hmm.......normally what do you all do in Shattered Temple/Metalopolis/delta close spawn location ZvP. i 15 hatch 15 pool gas and after all the speed, drone, queen jazz.....its about time my opponent slowly pylon wall up his low ground into expo (3 gate sentry expo) i will have about 35-45 supply wif decent drone and some poking lings in front. but now protoss left me speechless and dno what to do next.

i can bet wif my nuts after expo it will be 6 gate all in wif sentry, maybe wif +1 timing attack also.

but i dno what to do next. some will say roaach all in but it doesnt work ALL THE TIME and if dmg is not enuf, their probe count will be sky high. decent control of FF can really defend for long enuf until 1 void ray is out.....i tried a few variation, doesnt assure more than 50% win rate :/

i read in playxp, they recommended burrow baneling.....if you noe its a 6/7 gate all in without robo, (maybe they will even use twilight blink later in the game), just burrow baneling, if can take out the sentry ball, its auto win wif ur sling surround and runby. but when i tried it, his push came earlier than my burrow T.T (i sneaked a 3rd b4 turning into lair but for me its standard expand timing, cuz toss turning 2 base)

nydus seemed possible but too cheesy? maybe win rate wont be high too....and he might just base trade...

I DNO WAT TO DO LA, CLOSE SPAWN 2 base gateway ALL IN SO IMBA

if its cross spawn, i can double expand at both left and right base like DRG/FD style, then stay at tier 1/1.5 wif mass army and larvae to drag till mid game 4 base v 2 base.

or

2 base muta into mass expand sling flood....cuz he cant punish my muta tech fast enuf.....

2 base roach all in after saturation. make sure its speed roach with creep spread. overlord speed upgrade to spread to when ur ready to push his base. roach > stalker hard. and definitely > sentry if he cant get good ff. if you know his ff good, burrow roach lol

its a 3 gate sentry expand, but all toss will throw down a forge at his front expo.

lol, which toss is ball enuf to forge FE against zerg in close spawn XD

anyway off discussion abit, spanishiwa thought me something cute in zvp if toss forge FE, scout at 9-10 on big map, saw a forge laid down at expo for wall in (etc. shakuras or tal darim), make a hatchery cancel/evo at his expo location wif ur 15 hatch money lol.......this will force your opponent to make cannon b4 making nexus, hence putting u abit in front of your opponent XD if he ignores you, you had successfully made him waste a forward pylon and forge and denied the 'idrasayimba' forge FE....

speed roach is after lair.......6 gate hits way b4 that unless u didnt stop gas for drone saturation. its close spawn -.- and speed roach is not a good deal for me in early game, too many tech involved...losira's bo doesnt have that too
-evo

IM Losira.............his roach all in works btr in belsair beach, xel naga cavern, xel naga fortress these maps wif wide expos where you can find angle. but TBH, im having a hard time to pull it off on shakuras, shattered...the game i lost was on shattered close spawn i was pretty frustrated..felt that nothing i could do...

p/s IM Losira build order is 18 drone, 2 queens, 1 fast roach warren, speedling then 5 roach.....you will be infinitely behind/he can counter you super fast if you cant kill him wo wat i noe is when his expo is done, normally he will have 30+ probe adi and if i had decided to roach all in, i will have 18 only, and even if i can snipe his expo and forge, im still not in a sure win position. (lost a game in close spawn, killed his expo, he stay 1 base wif 30+ probe and power 5 gate all in me. caught me off guard when i was droning (i had only 18 b4 the all in, must drone back) and die str8 off....

and IM Losira sticks in hatchery till 3 base saturated only start lair right? if i rmb correctly...but he did that on....crevasse and xel naga cavern to alicia right?

honestly if i see tat i jz 4 gate u LOL...
pylon still give supply and the forge is only a 150minerals dump

Cancelling a hatchery = 75 minerals lost
Building an useless Evo Chamber = 75 minerals
One drone = 50 minerals

Plus the lost mining time.

Just to block a Nexus, really?

Oh ya, Spanishiwa is pretty much over-rated.

you have to be clear to us: is the toss attacking with 4 gate or 6 gate lol.
no way a toss will lose to zherk droning like mad and lair tech.

and thats why i asked, because if you drone mad, 4 gate will kill you there and then. but if he focus on 2 base then 6 gate, your econ is confirmed to outpace him :/

and what too many tech involved? would you rather have ur roach bullied by stalkers kiting you? speed roach only requires 200 gas from lair and speed upg. granted, if you after you got ur tech you can go easy on gas as they are mineral heavy (pull gas off and saturate mineral faster and start spamming army to pressure toss)

also if ur a zerg against toss and ur not doing upgrades (dual evo chamber for example) you're gonna get overpowered by toss chrono forge(s) especially when hes 2 basing.

=edit=
and to emphasize on this, look up the protoss thread where i posted a pvz. he 2 base i 1 base 4 gate all in.
HAD he gotten his upgrades, i could've, or would've lost already. but he didnt. no roach speed. no carapace/dmg upgrade, nothing.

hell if i knew his tech so derp, i could suddenly sneak in a stargate and get ONE VR, he would've gg'ed earlier too.

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Added on June 15, 2011, 7:20 pm

yeah, can always just cancel the forge if it isnt done once you see evocham is thrown down LOL

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Added on June 15, 2011, 7:22 pm

200 minerals for a deny isnt too much to pay. you see many koreans especially toss doing it against zerg with their pylons. though pylons, is a ton cheaper, and doesnt waste that 1 drone.

actually the zerg can drone like mad when the toss FE...
there are certain timing especially wit the warp gate changes...
no to forget the investment for the expansion (though i faked expo to 4 gate few times b4 lol)
as i said u can saturate 2 and a half bases with drones before the toss could even move out =p
with good scouting (map control with lings and OL sac) u can drone up without a care in the world...
and u can reproduce in time for the toss's atk as long as u have good larvae management...
the key of a good zerg is that larvae management...
u can always notice nestea/ losira stockpiling larvae till a crucial information before deciding drone or army...

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Added on June 15, 2011, 7:28 pmoh ya: i do pylon -> core deny usually if i am nt expanding via forge

lol, the cancel thingy obviously aint standard but something cool to play wif.

so everyone of you gave diff opinion, some say tech some say drone like mad...well, after playing zerg for 2-3 days only i realized i should engage btr and dun sack army i could have won some of the stupid games i played earlier

anyway for those who dont know, moonglade went to China server day b4 ytd. raped all the way up wif N win 0 lose. the whole china sc2 forum went crazy as you know they are quite patriotic and very the butthurt.

he went 0 loses till someone in top50 GM terran thor banshee all in won him cuz of lag n delay XD whole china damn butthurt cuz moonglade is rank 199 in KR GM and kena rape in code A.

he troll chat wif his opponents in chinese (kellymilkies help him translate) and the whole chinese community were watching/talking about it for 3 days adi.