Bobby C,
I can identify with your sentiments.
It is sad that instead of quoting success stories as benchmarks what we can often quote are 'bad examples'.
Yes, the younger set is better informed thus will eventually and collectively reach a critical mass to set a new course for the country.
There is little time for regrets, with the last flame that remain in many of us, we shall light the way for the younger ones to then forge their own destiny.
I hope to see the ship change course to head the right way before my own dim light is snuffed out for good.
Some unsolicited reassurance........
Do not despair, many hopeless battles on hindsight were won just by sheer tenacity and doggedness.
The least we can do is spread the truth as we see it to those without the means to alternative news.
In most cases it will not be far from the absolute truth in comparison to the lies that are spread by the controlled media.

akin to.....
continue staying foolish..
go hungry
this is not even close to an even match
1 side puts zero on the table, the other puts everything on the table
The common objective...MALAYSIA INCORPORATED..or in simple terms ...the nation's good shd be the common objective
To elaborate, 1 side has nothing to lose, the other everything...
We are NOT in competition, win-win do not feature

if there's no shit, there will not be any to sling with, is there?
BIKIN TAK SERUPA CAKAP..... is not a foreign invention imported at great expense
I respect your choice of... comply 'come what may'
There are others would like see more control over their fate and choice of an alternative.
Are we a monopoly to a captive world market that we can weather all kinds of regressive actions?
How will all these top-down mis-guidelines help enhance the industry's competitiveness?
Let's not go on rhetorics!
Explore your strength of your confidence in the government by going through each point in resp to DVS rumoured intentions.
(an assurance that this will not be "much ado about nothing", and wasteful...the "rumour" is a feeler from the originating source)
In any imaginary way or method, play DVS part and respond to my questions?
I welcome rebuttals as I do not for 1 min fancy myself as having a monopoly of smarts on this forum.
an invitation to Shoot! in all my humility.

This post has been edited by Cergau: May 14 2010, 01:30 PM

In the midst of the gloom, I thought I will share some light hearted moments to spread some cheer
A gem a day keeps the blues away

Najib in Sibu sounds just like a cop/official trying to solicit a bribe
At the gathering attended by some 1,000 local Chinese school teachers Najib also presented financial allocations
of RM15 million for 65 Chinese schools in the district and RM3 million for two mission schools.
The RM15 million includes an allocation of RM5 million to five independent Chinese secondary schools in Sibu.
The remaining RM10 million was allocated for the 60 government-aided Sibu Chinese primary schools.

“I will deliver what you want, you must deliver what I want and you know what I want,”

selected comments
(1)tuan, I tak paham lah tuan, macam mana settle?

(2)aiya, there is a perfectly innocent explanation (PIE) to your somewhat cynical remark about our His C4'ness, the Loser of Jet Engines, the Commissioner (35% commision) of Unsinkable Submarines, the Defender of the Sodomized, the Second Husband of the First Wife, Dear (as in :"Expensive") Leader Na$1b of 1UMNO.
He is merely using his skills to encourage participation of stupid pendatangs from Sibu to vote for him is this Divinely UMNO controlled Demoneycracy. What's wrong with that? Al-UMNOdollarlah.

http://www.malaysia-today.net/index.php?op...s&Itemid=100132

Arrh, lost opportunity to do it the classic way.
You shd have sent them a photocopied cheque.

A HK resident did that and he received a photocopied arrest warrant in the mail.

Most feel helpless over the whole situation in the country and dont know what to do.
There are those who know what to do but fear the consequences.
There are those who has taken the whole lot in...and know what to do and not fear the consequences.
Why so? We are not the only country that are governed by humans who are susceptible to the craze for power and greed.
You would think that once the evil is got rid of, the jails will be full of these criminals?
It doesn't work that way....the victims will have to learn to forgive...there are already people writing about it in Malaysia.
Read here in Wiki what South Africa did after apartheid was overthrown.
Truth and Reconciliation Commission (South Africa)

As I have yet to discover a gem for the day, something to leave you pensive.

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
THEN THEY CAME for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
THEN THEY CAME for me and by that time no one was left to speak up."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...

This post has been edited by Cergau: May 16 2010, 08:52 AM

welcome mois,
You happened onto here during the lull before the storm while awaiting feedback from human interfaces to the power that be.
The initial discussion on these impending storms were started somewhere in V2.
The hottest issues faced currently are regulatory in nature as such it tends to drift into politics and bad experiences in enforcements.
Most technical discussions (when most on here were themselves newbies) were discussed in V1 and some new development in V2.
You are now on V3. Most technical stuff are on the 1st few postings on V2 kindly archived and brought forward by fellow forumers here.
Whatever this forum is, is a reflection of everyone here including yrself. Post away as you deem fit.
Repeated Qs (as in discussed previously) are most often than not ignored until responded to by the next candidate for sainthood

From your familiarity with the latest Mukah status, I am assuming you are from S'wak?
Here are the current hot issues I mentioned.
1)1GP - a very DRAFT was made available (links somewhere in V2) and I believe it's 'national' guideline, which the individual states will implement with their local interpretation. From the draft it doesnt look good though the Fed assoc has in some ways given assurance they are ontop of this for this matter.
2)Wild Life Conservation Bill 2010 - still pending in Parliament for the 2nd & 3rd reading before passing as an Act and subsequent gazetting as a law in force. This is applies to Pen M'sia and Labuan only. I realise that both Sabah & S'wah have their own Wildlife Act (correct me if otherwise) as the Bill seem to imply too.
At some point I believe both S'wak & Sabah will have to pass some amendments to their present Act to bring them inline with CITES latest listing.
3)GAHP - this I believe applies to everyone in the industry. There are suggestion from DVS (originator of the GAHP) to control the whole supply chain eg no raw EBN can be exported, only DVS approved cleaning plants can process, DVS pricing.

All 3 items will swamp us anytime now.
I do not wish to reproduce evry detail here , pls do reread earlier post and help convey the same (with some urgency) to our comrades over there.
thks

ChanK,
Thanks for the news, I suggest that if anyone were to share an article written in Chinese to either
1)provide a link to the article so a browser translation can be made failing which
2)a summary of the article would be good.

Bobby, good pts.

All,
I have pasted the vision, mission & objective of both depts below.
Test
1)your impression of what each dept core function ought to be and relate them to...
2)Each depts declared vision, mission and objectives and relate them to...
3)what has been discussed thus far on both the GAHP and the Wild Life Conservation Bill 2010
Any contradiction or overlap? pls share yr views

DVS
Vision
A competent veterinary authority serving the animal industry for the sake of human welfare
Mission
Provide quality veterinary services as an assurance for public health and sustainable livestock industry for the sake of human welfare
Objective
Strengthen and maintain animal health status conducive to the animal industry
Public health assurance through the control of zoonotic diseases and wholesome food production from animal based products
Encourage sustainable livestock production and value added industry
Explore, develop and encourage the use of technology and optimum use of sources in animal based industry
Promote animal welfare practices in all aspect of rearing and production system

PERHILITAN
VISION
To be an excellent institution in the conservation and sustainable management of biodiversity towards a developed nation.
MISSION
To lead the integration and implementation of conservation programme and sustainable management of the nation's biodiversity efficiently and effectively.
OBJECTIVE
Protection, management and preservation of biodiversity for optimum benefits.
Protection and development of protected areas for research, education, economic, aesthetic, recreation and ecological purposes.
Enhancement of knowledge, awareness and public support on the needs and importance of biodiversity conservation.

May I request that we ease up on the graphic details of our revulsion.
Just keep in mind they are.. after all doing their job...ikut perintah aje OK? Cool bros

What ever relevant points we can come up with will go back to the power that be through the relevant party.
We have done fairly well thus far, lets try get some pts.

This post has been edited by Cergau: May 17 2010, 11:56 AM

Bobby thks.
Short answer to all your 3 questions
Sanctioned Monopoly through devious means.

I now see what ChanK was implying.
You know the motor trade APs?
This is the swiftlet APs with a different twist, they initiate & mantain stds in best practices and product health.
In return they hold the absolute right to license processing plants and price the product.
a hybrid lah.....Highway concession + APs + setting petrol price.
So this is what the FEDs has been so busy with so far...
Banyak Cantik!!!!!!

Like that I want to bid for the project lah.
Let DVS run the BHs.

I suppose to support such activities in the eventuality that such hare brained ideas do get viable.
Mukhriz proposes swiftlets farming made as an industry under agriculture

Penternakan Burung Walet oleh Aeroswift

AEROSWIFT sounds familiar?
Both located in Sg Tengas, Kedah.

"KUALA LUMPUR 10 Mei - Penipuan membabitkan skim pelaburan burung layang-layang yang mencecah nilai RM400,000 terbongkar selepas Suruhanjaya Syarikat Malaysia (SSM) melakukan serbuan ke atas premis Aeroswift Consultancy Sdn. Bhd. yang berpangkalan di Kulim, Kedah."

The Chinaman sold it twice, once as poison and then as nectar.
The delusion and idiocy was broken momentary when the smell of cash was in the air.
It has since relapsed.
The Chinaman is back again and waiting for the next cup.

On reflection...what's wrong with bleaching?
Most of your food has some flour in them, and it's bleached.
I recall it's the residual bleach that's harmful.
Why such sweeping statement that bleaching birdnest is bad.
Any analysis done on the birdnest sample?
I recall earlier posting the mainland Chinese pay top price for whites!

If these exceeds the regulated level, charge them with breach of existing laws.
Nothing more nothing less.

easier than convincing....

senSual,
Folks involved in this biz started out DIY abt 10-20 yrs back.
The early day pioneers relied on picking out buildings where the swiftlets were already present. (1st choice)
When such buildings/locations run out, the second wave of pioneers through sheer university of hard knocks learnt the how, where and whats of attracting the swiftlets to these now (2nd-choice) building/locations.
Ever since the practice of 'enticing' these swiftlets began, the failure rate has been consistently 70-80%.
The how, where and whats are broadly known as the micro environmental factors.
Overtime these areas appear as successful clusters spread through the country otherwise known as hot-spots in the industry.

The eco park phenomena are started by
1)operators described above (in the mix will be both the successful, not-so-successful operators and operators turned consultant)
2)real estate developers (and wannabe) and recently in conjunction with politicians and ex-politicians; in conjunction with those frm pt 1.
Their aim is to sell you the property to run the biz with "professional" assistance.

Basic considerations apply
1)if the returns sound too fishy, it's fishy
2)if it doesnt, then your acceptable ROI applies
3)exit strategy require consideration as the same failure rate applies
My 2 bits.....
(I assume no responsibility nor be liable or responsible for any damages whatsoever, including without limitation, special, indirect, or consequential damages arising out of or related to the use or reliance of the information provided, whether by action in contract or tort or otherwise howsoever )

My apologies to all if my earlier posting may be misread as we do bleach.
What I wanted to know for my learning, why the hypocrisy abt bleaching?
Except for rice flour, most flour are bleached!!
If the Indonesians need to bleach some of theirs and there is scientific basis not to, then label it as such.
If they do and customers still purchase them, what's the problem?
My understanding it's not bleaching OF ANYTHING that's the problem...it's the residual bleach that folks take short-cuts on is the problem.
I think the distinction ought to be clearly defined and communicated to the general public.
Else all this 'unfounded fear' will be used by unscrupulous folks to their benefit.
If there are folks locally who unscrupulously bleach their product (as claimed in the initial article), then charge them.

Cos of some bad apples, an industry wide attempt to CONTROL the whole supply chain is UNWARRANTED.
It may seem like a good idea at first, but fatal in the long run.
If anyone wishes to do something similar, then do it entirely as a commercial concern on it's own merit.
If the market is ready for it, everyone will flock to them to do the processing and these will be a commercial success.
BUT NO COMPULSION.

tuckfook,
Thanks for the elaboration.
For the greater good and for the longer term viability of the industry I am now partial to some form of product assurances.
My concern over the possibility of a monopoly remains.
I suppose it can be addresses through a transparent criteria and process.
I would hate to see healthy competition curtailed through regulatory means.

No amount of regulation will deter the crooks.
Any new regulation will merely slowly the crooks awhile till a workaround is found or the technology overcome.

The point on the CE is valid if the product is absolutely a 'completed product'. For low priced commodity, CE is viable as it does not make commercial sense to adulterate a low cost item. Adulterations in this case add cost to an already low cost item.
EBN is a high cost item which makes adulteration commercially viable.
ISO certification is a myth. It certifies consistency and NOT a certification for quality.
This is 1 of many reasons previously certified organisation drop the re-certification.
Only useful for initial break thru to new markets.
Once broken thru, acceptance is by reputation, not certification.

How are 'certification' displayed for customer assurance? A label? Isnt that easily duplicated?

In the case of DVS proposal, the RFID IC/Chip. That has it's own weaknesses too.
They now have rice grain size RFIDs....embed them into each piece of EBN?
This brings along it own set of problem and consumer education and accidental consumption.
Sandwiched within the packaging material? Contents can be switched-lah, Another still born.
We have not even started with the implementation costs and how much it will inflate the base EBN cost.

Product purity assurance ---YES, but how and where from in the supply chain.
I am for at the tail end. Regulatory sampling should be conducted regularly.

Better and faster adulteration detection methods should be researched on and commercialised.
(this begs the Qs on how 'developmental' funds have been spent on dishing out to god-know-who to build BHs in direct competition to the very industry it i supposed to 'develop')
If severe regulations are put in place cos' of these crooks. It will result in the GOOD being punished by the additional regulation but the crooks only need to bypass them and make more money than the ones who are in compliance.
DOES IT HELP IN REDUCING OR ELIMINATING ADULTERATION despite the additional cost and penalty?

We have no means of knowing where our EBN will be after export! It can be adulterated in any degree and not necessary within Malaysia.
By degree I mean, it could be with an inferior grade or blatant partial switching with fake EBN.

EBN can be 'dismantled and reassembled' at any point in the supply chain!
(IMO this realisation alone will render all DVS proposals impotent as it;s focus is 'at source')
Which by default shd make the processing plant licensing moot.

This post has been edited by Cergau: May 19 2010, 03:39 PM

Swiftlet industry guideline involves four ministries
The reporter misquoted Human Resources ...the correct ministry ought to be Natural Resources and Environment
We seem to have missed this KEY report in March 2010
extract.............
"Veterinary Services Department director-general Datuk Dr Abdul Aziz Jamaluddin had said 1GP would address all problems associated with the swiftlet industry.
He said it would provide the framework to regulate the industry in a holistic manner including the licensing, sampling, producing and exporting of swiftlet bird's nest."
NOW I understand why we have been permitted to see so little....
The framework is to REGULATE ....NOT DEVELOP...
I am so so pissing MAD

All it means is
EVERYTHING COMING OUT FROM ANY OF THESE MINISTRIES ARE MEANT TO REGULATE and REGULATE ONLY
1)1GP is meant to regulate
2)GAHP is meant to regulate
3)Wild Life Conservation Bill 2010 is meant to regulate
4)so 1 piece is missing the MOH guidelines to regulate


YOU GUYS DESERVE THE FEDS.....
I'm out of here!!!!!

This post has been edited by Cergau: May 19 2010, 07:42 PM