that'd be great mate. as mentioned earlie, i applaud u for your willingness to be open. Maybe can get the buyer to share pics of size labels (collar), tags, inner badge etc. I have seen good fakes with good patches too.

re calvinfc, Faiz already mentioned, those are not publicly or commercially sold. Only the kitmen and the players get it. only chance is maybe ebay or some big match worn / PI collectors site - they have contacts with kitmen etc and these are leaked for sale. Prepare to pay a higher price.

not to mention highly similar to Soccerpitstop's (from the pics at least).

http://soccerpitstop.com/ (credit Bro Iswandi7)

Waiting for your buyer to post comments / feedback and we will be able to give our views. While i stand corrected, so far nothing have convinced me yet that they are authentic.

Barcodes are no longer fool proof nowadays, althoguh still one of the first thing we should chceck prudently.

This post has been edited by chcher: Oct 15 2010, 12:14 PM

I tend to agree with lit_ching in that your conduct seems to suggest you were genuinely seeking advice (either that or u were fishing for more information to feed fakers) - either way, I would next advise you to close your sales thread failing which one of us may have to get the mods to do so.

Do me a favour and take clear pic of 1) RM Badge; 2) sizing details on collar; 3) closeup of shoulder stripes.

As for your contention ur cousin is an authorized reseller, i find it appalling, unless ur cousin can show authority he us authorized by adidas or Nike to sell the shirts at cost price, he may end up answerable to his licensers. In business it is common sense that there are certain terms as an authorized distributor yo adhere to. Unless iIt is parallel imports or he is doing it illegally. In fact if its true i would lilke to know which ALI this is wjo are co-hortshm. Anyway that's beside the point. Waitfor more pics yo verify. Thnx for ur patience.

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Added on October 16, 2010, 2:41 amAnd may I add, ALI staff are not exactly the best verifiers of authenticity, though their experience would of cos give them certain level of knowledge . Only adidas or Nike reps can conclusively say so. So in that sense their words may not carry too much weight if their reasonings are mechanical ones. My 2 cents with no disrespect meant to any ALI staff.

This post has been edited by chcher: Oct 16 2010, 03:32 AM

re kaka_89, from the recent pics you posted, I am of the view the shirts are fakes. I am very unwilling to share the information to you as I have more or less made up my mind that you are here (whether concioiusly / willingly or not i donno) to fish for information to improve the fakes which I must say are very good. Regretfully, I will be reporting your thread to Mods who I welcome to PM me for information on my conclusion, and let them decide. I can reveal to you there are 2 very visible errors in the shirts. I have had a quick discussion with some My-FJC members who share the same view.

Further, on a second look at the jerseys spread on the floor in your "cousin"'s pictures when he took the MU shirt, i can say most of them look fake to the naked eyes already based on the packaging etc.

Re kaka_89, I m really curious to know this Cuz of urs as if that's the stock he sends to retailers, then he is sending fakes. For that, I will point these out n I hope u take this as the end.

1) there is no size S in japan. And don tell me that's factory defect as it speared in a lot of fake kits I've seen recently.

2) the adidas logo should be 'clean' from the back ie there should not be one whole white backing behind the logo.

I hope u will do the necessary to remove the thread. I take ur word that u r sincere n do not wish to sell fakes again.

This post has been edited by chcher: Oct 18 2010, 01:28 AM

Bro I'm talking bout the collar sizing info. The size for Japan there states S which is wrong. European size S will be stated as M in the collar sizing info under Japan (J) - please check and tell me that is not the case. And also the back of the badge as I have mentioned.

I have been very patient with your ALI claims - I myself am a loyal patron of ALI BB and I am there almost every other week for the past god knows how many years. I have chwked your shirts against those there and this is my conclusion. Even if ur cuz is an authorized dealer ( which btw u have not proved apart from ur bare statements) does not mean he cannot pass u fakes. I am not making accusations blindly, I am just saying thy fact itself cannot possibly be a concrete proof that ur jerseys are authentic especially when all the traits ofthe shirts show that it is otherwise. In fact, most of us collectors have a strong feeling that the good fakes now are probably due to 'leaks' from official licensed factories in Thailand or china etc.

The harsh fact remains that the shirt u have is very likely a fake - u can compare those two traits at the very least. Even if u say ( doubt so as I say I have seen those traits in other previous fakes I verified hence I asked u for photos of that part) those defects are factory defects, it still doesn't warrant a rm180 price tag as reject products are usually way cheaper.

You were the one who requested for a fair verification and I think u have got one. Just hope u keep ur end of the promise.

This post has been edited by chcher: Oct 18 2010, 10:23 AM

Agree with Odieseven. We collectors are not the perfect verifier as well but at least what we have is based experience and diacussions and unless u can have official verification to explain the deficiencies, then buyers will also be skeptical and rightly so.

And I don understand ur part on what is original??? Ori means authentic manufactured by the manufacturer!! Though a valid license etc. Simple.

This post has been edited by chcher: Oct 18 2010, 09:50 AM

well guys, thanks for the vote of confidence, but I am not throwing my weight around becos of my collection etc. I stand corrected if there can be concrete evidence that my observations are wrong. But so far, there is none forthcoming, apart from unsubstantiated statements. I am afterall just a collector with no ties with manufacturers nor do i have relatives who is a licensed distributor. My oservations could be wrong and my words cannot be taken to be golde. I am stating my views based on my own observations and expereince and also actual comparison etc.

If kaka_89 wishes to lodge a report with the relevant authorities on fake jerseys being sold at the ALI outlet he mentioned, please feel free to contact me. I am by profession an Intellectual Property lawyer and I know who to connect you to in the event you wish to take that route. Bear in mind if you do not have concrete evidence, and the owners of the IP rights (adidas, Real Madrid etc) are not pulled in the officers may not take any action. The best route is still to go to Adidas / Nike to have them verify the same and for them to take the action as it is in their interest to do so.

And you dont have to ask us to get it - the onus is on you to prove your case - as we have raised differences which you have yet to rebut. Unless of cos someone here buys from you and it turns out to be a fake, then he can report the same to the relevant authorities and you yourself, and your cuz would ultimately be responsible for various IP - related offences.

This post has been edited by chcher: Oct 18 2010, 10:15 AM

nice try nonetheless bro, applaud u for that I have a closet (half)full of failed DIYs too...

perhaps u can follow Faiz's guide on the first post to allign the name and numbers first and tape them to the shirt with masking tapes etc. When you do more, you will be more comfortable and can be able to judge more accurately.

Thanks for taking the effort to contact adidas etc.

1) As you have pointed out, Adidas cannot even verify the authenticity, so I still stick to my earlier view that I would advice (this is my personal advice, up to members or others whether they follow or not) to stay away from them until it is officially recognised and verified.

2) Did you show them the poor stitching on the back of the badge? I am very very sure originals do not have that. You can even compare with any Adidas stores etc and you can show me if you find any with it. This is a classic poor embroidery for fakes as the originals would have a clean stitching for the badge.

3) As mentioned earlier, the onus is NOT for us buyers to call adidas etc to verify for u. It is for you to get the necessary authentication if there are doubts. As far as i am concern and based on my own observations, the RM shirt is a clear fake. The fact that Adidas ccould not authenticate it on the spot confirms my suspicion.

4) again you are bringing up your "cousin's stocks". I am very sure Adias would not allow have allowed their authourised distributors to undercut the margin so much below the RRP, unless it is done without their permission. Which would mean anyuone buying from this is helping an illegal cause. I do admit this is my speculation only, but it is one i believe reasonably drawn from the circumstances of the trade etc. If you have the guts, you can put your cousin's name out if he is not doing anything illegal. Then I can do the necessary checks etc, from CCM, from licenses etc.

5) Even assuming your suggestion is true and that there was a printing error, then it is and rightfully be rejected stocks. How can rejected stocks still be sold at RM180??

Please ponder.

(PS: the above is assuming that you had in fact spoken to the person, the person is who he claims he is, the card is not fake, and that you had not just taken a card without further talking to him, and that you had in fact asked him to verify the very same shirt that you posted pictures here. Like i said, onus is on YOU to verify and get the necessary authentication, and not asking us to call etc.)

This post has been edited by chcher: Oct 19 2010, 02:29 PM

bro,

1) on the authencity of the RM kit, after all this, my verdict remains the same. The shirt to me is plain fake or at the very least, a rejected stock (this is just a 5- 10% possibility). Does not warrant a RM180.00 price tag. Nothing (ie from an evidentiary point of view) has been adduced to contradict any of the points raised apart from bare unsupported averments.

2) Without revealing your source, ie your "cuz" who you claim to be authorised dealer, there is nothing at all (from an evidentiary point of view) ie "0" point to support the averment that your source is legit. You cannot vouch for ligitimacy of others - he has to come out and convince the rest, or some documents have to be shown etc. Again, from an evidential point of view - "0" - ie nothing has been adduced at all apart from bare allegations which carries no weight at all.

3) And as stated, even if the source is legit, does not mean your shirts are especially your source is doing illegal activities ie knowingly in breach of his duties as an official distributor and making side profits by selling shirts and undercutting his own licensor and other licensed dealers. If reported to the licensor, you are right - your cousin whoever that is will be in breach of contract and in fact there can also be a case for criminal trade mark infringement and liable for imprisonment and fine if the relevant owners and authorities have strong evidence to pursue.

4) The fact that you acknowledged "they have to follow right procedure becos of Trade Mark issues", though the wordings are wrong, but it shows that you know there is a route they adhere too and that your cuz and your actions is wrong! How dare you have to cheek to say you are doing something right????????? you,as you say, are in this for business. Sadly, its by illegal means, even assuming what u tell us is true. So please, before you say you are doing "the best thing and the right thing", please think carefully. You can say "oh, im doing all buyers a favour, by offering cheap jerseys" - heck these profits go straight to you, and your cuz in breach of established procedures. That is illegal and don think of yourself as a saviour to collectors etc. A wrong is a wrong, no matter how you word it.

5) I am not well known in Al Ikhsan at all. I am just a regular patron. Whatever the price they buy, or sell, has nothing to do with me as a customer. They are doing business the RIGHT way. Not like your dodgy one. They have a proper audit trail etc, and even if there was foul play along the way, there would be traces to detect. Unlike yours which is shrouded in secrecy and doubt. The price they bring in, and the price they sell at the agreed margin, is part of their business operations with their suppliers, distributors, manufacturers etc. They have a shop to maintain, staff to feed, so the margin will take that into account. If the public feels the price is too much, they dont buy, and the relevant companies etc will have to come up with revised prices etc to attract purchases. This, is a healthy competition and a healthy market. Unlike your cuz who is ripping the manufactuers if in fact he is undercutting them in breach of his contractual obligations.

I am sad to say I will not be able to endorse any of your sales and would warn buyers to be cautious and to buy at own risk. If you want to do business, do it the right way and not just for a quick profit without any care for authenticity. You even admitted your goods could be reject stock and you even claim tha t if you put cheaper price people more curious???? now that says alot about your business ethics.


This post has been edited by chcher: Oct 19 2010, 04:18 PM

well, arvill2, it is not so much an argument, it is more of a necessary verification. To be fair, everyone deserves a fair hearing. I believe we have been patient thus far. It would appear that kaka_89 is in denial, probably based solely on his cuz's words etc. Anyway as i mentioned earlier, I applaud him for at elast trying to check the authenticity here first before selling (i donno - this could be a ploy to get more information to make the fakes perfect)

To be frank, whatever photos kaka_89 send now would have little effect on my mind. For all I know (I'm being the devil's advocate here) he may go on to purchase originals from somewhere (hence the wait) or worst - to inform fkaers to modify and improve the products - and show us pics of original pictures later etc. So I have to be blunt in saying that the chance is lost, and that it would take alot more to convince me otherwise.

Of cos, I am but stating my view, and may not be the view shared by all. Its just for sharing and exchange of views. Others, please buy at your own risk. Thats all I have to say.

i had 2 parcels despatched 2 days in between, the first parcel safely arrived, after 14 days, now awaiting the 2nd parcel...fingers crossed....

hi bro, please read first page. Faiz's Q&A already addresses all your concerns thanks.

Enjoy your DIY:)

good to hear that. it is always satisfying to DIY your own nns

lextras are easier and more versatile, make sure u read Faiz's tutorials before attempting PUs to avoid heartaches

re sanfa, as pointed out by Arvil22, that chelsea shirt is a fake. no umbro logo, the collar tag is of some other brand (illegible) etc etc.

all is not lost

the sizing is the same as normal Nike sizing so XXL no prob liao

and this is still cool:




Attached thumbnail(s)

the sponsors on ebay likely to be DIYs also. if u want DIY, alot on ebay thailand and HK, but i wont be promoting them here (or at all).

Try soccerauthentics or homeofbadges sometimes they have some authentic ones like the Unicef for barca etc

i think the crest is gone simply becos the fans resented that crest, myself included. The state of football being run by FAM is just horrific to say the least. At least with the flag, we (i speak for myself and some like minded fans la) can show our real allegiance - to the country and not the association.

football in all countries are run by their respective Football association.

its just my view, and the sentiments shared by alot of local fans in alot of forums etc. some fans mentioned they wont buy malaysia kit if there is the FAM logo, as a show of discontent to the way football is being run at the moment by FAM. But this does not mean the fans are not patriotic or supportive of the national tea,.Hence (i think) Nike brought back the flag instead (back to the old days ala Adidas) so as to get the fans together again in a way.

and i don think creating a new symbol makes any difference if the sentiments is true. anyway the flag is the most direct symbol of the country

anyway it is just my view, nothing more nothing less