Wouldn't a simple mask overcome the concern?
A face mask is oxymoronic for use with humidifier in winter but for our purpose it is not.
I do not think the droplets are in molecular/nano sizes and thus can penetrate our skin and onto the blood stream.

PS
Dunno abt cosmetics, a lot has the word nano in their advertisement.
I recall a read on cancer research where gold in nano sizes injected into patient seals up the leaky blood vessels of cancer growth.
Applying waves of certain frequency will heat up the gold particles thus killing the cancer cells.
BUT...the nano gold stay in you & can proceed up you head into your brain supply & though you survive the cancer you may end up being a M'sian politician.
I dont know which is worst

While we are still on scents....
Another loud thought...assumption is ...it works...
It does so by
1)Attraction? ie creating a 'lived-in' ambience for their comfort thus encouraging them to stay
(for like in the sounds we play) OR
2)Masking? It mask those smell (that we think turn them away) of a newly built BH? OR
3)Combo?...after 2 has been achieved then 1 kicks in?

To add on to some of the existing myth...
An Indonesian contractor who claims to have 'experience' building BHs in Indonesia suggested rubbing pineapple/skin onto the walls..
wheter to get rid of the cement smell or to attract birds????
This was what prompted my earlier Qs wheter it strictly mask, attract or both?

You may wanna try put together something similar to what I did & shared in V2 (link below).
It runs off a 12V motorbike battery so it should be portable for your site.
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/938524/+1740
Best of luck.

TF,
I hope this is not BH@agriland?
If so, that's exorbitant!

will occur with or w/o govt intervention anyways. only the high failure rate keep things in balance.
Just hope China doesn't wade in with their big bucks like what they are trying with rhinoceros (for their horn for traditional medicine)
Just read up this piece of news....seems like private (not govt/public) initiatives.

tuck fook, Unc WW,
I take consolation that there are a few 'new' contributors on this forum.
I agree that that are more takers than givers...which sadly is reflective of our society at large.
My hope is as younger generation join the ranks of BH owners ..being computer savvy already, we will see the ratio of givers and takers improve somewhat.

This post has been edited by Cergau: Jun 15 2011, 04:06 PM

tuck fook's call to go strengthen your local association is timely..
as more such info are shared here it appears there's a storm building in the far horizon.
local associations ought to nip this in the bud and not let it lie till it builds into something we can't mitigate.

this is merely the lull before the storm after the helter-skelter over the 1GP/WildLife Conservation Act 2010.
We are now facing the individual state implementation of the 1GP.
With 1 northern state (IIRC) already quoting a ridiculously high fig from thin air...the other states are picking their cue from there.

May I request that any known figures from your local PBTs be shared on this forum..if not for anything ...for angry folks to go kick down the local assoc door to go do something about it.
Timing is of the essence....GE is around the corner.
This can't be waged centrally as it's local PBTs......time for good folks to rise and be counted.

---

Added on June 21, 2011, 5:51 pmHow much of a slide? Please quote figs.
Were local assoc ever in discussion with the Chinese GOVT?


This post has been edited by Cergau: Jun 21 2011, 05:51 PM

Why psf indeed?
Let's stand back a little and ask why any at all?
There may be a case (but not in the amt mentioned thus far) for BH@town where basic infra and utilities and PBT services are provided.
This has been asked before....what do BH@Agri get in return for the license fee?
PBTs are not meant to make a profit...ie profit centres.
An amount to cover additional PBT administrative work for issuance of the license would be considered fair.
Since VETs propose to use RFID, PBT can encode their data into the same & even paper cost can be eliminated.

Agreed. Instead of just dishing out development funds to any tom d*** & harry from the budget allocation.
DVS ought to retain some to do the necessary.

It's either tit for tat from the customer end or our own people momentarily working against the industry just so to justify their hare brained idea for product tracking.

If there was bad press on EBN, the authorities ought to seize the opportunity and be seen to be serious about food safety when the customers are all ears. The quilty ones ought to be made an example of.

Good point benchai.

It's time we look at where we stand and what avenues are available to us.
To quote the 1GP these are the legislations that empowers the PBT
1.2 Kementerian Perumahan dan Kerajaan Tempatan (KPKT)
a) Akta Perancangan Bandar dan Desa 1976 [Akta 172] : Subseksyen 19 (1) dan Seksyen 22 (A) bagi keperluan kebenaran merancang.
b) Akta Kerajaan Tempatan 1976 [Akta 171] : Seksyen 107 dan 110 bagi tujuan pelesenan dan penguatkuasaan.
c) Akta Jalan, Parit dan Bangunan [Akta 133] : Seksyen 70 bagi keperluan permohonan pelan bangunan.
d) Undang-Undang Kecil Bangunan Seragam, 1988 yang diguna pakai oleh PBT bagi perkara-perkara melibatkan pengubahsuaian bangunan sedia ada untuk tujuan perusahaan burung walit.
e) Undang-Undang Kecil Tred, Perniagaan dan Perindustrian yang diguna pakai oleh PBT untuk penguatkuasaan.

I have again gone to the Attorney General's web site and pulled out the relevant Acts.
Those who wish to download for study...links below
http://www.agc.gov.my/index.php?option=com...emid=34&lang=en

Scroll down to Local Govt Laws to download from their links
Street, Drainage And Building Act 1974 [Act 133] is broken up into 3 parts
However there are 2 bad links for the last 2 parts
Street, Drainage And Building Act 1974 [Act 133] [51-100]
Street, Drainage And Building Act 1974 [Act 133] [101-131]
Use these corrected ones instead
http://www.agc.gov.my/Akta/Vol.%203/Act%20...%20(51-100).pdf
http://www.agc.gov.my/Akta/Vol.%203/Act%20...20(101-131).pdf

d) & e) are not available on the site and assume are PBT by-laws which may be obtained somewhere else (I dun know).

LOCAL GOVERNMENT ACT 1976
Declaration and determination of status of local authority areas
3. For the administration of local government under this Act, the State Authority, in consultation with the Minister and the Secretary
of the Election Commission, may by notification in the Gazette—
(a) declare any area in such State to be a local authority area;
(b) assign a name to such local authority area;
© define the boundaries of such local authority area; and
(d) determine the status of the local authority for such local authority area and such status shall be that of a Municipal Council or a District Council.
Change of name and status, and alteration of boundaries
4. (1) The State Authority, in consultation with the local authority, may by notification in the Gazette change the name of any local authority area.
(2) The State Authority, in consultation with the Minister and the local authority, may by notification in the Gazette change the status of a local authority area.
(3) The State Authority, in consultation with the Minister and the Secretary of the Election Commission, may by notification in the Gazette alter the boundaries of any local authority area.

From the above extract, on 1st reading, it's not the land type that is the determinant rather wheter the land sits within the declared boundary ...just as per yr pt on 'jurisdiction'. It's under their jurisdiction if within the declared boundary of that particular PBT irrespective of the land type.

Source - WikiSource - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_nitrite
In normal human diet
Nitrites are a normal part of human diet, found in most vegetables.[1][2][3] Spinach and lettuce can have as high as 2500 mg/kg, curly kale (302.0 mg/kg) and green cauliflower (61.0 mg/kg), to a low of 13 mg/kg for asparagus. Nitrite levels in 34 vegetable samples, including different varieties of cabbage, lettuce, spinach, parsley and turnips ranged between 1.1 and 57 mg/kg, e.g. white cauliflower (3.49 mg/kg) and green cauliflower (1.47 mg/kg).[4][5] Boiling vegetables lowers nitrate but not nitrite.[5] Fresh meat contains 0.4-0.5 mg/kg nitrite and 4–7 mg/kg of nitrate (10–30 mg/kg nitrate in cured meats).[3] The presence of nitrite in animal tissue is a consequence of metabolism of nitric oxide, an important neurotransmitter.[6] Nitric oxide can be created de novo from nitric oxide synthase utilizing arginine or from ingested nitrate or nitrite.[7] Most research on negative effects of nitrites on humans predates discovery of nitric oxide's importance to human metabolism and human endogenous metabolism of nitrite.
Food additive
As a food additive, it serves a dual purpose in the food industry since it both alters the color of preserved fish and meats and also prevents growth of Clostridium botulinum, the bacterium which causes botulism. In the European Union it may be used only as a mixture with salt containing at most 0.6% sodium nitrite. It has the E number E250. Potassium nitrite (E249) is used in the same way.
While this chemical will prevent the growth of bacteria, it can be toxic in high amounts for animals, including humans. Sodium nitrite's LD50 in rats is 180 mg/kg and its human LDLo is 71 mg/kg, meaning a 65 kg person would likely have to consume at least 4.615 g to result in death.[8] To prevent toxicity, sodium nitrite (blended with salt) sold as a food additive is dyed bright pink to avoid mistaking it for plain salt or sugar.
Medical uses
Recently, sodium nitrite has been found to be an effective means to increase blood flow by dilating blood vessels, acting as a vasodilator. Research is ongoing to investigate its applicability towards treatments for sickle cell anemia, cyanide poisoning, heart attacks, brain aneurysms, and pulmonary hypertension in infants.[9][10]
An intravenous mixture including sodium nitrite solution has been used as an emergency treatment for cyanide poisoning (see Cyanide#Antidote).

My take on this....
My suspicion:
As speculated...possibly the work of our own people and opportunistic tit-for-tat as suggested...just g**gle enuff, you will find the possible suspects.
Maybe it's just bad translation (results from g**gling) but if it's word for word accurate..very poor analysis, I have my reservations...I dun even trust my medical doctor a 100%.
Possibly opportunistic scare mongering for their own advantage by people in the industry.
Just read some of the supposedly 'research' and you will get an idea who in the supply chain will gain from this fiasco.
Also my rant on hare brained product tracking....hhmmmm!
My thoughts:
Sodium nitrite occurs naturally in fresh raw EBN from ammonia fumes in the BHs.
They are water soluble...I dun know if anyone has taken to eating EBN raw, uncleaned, unwashed and uncooked.
Anyway, read the Wiki writeup, maybe we shd stop eating all the above mentioned vege and meat and refuse the medication.
Swallow enuff pure water...you too will die from it...nothing doctors can do anything about as your cells get over diluted.
In the days before the internet, reading enuff of the CAP newsletter, you too will just drink pure water cos' most foodstuff will eventually kill you.

If it has reached the mass media the damage is already done.
Bad news reaches more people than the good ones.

No 1? We are not the best nor the worst, we are proudly mediocre.
A such we are No 1 at being perpetually mediocre.

It's not what you are implying.
Cave nests have been harvested by the locals way before BH keeping began.
A traditional source of income ought to be protected and improved upon if possible.
Sadly the legal custodian of cave nest has failed the birds and the locals badly.
Rumour has it that another uniformed branch of the govt has undermined the 1st custodian.
Well..., we live in a democracy, if the locals so decide that it's good enuff for them, we are left talking about it.
Even their legislation are different from Peninsula M'sia.
We in Pen have attempted to influence legislation thus far, but we dun see that happening with our bros over in the East.
Not for lack of interest by the politicians...I can attest 1 of the MPs who spoke for us in Parliament on the Wildlife Act is from E.M'sia.
Not doing anything will leave the devil to return to haunt us one day.
Remember there isnt any distinction between cave and BH nests in existing legislations.
What happens next if the cave nest collection were to totally collapse?

I think it's timely I remind everyone here what transpired in Parliament.
IIRC the Conservation of Wildlife Act 2010 was passed w/o amendments and the offensive clauses remain intact.
When questioned in Parliament the minister replied that EBN trade does not come under the Act.
(someone even reported raids on EBN outlets prior to the Act being passed in Parliament...so you see the reason for my cynicism)
It may be wise for folks to surf the Parliament Hansard (it's online) to pull out his reply as your insurance (keep a copy yourself), if ever the clause were to be invoked for EBN/AF. If it ever happens, take it to yr MP and have the minister referred to their Parliament committees (forgot the name) for misleading the house or whatever .
We live in a country where official records can conveniently disappear and even state legislature minutes(or whatever they call it) with convenient omissions.

I wonder if anyone has purchased ready-to-consume EBN that are shaped like a corner nest?
I am not certain but I doubt so.
All it says is the raw EBN buyers make more from corner nest as they will sell all (corner and 180 deg) at the same price.
Reason being the cleaners break them all (180deg as well as corner ones) down for cleaning.
They are then reassembled into 180deg EBN.
The only valid reason for corner nest to fetch lower price is if corner nest are more difficult to clean even after disassembling.
Appreciate feedback for my learning.

What prompted my original post was there are lots of photos on the net showing nests being reassembled (thus broken up for cleaning) on molds.
My thinking was corner nest will eventually be reassembled into cups why the price difference.

thks for your explanation.
To recap yr explanation.. for dry-cleaning they are NOT broken up while wet-cleaning they are broken up.
Wheter wet or dry corner nest present additional difficulties in cleaning.

Is the degree of additional difficulty justify the vast price difference?

My original question remain unanswered...do EBN outlets ever sell cleaned EBN that are NOT cups?
to reword...do outlets sell cleaned EBN that are corner shaped?

Sifus,
Would appreciate if I receive some critique on the following design
Thank you in advance.

There are ledges on each floor in the LAL, to be accessed over the 3' tall wall of of the LAR.
I plan to place a stout mobile platform resting snugly on the ledges when in need.
Removed when done. Used in tandem with a safety harness of course!
The ledges are the results of the diff of the thickness of the columns and beams with the walls.
The orientation necessitated by neighbor's tall rubber trees on the EAST which may interfere with the flight path.
The LMBs are facing the clearest flight paths available on the site.

Thks.
Any comments on the dimensions?
LAL - 12' 10" x 15' 2"
LMB - 3' x 2'

This post has been edited by Cergau: Jun 30 2011, 10:54 AM

thks for comments.
like this? which I shared in V2?
comments from sifus then warned against the danger of offset LAL.
Due mainly from disorientation from working in the dark.


How did you arrive at your 'observation'?
Do you have the benefit of having/seeing both types at startup at the same time in the same locality?
Not a challenge but curiosity... cos' I still harbor the believe an offset LAL affords a smoother glide thus the 'preferred' LAL design.

How do you straddle the void when you harvest the nests above the void?
Does positioning yourself and your 'spider-contraption' (my guess) over the void get into the birds way big time?