Hello, I presume you clicked this thread due to the thread title which might have caught your attention, and no it's not a prank, it's something which I MIGHT be going through, and I will really appreciate and positive and constructive comments from anyone of you.

To give you a brief insight of what is this all about, I have currently two options to go for:-

1) United Kingdom - University College London
2) Singapore - National University of Singapore

Fyi, I'm going to pursue economics in both university, where I have already secured unconditional offers from. I have applied to almost every available scholarship out there which provides overseas education funding/sponsorship, but so far the chances of securing one seems to be diminishing, and it has come to my realization that I'm in need of a back up plan, because I do not want to jeopardize the dream which I have planned and worked hard for so long already.

So, in order to finance my study in UK, I have calculated a rough estimation of 400k (at the current currency exchange rate) for my 3 years study there which ought to be pretty sufficient for my life in London, where the first 200k would come from a loan through Bank Rakyat - offering a max of 200k loan with a 7.45% interest rate p.a and a repayment of 15 years, and on my second year onwards I'll apply for JPA overseas loan which covers the 2 years remaining tuition fee which is interest free at the repayment of 20 years. The remainder of the figure might come from family/relative borrowings, which sums up to 400k.

Generally speaking, I'm more inclined towards the education in UK, and I'll base this on the following reasons;

1) UK's wage rate are much higher. If I were to study there, chances are rather high that I will work there, or rather I should say, I must work there. The weekly wage rate would be around 600GBP and above (so i've heard) which I believe is more than enough to cover the installment of the debts I owe, in terms of ringgit. I understand that if I were to come back and work here instead, I'll probably be buried alive by the debts I have incurred, so it would be a dumb idea if I chose to return.

2) Of course you may want to mention that competition are tough, especially when one is an international student who will be competing with the locals (UK citizens). But the uni I'll be attending - UCL in this case actually have a report which tabulated a 95% of their candidates were able to secured a job successfully after graduation (some even before graduation) I believe there is a certain amount of credentials from that report, judging that it's one of the highly ranked universities.

3) The experience - yes, something that I've been wanting for a change! I'm so accustomed to Malaysian's lifestyle and I really want a change be it in environment or the people around me, to learn things and explore things and the world on my own, where I believe it'll leave a great impact on me, and in everything! Plus the fact that I'm enrolled in the uni which is ranked the 4th of in the world (according to Times Higher Education) is what intrigued me to study there even more!

However, my concerns are as follows;

1) How difficult is it to secure an employment opportunity in the UK? My friend told me that the new prime minister is a conservative, and conservative do not favor migrants. Is it really that difficult for a foreigner to secure a job there, even if I graduated from their local college/uni? Especially when I'm in the field of economics?

2) Is it worth to spend 15-20 years to repay ur debts for only 3 years of education? But then again, since interest rates are fixed and if the UK currency appreciates or there's mild inflation by the time I'm working there, I repay less in real term (in terms of pounds to ringgit), so may I argue that it could be a positive investment in the long run?

3) The risk involved. Yes, economy changes very fast, and like I mentioned earlier the JPA oversea loan would only be available on my 2nd year onwards, and because they have a rather closed policy in working at things, I am afraid that such schemes might not be available by the time I reached my second year, though they are actually recommending people to opt for that schemes when a student are unable to secure an overseas scholarship.

So, what should I do? I'm still applying to any scholarships available out there, in fact I might be writing letter/emails soon to big corporation asking for sponsorship, though that could be quite unlikely, but I just want you guys to know that, I really worked hard to achieve my grades, and obtained admissions from some fairly reputable universities. In fact I'm even willing to take the risk even if it might seem to be a road with no return, call it stubborn or adamant, but it has become more than just a goal I wish to achieve, it's something that I want to achieve.

Note: I'm a self financed student, I don't think my parents financial circumstances would be able to support my tertiary education, be it locally or abroad, but all these would not deter me from laying down my goals.

Oh btw, for an education in singapore, if you guys are aware, it has lesser risk involved, and an easier plus better financial aid schemes which is not offered unlike UCL, since it's a need-blind university, but as you can see, I'm still more inclined towards the education in the UK. So... opinion and advices please

I would suggest you to go for NUS
once NUS offered you,SG government will surely provide you with the scholarships,with the condition to work with them after you've graduated.
earning sing dollars is not bad too
i don't know what you have studied for your pre-u,but if you took STPM or a-levels,im sure you can apply scholarships from those local banks as long as your results is outstanding(4As)..

As a casual observer posting comments, I would say go to NUS. It is a very reputable university and if you are as good as you say you are, Singapore government would nurture you further after your 1st degree.

Seriously If I were u... I don't want to spend 400k for my study.... 400k... That's too much....

Hutang Menimbun-nimbun

-del-

This post has been edited by edge_seraph: Jan 27 2011, 02:32 PM

the path to ucl is full of uncertainties...
it's hard for an international student to work there...the company will need to do a lot in order to hire you..there's a chance if u are really good in your field..

however go to nus is way safer...the tuition grant, financial aids...of course it does not offer as much as uk does, but still it is a highly-developed country..you can move to uk if u wan after graduate in sg..

i think jpa does offer some sort of Ivy League scholarship, isn't it? don't know the details though.

bro,u go study there first.struggle kat sana.once u got ur 1st exam transcript,post it to jpa.imo,they will consider to give u scholarship if your average marks are great.if not,then say bye2 to scholarship la.

u dun have to work there permanently.cari la big company yg ade branches here at msia.work there until u can pay for your debts+duit lebih sket then come back to msia and work here la.if everybody dun want to help tanah tumpah darah,how msia wanna improve?i'm a sponsored student so i'm using duit RAKYAT.hence,i need to tabur jasa balik to msians who helped me a lot :-)

I personally think TS is already set his mind to go to UK anyway

I personally would rather not be 400k in debt for a piece of UCL degree if I can get one for free from NUS.

I took A level, and I've scored straight Aces as well. Obtaining scholarships from local banks are not as easy as it sound, same applies to big corporation scholarships as well. A lot of factors have to be taken into consideration as well.


Yes I know that it's a good university and everything, NUS was more of a back up choice in the sense that, if all else fails I'll head to NUS. But still, I don't know why I'm just more inclined towards UK

Call it an investment for my future, it might be a huge amount for now, but who knows 1 day it will yield something far greater than that?

Thanks, apparently I think most people, including me, are intimidated by the fact of loaning 400k on my tertiary, it's a very big risk involved actually.


Yes, applied the Ivy Leagues as well, too bad my course is not under the course of sponsorship this year, plus they only have about places for 30 students this year. I understand that NUS is highly reputable, but like I said i'm just more inclined towards western education? Hmmm.. big dilemma here..

The jpa scholarship don't sponsor people who started their course overseas (so i've heard) yeah agree, but finding a job there itself is pretty hard, especially if you're a foreigner. I will come back to malaysia definitely, but I wish to explore the world now as I go on.

Well, think if you're able to pay back the money if you're unemployed for the first 6 months upon your graduation from the UK - unless your results are outstanding, which means you would have no problem gaining scholarship in the first place? - would you able to pay back? I ahve lots of friends in the UK struggling to find jobs after graduating, even with Masters. But some of them got lucky, of course Some just, came back.

Is it cos you wanna go to UK, due to it's higher class? Please, don't think like that. You can always pursue Masters in the UK after you're done with your degree locally, or in NUS. Esp when you said you're self financing yourself. I am one of them that took ptptn loan and survived 3 years with it (1st year foundation fee, i worked part time), without taking a single cent from my parents (pocket money from ptptn excess). Now, i am paying back 50k borrowed for the next 15 years. No regrets.

Weigh the pros and cons.

If you can afford, go for UK.

If hesitating, or worried shit happens (what if halfway no money, how ah?), what would you do? Plan B.

etc...

What did your folks say about it?

ccm123,

It is VERY SIMPLE. It is NOT worth the money to spend 400K in an undergraduate degree. Especially, economy degree. You will NEVER earn enough to pay back. Go to NUS.

A) If you are GOOD, you can get scholarship to study your master or Phd. Then, you can go to UK.

B) If you are NO GOOD, you have not spend 400K.

There are MASSIVE lay off in financial sector. And, that area probably will be in bad shape for many many years. So, getting job with economy degree is NOT EASY any where in the world. UK has massive unemployment NOW too.

Dreamer

Recent changes in UK immigrations law forbid non-EU students (bachelors and lower) to work part time during their studies.

They used to allow non-EU students working up to 20 hrs a week, but a lot of them abuse it by working more than that and skip classes.

UK is in recession now, you can tell by the current exchange rate. :-) But who knows, maybe after you graduate, things get better.

I would not exactly call a basic 1st degree investment grade, not even from Ivy league. To get to real investment grade (say....MBA from Harvard?), you need to go further and if you have problem financing your 1st degree, why consider UK?

Like I said, Singapore have money and they are willing to spend those money on talent and if you got your 1st degree with flying color, I am sure you stand a far greater chance of securing further nurturing from Sing government. Free of charge. Like i said, consider NUS as 1st choice instead.

unless i am sure that my job can provide me those returns in less than 5 years, i don't think i will go for rm400k debt for education

Source? I dont recall that change to the immigration law

i know giving up a UCL offer (and the experiences it brings) just because of your financial problem sucks. but rm400k debt after graduate, while you don't even guaranteed a job in uk? you shouldn't take such risk.

http://www.ukcisa.org.uk/student/working_during.php

What kind of work can I do during my studies?
If you have student immigration permission that allows you to take employment, you can work up to 20 hours (in some cases, up to 10 hours) a week during term-time. You can work full-time during your holidays and on work placements. More information in 'What kind of work?'

Can I work an average of 10 or 20 hours a week?
No. If you work more than 10 or 20 hours in any week in term-time (and you are not doing a work placement for your course or an internship), you are in breach of your immigration conditions, even if you work fewer than 10 or 20 hours in other weeks. More information about how many hours a week you can work in 'What kind of work?'

If you can get funding, even if its half... Go for UK. Trust me once you pass thru to masters get a big IB job and you're good. Thing is right now till then, work on your salesman skill and how to live like a wealthy man- junior analyst jobs are glorified salesman (who earn more than any fella here replying to this thread).

kaiserwulf,

You DO KNOW that even IB are being lay off now.... And, I do not believe the good time will ever return again.

Dreamer

Well for me it's just not worth it putting yourself in such a debt for an Undergraduate Degree, it's great if you can afford it but putting yourself in debt for it is not such a great move in life in my opinion.The path of going to UCL is full of uncertainties and it'll take you a very very long time to pay back those debts. NUS is already a great University even if you have to settle for less then UCL but it's still a very reputable University, you don't want to regret this move later in life when reality hits you after you graduate with huge debts and very uncertain abilities to pay them. Do not be so optimistic when looking at the future and what if your application for a JPA Loan got rejected later on in your second year? Remember there's a lot of Malaysians going overseas each year, a good number of them to critical courses and great universities as well and a good amount of them will want to get that loan as well.

400k for degree in economics is not worth it.Do you realise that with 400k you can even take MBBS in malaysia...IMU MBBS cost 350k...while AIMST will be much cheaper.

NUS all the way, and this is coming from a current UCL student.

firstly, keep in mind that the 95% of graduates who were offered a job includes those who went back. If you ask anyone who is applying for jobs in the UK right now, getting a job in any sector other than finance is an uphill struggle and it will only get worse.

secondly, you do not want to be limited by a set budget in the most expensive city in the world. In the event of something going wrong, you won't have backup. For instance, one of my classmates lost everything when her flat burned down a couple of months ago. Luckily, she's from sweden so affording a new wardrobe, laptop etc. wasnt too much of a stretch.

Work on getting scholarships for the UK, but if you cant... take the NUS route.

just my two cents

Since you have obviously done some decent research and planning b4 coming up to this post. I may highlight some WCGW (what could go wrong),food for thought :
1) Wage rate : Yeah it may be higher but I am sure you are aware of tax right ? UK tax rate is exceptionally high compared to other countries. And if I am not mistaken, its even higher for foreign residents. So your net pay will not be much. And living cost there is not cheap either although inflation is lower.

2) 95% secured what job ? You have low, medium, high ranked jobs not to mention is permanent or temporary taken into account ? How about the remaining 5%, do you think you "may" be one of them ? And not to mention, like MYS, if you are son of an Earl, Sir, Lord, Duke,.... your employment chances are higher too. So inequality bound to persist as very country does have some domestic biasness.

3) Culture huh ? Its good to learn other culture but getting acknowledged or recognised is different issue. Will you be able to blend in immediately ? Well judging from some Uk college/ uni students comments, british generally think highly of themselves especially compared to students from commonwealth. And our education method geared and favours "quantity", number of A's. Theirs more to quality based, which hardwork < analytical thinking. More all rounded. So not easy to adapt quickly.

Your concern :
1) And UK are crazy with their post graduate programme especially anything to do with charter body, so without one it is quite less appealing there :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_..._United_Kingdom

2) Will your future job be able to pay off your debts ? Have you checked what type of job that you can do ? Which and what type of company you can enter ?

3) This is rather risky as bond or scholarship will bound to have many terms and regulations. One may never know what they may incorporate inside. How about coming back straight after finish studying ?

Anyway, hope you will choose wisely. Your future beckons.

This post has been edited by Topace111: May 23 2010, 09:18 PM

I agree with Syd G. TS seems to set his mind to go UK anyway.

I don't know if I'm old fashioned or outdated but here's my take.Technically, I would say it's an insane move to take 400k of debt for a piece of paper.TS stated it as investment for future.

Even then, he cant confirm whether in future, he can yield in something greater than that.It's a big risky "investment"

The 400k as stated, is pure loan fund, excluding interest.If the interest rate is 7.45% as stated, for more than 15years(20years for JPA loan), then it's far greater than just 400k in debt.You do the maths.

TS also stated that The remainder of the figure might come from family/relative borrowings, which sums up to 400k.So, in conclusion, you owe more than three parties money for the sake of studying overseas.

TS then followed up with his reasons of why he is keen on a UK move rather than a SG move.

Firstly,mathematically, you might be able to pay the debts by working there.However, I think you should have taken everything in consideration before you make your decisions,including the future uncertainty.No one is sure of the future.Now and then, the cost of living is increasing and whether you can earn that much to repay your debt remains unknown.On paper, it sounds possible.In reality, it might not be the case.If I'm not mistaken, they just enforced a new tax rate that is much heavier than previous years, you might not be able to earn much anyway.Go and check it out yourself.Try ask google.

Secondly,If you are talking about just securing job, NUS grads secured their job successfully after graduation with no problem.That can't be the reason why you are going there, isn't it?

No one is denying you a chance to experience the new environment in a new country.Like most have suggested, you can take your master in UK instead of spending 3 years in UK and get yourself in a huge debt.Or you can choose to do twinning(not sure if your course have it) like 2+1 ...which spend lesser time there and indirectly reduce the cost.It's common sense that the longer you are staying there, the more money you will have to spend.

I don't know what happens to kids nowadays.You are not the first I met that took bank loan for the sake of studying overseas.There is this one malay saying that you guys fail to understand. "Ukur baju di badan sendiri".If you can't afford, dont go for it.You think only you will suffer.You forget though, that your parents have to suffer with you because of your unrealistic dream of experiencing new place to study.The financial burden on them, can you imagine?


I have no intention to change your mind as I can see you are all set and pretty determined to go there but let me just tell you one simple thing.

Ranked 1st university or not, new environment or not,you will be in heavy debt.That's for sure.You graduate,come out after enjoying 3 years, experiencing new stuff but you suffer for the next 15-20 years because of your debt.While your friends who grads from local uni which do not even ranked in top100 university, enjoying their life like usual...Buy new car, buy new house...and you?Just another oversea grads heavily in debt.

P.S: Meant no offense but that's reality you should know.

This post has been edited by solstice818: May 23 2010, 09:29 PM

The answer is a simple no, the white has taken the wealth of our nation since colonised era, I couldnt find a reason to convince myself to give more $ to them.
By the way, taking the risk beyond what you can control is not "INVESTMENT", it's called "GAMBLE".

This post has been edited by Critical: May 23 2010, 09:45 PM

Second that.

I don't like London (2x rusher than KL), I studied there for few months for accounting course, and work as a waiter (which is way faster) to cover back all my study fees.

IMO...try to get the JPA scholarship for UCL..they do offer for top unis..

but i've seen many people..one of my relative included..really got into massive debts to send their children to overseas to study..

they not only borrow from banks..but from friends/relatives as well..

all hoping one day that their child will successfully graduate and pay back everything..

so if u take the loan..by all means go where ever u want..

but please don't forget those who spent their time/money/blood just to fund u so that u can fulfill ur dreams..

paying back the debts is one thing...

but hopefully u will come back to malaysia when u earned to enough to spend more time with those who sacrificed so much for u..

my 2 cents..=)

400k is too much for plain education. for much less, we can learn so much more if we work instead or even if we choose to study in a different manner (apart from enrolling in an expensive uni) money isnt everything when it comes to education, it is merely a token to guarantee you'd learn something for it.... for the price you pay, they make sure you graduate.. thats all.. just my 2 cents..

btw, try broaden you search, give yourself more options rather than just 2 unis.. there are many more unis in the uk that are good in economics studies (eg. cass business school) with lower fees

This post has been edited by siokjinlim: May 23 2010, 10:31 PM

Go NUS, use the 400k(or the amount of $$ you have) to invest in forex or property, work after completing your degree.

Gain working experience , get your company to sponsor you to continue post grad studies at UK.

Then save up money to migrate to UK.

agree with kirii here. With the EU in doldrums and unemployment rate rising. The EU is a stagnant economy and it would be better to work in Singapore which is also easier for you to adapt.

I did not get any outstanding results like the best in the world/malaysia for any subject but generally, I've straight Aces in all my subjects, even in the all the papers as well (except for 1 paper out of 15). As for SPM, I have also scored 11A1, 1B3 in Chinese. I am not trying to brag or boast anything at all, but I would say I have a relatively fine academic records.

Speaking of scholarship, yes. I would say even if I have quite a slightly above average co-curricular records in high school, some scholarships I've applied rejected me even before an interview was conducted. And most of them were financed directly the government, I do believe part of the reasons is due to certain "pre-determined-quota", however this is just a baseless assumption only. And no, despite facing many rejections, I hope there is still some positive replies out there, which as of now, I have heard nothing from.


Yes, I'm trying hard on that, umm mind if I ask, are you a current UCL student?

Hei. Your reply actually struck me really hard. It seems that I have been over confidently naive and ignorant, or I may have look at the world today too optimistically. But if we are talking about logic, forking out 400k and be heavily indebted for a student is obviously a completely ridiculous, if not absurd move.

I did consider the circumstances ahead, the possibility of me screwing up, but deep down in me there is a dream, a dream I aspire to accomplish. Aren't great things accomplished when people have a great dream? I may put my family and the people around me in great distress should I fail (yes, a very selfish way to say it) but IF things worked out, I could be enjoying an entirely new lifestyle. Of course nobody knows the future, this thing seems to be too much of a risk for somebody like me, if anything goes wrong, I might end up at the wrong side of the road.

Yet, trust me, I'm still considering my options now, which was why this thread was started in the first place. As much as my heart tells me to go there, but the logic in me is constantly baffling me, to decide between dream or reality..

ccm123,

<<I did consider the circumstances ahead, the possibility of me screwing up, but deep down in me there is a dream, a dream I aspire to accomplish. Aren't great things accomplished when people have a great dream?>>

Pardon me. You are CONFUSING your REAL DREAM with going to UK.

YOU REAL DREAM and GOAL is to get a GOOD JOB in economic area. Perhaps as an investment banker and so on. Maybe, even working in UK. It is NOT getting an economic degree from UCL. That is just a STEP to your FINAL GOAL.

There are MANY WAYS to achieve YOUR REAL DREAM and GOAL. UCL is just one of the ways. It is NOT the only way.

Now, to really get where you want to go, you need a MASTER DEGREE. Undergraduate degree is NOT good enough. In fact, by spending 400K for your undergraduate degree, you will have a lot more problem financing your master degree. Hence, you will face a lot more obstacle in getting your master and achieve your final goal.

In Sun Tzu's "Art of War",

A) Do not fight unless you can win

B) Do not expend all your resources on inter-mediate battles.

C) Not fighting is not equal to losing. It simply means that you are conserving your resource to fight when you can win.

Dreamer

P.S.: When you asked the WRONG question, you will NEVER get the RIGHT answer!!! In this case, the RIGHT questions are

A) What is MY FINAL GOAL??

B) What is the BEST WAY to get there??

C) What gives me the BEST CHANCE to get there??

So far, you are asking all the WRONG QUESTIONS!!!

This post has been edited by dreamer101: May 24 2010, 12:06 AM

I would not spend 400k on my degree if i were you. Sometimes people tend to think that Malaysia is hell, and foreign countries are all paradise.

Borrowing money from bank in order to further study in overseas is actually not a wise idea. You should know that not everything will go on as what you've expected. What if something's gone wrong during your period of studying ? What if you can't find a highly paid job in UK after graduation ?

If you really borrow loan from bank, you will be a debtor. Just try to think about it. You have not yet graduated, and yet you're already a debtor who has RM400k loan to pay back ? Do you really want to spend so many years to pay back the money which is used to get a degree in 3 years ? Does it worth ?

I would suggest you to choose NUS as it is highly ranked in Times Ranking 2009. Besides, the currency rate of SGD is 2 times lower than GBP.

The risks are definitely there and frankly, I think the percentage of you getting things right(as in staying debt-free after grads) is pretty low.Not that I'm looking down at you but it's very competitive there and if you are planning to work part time over there, I'm pretty sure it will somehow affect your studies in some way(even if it's a little)

My advise is don't listen to your heart.Use your brain to think the rational side of everything.

This post has been edited by solstice818: May 24 2010, 12:58 AM

erm, im pretty sure i already said i was in my first post.

FYI, I havent met anyone doing econs on a JPA scholarship. GLCs, yes. Give Petronas or Bank Negara a shot

I will try to put you in the right perspective. First of all, trying to finance your studies with a 100% third party financing is totally absurd. Since you are interested in economics, simple economics will tell you this is a "very, very high risk venture". Moreover, being a first degree undergraduate will not put you way ahead of other graduates. You should also understand it will give you a head start over other graduates but the starting pay would not be very much different from the other graduates. And you have to work your way up which would take you at least a 5 years period to prove that you are "good material" which is worth nurturing.

You should also bear in mind that an economics graduate from UK will not open many options for you. You are neither an accountant as the most you can get from some of the professional bodies is some paper exemptions. In the UK also, before you can opt to take the Chartered Accountants exam you will need to be a first degree holder first and the big firms there would only consider you if you are first class degree holder.

If you also harbour hopes of joining the top merchant banks like Goldman Sach, Morgan Stanley or Credit Suisse, these firms need any additional qualifications which would require further investments in your education and push you further into debts.

I do agree with the other commenters that NUS would be a much better choice as their qualifications are also world ranked.

Why choose economics and not accounting and finance as the options are much greater here?

Economists merely expresses opinions and they dont create values while finance graduates can identify good investment opportunities.

crazy.. 400 k for juz a education... i duno how long i can earn bck 400 k...

Young man do you know how much is RM400k ? You assume you can repay it off by working in UK etc etc. Wait till you start paying. Only then you will realize the true value of what RM400k is worth. Make the decision yourself.

But dont regret it when you become a slave to work due to repaying that HUGE LOAN.

400k is nothing compared to those who spent rm1 million to do medic/dentistry at uk/australia..

NUS man!

the reasons? well all the previous posters did a superb job of explaining them, so i wont cover what's been said.

- Singapore's not bad AT ALL! Racism will probably be the last thing you should worry about. I dont think Brits are 'that' kind to foreigners, especially Asians.

- So u wanna experience so-called 'western culture'.
You can do that even if u graduated from NUS. Travelling around the world is so common nowadays, and the airplane tickets are pretty affordable!
Travelling once a year to a different country sounds cool.
If u were in debt, how ya gonna travel? you're gonna work like a horse!

Theres nothing wrong with spending on education but if i were to spend 400k for my tertiary edu, i damn make sure i'll never come back to this shithole.

Oh dear, spending way beyond your means, and hoping to pay off all your debts based on overly optimistic future predictions... isn't that the reason the world got into this economic mess?

You really shouldn't think about being an economist if this is your plan. The US is still hurting while the PIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Greece, Spain) are dragging Europe down. This is the worst possible moment to be spending large amounts of money.

is that RM1 million loan or scholarship ?
taking RM400k loan for a degree is absurd IMO.
i mean RM400k is A LOT of money.

IMO, there are other ways to get comparable degree in much cheaper way like previous posters mentioned.

erm...father & mother scholarship...some get loans...

i see many of my friends go uk and australia study like dun need money one...

either their parents rich......(which i doubt for some of my friends)...or they get loans..

some parents also withdrawed every single cent to fund their children..

so if one day that child don't want to pay back to his/her parents..they really have nothing to eat liao...

Me, myself is studying in Australia. Seriously u need to think more than twice about studying abroad if u were to make loan to support ur studies. Make assumption on worst situation such as parents get sick as they get older, u failed subjects (dun underestimate course) etc. Unless ur parents prepare a sum of money for themselves, otherwise opt for NUS which is really another fantastic uni and it is affordable too! Try not to make loan for studies. My piece of advice.

My opinion,

400k ?!? That's bloody expensive and judging by the different loans you take?

Think about the repaying the loan part in the future?

and there's no certainty you'll get a wonderful job as what u planned.

sometimes all the things in your life just happens differently from your plan.

if you're going for 3 years at UK, judging on 2012 olympic

the currency defenitely gonna raise from 4.x to 5.x. And if that happens, you're doomed.



What i suggest to you, is either take a diploma

and go for top up university at UK where you can get a degree through top up final year programme which you can finish it for a year only.

hrmm... if self funding NUS is the wiser choice. Invest in a masters in UK.

If TS dun mind, I wish to tumpang thread (do tell me if you wan the post removed):

2 choices for MechEng, Nottingham Malaysia and NUS.. Any inputs? I'm also waiting for IPTA. I'm having a conflict b/w the education (and it's post-degree options) and the university-life experience.

This post has been edited by DJFoo000: May 24 2010, 04:29 PM

@zstan
its true 400k is nothing compared to 1million. BUT!!!! TS is BORROWING THE MONEY ! If you are unable to get a job in the UK (you may think you can but actually thinking you may get a job and getting a job is 2 different things) and you have to come back to malaysia and work, thats the end of your life.

Judging by the interest rate and the earning wages in Malaysia, you will have to work until maybe 30 or possibly 35 with minimal spendings (savings of maybe up to 75% of your monthly salary) to fully repay your loans.

Even if you are able to secure a job in UK, the taxes there will directly impact your income. Dont forget you will need to apply for PR/VISA/whatever to work in the UK and this is not necessarily bourne by your employer (my friend told me the current rates as of late 2009 is GBP4k to get a so called permit (forgot what is the name of the document) to be allowed to stay in the UK and job hunt after ur studies.

Being young, if you do not have any burdens etc, I would recommend you to take the gamble and try to get a job in the UK. But if you are BORROWING the money, my suggestion, go to singapore.

Why are you guys hugging with the number 400k? Like I mentioned, it's more than that for that high interest rate and years of payment...probably near 800-900k.Didn't really count it.Just roughly estimate.

Seconded solstice818. TS, u are going to study economic and generally economists assume everything is rational. Think of ur opportunity cost of further ur studies in UK. Many of us here had given u their thought and it is totally up to ur decision. Hope all of us helped u in a way. Cheers~

Think about your parents la, I'm sure you don't want them to be worry about you. Do you really think your parents will sit still while their son is trying every single means to pay back his loan? Do you think they won't be worry about you if you get loan or something? DO you seriously want to live thru the study years thinking about loan repayment in the future?

95% of employment yeah~God knows whether you'll be the lucky 5%. Don't be overconfident in doing anything. There's always another plan if you are willing to think and think. You planned and you over-planned, you should really take into account the financial situation, this is the worst nightmare that haunt every student who wishes to further their education, not just overseas, local as well. Lots of students who get excellent results but are held back due to their financial situations. Yet, they try to find an alternative, a cheaper yet logical alternative that is affordable. Getting a degree in Malaysia isnt that bad afterall. God knows maybe you'll be the lucky 1% who earns a lot in the future with a degree in malaysia.

This post has been edited by justamember: May 24 2010, 09:47 PM

If you want top qualification, then can consider these :
CFA in US
ICAEW in UK/Europe.

Both are the top qualifications recognised in those zones. CFA is the golden passport for investment banking and corporate finance in any country. ICAEW churns 5 times more CEOs & CFOs in europe than all qualifications, degree, master or phd combined. And they dont even cost RM75,000 but minimum qualification is a degree (any field).

Personal experience, similar in terms of magnitude but not much else. I paid roughly RM400k for my education this year, this is an MBA from a top 5 b-school. I'm not however taking a lot of loans and I expect my ROI to be less than 3 years.

As much as I think UCL will be better than NUS, paying RM400k for an undergrad degree is a lot and taking it all as loans is risky as hell. I agree with a lot of what's been said here, particularly dreamer. Your undergraduate is not the most important step in your educational journey. Do your undergraduate at NUS, get some work experience, then spend that RM400k on a top notch MBA. You'll make your money back in no time.

i really think TS just want to go to UK. if i were u, i rather go to NUS. the rezen is the same as other said..

furthermore, i dont want to be abandoned by the huge debt... so hard to pay back...

but like what zstan said, some even spend 1m to do their medic/dentistry.. so 400k is lower (a bit~) than 1m... if u REALLY feel that u can do it, then just go for it...
remember to consider all the circumstances,..

this is just from an spm leaver, cant help u much, juz giving my opinion...

Gud luck btw, hope u'll find your right path!!

unless you're doing medicine/dentistry..forget it.

1) With the new government in place, chances are for you to secure a work visa or post study work visa through a degree would be really slim. The minimum education threshold for some of the visas are now Masters.

2) 95% is a marketing gimmick anyway and don't forget unless if you're the top tier students in the university, you would still need to compete with Oxbridge graduates, UCL, Imperial graduates, LSE and so on. These universities are equally good.

A degree from UCL is NOT a ticket to employment, it only gives you a better chance.

Even universities like UCL want or shall we say need oversea students because you'll be paying 3 times the fees of the locals. They need to make money.

3) You forgotten about the tax, which most people predict is going to rise. Also, don't forget the living costs in London.

4) If I were you, I would do my degree in NUS and my Masters elsewhere, i.e. in the UK. This would give you a better chance of securing a job here as well.

This post has been edited by Geminist: May 25 2010, 12:59 AM

NUS.
if ur idea were to earn $$ GBP in the future, u wil hv thousands of idea earning more than GBP600 a week somewhere else. more educated person din proof to be a richer man. working there simply full of uncertainties which made it an extremely high risk no-go investment, mb I shud say gamble? only thing certain is, even ur plan works out as planned, u wil be in debt for a few years til ur 30 years old mb (if lucky). totally dun under estimate the cost of living there. for a few years of bread and cereals there, u would be able to enjoy good meal with whole of ur family every weekend. plus, u dunwanna come back frm uk realising how much priceless moment u've missed with ur family.

if ur idea were to experience study life in UK, u would hv the chance after graduated in singapore, after few years working, bored and you can study master in UK, in case you were to apply loan, u would at least have higher ability in paying back the debt. seriously for me, degree doesnt mean much when u came to the real working world, for 400k of degree, I would rather invest in properties or equities.

if ur idea were to be recognised, no genious has spent so much to be well-known. a RM50k ACCA or CFA or ICAEW etc etc worth much higher recognition compared to an abroad degree, cz the course is real tough with passing rate lower than 10% sometimes and reflects the complex reality of global finance, not bcz its expansive. true knowledge is not learned in the university, it's only when you've on the battle field.

I was used to think of taking loans and study abroad too, but when I look at the overall picture and ask myself what do I actually want in the end, it simply doesnt make sense to tight the wings by debts when it's time to learn flying.

ofcz it's stil possible, nothing is impossible. its for u to think whether worth it anot. good luck!

This post has been edited by Aster66: May 25 2010, 11:07 AM

Hello people, after reading all the comments and replies, I believe the rational side of me finally took over. I was aiming to go UK even before I begun my A levels, and it took me 2 years to lay out my plan, this beautiful plan of mine.

My plan was to do very well in A level, get an offer from a relatively good uni, and ultimately obtain a scholarship. But guess I screwed up the last stage, nonetheless, there is still a glimpse of hope, and I hope some miracle would appear.

It was not easy for me to crush my own dreams because I really want to spend 3 years of my education in a country that I believe could further shape me better, though many of you would say this could be done anywhere else as well. It's just my preference and perception in this sense, because I believe there are more to offer out there. Again, this is my perception, I don't have to explain that don't I.

I understand that, but admission for international students are highly sought after as well. Each year, there were about 2k+ candidates applying for that course, only 200 made it, and out of that 200 only consist about only 20% internationals.

People, let me just make myself clear. I am not being selfish/not thinking about my parents, if not this thread wouldn't be started in the first place. A part of me knew that I needed a wake up call, despite being blinded by my own fantasy. Let's just put it this way, sometimes when we have an aim, don't you think we should try to accomplish it, at least for once in our life, regardless of what people thinks? Didn't the wright brothers subsequently invented the airplane, which was deemed completely absurd and irrational once before?

I am not proving anything people, I know in the world today, we have to succumb ourselves to logic and rationality in order to survive, what I'm trying to do was to achieve something I wanted badly, but then I agreed on the many points brought up by many of you, I guess I have to re-consider the entire option, because really, I haven't think on so much for the consequences.

So in conclusion, I shall choose NUS at the moment, unless...... if God's willing and miracle happened, there goes one dream of mine. And it is by far the only goal that I deeply want to accomplish.

my bf always tell me one window closed is for the another window to open. there will be smthg waiting for u whichever road u choose. I dun feel good at all when I put down my fantastic plan tho, but this doesnt mean I dun hv a plan right? wht u thinking is wht i went thro lolz

a 8 yr old kid used to keep telling his mother, I wanna be on top of the moon, pointing his little finger to the TV. his mother nv laugh as others did, so be him, he's the first man who landed on moon in 1969.

The hardest thing is living with rational without giving ur dream. lead by dream but not live for dream.

This post has been edited by Aster66: May 25 2010, 11:38 AM

Yes, I agree with you, but someday I know I will achieve my goals, and thanks for the motivating message

but there are different ways of achieveing ur goals...

cheap ways..and expensive ways..

in the end..u will still reach ur final destination if u r good and the chance arises....

A person without dream is like a body without soul.A corpse.Read through your blog and knew how hard is it for you to get accepted into UCL but I hope the rational side of you put the most important things ahead of just fantasy and dream.Wishing you all the best and may the miracle you are hoping on, happens

Hey TS,

Just wondering. If you spent all that money and be stuck with a job that you hate in Malaysia for 10-15 years just because u need to pay back your loan, would you still do it?

---

Added on May 25, 2010, 12:14 pmI think it's easier to get into UCL for postgrad. azarimy got into UCL's Bartlett with 3.0 CGPA degree from UTM only
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...&#entry30380700


This post has been edited by Syd G: May 25 2010, 12:15 PM

Hello ccm123,

I have been following your post with great interest and came to realize that most replies offered were given by people of older ages (one even from an spm-freshie!). For a change, I am here as a person who is in the same situation as yourself.

Similarly, I have been offered a conditional place by UCL for it's Engineering course along by a university in the United States with a ranking of Top 5 for that particular Engineering course. Our similarities do not end there, for I have fared slightly above average in my academic results (10A1 in SPM) and was denied of every scholarship application, although I have nothing positive or negative to comment about that. We live in a country where academic excellence accompanied with satisfying co-curricular records are blurred by the colour of our skins. I do not have to mention that an overseas education experience has been stuck in my mind for as long as I could remember.

Finance is and will always be my greatest worry. I am more than inclined for a United States education which would require a little more than RM450,000. My parents are able to cover approximately half of that amount, and I have thought about covering the other half with the JPA loan of a maximum RM200,000. I would then apply for a job in the US to repay back my parents and the loan. As easy as it sounds, these are all based on assumptions. IF JPA would be able to offer me the loan, IF I would be able to get a job there upon graduation, IF..

I have had people telling me that I only live once, so take the chance for a good quality education and who knows what I might find on my way there. I have had people telling me that it is a ridiculous amount for an undergraduate degree, and that I should just study in Monash Malaysia (KL) and consider migration after that.

Believe me when I say I understand how you feel, our decisions are swaying every time we consider different advice given by different people, especially those that make perfect sense. I cannot tell you what to do, but I can tell you to consider the bank loan you are planning to apply for. 7.5% is a hefty amount of interest to repay, along with the JPA loan although I do realize that for the first 40 months (3 years 4 months) you need only to repay Rm400 per month. I believe also that you are awaiting the results of Shell Scholarship 2010. Who knows, it might just work out for you.

Just remember that your decision should be what you consider best for yourself, and I wish you all the best. Please do keep us updated on your next course of actions

then unorthodox91, u r a little different. unlike economics or finance papers where ppl can opt for globally recognised professional papers in any part of the world. I am a finance ppl and we can study, earn and improve as long as there are internet connection, phone, laptop and calculator. where our country simply dunhv tht resources for best engineering education. for top science ppl to stuck in less-developed country engineering is rather wasted. educational qualities directly impacted ur future, not only life experience or dream. u hv a harder dilemma i would say.

This post has been edited by Aster66: May 25 2010, 03:45 PM

i agree with some of the people here.
its not worth spending that amount of money just for a degree.
after all NUS is not that bad of a choice right?
you should work your socks off in NUS and then you might grab a change to enter UCL/ Oxford/ Cambridge or whatever prestigious school for your postgrad.

Thanks

No, because I know if I were to get myself involved in such a loan, I wont come back Malaysia to work for sure. If its lowest I had to go, take washing the dish in UK for example, I'll do it because I picked that decision and I am liable to it. After all, I was the one who dug that hole is the first place, I might fell on it, or I might just crossed that hole successfully.

Hei, we're in the same boat! I agree the part where most replies were given by people of older ages, after all they were the people who have seen the world enough to make such remarks, which I do appreciate very much. But young people like us just have a burning spirit to achieve the dreams that motivates us huh.

Btw, did u apply to NUS as well? Or HKUST for that matter?

Since you're saying that, have you decided to go US? I really wish you can go there, since like you said, your parents could afford half the fees. The land of US has more to offer, if compared to Malaysia I'd say, and trust me you'll do very well there. While I was working two weeks back, a random uncle approached me and asked me about some questions related to the product he purchased, then he complimented me for the advice I gave him, which he proceeded with talking to me about education stuffs. He even told me this, if you have to wash the dish there, even if that's the lowest you have to go, trust me, just go, you'll do far better than being in this land. I have no idea why he made such a remark, but out of no where he just told me these, the moment before that I was still confused and baffling between the choice of furthering my studies. It served not only as an inspiration from no where, but a force of motivation that told me to pursue my dreams.

Of course that happened before the thread was even created, after reading more and more of the negative replies, I finally figured it was a very naive/silly/absurd/ridiculous and whatever words that people have used to tell me about this dream I had. Heck I was even accused of things that I've never mentioned simply because most people perceived the idea in a different manner, i.e to invest so much on nothing but a piece of degree, but it was okay, some hold great true in it. Then, after considering the big picture, the rational in me finally manifested into a wake up call which tells me to let that decision to go, although it was devastating move but LOGICAL nonetheless.

I am not saying NUS is not a good uni, and I know a lot of people are dying to get there. It is just the fact that I'm more inclined towards heading somewhere further, like UK for instances, not only for the education itself, but the environment and life there. But in this position where I'm a self funded students, I guess it just made things more complicated. Long story short, I shall concentrate more on NUS for now, if and only if there's some miracle which happened somewhere in between.

p/s: I just got a email for interview for EPF scholarship next week, and it could be my last shot, and I pray I could do my very best.

I think may be it is even harder to get into NUS than UCL.

good luck in the EPF scholarship!

just so you know, a lot of my friends who did get jobs in the UK aren't planning to stay long for reasons such as incredibly high tax AND cost of living as well as lower chance of progression due to the competition. Most of them are just staying until they complete their certification papers (ICAEW and CFA) and are then planning to apply to Singapore or HK.

So technically, as a Singapore grad you're already ahead of the game.

Personally, since I'm not in finance, I decided to come back because I believe the opportunities in Malaysia are better.

Lower initial salary? yes.
Better chance of progression? Definite.

Of course, I may be wrong and get stuck in a dead end job but I'll deal with that should the need arise.

---

Added on May 25, 2010, 7:06 pmdepends on what course. Anyone who goes to Bartlett will basically not have a life until they graduate. the econs program is one of the top 3 in the country and the Biochem Eng department is ranked second in the world.

then again, I dont know what NUS acceptance requires but Im pretty sure that depends on the course as well.

This post has been edited by 0mars: May 25 2010, 07:06 PM

Omars,

How do you define progression and what do you mean by lower chance of progression?

getting straight A is not a big deal.
securing a job, climb the ranks, perform well with some thinking is a BIG DEAL.
many people out there (nerds) who burn midnight oil, emphasizing on paper result end up being what? slaves to cooperate when they couldnt even express themselves in work environment. Eg, an engineer who found out a way to reduce cost for a machine but lack of confidence,shy, or whatever individual skills to make a presentation to the board will forever only stuck in his office chair being instructed what to do.

anyway that is an off topic. In my opinion, dont pursue things that you cant afford. It might sounds good for your future receiving a paper from UCL. It may help you to obtain some impression from your employer initially but in the end of the day, the best worker outperforms. If you have the capabilities, settle down on NUS (which is already reputable) , get a job and do well. that 7% interest per annum is abit high. Even i dont even feel like paying my 1% PTPTN loan lol.

As some ppl mentioned, you can always do masters during ur final year. I believe with ur persistance, you will obtain some scholarship in no time. However, foreign influence is undoubtly useful. You could use that chance to communicate more with foreigners and abolish chinese-sticking-groups that gets you no where.

Sir, that statement is true even if you're in the UK and only stick to Msians/Singaporeans. You can have friends outside your own race in Malaysia too

totally agree. ppl at different age see different things want different things (feels Im really getting old now >_<). I wanted too to study in somewhere lovely for my life experience no matter wht price to pay. but now, Im so glad I did not, at least not for my degree. studying is not everything in life, there are so many more to achieve. seriously, I only realised what I really wan in life after I graduted from university. and after I came out to work only I realised how different is reality vs actuality. how ugly can human be.

if you're talented and so intelligence, u can make it out anywhere, would u stil willing to wash plate behind dirty street with a uk degree for higher $$? isnt it wasted ur intelligence? when u say better life experience studying abroad then how bout the life experience after gruaduated? sometimes ppl will only feel it when paying few thousands to bank and not buying a favourite toy for ur kids in christmas. for tht amount of money to spend on my abroad degree, it would be able to rebuild 20 or more schools in Haiti or Sichuan, benefiting few hundreds of students, unless I am sure I would be another world price winner for economist or so, creating theories that benefit few thousands of students in future, else my parents gonna be damn loaded nowhere else to spend the money.

I dunno, I only learned how to appreciate life when Im off from glucose and gas, when I buried my beloved one, realising it's not a nighmare that will just puuf and disappear when I wake up. al these money cant buy, success cant buy.

This post has been edited by Aster66: May 26 2010, 10:17 AM

So True.

Totally agree!!
It's a kinda big amount for me.
Somemore NUS is quite well-known, not a bad choice.
You should really think about it properly.

400k is alot of money. You could've gotten yourself a brand new two-storey terrace with that money at the end of 15years, instead of repaying loans like a bankrupt.

A cert from UCl is definitely a passport to your first job but then on its you who pave the path.

But it's really up to you to decide. It's your choice. Just don't put the blame on anyone should you not reach your goals in the future.

Unfortunately, not much practice it nowadays.Sad but true.

career progression in terms of say, promotions or being chosen for further training i.e. MBA's or in a technical career, specialist training.
What I mean by having a lower chance of progression (at least in my opinion) is that, from my experience, although I'm a first class honours student, I'm still simply on par with the top of my class. The bar is set quite high and as each of us reaches it, someone pushes it higher. The general culture within my course is too perform and continuously grow and improve. However, when I then carried out an internship in Malaysia, I found that the general mentality was not to compete and be the best, but simply to "do enough" to get by.

Now, keeping in mind that I do not believe the whole workforce can be generalized like that, the simple fact that this culture exists allows the high performers to really stand out (with less competitors than you would have in the UK) which in itself should lead to more opportunities to progress.

I do hope I have not insulted anyone with the opinions above. It was not my intention in any way.

whats the hype about UCL? how is it ranked? sorry for my ignorance.

since you are going to study econs then think like an economist. think of the costs (yeah you know, trade offs, opportunity those things you learn in your text). where would you be better off? take utility into consideration as well. CALCULATE and choose the one which yields highest TU.

good luck!

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-...gs/2009/results

wow.. ok go all out to UCL then. its number 4 mind you. NUS is merely 30. you know what PM Lee's son ditched NUS for oxford and since UCL is ranked higher than oxford.. you get the drift.

the rest of the comments please look at my previous post.

This post has been edited by icycokes: May 26 2010, 03:58 PM

Well, if somehow there's no cash to support you in your year two, you can always work part-time.

According to my mom, education is a worthy investment.

I'm not jeopardizing my parents savings, in fact they have no savings to begin with. What I'm afraid is to drag them into a financial burden should any unforeseen circumstances arises, which after much consideration, I decided not to pull them in.


Umm, as much as economics is concern, it is only a theory in logic. I could relate economics with this "investment" if I wanna call it as one, but apparently my previous post stated that it was a dream/ambition/goal, and I believe it is usually difficult to achieve and sometimes correlates with the some outrageous goals.

But in this case, since most people have made their remark clear and strong, it's not such a worthy investment afterall.

What really intrigues me is that why economics ?
I understand of choosing the best school for your dream subject cos its perfectly normal, but what drives you to this subject in the first place ?

I was given a similar scenario in my youth, a scholarship to UK. Yeah was happy and all that but does not provide other stuffs like living and accomodation, food ,..... and that does not come cheap. I got 2 cousins study at UK under govt scholarship for medic have to survive with maggi mee everyday.

So I just choose a cheaper and riskier alternative by opting to skip degree entirely by going straight for prof qualification namely acca. This comes straight after I was honored as state scholar student. Everybody ask why to take such risky move and highly unorthodox maneuver. I told them I choose and live my own life and I will be responsible for the failure / success.

But like i said, life is not easy. Even after you finished your education you will start from scratch when start working. Thats where you will suffer for few years before gets recognized. Happens to all profession like doctors, engineers, lawyers, architects, accountants,....... you name it. Unless your parent is rich lo.

My opinion is, if you are very sure of what you want just go for it. Ignore the others. But you gotta LIVE with your own decision. All successful people are risk takers by nature. But are you ready for it ?

Lemme see....Where do I start?

Let's start with the choice between UCL and NUS. I know what you mean by wanting to have a western education and the experience that you will get. NUS no matter how good will not bring that set of experience. The way one thinks will be different too. I know, I can see how myself has changed. I sometimes think if my experience would have been different if I went to HK or Singapore for my undergrad, I guess I wouldn't know.

UCL is a great school but nevertheless not the best, certainly not something that deserves an arm and a leg. If it was LSE, then you might be able to justify spending RM400k. UCL is not Stanford or UPenn or Chicago. Having a first degree from UCL will not guarantee you a job in the UK even if you come out tops in your program. Coupled with the fact that immigration is strictly enforced, you might just find yourself back in Asia. If you are lucky a job in HK or Singapore otherwise, Malaysia. Judging from that, this is not a wise investment decision.

NUS doesn't measure up to UCL in many aspects but it certainly is a catch when it comes to costs. A first degree is the same regardless of where you go barring Harvard, Princeton, Yale yadda yadda. Those schools are not the same in the sense that even if you are the best, you might not necessarily get in. They are in a different universe altogether. Because the differences between the BSc's from NUS and UCL are minimal, there is really no point in spending that sum of money.

At this juncture, you wouldn't know if economics is your cup of tea. You are drawn to it now but can you say with certainty that 3 years from now, you will have the exact same feelings about economics? Imagine you went to UCL and you realised that economics is not something that you like after your first year, instead finance is something that interests you. But you have already piled up RM100k of debt and to switch courses will only increase the debt but to continue in a program in which you have diminishing interest will only spell torture for the remaining 2 years. Why make yourself poor and miserable? If you went to NUS and the exact thing happens to you, you would probably incur a lower cost no matter what you do.

If it turns out that you are an economics beast, then even if you went to NUS, you will definitely get into say Chicago or LSE for your MSc and or PhD.

From a cost-benefit point of view, NUS is a better choice. Given the financial situation that you are in.

You mentioned a great point over here, but I'm the kind of person who will finish what I've started, so switching of course would be unlikely unless I have a dire need to do so. Anyway I have decided to head to NUS at the moment, unless I have been offered a scholarship to study there

Thanks for the opinion and advices everybody So, until miracle happens!

You can never be too sure. University is a different ball game.

Don't worry, you have not made a wrong decision. Look forward to it, go with an open mind. You will never know what might be heading your way. I certainly did not expect to pick up a language. You will be close to home, food is good ,weather is good.

I get what u mean And did I tell you how much I appreciate it?

Anyway, I presume you're currently studying abroad as well? Speaking of weather, part of the reason I wanted to go UK is also due to the weather, coming out someone who've never experienced winter/snow before, but don't get me wrong. I didn't choose UK just because I want to be in a four season country. It's just part of the minor reasons XD

Those are general reputation. Better to look at ranking for the particular course you are interested in.

Fair enough.

You don't go to the UK for snow. London doesn't have any snow in normal circumstances. If you want snow you have to go to Canada and Scandinavia. Those places really snow. Avoid Australia too. A friend of mine in Melbourne remarked, I don't know why I came to Australia, it doesn't feel like studying overseas, no snow and all asians........Swanston street is full of Asians........

You want culture you don't go to mainstream places like UK or Melbourne..you go Switzerland/Germany.