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Humanities The Hierachy of Race?, No racism intended.

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SUSDeadlocks
post Jul 8 2010, 10:11 AM, updated 14y ago

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QUOTE
Published on Saturday, September 20, 2003 by the Guardian/UK
The Global Hierarchy of Race
As the only racial group that never suffers systemic racism, whites are in denial about its impact
by Martin Jacques


I always found race difficult to understand. It was never intuitive. And the reason was simple. Like every other white person, I had never experienced it myself: the meaning of color was something I had to learn. The turning point was falling in love with my wife, an Indian-Malaysian, and her coming to live in England. Then, over time, I came to see my own country in a completely different way, through her eyes, her background. Color is something white people never have to think about because for them it is never a handicap, never a source of prejudice or discrimination, but rather the opposite, a source of privilege. However liberal and enlightened I tried to be, I still had a white outlook on the world. My wife was the beginning of my education.

But it was not until we went to live in Hong Kong that my view of the world, and the place that race occupies within it, was to be utterly transformed. Rather than seeing race through the prism of my own society, I learned to see it globally. When we left these shores, it felt as if we were moving closer to my wife's world: this was east Asia and she was Malaysian. And she, unlike me, had the benefit of speaking Cantonese. So my expectation was that she would feel more comfortable in this environment than I would. I was wrong. As a white, I found myself treated with respect and deference; my wife, notwithstanding her knowledge of the language and her intimacy with Chinese culture, was the object of an in-your-face racism.

In our 14 months in Hong Kong, I learned some brutal lessons about racism. First, it is not the preserve of whites. Every race displays racial prejudice, is capable of racism, carries assumptions about its own virtue and superiority. Each racism, furthermore, is subtly different, reflecting the specificity of its own culture and history.

Second, there is a global racial hierarchy that helps to shape the power and the prejudices of each race. At the top of this hierarchy are whites. The reasons are deep-rooted and profound. White societies have been the global top dogs for half a millennium, ever since Chinese civilization went into decline. With global hegemony, first with Europe and then the US, whites have long commanded respect, as well as arousing fear and resentment, among other races. Being white confers a privilege, a special kind of deference, throughout the world, be it Kingston, Hong Kong, Delhi, Lagos - or even, despite the way it is portrayed in Britain, Harare. Whites are the only race that never suffers any kind of systemic racism anywhere in the world. And the impact of white racism has been far more profound and baneful than any other: it remains the only racism with global reach.

Being top of the pile means that whites are peculiarly and uniquely insensitive to race and racism, and the power relations this involves. We are invariably the beneficiaries, never the victims. Even when well-meaning, we remain strangely ignorant. The clout enjoyed by whites does not reside simply in an abstraction - western societies - but in the skin of each and every one of us. Whether we like it or not, in every corner of the planet we enjoy an extraordinary personal power bestowed by our color It is something we are largely oblivious of, and consequently take for granted, irrespective of whether we are liberal or reactionary, backpackers, tourists or expatriate businessmen.

The existence of a de facto global racial hierarchy helps to shape the nature of racial prejudice exhibited by other races. Whites are universally respected, even when that respect is combined with strong resentment. A race generally defers to those above it in the hierarchy and is contemptuous of those below it. The Chinese - like the Japanese - widely consider themselves to be number two in the pecking order and look down upon all other races as inferior. Their respect for whites is also grudging - many Chinese believe that western hegemony is, in effect, held on no more than prolonged leasehold. Those below the Chinese and the Japanese in the hierarchy are invariably people of color (both Chinese and Japanese often like to see themselves as white, or nearly white). At the bottom of the pile, virtually everywhere it would seem, are those of African descent, the only exception in certain cases being the indigenous peoples.

This highlights the centrality of color to the global hierarchy. Other factors serve to define and reinforce a race's position in the hierarchy - levels of development, civilizational values, history, religion, physical characteristics and dress - but the most insistent and widespread is color The reason is that color is instantly recognizable, it defines difference at the glance of an eye. It also happens to have another effect. It makes the global hierarchy seem like the natural order of things: you are born with your color, it is something nobody can do anything about, it is neither cultural nor social but physical in origin. In the era of globalization, with mass migration and globalized cultural industries, color has become the universal calling card of difference. In interwar Europe, the dominant forms of racism were anti-semitism and racialized nationalisms, today it is color: at a football match, it is blacks not Jews that get jeered, even in eastern Europe.

Liberals like to think that racism is a product of ignorance, of a lack of contact, and that as human mobility increases, so racism will decline. This might be described as the Benetton view of the world. And it does contain a modicum of truth. Intermixing can foster greater understanding, but not necessarily, as Burnley, Sri Lanka and Israel, in their very different ways, all testify.

Hong Kong, compared with China, is an open society, and has long been so, yet it has had little or no effect in mollifying Chinese prejudice towards people of darker skin. It is not that racism is immovable and intractable, but that its roots are deep, its prejudices as old as humanity itself. The origins of Chinese racism lie in the Middle Kingdom: the belief that the Chinese are superior to other races - with the exception of whites - is centuries, if not thousands of years, old. The disparaging attitude among American whites towards blacks has its roots in slavery. Wishing it wasn't true, denying it is true, will never change the reality. We can only understand - and tackle racism - if we are honest about it. And when it comes to race - more than any other issue - honesty is in desperately short supply.

Race remains the great taboo. Take the case of Hong Kong. A conspiracy of silence surrounded race. As the British departed in 1997, amid much self-congratulation, they breathed not a word about racism. Yet the latter was integral to colonial rule, its leitmotif: colonialism, after all, is institutionalized racism at its crudest and most base. The majority of Chinese, the object of it, meanwhile, harbored an equally racist mentality towards people of darker skin. Masters of their own home, they too are in denial of their own racism. But that, in varying degrees, is true of racism not only in Hong Kong but in every country in the world. You may remember that, after the riots in Burnley in the summer of 2001, Tony Blair declared that they were not a true reflection of the state of race relations in Britain: of course, they were, even if the picture is less discouraging in other aspects.

Racism everywhere remains largely invisible and hugely under-estimated, the issue that barely speaks its name. How can the Economist produce a 15,000-word survey on migration, as it did last year, and hardly mention the word racism? Why does virtually no one talk about the racism suffered by the Williams sisters on the tennis circuit even though the evidence is legion? Why are the deeply racist western attitudes towards Arabs barely mentioned in the context of the occupation of Iraq, carefully hidden behind talk of religion and civilizational values?

The dominant race in a society, whether white or otherwise, rarely admits to its own racism. Denial is near universal. The reasons are manifold. It has a huge vested interest in its own privilege. It will often be oblivious to its own prejudices. It will regard its racist attitudes as nothing more than common sense, having the force and justification of nature. Only when challenged by those on the receiving end is racism outed, and attitudes begin to change. The reason why British society is less nakedly racist than it used to be is that whites have been forced by people of color to question age-old racist assumptions. Nations are never honest about themselves: they are all in varying degrees of denial.

This is clearly fundamental to understanding the way in which racism is underplayed as a national and global issue. But there is another reason, which is a specifically white problem. Because whites remain the overwhelmingly dominant global race, perched in splendid isolation on top of the pile even though they only represent 17% of the world's population, they are overwhelmingly responsible for setting the global agenda, for determining what is discussed and what is not. And the fact that whites have no experience of racism, except as perpetrators, means that racism is constantly underplayed by western institutions - by governments, by the media, by corporations. Moreover, because whites have reigned globally supreme for half a millennium, they, more than any other race, have left their mark on the rest of humanity: they have a vested interest in denying the extent and baneful effects of racism.

It was only two years ago, you may remember, that the first-ever United Nations conference on racism was held - against the fierce resistance of the US (and that in the Clinton era). Nothing more eloquently testifies to the unwillingness of western governments to engage in a global dialogue about the problem of racism.

If racism is now more widely recognized than it used to be, the situation is likely to be transformed over the next few decades. As migration increases, as the regime of denial is challenged, as subordinate races find the will and confidence to challenge the dominant race, as understanding of racism develops, as we become more aware of other racisms like that of the Han Chinese, then the global prominence of racism is surely set to increase dramatically.

It is rare to hear a political leader speaking the discourse of color Robert Mugabe is one, but he is tainted and discredited. The Malaysian prime minister, Mahathir Mohamed, is articulate on the subject of white privilege and the global hierarchy. The most striking example by a huge margin, though, is Nelson Mandela. When it comes to color, his sacrifice is beyond compare and his authority unimpeachable. And his message is always universal - not confined to the interests of one race. It is he who has suggested that western support for Israel has something to do with race. It is he who has hinted that it is no accident that the authority of the UN is under threat at a time when its secretary general is black. And yet his voice is almost alone in a world where race oozes from every pore of humanity. In a world where racism is becoming increasingly important, we will need more such leaders. And invariably they will be people of color: on this subject whites lack moral authority. I could only understand the racism suffered by my wife through her words and experience. I never felt it myself. The difference is utterly fundamental.

Martin Jacques is a visiting fellow at the London School of Economics. The death of his wife, Harinder Veriah, in 2000 in a Hong Kong hospital triggered an outcry which culminated in this summer's announcement by the Hong Kong government that it would introduce anti-racist legislation for the first time martinjacques1@aol.com

© Guardian Newspapers Limited 2003


Now, before any of you are willing to go on a berserk-racism mode, let me explain myself.

The problem with me is, I cannot help myself to ponder upon the issue racism as an attempt to discourage it, without looking towards a specific society, say, CAUCASIANS, which is a race completely free of any systematic racism. and from this article I've posted, a few statements affirms it:

QUOTE
And the fact that whites have no experience of racism, except as perpetrators, means that racism is constantly underplayed by western institutions - by governments, by the media, by corporations. Moreover, because whites have reigned globally supreme for half a millennium, they, more than any other race, have left their mark on the rest of humanity: they have a vested interest in denying the extent and baneful effects of racism.


QUOTE
Whites are the only race that never suffers any kind of systemic racism anywhere in the world. And the impact of white racism has been far more profound and baneful than any other: it remains the only racism with global reach.

Being top of the pile means that whites are peculiarly and uniquely insensitive to race and racism, and the power relations this involves. We are invariably the beneficiaries, never the victims. Even when well-meaning, we remain strangely ignorant. The clout enjoyed by whites does not reside simply in an abstraction - western societies - but in the skin of each and every one of us. Whether we like it or not, in every corner of the planet we enjoy an extraordinary personal power bestowed by our color It is something we are largely oblivious of, and consequently take for granted, irrespective of whether we are liberal or reactionary, backpackers, tourists or expatriate businessmen.
QUOTE
The most striking example by a huge margin, though, is Nelson Mandela. When it comes to color, his sacrifice is beyond compare and his authority unimpeachable. And his message is always universal - not confined to the interests of one race. It is he who has suggested that western support for Israel has something to do with race. It is he who has hinted that it is no accident that the authority of the UN is under threat at a time when its secretary general is black. And yet his voice is almost alone in a world where race oozes from every pore of humanity. In a world where racism is becoming increasingly important, we will need more such leaders. And invariably they will be people of color: on this subject whites lack moral authority. I could only understand the racism suffered by my wife through her words and experience. I never felt it myself. The difference is utterly fundamental.



dreamer101
post Jul 8 2010, 10:40 AM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Jul 8 2010, 10:11 AM)
Now, before any of you are willing to go on a berserk-racism mode, let me explain myself.

The problem with me is, I cannot help myself to ponder upon the issue racism as an attempt to discourage it, without looking towards a specific society, say, CAUCASIANS, which is a race completely free of any systematic racism. and from this article I've posted, a few statements affirms it:
*
Deadlocks,

So, what is YOU POINT???

The FOUNDATION to COMBAT any kind of RACISM is

A) Multi-culturalism -> Aka, the WILLINGNESS to BELIEVE that there is MORE THAN one way to live a life. Aka, a person has the RIGHT to live the life that they want...

B) FAIRNESS -> CONSCIOUS decision to make sure that EVERYONE is treated EQUALLY in YOUR OWN personal dealing.

Aka, the Golden Rule,

Treat others like how you like to be treated.

A fish is not aware that of the water that they lived in. Aka, this is CULTURE.

Let's take some examples:

1) Group A BELIEVE that they are strongly religious. They BELIEVE that their religion is the ONLY PATH. They BELIEVE that people NOT in their religion is IMMORAL. Hence, they tried to IMPOSE their RELIGIOUS law on OTHERS. They DO NOT CONSIDER this as WRONG. They are trying to save OTHERS soul. Is this RACISM aka skin deep?? Or, it is DEEPER than that??

2) Group B BELIEVE in education. They BELIEVE any group that is NOT as aggressive or obsess with EDUCATION are backward and not as advanced. They look down on people that spend more effort on RELIGION than EDUCATION. So, what do you call this as??

Every CULTURES have a set of VALUE SYSTEM and EXPECTATION. ALL CULTURES are WRONG in one way or another. But, HUMAN BEINGS are LAZY. It is EASIER to try to FORCE their own set of CULTURE on someone else than try to UNDERSTAND and ACCEPT some other CULTURES. That is a MORE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM than a skin deep problem like RACISM.

Dreamer

P.S.: Malaysia is WHERE East meet West. We have a lot more different cultures in this country and we have NO DOMINANT culture. Ditto on religions. But, our awareness of CULTURES beyond our own is SLIM to NONE. Why that is TRUE??

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Jul 8 2010, 11:02 AM
SUSDeadlocks
post Jul 8 2010, 02:36 PM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Jul 8 2010, 10:40 AM)
Deadlocks,

So, what is YOU POINT???

The FOUNDATION to COMBAT any kind of RACISM is

A) Multi-culturalism -> Aka, the WILLINGNESS to BELIEVE that there is MORE THAN one way to live a life. Aka, a person has the RIGHT to live the life that they want...

B) FAIRNESS ->  CONSCIOUS decision to make sure that EVERYONE is treated EQUALLY in YOUR OWN personal dealing.

Aka, the Golden Rule,

Treat others like how you like to be treated.

A fish is not aware that of the water that they lived in.  Aka, this is CULTURE.

Let's take some examples:

1) Group A BELIEVE that they are strongly religious.  They BELIEVE that their religion is the ONLY PATH.  They BELIEVE that people NOT in their religion is IMMORAL.  Hence, they tried to IMPOSE their RELIGIOUS law on OTHERS.  They DO NOT CONSIDER this as WRONG.  They are trying to save OTHERS soul.  Is this RACISM aka skin deep?? Or, it is DEEPER than that??

2) Group B BELIEVE in education.  They BELIEVE any group that is NOT as aggressive or obsess with EDUCATION are backward and not as advanced.  They look down on people that spend more effort on RELIGION than EDUCATION.  So, what do you call this as??

Every CULTURES have a set of VALUE SYSTEM and EXPECTATION.  ALL CULTURES are WRONG in one way or another.  But, HUMAN BEINGS are LAZY.  It is EASIER to try to FORCE their own set of CULTURE on someone else than try to UNDERSTAND and ACCEPT some other CULTURES.  That is a MORE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM than a skin deep problem like RACISM.

Dreamer

P.S.:  Malaysia is WHERE East meet West.  We have a lot more different cultures in this country and we have NO DOMINANT culture.  Ditto on religions.  But, our awareness of CULTURES beyond our own is SLIM to NONE.  Why that is TRUE??
*
Do you believe in the hierarchy of race from the first post?
dreamer101
post Jul 8 2010, 06:54 PM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Jul 8 2010, 02:36 PM)
Do you believe in the hierarchy of race from the first post?
*
Deadlocks,

Yes and no...

1) Yes, I believe that SOME PEOPLE are STUPID enough to believe that WHITE PEOPLE are SUPERIOR.

2) No for Chinese in Malaya and Singapore. During WWII, the British ran away instead of fighting the Japanese and left the Chinese to be MASSACRED by the Japanese. After this BETRAYAL, Chinese no longer consider the WHITE to be SUPERIOR. During our childhood, we even have a song on this.

3) For my family, we are SPREAD across 30+ countries in the world. So, we do not believe in this RACE stuff. But, we BELIEVE group of people that TREATED EDUCATION seriously tend to get ahead versus those that are don't.

4) Have you ever live and work oversea??

Dreamer
Awakened_Angel
post Jul 8 2010, 10:05 PM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Jul 8 2010, 11:11 AM)
Now, before any of you are willing to go on a berserk-racism mode, let me explain myself.

The problem with me is, I cannot help myself to ponder upon the issue racism as an attempt to discourage it, without looking towards a specific society, say, CAUCASIANS, which is a race completely free of any systematic racism. and from this article I've posted, a few statements affirms it:
*
grow up.....

discrimination is EVERYWHERE

and race is just one of them......

race, sex, religion, country, state, spoken language, schools, groups, etc...........

sg chinese discriminate msia chinese

french vs english; when I was in UK, the BBC(british born chinese) saw me as immigrants thought I was for study doh.gif

This post has been edited by Awakened_Angel: Jul 8 2010, 10:06 PM
3dassets
post Jul 9 2010, 01:35 AM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Jul 8 2010, 06:54 PM)

1) Yes, I believe that SOME PEOPLE are STUPID enough to believe that WHITE PEOPLE are SUPERIOR.

*
I read about natural selection long time ago that the White people "Neanderthal" are more advanced in gene compared to others "Peking man" and black "African / aborigine" are the most primitive in scientific terms; each of their children can have different colour hair & eyes is the visible fact and their physical build are bigger.
The African look the same, facial features that resembled to the gorilla (no offence) we don't need high education to notice, this is the result of in-breeding.

WHITE are more superior because their culture successfully transfered knowledge through documentation and the first to derive the many systems that govern a society, ask yourself who gave us the education content in our school? The Western civilization other than history even the calendar.

We can't deny the fact however educated we become, in fact, if you look at the map and take African and mix with Chinese, you get brown in the middle and if you ever come across "Chinese-Indian" they look like the Malay. Most of us do think that WHITE or Caucasian do look better and most of the local advertisements prefer Chinese and skin whitening products are top selling cosmetic.

Why Asian can't win the world cup? Blame it on the short gene.







Awakened_Angel
post Jul 9 2010, 02:25 PM

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QUOTE(3dassets @ Jul 9 2010, 02:35 AM)

WHITE are more superior because their culture successfully transfered knowledge through documentation and the first to derive the many systems that govern a society, ask yourself who gave us the education content in our school? The Western civilization other than history even the calendar.

*
I watched in discovery that it is said whites are effects from malnutrition from last ice age.... that is why their pigment turn white
3dassets
post Jul 9 2010, 03:56 PM

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QUOTE(Awakened_Angel @ Jul 9 2010, 02:25 PM)
I watched in discovery that it is said whites are effects from malnutrition from last ice age.... that is why their pigment turn white
*
Their skin lack pigment (Melanin) and prone to skin cancer, which termed WHITE people, the only defect I can think of and they love sun bath while silly people want to bleach their skin, they can also handle alcohol better than us.


Awakened_Angel
post Jul 9 2010, 07:01 PM

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QUOTE(3dassets @ Jul 9 2010, 04:56 PM)
Their skin lack pigment (Melanin) and prone to skin cancer, which termed WHITE people, the only defect I can think of and they love sun bath while silly people want to bleach their skin, they can also handle alcohol better than us.
*
no laa

chinese also a hell of a drinker biggrin.gif
soul2soul
post Jul 10 2010, 10:02 AM

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Money rules.
3dassets
post Jul 10 2010, 10:31 AM

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Oil producing countries are rich, did they make the rules or the intelligent. Almost sounded like Arab vs Jew, the White are few hundred years ahead in technology and they are not sharing them only those that made others good consumers.

Just a thought; if there are no pirated software, do you think PC user will grow at the same rate? Give is to receive because what goes around comes around. Chinaman style will never do that and they remain as family businesses than become a corporate entity.
ComposMentis
post Jul 11 2010, 11:21 AM

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QUOTE(3dassets @ Jul 9 2010, 03:56 PM)
Their skin lack pigment (Melanin) and prone to skin cancer, which termed WHITE people, the only defect I can think of and they love sun bath while silly people want to bleach their skin, they can also handle alcohol better than us.
*
but being white is not without its advantage , it permits the skin to absorb more sun light which in turn lead to synthesis of more vitamin D biggrin.gif
SUSslimey
post Jul 11 2010, 04:11 PM


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QUOTE(ComposMentis @ Jul 11 2010, 11:21 AM)
but being white is not without its advantage , it permits the skin to absorb more sun light which in turn lead to synthesis of more vitamin D  biggrin.gif
*
higher risk to melanoma

vit D requirement is easily met anyway....

SUSDeadlocks
post Jul 16 2010, 10:44 AM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Jul 8 2010, 06:54 PM)
Deadlocks,

Yes and no...

1) Yes, I believe that SOME PEOPLE are STUPID enough to believe that WHITE PEOPLE are SUPERIOR.

2) No for Chinese in Malaya and Singapore.  During WWII, the British ran away instead of fighting the Japanese and left the Chinese to be MASSACRED by the Japanese.  After this BETRAYAL, Chinese no longer consider the WHITE to be SUPERIOR.  During our childhood, we even have a song on this

3) For my family, we are SPREAD across 30+ countries in the world.  So, we do not believe in this RACE stuff.  But, we BELIEVE group of people that TREATED EDUCATION seriously tend to get ahead versus those that are don't.

4) Have you ever live and work oversea??

Dreamer
*
That's not necessarily true. Haven't you noticed how isolated an Asian is when he/she is in a European country, compared to how venerated a Caucasian is when he/she is in an Asian country? If you've lived and worked overseas, you should be able to able to observe this typical social construction.

And have you ever wondered what will be your perceptions if you're born as a Caucasian? Wouldn't you, as the Caucasian, will feel as if you have the world's confidence, especially considering the fact that most successful capitalist corporations actually belonged to Americans/Europeans? To know that whever you go, you will always see the "Coca-Cola" brand, even if they're changed in different languages? How many Asians corporations are as dominant as them?

The idea is not to think that white people are superior, but rather to UNDERSTAND where did they get their confidence from. And also why are they venerated in Asian countries compared to Asians in European countries.

This post has been edited by Deadlocks: Jul 16 2010, 10:46 AM
Crazyboyrs
post Jul 16 2010, 11:41 AM

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Well, Chinese(from China) and Indian(from India) do have a different perspective which I encountered. The are not afraid to venture to another countries as they always have this quote "We(Chinese/Indian) can be found in any corner of the world". Indeed this is true as you can meet them in many countries.

With this mindset, they do have an advantage compare to different race. We can always see Chinatown in foreign countries. Chinese know where to go as their ancestors or previous generations did leave some traces in foreign soils.
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post Jul 16 2010, 01:08 PM

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This race group also known to be selfish and not trust worthy, there is a Malaysian Chinese saying; rather take a chance on the sneak than trust the Indian:)
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post Jul 17 2010, 08:34 PM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Jul 8 2010, 06:54 PM)
1) Yes, I believe that SOME PEOPLE are STUPID enough to believe that WHITE PEOPLE are SUPERIOR.


Do you believe that the Chinese are superior?


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post Jul 17 2010, 09:58 PM

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Advancement in science overwhelm everything and dominate the economy, The white are the one who did that first and continue to lead, the gene is no longer a factor except in sport & climate adaptation but education and ideology.
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post Aug 16 2010, 08:15 AM

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interesting topic
this is one of my essence in debating in RWI
whether they want to admit it or not
some race do feel they are superior than other..

dreamer101
post Aug 16 2010, 08:25 AM

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QUOTE(raul88 @ Aug 16 2010, 08:15 AM)
interesting topic
this is one of my essence in debating in RWI
whether they want to admit it or not
some race do feel they are superior than other..
*
raul88,

Some people believe that their race is INFERIOR. They rather take that EXCUSE than improve themselves.

Dreamer


Added on August 16, 2010, 8:27 am
QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Jul 8 2010, 06:54 PM)


3) For my family, we are SPREAD across 30+ countries in the world.  So, we do not believe in this RACE stuff.  But, we BELIEVE group of people that TREATED EDUCATION seriously tend to get ahead versus those that are don't.

*
QUOTE(dax8 @ Jul 17 2010, 08:34 PM)
Do you believe that the Chinese are superior?
*
dax8,

I had answered the question.

Dreamer


This post has been edited by dreamer101: Aug 16 2010, 08:27 AM
SUSDeadlocks
post Aug 16 2010, 12:32 PM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Jul 8 2010, 06:54 PM)
Deadlocks,

Yes and no...

1) Yes, I believe that SOME PEOPLE are STUPID enough to believe that WHITE PEOPLE are SUPERIOR.

2) No for Chinese in Malaya and Singapore.  During WWII, the British ran away instead of fighting the Japanese and left the Chinese to be MASSACRED by the Japanese.  After this BETRAYAL, Chinese no longer consider the WHITE to be SUPERIOR.  During our childhood, we even have a song on this.

3) For my family, we are SPREAD across 30+ countries in the world.  So, we do not believe in this RACE stuff.  But, we BELIEVE group of people that TREATED EDUCATION seriously tend to get ahead versus those that are don't.

4) Have you ever live and work oversea??

Dreamer
*
That's not necessarily true. Haven't you noticed how isolated an Asian is when he/she is in a European country, compared to how venerated a Caucasian is when he/she is in an Asian country? If you've lived and worked overseas, you should be able to able to observe this typical social construction.

And have you ever wondered what will be your perceptions if you're born as a Caucasian? Wouldn't you, as the Caucasian, will feel as if you have the world's confidence, especially considering the fact that most successful capitalist corporations actually belonged to Americans/Europeans? To know that whever you go, you will always see the "Coca-Cola" brand, even if they're changed in different languages? How many Asians corporations are as dominant as them?

The idea is not to think that white people are superior, but rather to UNDERSTAND where did they get their confidence from. And also why are they venerated in Asian countries compared to Asians in European countries.

QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 16 2010, 08:25 AM)
raul88,

Some people believe that their race is INFERIOR.  They rather take that EXCUSE than improve themselves.

Dreamer
*
On the contrary, it is people who believed because they are NOT INFERIOR, hence they feel there was never a need to improve themselves. Only a person who is smart will realizes how stupid he really is.

And stupid people? They don't even know how stupid they are, simply due to the fact they are stupid, and worse, because they think they are NOT inferior in any aspects, especially in intelligence, and so they believed they DO NOT NEED TO IMPROVE.

This post has been edited by Deadlocks: Aug 16 2010, 12:50 PM
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post Aug 16 2010, 01:24 PM

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QUOTE(raul88 @ Aug 16 2010, 08:15 AM)
interesting topic
this is one of my essence in debating in RWI
whether they want to admit it or not
some race do feel they are superior than other..
*
Raul88, you have racial hatred in your mind and not fit to debate. It is the REALITY that some race are more superior in terms of physical and ideology, in simple words that you can understand is; the WHITE created most the technology and Chinese has fairer skin then Malay who happen to have the attitude to succeed, your half matured brain refuse to accept and can only believe the things you see with your eyes.

You'd rather believe that the Earth is flat because you are not standing on a sphere, you tried argue in the RWI but failed yet you think you have what it takes to offer your shallow opinion here to all the acting PhD. Don't bring your Malay versus Chinese sentiment here and go debate at the Mamak stall.
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post Aug 16 2010, 02:14 PM

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Like it or not, there is always a dominant force. In a group of people, it is obvious to have a stronger one that is like a leader. Same goes with race, in USA, it is the whites, they are the self proclaimed dominant race.
This dominance is a natural phenomenon is the world it is even shown in the animal world, nothing is borned or created equal.
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It's a human nature to like fairer things. There is nothing racist about this, it's just how our mind (brain) works.

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post Aug 16 2010, 06:13 PM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 16 2010, 08:25 AM)
raul88,

Some people believe that their race is INFERIOR.  They rather take that EXCUSE than improve themselves.

Dreamer


Added on August 16, 2010, 8:27 am
dax8,

I had answered the question.

Dreamer
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you didnt answer the question
say what you mean..and mean what you said
you're neither

dreamer101
post Aug 16 2010, 07:11 PM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Aug 16 2010, 12:32 PM)
That's not necessarily true. Haven't you noticed how isolated an Asian is when he/she is in a European country, compared to how venerated a Caucasian is when he/she is in an Asian country? If you've lived and worked overseas, you should be able to able to observe this typical social construction.

And have you ever wondered what will be your perceptions if you're born as a Caucasian? Wouldn't you, as the Caucasian, will feel as if you have the world's confidence, especially considering the fact that most successful capitalist corporations actually belonged to Americans/Europeans? To know that whever you go, you will always see the "Coca-Cola" brand, even if they're changed in different languages? How many Asians corporations are as dominant as them?

The idea is not to think that white people are superior, but rather to UNDERSTAND where did they get their confidence from. And also why are they venerated in Asian countries compared to Asians in European countries.
On the contrary, it is people who believed because they are NOT INFERIOR, hence they feel there was never a need to improve themselves. Only a person who is smart will realizes how stupid he really is.

And stupid people? They don't even know how stupid they are, simply due to the fact they are stupid, and worse, because they think they are NOT inferior in any aspects, especially in intelligence, and so they believed they DO NOT NEED TO IMPROVE.
*
Deadlocks,

I had lived in Western Country for many years.

We need to separate two things here. Let's take one thing at a a time.

1) Confidence

Even if a person has confidence, it can go either ways:

A) Arrogance

Our culture are so superior that we do not need to learn anything and improve. Our gene is so good that we have the talent. We do not need to work hard.

The GOOD and BAD in Western Country is that their concept of TALENT. They believe either they have it or not. On the average, they do not work as hard if they believe they are not bornt with it,

B) Confidence to improve

i) Our culture is strong enough and it will not be destroyed by incorporating and learning from other cultures.

ii) We have the gene that is good enough to learn anything. We just need to work hard on it.


And, we can go to the other sides to

2) Inferior feeling

A) Our culture is so weak that it needs to be protected or it will die.

B) Our gene is so weak that it is HOPELESS to believe that we can compete even if we work hard. We are DOOM.


Dreamer

P.S.: I had lived in both Malaysia and USA. IMHO, all cultures are BAD. It does not FIT any individual perfectly. We need to pick and choose what works for us from each culture. Aka, I am a multi-culturalist.


Added on August 16, 2010, 7:12 pm
QUOTE(raul88 @ Aug 16 2010, 06:13 PM)
you didnt answer the question
say what you mean..and mean what you said
you're neither
*
raul88,

I did answer. It is YOU that cannot accept my answer. Fix yourself and every problem will be solved.

YOU are the problem.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Aug 16 2010, 07:12 PM
SUSDeadlocks
post Aug 16 2010, 08:46 PM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 16 2010, 07:11 PM)
Deadlocks,

I had lived in Western Country for many years.

We need to separate two things here.  Let's take one thing at a a time.

1) Confidence

Even if a person has confidence, it can go either ways:

A) Arrogance

Our culture are so superior that we do not need to learn anything and improve.  Our gene is so good that we have the talent.  We do not need to work hard.

The GOOD and BAD in Western Country is that their concept of TALENT.  They believe either they have it or not.  On the average, they do not work as hard if they believe they are not bornt with it,

B) Confidence to improve

i) Our culture is strong enough and it will not be destroyed by incorporating and learning from other cultures.

ii) We have the gene that is good enough to learn anything.  We just need to work hard on it.
*
This I agree.

However:

QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 16 2010, 07:11 PM)
And, we can go to the other sides to

2) Inferior feeling

A) Our culture is so weak that it needs to be protected or it will die.

B) Our gene is so weak that it is HOPELESS to believe that we can compete even if we work hard.  We are DOOM.
Dreamer

P.S.:  I had lived in both Malaysia and USA.  IMHO, all cultures are BAD.  It does not FIT any individual perfectly.  We need to pick and choose what works for us from each culture.  Aka, I am a multi-culturalist.
*
How about:

C) We are so inferior therefore we should work hard to improve ourselves.

Wouldn't that thinking be better? Imagine if a person, say a typical, uneducated Mat Rempit finally decided to be humble and start learning from educated people. If he keeps thinking that he is never inferior in intelligence, how can he ever hope to improve himself?

Same thing goes for an ENTIRE RACE.
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post Aug 16 2010, 09:49 PM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Aug 16 2010, 08:46 PM)
This I agree.

However:
How about:

C) We are so inferior therefore we should work hard to improve ourselves.

Wouldn't that thinking be better? Imagine if a person, say a typical, uneducated Mat Rempit finally decided to be humble and start learning from educated people. If he keeps thinking that he is never inferior in intelligence, how can he ever hope to improve himself?

Same thing goes for an ENTIRE RACE.
*
Deadlocks,

The QUESTION here is do the person BELIEVES that their inferiority is

A) Cultural

Aka, something that they can learn and overcome.

B) Genetic

Aka, they are borned with this and they could NEVER COMPETE successfully with people with SUPERIOR GENE.

Now, there are people DO NOT BELIEVE in meritocracy to begin with. You are either born into RULING ELITE or MARRIED into RULING ELITE family or you are DOOM for life.

Dreamer
hazairi
post Aug 17 2010, 05:28 PM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Aug 16 2010, 08:46 PM)
This I agree.

However:
How about:

C) We are so inferior therefore we should work hard to improve ourselves.

Wouldn't that thinking be better? Imagine if a person, say a typical, uneducated Mat Rempit finally decided to be humble and start learning from educated people. If he keeps thinking that he is never inferior in intelligence, how can he ever hope to improve himself?

Same thing goes for an ENTIRE RACE.
*
QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 16 2010, 09:49 PM)
Deadlocks,

The QUESTION here is do the person BELIEVES that their inferiority is

A) Cultural

Aka, something that they can learn and overcome.

B) Genetic

Aka, they are borned with this and they could NEVER COMPETE successfully with people with SUPERIOR GENE.

Now, there are people DO NOT BELIEVE in meritocracy to begin with.  You are either born into RULING ELITE or MARRIED into RULING ELITE family or you are DOOM for life.

Dreamer
*
Here's an example of 'might be genetic factor':

The FIFA world cup. No matter how hard and advance the technology from Asia, no Asian teams can win the cup so far.
Genetic is really one of the big factor. It's not that they can't win it. It's just that they have to work harder than the whites.

Another example; why do most fast sprinters are blacks? wink.gif
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post Aug 17 2010, 06:08 PM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 17 2010, 05:28 PM)
Another example; why do most fast sprinters are blacks? wink.gif
*
Its the same factor, size and endurance, some of them dominated certain sports events but not Asian. In Heidi Earth quake, many of them can survive even more than week.
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QUOTE(3dassets @ Aug 17 2010, 06:08 PM)
Its the same factor, size and endurance, some of them dominated certain sports events but not Asian. In Heidi Earth quake, many of them can survive even more than week.
*
Exactly. Like what i was trying to say, apart from cultural influence, genes are also a big factor for a superiority of the species..
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post Aug 17 2010, 07:36 PM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 17 2010, 06:13 PM)
Exactly. Like what i was trying to say, apart from cultural influence, genes are also a big factor for a superiority of the species..
*
hazairi,

The QUESTION is

Is the MIND more important or the BODY??

Culture DRIVE the MOTIVATION aka the MIND.

Gene is ONLY the body.

If a person is NOT MOTIVATED to improve and utilizes their TALENT, superior body does not help.

On the other hand, even a person with INFERIOR BODY can improve and become something with MOTIVATION.

MIND over MATTER.

Dreamer
dreamer101
post Aug 17 2010, 07:46 PM

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Folks,

Most things in life are not ABSOLUTE anyhow.

Most human beings have a package of genes that make them good for something and bad for something else.

If someone is a VERY GOOD at something, they will be VERY BAD at something else.

This is how it is in term of GENE.

The KEY of success in life is to make use of what you have. Have an attitude and mentality of NOT WHINING and TAKE RESPONSIBILITY of YOUR LIFE instead of blaming on OTHERS.

It is THE SAME with ANY CULTURE. ALL CULTURES are BAD. They are NOT SUITABLE for ALL circumstances.

Dreamer
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post Aug 17 2010, 11:28 PM

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QUOTE(3dassets @ Jul 9 2010, 02:35 AM)
I read about natural selection long time ago that the White people "Neanderthal" are more advanced in gene compared to others "Peking man" and black "African / aborigine" are the most primitive in scientific terms; each of their children can have different colour hair & eyes is the visible fact and their physical build are bigger.
The African look the same, facial features that resembled to the gorilla (no offence) we don't need high education to notice, this is the result of in-breeding.

WHITE are more superior because their culture successfully transfered knowledge through documentation and the first to derive the many systems that govern a society, ask yourself who gave us the education content in our school? The Western civilization other than history even the calendar.

We can't deny the fact however educated we become, in fact, if you look at the map and take African and mix with Chinese, you get brown in the middle and if you ever come across "Chinese-Indian" they look like the Malay. Most of us do think that WHITE or Caucasian do look better and most of the local advertisements prefer  Chinese and skin whitening products are top selling cosmetic.

Why Asian can't win the world cup? Blame it on the short gene.
*
Are you sure about that? From what I know, Neanderthals and Peking men are dead-ends in the evolution from homo erectus. Homo sapiens are the successful descendants of homo erectus, and all humans today are classified as homo sapiens. Africans are also homo sapiens. As long as they can mate with other humans and produce healthy children, then they are the same species. Interbred species usually produce offsprings that are infertile. Mating Africans with any other human produces fertile children.

Caucasians are taller in general now because of better nutrition. A survey of their height from two thousand years ago showed that it oscillated depending on the nutrition available at that time. Some times, the average was only 5' 3" and other times, almost 6'. Link Measurements made from ancient Chinese armour showed that many of the people were above 6' at certain points in times, especially during the peak of the dynasties. Ancient Romans described ancient Chinese as tall people. If you look at the Japanese, the younger generation is the tallest in Asia and have heights comparable to the average mediterranean European. In the past, just 1 or 2 generations ago, they were widely considered to be shorties.

Having different colour eyes has nothing to do with genetic superiority. Those are probably mutated genes that have survived, since brown eyes are the norm for most of the world. Same with the hair. Link

What do you mean by their culture successfully transferred knowledge through documentation? Many civilisations invented writing, maybe on their own and successfully transferred knowledge throughout the ages. Education content in school? Maybe what we learn now has a lot to do with the West, but the West expanded a lot on the work done by other cultures and civilisations before them that came into decline. One of the reasons the West is so dominant now is because they expanded a lot and dominated other civilisations over the last few hundred years. Maybe you can claim that being aggressive and claiming to want to spread "civilisation" to be a cultural superiority, but then many aggressive cultures have failed after initial successes.

Why Asians can't win the world cup? Poverty, lack of infrastructure, lack of good coaching from a young age, focus on education instead of sports, etc. Lots of factors to consider.

Here's the average height of the teams in the last world cup. As you can see, the 2 finalists are shorter than the Koreans on average, and only slightly taller than the Japanese and N. Koreans.
QUOTE
Average height

Serbia are the tallest team, followed by Greece and Denmark. I never knew Greeks are this tall. Chile are the shortest team, with Korea DPR and South Africa the other two teams below 178 cm.
1 Serbia 185.957
2 Greece 185.261
3 Denmark 184.87
4 New Zealand 184.739
5 Germany 184.478
6 Nigeria 184.087
7 Slovakia 184.043
8 Slovenia 183.87
9 Australia 183.783
10 Switzerland 183.261
11 Cameroon 182.652
12 Brazil 182.609
13 Korea Republic 182.478
14 Algeria 182.174
15 France 181.957
16 England 181.739
17 Portugal 181.478
18 Italy 181.261
19 Netherlands 181.087
20 USA 181.087
21 Côte d'Ivoire 180.957
22 Paraguay 180.913
23 Spain 180.913
24 Uruguay 180.522
25 Japan 178.783
26 Ghana 178.435
27 Argentina 178.043
28 Honduras 178
29 Mexico 178
30 South Africa 177.913
31 Korea DPR 177.739
32 Chile 176.478


Looking only at the first 11 (going by shirt numbers):
1 Greece 186.273
2 New Zealand 186.091
3 Germany 185.364
4 Denmark 185.273
5 Nigeria 185.182
6 Slovenia 184.818
7 Switzerland 184.818
8 Australia 184.545
9 Serbia 183.364
10 Slovakia 182.818
11 Algeria 182.727
12 England 182.727
13 Brazil 182.636
14 Uruguay 182.545
15 Netherlands 181.364
16 Italy 181.273
17 Korea Republic 181.273
18 France 181.091
19 Portugal 180.545
20 Paraguay 180.455
21 USA 180.273
22 Cameroon 180
23 Ghana 180
24 Honduras 179.636
25 Spain 179.636
26 Côte d'Ivoire 179
27 Argentina 178.364
28 Mexico 177.727
29 Chile 176.909
30 Japan 176.818
31 Korea DPR 176.364

32 South Africa 176.182


This post has been edited by thesoothsayer: Aug 17 2010, 11:31 PM
hazairi
post Aug 18 2010, 08:59 AM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 17 2010, 07:36 PM)
hazairi,

The QUESTION is

Is the MIND more important or the BODY??

Culture DRIVE the MOTIVATION aka the MIND.

Gene is ONLY the body.

If a person is NOT MOTIVATED to improve and utilizes their TALENT, superior body does not help.

On the other hand, even a person with INFERIOR BODY can improve and become something with MOTIVATION.

MIND over MATTER.

Dreamer
*
Can't deny that the mind is more important. But 'the body' also played a big roll.

Whites can become good sprinters than blacks BUT they have to work super-hard for that compared to the naturally muscled bodied of the blacks.

A mind of a miracle can produce wonders, but in terms of probability, how many miracles can the under-dogs achieve? smile.gif
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post Aug 18 2010, 01:38 PM

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ENOUGH WITH CHINESE MARRY INDIAN = MALAY BULLSHIT!
GET OUT MY INTERNET!
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post Aug 18 2010, 06:59 PM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 18 2010, 08:59 AM)
Can't deny that the mind is more important. But 'the body' also played a big roll.

Whites can become good sprinters than blacks BUT they have to work super-hard for that compared to the naturally muscled bodied of the blacks.

A mind of a miracle can produce wonders, but in terms of probability, how many miracles can the under-dogs achieve? smile.gif
*
hazairi,

Looking at Chinese in Malaysia, how many miracles have you find?? Plenty...

No, it has nothing to do with gene.

Dreamer
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post Aug 19 2010, 04:45 PM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 17 2010, 06:13 PM)
Exactly. Like what i was trying to say, apart from cultural influence, genes are also a big factor for a superiority of the species..
*
QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 18 2010, 06:59 PM)
hazairi,

Looking at Chinese in Malaysia, how many miracles have you find??  Plenty...

No, it has nothing to do with gene.

Dreamer
*
Like i said before, gene is one of the factor.. Others would be the culture and etc..

About the Chinese, IMO, they have been successful since long time ago.
The cultural influence have made them very hardworking. It's not a suprise to see them successful in many other countries.
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post Aug 19 2010, 06:57 PM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 19 2010, 04:45 PM)
Like i said before, gene is one of the factor.. Others would be the culture and etc..

About the Chinese, IMO, they have been successful since long time ago.
The cultural influence have made them very hardworking. It's not a suprise to see them successful in many other countries.
*
I for one believe, everyone is born equal. Cultural factor do not exist since the day of ice age.

Cultural is something human created, and as we aged, it becomes history and part of our everyday's practise (culture).

Someone has to starts first, before others imitates and follows.
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post Aug 19 2010, 08:00 PM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 19 2010, 04:45 PM)
Like i said before, gene is one of the factor.. Others would be the culture and etc..

About the Chinese, IMO, they have been successful since long time ago.
The cultural influence have made them very hardworking. It's not a suprise to see them successful in many other countries.
*
hazairi,

1) Then, there is NOTHING to prevent other people from copying the part of Chinese Culture that make them successful. The MOST IMPORTANT part is Chinese CARE about EDUCATION.

2) As per gene, there is no such thing as Pure Chinese anyhow. Northern Chinese are different from Southern Chinese. Southern Chinese are mixed with local native for at least 1,000 years.

Dreamer


Added on August 19, 2010, 8:07 pm
QUOTE(keith_hjinhoh @ Aug 19 2010, 06:57 PM)
I for one believe, everyone is born equal. Cultural factor do not exist since the day of ice age.

Cultural is something human created, and as we aged, it becomes history and part of our everyday's practise (culture).

Someone has to starts first, before others imitates and follows.
*
keith_hjinhoh,

People has to CHOOSE to follow that culture.

By default, CULTURE dies with each generation. The NEW generation has to CHOOSE to follow it or it will be gone.

A culture has to be MEANINGFUL and RELEVANT with the NEW GENERATION or it will be gone.

All cultures have to went through this.

Dreamer



This post has been edited by dreamer101: Aug 19 2010, 08:07 PM
soul2soul
post Aug 21 2010, 09:02 AM

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I think it's a trade off. Most of the white genes are recessive genes. Black and white couple will produce a black kid.

I am speculating the whites have undergone some evolutionary path to give them some distinct nicer physical attribute. But then, we find these whites have more strange genetic diseases as compared to the other races.

Things like cystic fibrosis and all sorts of auto-immune disease are quite common in their race.
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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Jul 8 2010, 06:54 PM)

2) No for Chinese in Malaya and Singapore.  During WWII, the British ran away instead of fighting the Japanese and left the Chinese to be MASSACRED by the Japanese.  After this BETRAYAL, Chinese no longer consider the WHITE to be SUPERIOR.  During our childhood, we even have a song on this.

Dreamer
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dude, i believe the malays and indians had to fight against the japanese too.
just not as many numerically as the chinese.
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QUOTE(rvn_rvn @ Aug 21 2010, 09:21 AM)
dude, i believe the malays and indians had to fight against the japanese too.
just not as many numerically as the chinese.
*
rvn_rvn,

Dude, did 50% of the Indians and Malays in Malaya were massacred by Japanese during WWII?? They did not. Chinese did.

It is NOT the fighting that I am talking about. It is the SUFFERING.

Dreamer
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http://www.kelleyideas.com/pages/howtobeastar.html

Folks,

<< Kelley, who consults for major corporations and teaches at Carnegie Mellon University, has found that most people have their own preconceived ideas about success. They believe instinctively that the most productive white-collar workers are the ones with the highest IQ...or the most self-confidence...or the smoothest social skills. But surprisingly, none of these answers is true -- as Kelley and his colleague Janet Caplan have proven through ten years of productivity research and training at real-world organizations like AT&T's Bell Labs, 3M and Hewlett-Packard.

As Kelley explains in HOW TO BE A STAR AT WORK (Times Books/May 1998), being a star performer has little to do with your intelligence, creativity, sociability, or ambition. Once you exceed the minimum levels of these qualities needed for a particular job, there's no correlation between how smart or creative or social you are and how effective you are at work. Being a brain may land you on Jeopardy; being a schmoozer may get you invited to great parties; being a workaholic may earn you the sympathy of the overnight security guard. But none of these, even when combined into one human dynamo, necessarily create a star performer.

What distinguishes stars are the strategies they use to do their own work and to work effectively with others -- strategies that allow them to double their productivity improvement rates while working less. The fact that stars are made, not born, is great news for anyone looking to boost his or her productivity, which translates directly into better jobs, higher salaries, and a wider range of career opportunities. Through his consulting practice and through the Breakthrough training program that he and Caplan customized for Development Dimensions International, Kelley has helped hundreds of workers. He notes that his strategies have proven to be particularly valuable to women and minorities, who tend not to have as many chances to learn these strategies on the job. Members of these groups have seen their productivity improvements rates soar as much as 400% after being taught more effective work strategies. >>


Successful people make use of whatever that they have. Good and bad from their gene.

Mind over matter.

But, if you are from a culture that believe you are what you born with and there is NOTHING that you can do to improve that, you need to change your culture. Or, you are DOOM. No one else can help you.

Dreamer


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post Aug 21 2010, 11:21 AM

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Being rich and being beautiful are 2 different things.

Being rich is of course better in the world today , but I am sure people don't mind being handsome or beautiful. It confers a certain form of advantage. We tend to treat photogenic people better , and they get off with less reprimand. It's HUMAN nature.

Our mind likes certain attributes, for example guys will always prefer girls with lighter skin colour.. It's sexier. woman may prefer guys with certain facial features like chiselled look.

My friends work in advertisement industry. THey look for people with certain features to appear in their advertisement , and I don't want to sound racist, but we can see for ourselves certain ethnic group is notably absent in advertisement industry.

But I don't agree that Whites are better looking people. The Arabs and the Jews also have good facial features. The whites have very sickly skin, full of freckles and most of them are FAT, and they do look a bit of psychotic to me. (beyond those pretty faces, you just don't know what sort of personality rubbish they have behind them).

But I am happy the way I look , and I am not defensive about my look . But I won't lie to you that beauty does have its place in the Human world. Otherwise aesthetics and cosmetics industry won't thrive.


The reason most asians treat the Whites better is because of some admiration to their physical attribute subconsciously. 80% of singaporean chinese want to be a WHITE .. why?
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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 21 2010, 11:21 AM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

*
Soul2soul,

Most beautiful people tend to be Eurasians. Mixed blood between Europeans and Asians. Or mixed blood from multiple races.

Dreamer
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post Aug 22 2010, 10:26 AM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 21 2010, 07:16 PM)
Soul2soul,

Most beautiful people tend to be Eurasians.  Mixed blood between Europeans and Asians.  Or mixed blood from multiple races.

Dreamer
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Best from the both world smile.gif

btw, this thread seems getting no where already....... icon_question.gif
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One seeks to improve himself. I belief in karma. Do good and work hard, you will get here
SUSDeadlocks
post Aug 29 2010, 04:13 AM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 16 2010, 09:49 PM)
Deadlocks,

The QUESTION here is do the person BELIEVES that their inferiority is

A) Cultural

Aka, something that they can learn and overcome.

B) Genetic

Aka, they are borned with this and they could NEVER COMPETE successfully with people with SUPERIOR GENE.

Now, there are people DO NOT BELIEVE in meritocracy to begin with.  You are either born into RULING ELITE or MARRIED into RULING ELITE family or you are DOOM for life.

Dreamer
*
Even if it's GENETIC, how does it stops one from TRYING? Are there no good in the midst of bad gene pools? Are people forgetting that there are really exceptions?
dreamer101
post Aug 29 2010, 04:29 AM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Aug 29 2010, 04:13 AM)
Even if it's GENETIC, how does it stops one from TRYING? Are there no good in the midst of bad gene pools? Are people forgetting that there are really exceptions?
*
Deadlocks,

You do not get IT.

There are 2 kinds of people in the world.

1) Those that whine and believe that everything that went wrong is due to their gene.

2) Those that BELIEVE they could make a difference with their effort...

People that believe in gene DO NOT TRY at all. Hence, it is a self fulfilling prophecy. They are DOOM to fail.....

Ditto, people that believe they could do something with THEIR EFFORT will always DO SOMETHING. Hence, they could not fail....

It is ALWAYS in our mind......

We are what we CHOOSE to believe......

There are NO BAD GENE to begin with. Unless you are death because of your gene, it is always a trade off...

Let's take me as an example....

My family has VERY BAD gene on eye sight.... Me and my children are short sighted since 3 to 4 years old.. In my case, my family were so poor that I had no eye glasses. Hence, I could hardly see anything without sitting in the front row in the class. But, our BAD GENE on eye sight make us very good in hearing. Almost all in my family has PERFECT PITCH. Our gene make us good in music....

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Aug 29 2010, 04:29 AM
SUSDeadlocks
post Aug 29 2010, 08:48 PM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 29 2010, 04:29 AM)
Deadlocks,

You do not get IT.

There are 2 kinds of people in the world.

1) Those that whine and believe that everything that went wrong is due to their gene.

2) Those that BELIEVE they could make a difference with their effort...

People that believe in gene DO NOT TRY at all.  Hence, it is a self fulfilling prophecy.  They are DOOM to fail.....

Ditto, people that believe they could do something with THEIR EFFORT will always DO SOMETHING.  Hence, they could not fail....

It is ALWAYS in our mind......

We are what we CHOOSE to believe......

There are NO BAD GENE to begin with.  Unless you are death because of your gene, it is always a trade off... 

Let's take me as an example....

My family has VERY BAD gene on eye sight.... Me and my children are short sighted since 3 to 4 years old.. In my case, my family were so poor that I had no eye glasses.  Hence, I could hardly see anything without sitting in the front row in the class.  But, our BAD GENE on eye sight make us very good in hearing.  Almost all in my family has PERFECT PITCH.  Our gene make us good in music....

Dreamer
*
The idea isn't about believing that your gene is inferior hence, NOT TRYING at all. It is to understand that there are really people out there who are better, even in terms of genetic superiority, so that people will always acknowledge that they need to improve themselves.
ray123
post Sep 3 2010, 02:55 PM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Aug 29 2010, 04:13 AM)
Even if it's GENETIC, how does it stops one from TRYING? Are there no good in the midst of bad gene pools? Are people forgetting that there are really exceptions?
*
No, there is nothing stopping you from trying. Only those telling you that "you are weak, it is impossible, don't waste time, you need help all the time because you can't do anything on your own, don't bother because we know better than you," those are the people trying to stop you.

And if you believed them, then no matter what genes you have you would have failed. A person with 20/20 vision can be fooled into buying glasses, a young beauty can be taught that makeup is still essential, a person of sound mind and healthy body can be convinced that he cannot run.
The Envoy
post Sep 3 2010, 08:26 PM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 21 2010, 07:16 PM)
Soul2soul,

Most beautiful people tend to be Eurasians.  Mixed blood between Europeans and Asians.  Or mixed blood from multiple races.

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While I do share in your tastes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and varies from place to place, community to community, individual to individual and time.
Evangelistica
post Nov 17 2010, 11:59 PM

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user posted image
SUSDeadlocks
post Nov 13 2011, 01:41 PM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 29 2010, 04:29 AM)
Deadlocks,

You do not get IT.

There are 2 kinds of people in the world.

1) Those that whine and believe that everything that went wrong is due to their gene.

2) Those that BELIEVE they could make a difference with their effort...

People that believe in gene DO NOT TRY at all.  Hence, it is a self fulfilling prophecy.  They are DOOM to fail.....

Ditto, people that believe they could do something with THEIR EFFORT will always DO SOMETHING.  Hence, they could not fail....

It is ALWAYS in our mind......

We are what we CHOOSE to believe......

There are NO BAD GENE to begin with.  Unless you are death because of your gene, it is always a trade off... 

Let's take me as an example....

My family has VERY BAD gene on eye sight.... Me and my children are short sighted since 3 to 4 years old.. In my case, my family were so poor that I had no eye glasses.  Hence, I could hardly see anything without sitting in the front row in the class.  But, our BAD GENE on eye sight make us very good in hearing.  Almost all in my family has PERFECT PITCH.  Our gene make us good in music....

Dreamer
*
The idea isn't about believing that your gene is inferior hence, NOT TRYING at all. It is to understand that there are really people out there who are better, even in terms of genetic superiority, so that people will always acknowledge that they need to improve themselves.
budi_89
post Dec 3 2011, 03:59 PM

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How about this statement? We are the human race.
studilicious
post Dec 6 2011, 03:20 PM

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QUOTE(keith_hjinhoh @ Aug 19 2010, 06:57 PM)
I for one believe, everyone is born equal. Cultural factor do not exist since the day of ice age.

Cultural is something human created, and as we aged, it becomes history and part of our everyday's practise (culture).

Someone has to starts first, before others imitates and follows.
*
Yes, culture are human-made and is a way for human to improve their lives.

Culture is what makes human unique because of the diversity of culture that we have.



SUSDeadlocks
post Dec 9 2011, 10:37 PM

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QUOTE(budi_89 @ Dec 3 2011, 03:59 PM)
How about this statement? We are the human race.
*
Do you really think that way? Then how come you have more friends which came from a specific race than any other race?

QUOTE(studilicious @ Dec 6 2011, 03:20 PM)
Yes, culture are human-made and is a way for human to improve their lives.

Culture is what makes human unique because of the diversity of culture that we have.
*
Be wary of how you use the word "diversity". While you think it makes you unique because of your culture, you will reject other so-called diversities because they CONFLICT with your culture norms and beliefs.
aimank_88
post Dec 9 2011, 11:06 PM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 29 2010, 04:29 AM)

Ditto, people that believe they could do something with THEIR EFFORT will always DO SOMETHING.  Hence, they could not fail....

It is ALWAYS in our mind......

We are what we CHOOSE to believe......

*
IMO, this debate is going no where.

But anyways, we are, what we choose to believe, and cultural diversity is always there since the birth of civilization, the only problem depends on how each and every individual deciphers and accepts other cultural ways. Its just a matter of acceptance. I cant accept you, so you just have to accept me. In comes with the ego, superiority complex, educational debates, and so on and so forth.
LightningFist
post Dec 10 2011, 02:42 AM

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Interesting topic.
Critical_Fallacy
post Dec 12 2011, 03:03 PM

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QUOTE(LightningFist @ Dec 10 2011, 02:42 AM)
Interesting topic.

Much to my amazement, your post is as interesting as the two-time Pulitzer Prize winner, Edward O.Wilson once said, Today the greatest divide within humanity is not between races, or religions, or even, as widely believed, between the literate and illiterate. It is the chasm that separates scientific from pre-scientific cultures.

 

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