This post has been edited by swift4ever: Jun 15 2011, 10:08 PM
V3. Swiftlet Keeping Discussion, Home of Fuciphagus Domesticus
V3. Swiftlet Keeping Discussion, Home of Fuciphagus Domesticus
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Jun 15 2011, 10:03 PM
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#21
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Speaking of growth rate in birds in any area, insects supply in the area will determine how good it is just like some caves swifts in Borneo island that generate tons of nests per harvest. Any single man-made BH produce the same? None that I know of. Even number of bats are in the millions in cave and tons of insects are eaten per day by them. So be prepared for the poor growth if you are new comer. Just my 2 sen view.
This post has been edited by swift4ever: Jun 15 2011, 10:08 PM |
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Jun 22 2011, 10:01 PM
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#22
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When there is a whistle-blower who see what lies ahead and have the courage to speak up, still many sell "fake" red and yellow nest to China because they thought he is one against an army! We ignore the obvious at our peril, need we say more?
We, Assoc and Govt should be a advocate and champion of the just, right and true bird nests, not just Lone Ranger alone. This post has been edited by swift4ever: Jun 22 2011, 10:08 PM |
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Jun 23 2011, 09:02 PM
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#23
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Market players will find all opportunities to bring down the price whenever they can. With the current uncertainty over the food poison scare across the continent and China tighten the check and control of bird nests import from various countries, it is natural that market players will seek the opportunity to dump the price. Have we produced the just, right and true bird nests, we would not have gotten our image tarnished and subsequently blacklisted or penalized. Just my 2 cents.
This post has been edited by swift4ever: Jun 24 2011, 06:56 AM |
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Jun 30 2011, 10:52 PM
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#24
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For birds to dive down, it takes some time for baby/new birds to learn how to do it for sure. If you have more nesting room to dispose of at your luxury, coupled with good PULLING sound as claimed, you are definitely making life easier for the birds in an extended roving room.
The design of such could be useful for long term growth if insects are scarce and there is a need to breed insects within the roving room. Just my 2 cents. This post has been edited by swift4ever: Jun 30 2011, 10:53 PM |
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Jul 3 2011, 11:53 PM
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#25
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When I looked up from the cave bottom to see how cave swiftlets spiral upward toward the cave hole to make their exodus from a cave and likewise spiral downward in to the abyss to head home. I am sure that is how many farmers apply the same to house swiftlets in the past and now. There are hundreds of thousands if not millions of swiftlets do this in caves and some house swiftlets do similar stunts using spiral staircase as LAL. It takes some getting used to for new and baby swiftlets guided by the old birds and light from the entry hole. Just my observation.
This post has been edited by swift4ever: Jul 4 2011, 08:48 AM |
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Jul 5 2011, 09:43 PM
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#26
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All BHs/Caves starts from zero, new birds becomes old birds when they are populated. For survival,
swiftlets find any places that deemed safe to live in, underground caves or tunnel under the bridges and man made BHs of today. Facts about rubber trees found from the web... Rubber trees:- In the wilderness, the tree can reach a height of up to 144 feet (44 m) and for commercial purpose or in plantations, the trees are kept smaller, up to 78 feet (24 m) tall. Can your BH outgrow these trees to make your swiftlets safe from predators hidden in tree branches? Flowers:- As with other members of the genus Ficus, the flowers rely on a specific wasp species to pollinate it in a co-evolved relationship. Because of this relationship, the rubber plant does not produce highly colourful or fragrant flowers to attract other pollinators. The flowers are impossible to see because they are encased in a unique structure called a syconium, which looks much like a small fig. Can swiftlets find good insects supply on top of the trees? Keep as far away as possible from rubber trees if you've to built a BH in it but not so close to neighbor that some day your neighbour comes to build one to obstruct your fly path. Just my thought. This post has been edited by swift4ever: Jul 5 2011, 09:45 PM |
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Jul 17 2011, 08:46 PM
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#27
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QUOTE(northface @ Jul 13 2011, 07:41 PM) I won't be going but from the description of the conference is sounds like an educational conf, probably gonna discuss long term prospects and things like that than ACTUAL swftlet farming itself. If this conference and training tells you how to produce good quality nests that meets the standard of the World Health Organization and sell into China's market, the fees charge is chicken feed! It is still good to know the trends even if you are new to swiftlet farming. Yet they are still charging $800 per person? Take a look at speakers listed here, http://www.unisza.edu.my/icotos/index.php?...mid=117〈=en http://www.unisza.edu.my/icotos/index.php?...mid=110&lang=en This post has been edited by swift4ever: Jul 17 2011, 08:55 PM |
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Jul 17 2011, 10:35 PM
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#28
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QUOTE(West Wing @ Jul 17 2011, 09:56 PM) I was there and left after 20 minutes not because I didn't pay for the fee which I didn't and smuggle myself in but left because it's boring....... I have 2 from our Association attending and maybe tomorrow session will be exciting I hope. What I am concerned about is the future directions of safety standard of our bird nest exported to China. hope thare is an in-depth discussion on the acceptable levels of the nitrate content from the bird nest and new technology to elimiate or reduce the nitrate levels before they are exported. Well this is all for the health of consumers after spending so much money to improve their well beings. I am sure China's government like all other governments is happy to see their citizens live a healthy life and be grateful to Malaysian farmers to contribute to their health care plans. In return, import more local product into their shores.There was one booth selling a book on how to process birdnest nest for Rm120 and for those newbiz and those who want to know about processing EBN, it's a nice book with pictures clearly explaining how to do it. Another interesting tool for measuring standard of EBN like C,B,A or AA similar to my three fingers A, 2 fingers C and in between B id you don't understand. Unless you have small fingers, fingers size should be similar. Others, nothings really worth looking into like ECO Parks investment. fire extinguisher, Aroma and Perfume, etc and etc same same. Hope my 2 friends will have a good outing tomorrow as their today's report wasn't interesting like I predicted after 20 minutes there. |
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Jul 20 2011, 09:25 PM
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#29
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QUOTE(Cergau @ Jul 20 2011, 09:37 AM) I doubt anything has been changed in the GAHP for swiftlets. Authority has been dragging its feet on so many issues and among them, current swiftlet keeping issue still There are other GAHPs for various other animals under their jurisdiction... If you read them all, one would realise the similarity and why the GAHP for swiftlets appear to be meant for aliens. They're mere duplicates with the appropriate parts amended. The bulk of the material for 1GP concerns PBTs. Maybe the PBTs will run courses too. And each dept concerned print their own little booklets and make it compulsory to own one as a condition for the license. I already think that they are infringing on our constitutional right by stipulating the need to be an assoc member. Have you guys have a look at the DVS registration form for your BH? One would think that one is applying to be member of a political party or religious school or govt aid or all 3. 1)Kawasan Parlimen 2)Kawasan Undangan Negeri Why is this their business? Incase the birds crosses constitution? 3)Agama Must dead birds be accorded the appropriate rituals? 4)Marital status - Belum, Sudah, IBU TUNGGAL????? None of the above has anything to do with their core competencies nor their job towards the public nor swiftlet santuaries. This one beats them all.... They ask for birthdate and yet still ask for your age!!!! Champions!!!!! Reminds me of something I last read on their site Vision A competent veterinary authority serving the animal industry for the sake of human welfare The above 'vision' has been online for I dont know how long. They are telling the world they are now incompetent and their vision is to be merely competent. I share all these without malice just my way of keeping them on their toes and an opportunity to improve over time if they so choose. I gain nothing by making them look bad...they are already doing a good job of it without my help. remains a big issue as far as pollutions and complaints are concerned. When this forum is started in Mar 2007, we have discussed everything about the industry, techniques, tips, tricks, complaints, actions and reactions, and now 1GP. , And if you care to recall, the very first topic for discussion put forward as quoted was "First and foremost u need license to do so...any complains from the public due to the noice pollution (in attracting the swiftlets) and also hygine will not be compromised by the authorities. The laws has gone stricter by the years due to SARS outbreak." So for quote of the day "....The laws has gone stricter by the years due to SARS outbreak ." - It is still far from coming true as of today. As for the DVS registration form, if they don't suffer from CRS(can't remember shit), could be that all of us are new birds, not meant to see any signs of doomsday. This post has been edited by swift4ever: Jul 20 2011, 10:20 PM |
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Jul 26 2011, 01:42 PM
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#30
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http://www.guangming.com.my/node/109180?tid=3
On headline news, I think this is the biggest step in the right direction so far to fight for our existence. Black sheeps under the guise of Made-in-Malaysia to export fake/blood bird nest to China for more dollars than sense. Our govt should push for the 30ppm of the nitrate contents as agreeable level and in order to reduce nitrate content at source, if using EM is one good way, by all means make it compulsory for all farms. |
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Jul 26 2011, 08:31 PM
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#31
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QUOTE(Cergau @ Jul 26 2011, 02:08 PM) If I have read the translation correctly....it's all about processed EBN, not raw ones. "酵素和過濾水可以減低燕窩的亞硝酸鹽成份,但也不能達致零..."There's also mention of 'tracking' ..if required it should be from the processing plants, not from farms. Unless of course if the BH owners are also processing them. Else there will be tons of unnecessary bureaucracy to deal with. My apologies, I am not a fan of compulsory this or that...which the govt is very fond of...blanket rulings when further effort is required to resolve anything at the root. "Enzyme and filtered water can be used to reduce nitrate content..." Correct me if I am wrong, EM is used only at source but not at processing plants unless there exists a new formula to use both at processing plants which I am not aware. 該部將會展開一項追蹤行動,以揪出製造假燕窩的奸商 Tracking the processing plants that do fake bird nests, not necessary farms. If EM is too costly to make and use, I don't think many new farmers can afford it even if it can help contribute to food safety as well. How about DVS giving out free if it is still not cheap to buy from all sources. I sure hope some other forms of subsidy provided other than loans. |
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Jul 26 2011, 11:55 PM
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#32
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QUOTE(TinkleBell @ Jul 26 2011, 10:43 PM) Hi S4ever My apology for not making myself clear when I am promoting EM at source. EM is used to eliminate and control ammonia, ammonium nitrite and ammonium nitrate chemicals inside the droppings so much so that minimum level of nitrite/nitrate contents kept in birds nests. Are you guys worried about the guangming article will have a big impact to Malaysia as majority Msia EBN relied on China market? So price coming down again? That will be bad after the not so long nitrite in blood EBN. Looking at the so-called blood nest color is frightening. Honestly, are they such blood nest in reality? I mean those with dark dracula color blood nest. My apology to those who are in blood EBN. Enzyme and filter water really can reduce the nitrate content EM water can help to reduce the nitrite level??? But then EM is good in neutralizing odour, will it remove the birdnest's natural aroma??? I used to use EM to make organic fertiliser. It is good. BTW, what enzyme we are talking about in bird's nest please??? Is it just fermented EM? Where can I check on the latest status on our government negotiation with the China government please? Thank you all for your advice. Cheers For government negotiations, former MCA chief Ong Ka Ting was tasked to lead the group? |
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Jul 29 2011, 07:42 AM
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#33
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QUOTE(tuckfook @ Jul 27 2011, 06:58 PM) Why should sodium Nitrate and sodium Nitrite be an issue ? Old news from China, date 04/06/2011These are known to form carcinogenic compounds when cooked at high heat with meats especially, which does not happen with EBN. Both these compounds are currently being used as preservatives in a variety of meats and vegetables. So why does it affect the EBN industry ? Is it because the processors are adding these to preserve the EBN or because Sodium Nitrate also turns EBN reddish, as in corned beef ? It is clear that the levels of these 2 chemicals is not natural and has been added by someone along the chain of supply. These are the people sabotaging the business. Moreover, both, nitrite and nitrate are soluble in water so soaking and washing before cooking will eliminate most of these 2 chemicals. It is obvious that someone is trying to manipulate the market. So, why are the Associations not actively correcting this problem ? This is where the Malaysian MOA and DVS should take action to educate and negotiate with the buying countries. It will be normal to set acceptable standards for these finished products to be exported. http://dagong.iflove.com/news/11/06/04/ima...702-1376852.htm The last line read "中國《食品添加劑使用衛生標準》(GB2760-2007)嚴格限制亞硝酸鹽僅作為肉類等少量食品的護色劑,限量為70毫克/公斤,其他食品(包括燕窩)不允許添加" According to China food additives health benchmark(GB2760-2007), only 70ppm/kg of nitrite/nitrate is allowed to add to the meats and other limited food items to preserve the colors. Not allowed on bird nest. If you care to read on other lines, China is going to come out with the state-of-the-art technology to differentiate true from a fake bird nest... The title read GUANGZHOU DISCOVERED IMPORTED COLORED "POISONED" NESTS -hit by new lead poisoning scare The Association news yesterday read that you don't have to sell your bird nests at low or if you like, manipulated price...can't remember which paper though. This post has been edited by swift4ever: Jul 29 2011, 09:49 AM |
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Jul 31 2011, 10:19 PM
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#34
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QUOTE(northface @ Jul 29 2011, 05:52 PM) I think this can be good in a way, most of the processing are done by Indonesians anyways, and they were and still are the ones that come up with all these dirty tricks to maximize their profits. To safeguard the quality of bird nest and maintain the price of bird nest exported from Malaysia, counter-trade deals involving governmen-to-government transactions should be considered otherwise If raw BN falls into a wrong hand in China, fake and adulterated BN will still be an issue. Just my 2 cents.Most Malaysians cleans bird's nest on a small scale only, in fact if China suppliers import raw BN straight from Malaysia we might even get better prices than what Indonesians pay us. |
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Aug 2 2011, 09:53 PM
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#35
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Sure thing, If you were to convert a shop behind or next to a mamak restoran into a BH, be prepared to have tough a time pulling birds because of pigeons and pigeons curry smell....this is lesson No 1 for newbie here.
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Aug 4 2011, 11:18 AM
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#36
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News on Getting zero nitrite level in bird’s nest impossible
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...3607&sec=nation “Nitrite can also find its way into the bird's nest during the cleaning stage as the use of reverse osmosis water has been found to increase the nitrite level,” This is news, hope we can have more information how this thing come about? EM is encouraged to use in house to reduce nitrites level.. |
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Aug 5 2011, 07:35 AM
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#37
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QUOTE(West Wing @ Aug 4 2011, 12:10 PM) If it's true, it still has no much effect on our birdnests as To tighten the check and control of bird nests import from various countries, China govt ruled blanket ban probably because it is easy to follow, easy to implement and reduces confusion but it is definitely not fair to small producing nations like us, Thailand etc. 1. Less than 10% of our nests is processed locally 2. Most of our nests are exported to Indo as Indo higher grade nests so it shall be considered as Indo nests as is not include in the Ban anyway. 3. Most of the Indo nests are to HK and then to China which is never affected by any ban. 4. If our processed nests contained unhealthy chemical, it's the processing industry that need to toe the line and someway, somewhat, somebody is playing dirty and cause concerned in China or someone is trying so hard to destroy our export of processed nests or someone having hidden agenda like trying to monopolies the market for themselves. 5. Our Malaysian nests was given the green light and tax free by the chinese govt. then and all other Asian countries are not allowed tax free but what and how come that our nests now have problem with the Chinese authorities. 6. Somewhere, somehow and somewhat, something fishes is giving bad smell to our nests and this Malaysia Govt. must look into. As said earlier, market players will find all opportunities to bring down the prices of all products, raw or processed whenever they can. With the current uncertainty over the food poison scare, it is natural that interest groups will seek the opportunity to create havoc for their own advantage. |
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Aug 12 2011, 10:58 PM
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#38
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While Govt to unveil new plan on tracking the source of birds nest using GPS, I do hope Govt or privately-funded research group to study the possibilities of deploying tracking devices/geolocators on these birds, to let us gain better understanding of these species; provide us with a clue about the survival rate of these species when they are free flying from the farm source.
We have a lot of education to do with the population of China so huge. Govt and industry groups must help us... This post has been edited by swift4ever: Aug 12 2011, 11:21 PM |
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Aug 13 2011, 09:14 PM
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#39
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It's true that swiftlets are too fragile to handle but years ago someone I know of took 20 birds out from a farm then painted their wings with color and let go of them more than 100km away from the farm, guess what? 17 out 20 came back to where they live! Don't ask me how many days for all birds to fly home because I also suffer from CRS!
Device today can be made under 1.5g to track songbirds. Swiftlets can be tagged too....I expect more hate comments to roll in... |
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Aug 15 2011, 12:48 PM
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#40
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QUOTE(West Wing @ Aug 14 2011, 04:35 PM) I just heard of a song with the lyric " God is great, beer is good, men are crazy" and I think it apply here.......... "In God/Birds we trust, all others must pay cash" men replied. Added on August 15, 2011, 12:49 pm QUOTE(tuckfook @ Aug 14 2011, 05:10 PM) What is worse is that we pay for their salaries and again pay for their services via licenses etc. Maybe It's time to refocus our vision and to reorder our priorities to build a downstream processing industry of high standard?? Our lady Dr. perhaps thinks is about time she became richer and famous, for whatever reasons. For me, it is really quite straightforward. Make all birds' nest processors adhere to certain reasonable standards and SIRIM( or whichever dept.) will audit all standards for export so that any importer will be confident of the Made in Malaysia mark. Also that way we do not become victims of non Malaysian processors. As with any food product, irradiation can be used to kill all the bacteria so that preservatives are not needed. Nitrites and nitrates are used as preservatives as well as enhance colour. Vacuum packaging will ensure products remain viable for a longer period. No export of raw EBN, and if our processing standards are good, nobody will need to export raw EBN. China will beg for the supply of Made in Malaysia EBN. Why track and trace when we are capable of processing to an acceptably high standard. MOA needs their heads checked. "We are now faced with the face that tomorrow is today. We are confronted with the fierce urgency of now. In this unfolding conundrum of life and history there is such a thing as being too late." Dr. Martin Luther King Jr This post has been edited by swift4ever: Aug 15 2011, 12:49 PM |
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