180 -200 is possible if one source hard enough or do bulks etc. So price alone, and also the "ties" with a reputable store can hardly be conclusive evidence. In any event, i appreciate that you are trying to share the pics of tags etc and convince all of your shirts, which is good and should be applauded.

But then again the barca shirt u show is i assume the one u bought from Barcelona as u have mentioned, hence the price tag in Euro dollars. That still doesnt help your cause, apart from your assertion that you have "checked everything and that it is identical". Not that i distrust you (as i donno u) but that also hardly can be conclusive that what you have is authentic. Maybe you can share the actual pics of shirts u intend to sell to compare.

Having said that i do not have any blaugrana shirt so cant comment on that as well.

on second look there are some traits in the RM jersey that looks non-authentic to me.

yup agree with Faiz, it is with regret that a lot of us here are reluctant to share more due to the fact that fakers are misusing all info here for personal benefits. though we would still all try our best to verify the shirts if pics posted here.

To add on to what Faiz mentioned earlier, I cant say much if someone sells AAA shirts at AAA prices (although it is still illegal!) but it is worst when one sells AAA shirts at ori prices and passing off the same as ori!this is cheating.

re lit_ching, i share your sentiments to an extent, but what the fakers will be able to copy is just wat they see outside - sometimes no need hightech security etc, sometimes there will still be noticeable differences whcih the fakers will not do (since they mass produce) which can be sighted by fellow JCs here, those are the "tricks" one obtain and learn from each other. Sadly these can no longer be shared as freely here, if not it will make what already is a nightmare task harder.....

This post has been edited by chcher: Oct 14 2010, 02:54 PM

i still think it should be referred to not as PI as it would be misleading - these shirts (with washing tag) are not issued to players - the players' version has imprinted instrucitons.

these are more like match specification shirts with minor differences (in this case the washing tag) to diffferentaite with the real PIs.

Of cos these are semantics. At least this is also one measure to ensure these match specs are not "modified" and sold as match worn / mathc prepared.

its even more confusing now.

And since you yourself say that it might "jeopardise someone's career" does it mean the stocks are taken illegally from legitimate source and resold out for profit? If so this is as good as stealing. but then again this is just my assumption, i stand corrected.

would still need to view the shirt to be sure.