Looks like just us 3... lol... nope did not see the NTV7/TV8 talk on swiftlet...

Saw a bat hanging in the roving area. Any suggestions as what is to be done?

If there is bat, should get rid of it. Try to install light to deter. Bat hate lighted up area.

Just to share with others forummers on my experience with swiftlet echo location ability. Recently i fitted partial partition to cut out the brightness in my birdhouse. As planned earlier I did a partial partition from the ceiling down using 4 feet ceiling board. When i went to inspect my birdhouse in the evening I heard something knocking on the board. Did not pay much attention until I went in one day at noon and sure enough I saw some birds did smashed into the board on entering. I am in a dilema whether to remove the board or just let it be. For the time being I decided not to remove yet. I am wondering why such thing can happen when the birds are equipped with echo-location and can move about in the dark so freely and yet knocked into the partition board on entering the birdhouse. May be during entering they fly at great speed and as such echo location is not applied during that time.

Just to share with all this experience for our mutual benefits.

birds dont have brakes i guess... but think of yourself as the bird on what you could do to slow down the speed.

i suggest u take it down for the safety of your swiftlet. can u put the photos for everyone to see so that we can learn and also share ideas.

thanks

Cant offer any opinion on the bats cos' I think we aim to create a cave environment. Once we get that, bats like it too. I think in the natural environment, bats & swiftlets share caves. Would like to listen to sifus' opinion.
It was shared in an earlier post (if recollection doesnt fail me) of a similar experience.
Just cant remember if a solution was offered then in the post.
My inference is that echolation is used only selectively (same way you use yr high beam for night driving).
This is borne out by the fact that when you see them in flight, you do not hear the clacking sound all the time.
Me thinks that birds at the point of going in dont use echolation (same way, you dont check for obstacles when you enter yr own room).
IMHO they fly in thru habit/conditioning and then turn on their ecolation in the dark to get to their own nest.

If it was my bird house, I will remove it immediately, and if need be, will install the partition incrementally ie maybe 3 inches at a time.
My 2 bits.

Sifus,
I humbly seek your comments on my proposed BH design.
Thank you in advance.



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I think it could be due to the type of material you used for the partition board. Soft surface board will not reflect sound wave as good as hard surface board.

I like the idea of the staircase. Maybe add in a big glass panel at the door entrance each floor for visitor viewing and monitoring purposes ?
I can safely say that your top floor will be very bright with such large opening. But you can reduce the opening in stages depending on actual circumstances in the future.
15' ?? You plan to create a 7.5" mezz flloor in the future ? Periodical maintenance will be much more tougher and the risk of climbing 10' high every now and then.

This post has been edited by aeiou228: Feb 8 2010, 09:47 PM

aeiou228,
thks for yr comments.
It's only recently that I am convinced of this 15' design. It came abt from a fren's fren who does BH contracting work. He also mantains the BH he builds with a retainer fee ie for a fee he will replace any broken stuff for an agreed period of time, mostly speakers frm his experience. He mentioned that when he finds time enuff to build his own BH he will build it 15'. He told of seeing fledgings taking their 1st flight go splat onto the floor due to insufficient height in 10' BHs. It make sense to me. IMHO we mostly design with considerations to adult birds cos' they will be the brood stock. Me thinks I need to think abt the new fledgings too.

I have heard of folks building 7' (mezzanine as you call it) tall BHs (read it in a blog, also a BH contractor). Also there are actual BHs of shipping containers (8.5') in a blog. I have actually done some research in terms of cost and design...you can reduce the cost by 50% for a 20' x 80' x 3 storey, if it works. My concern is heat & noise insulation and of course my new 'belief' of a tall wall for BH.
Anyone here know of a successful BH done up with shipping containers? The example in the blog, only has 1 nest. Also not as cheap as mentioned in the blog. I contacted the local containers suppliers and was given a ballpark of RM5K for a 20 footer with insulation. These are real shipping containers and not those that are fabricated from corrugated sheets used for construction site offices. Google 'ISBU' (short for Intermodal Steel Building Units), they are used quite extensively overseas.

Also, I plan to design a collapsible scaffolding on castors that I can roll along. Normal scaffolding 6', so double height 12' feet. I am definitely above 3' tall. So no problem-lah. Just afraid that the birds will fly into me when I am so high up!! Also there are 3' scaffolding, so I can make it 9' if necessary.

This post has been edited by Cergau: Feb 8 2010, 11:00 PM

I was once convinced that high floor is good for swiftlets too. No doubt about it, the higher the better for the birds. But I changed my mind after seeing those 9' floor height BH also as successful.

Though higher ceiling provides safer environment for the birds but it may cause failure to a BH too. This is because the height also provides safer environment for predators such as squires, lizards, bats too. Catching or chasing them away is already a daunting task for a 10' high floor and now we talking about 15' high ceiling ?...gosh !! it will be extremely difficult. Just imaging how difficult you want to catch a lizard in your house.....

This post has been edited by aeiou228: Feb 8 2010, 11:45 PM

ahchard,
Items for my DIY kit
1)Any box to fit all in a nice portable package (some folks use document case u get from stationary shop)
2)12V Amplifier (I had to buy cos' my car stereo still run on cassette tapes) (RM120)
3)tweeters - (RM3-4 each)
4)speaker wire (RM6/metre)
5)power cable (dun use the speaker wire!!!!, though speaker wires are supposed to have less resistance, the ones you get frm J Pasar sort of just heat up, so I use the cheapo ones frm electrical shop (very cheap, a few RM per roll , enuff to fly kite with)).
Just remember if you are putting yr amplifier in the box, they get hot after half hr, so keep it slightly open to ventilate.
6)thumb drive for bird call

Good luck





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Nice item you got there

BTW, you can't harvest ( or rather dangerous to harvest) the nests on top of the 1st floor's LAL. unless you place the 2 LAL on a same alignment.

Hi Cergau,
just for discussing on the design of your BH,
i guess you can have some saving in construction cost if
1) reduce the ceiling height to say 12ft of 10ft?
2) run your staircase through the LAL hole, this shall save you one wall per floor (short side)
3) do away with the small observation room/lounge at the top floor
4) use corrugated zince roof (rather than concrete slap), but some shall say security issue, but since it's a stand alone, it's quite difficult to climb up to the roof. As a thief, i'll most probably enter by breaking the door, or asking the owner to open up(with force of course)
5) do a 2 storey rather than a 3 storey
6) do a double/tripper tier nesting plank (apartment style)
7) do a Dog Kennel entrance, most probably since it's in an agriculture land, double that as a roving area, this shall free up the "open roof" area so you can put up more nesting plan?

The above is just my personal opinion just for discussion as a newbie, who has never own a BH yet (hopefuly soon). Care to comment?

Wow, I didnt realise this is going to be so much fun chasing away so many diff types of unwanted guests.
Looks to me I will needing a blowpipe too
thks for the warning.

Now I need to put on my thinking cap to see if I can AVOID such pests instead of having to deal with them after they get in.
One thing that comes to mind is something Dunsun mentioned.. ie slippery material wrapped around the BH for those crawlies.
If connected to TNB power, maybe some form of physical obstacle around the cable. After all now adays they use the insulated power cable anyway, shd be safe enuff to do something like that.
Just dun know how to avoid the bats.
I am still thinking of the infrared lighting connected to a PIR sensor.
If you have the PIR sensor facing out, it shd trigger before it gets into the BH.
Or maybe something physical like a mist net (I have seen Perhilitan use them to do bird sampling).
The nets will take care of both bats and owls.
Just need to figure a way to automate the timed deployment.
Or maybe someone with some good electronic experience can fabricate a timer triggered auto-gate of light material like wire-mesh.
That ought to sell amongst us, ANY TAKERS?
Ting! Ting! another idea, those fish pellet dispensers use in commercial fish ponds.
Those can be ripped apart for the timer and motor.
I may try DIY this someday when the need arises.

---

Added on February 9, 2010, 1:10 amRaymondetc,
thks for yr comments.
"1) reduce the ceiling height to say 12ft of 10ft?"
My thinking was that most contractors quote by the floor space, height is never mentioned, maybe they will factor in additional for a 15' height.

"2) run your staircase through the LAL hole, this shall save you one wall per floor (short side)"
I dont want any obstruction in the nesting area and also cos' of the way contractors quote as in pt 1. Additional wall may not add on to cost.

"3) do away with the small observation room/lounge at the top floor"
It's a nice-to-have thing, not at all necessary. But then, what the heck, we need some luxury too at the end of the day. Have some friends over for drinks and a nice view of the surrounding.

"4) use corrugated zince roof (rather than concrete slap), but some shall say security issue, but since it's a stand alone, it's quite difficult to climb up to the roof. As a thief, i'll most probably enter by breaking the door, or asking the owner to open up(with force of course)"
Yes, it's security consideration, I know of a shophse BH that is for sale in the P Klg area. Owner sort of 'give-up' due to the frequent thefts thru the roof. This BH is also termite infested.
One consideration is to use metal trusses (newer hses use that) to avoid termites. That still leaves thermal insulation to deal with. My neighbor just had his roof changed due to termite infestation, cost RM30K for trusses and new tiles. I figured that amt will buy me a concrete roofing with less of a concern over theft thru roof.

"5) do a 2 storey rather than a 3 storey"
Yes, I am still considering a half size BH of say 25' x 40' x 3 storey and expand side ways when need arises. But not 2 story to 3 story. That will be too much disturbance to existing birds. Also that will be like a new BH as the birds will need to get used to a new LMB at a diff height. (see Swiftlailai sharing).

"6) do a double/tripper tier nesting plank (apartment style)"
Wah, very greedy -ah! Definitely when my BH spills over.

"7) do a Dog Kennel entrance, most probably since it's in an agriculture land, double that as a roving area, this shall free up the "open roof" area so you can put up more nesting plan?"
Yes, that's a good idea, thks. I will mull over it a while. It helps with rain getting in too.
I have another design with a sort of DK but doesnt double as a roving area though.

My primary objective is not so much the cost (though important) but what I think the birds will like (gathered frm this forum and 2 books)
Then only cutting the unnecessary for cost consideration.

---

Added on February 9, 2010, 1:33 amaeiou228,
1)thks, took me a day to make the test kit.
2)Yes, I can see that now. I intended the mobile scaffolding to straddle the full width of the BH, just dun know if it will be unyielding to wheel such a big contraption in the BH running over piles of guano. I have 4.5' on each side of the LAL to play with. Need to imagine this further if the scaffolding can be strengthened w/o a centre support when I wheel it over the LAL.
thanks again.

This post has been edited by Cergau: Feb 9 2010, 01:33 AM

Dear Cergau,

For safety reason, I would just give up that small real estate. It's better not to risk life over some bird nests 30' high on the ceiling.
Just in case you haven't heard news that BH owners and workers fell to his death thru LAL.

This post has been edited by aeiou228: Feb 9 2010, 11:51 PM

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cergau,

what software did you use to model the BH? looks impressive!

Nice feature and it also provides "involuntary" exercise opportunity too
But must safety railing is a must. I almost fell at the staircase once before. Malang Tak Berbau !!

I use Google Sketchup (it's free).
Nice features
1)You can make shadows fall for diff times of the day so you can roughly gauge the brightness in the BH.
2)You can also overlay yr BH from Sketchup onto the actual spot in Google Earth.



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thks,
My personal safety will not be compromised.
There will be hand rails for the staircase & circumference railing for the LAL.

cergau,

thanks, downloading sketchup now!

btw, my humble comments on your design:

1. 15' floor to floor
is too high & dangerous, you might be planing to split to 7.5' + 7.5' when successful. its easier and more worthwhile to build another BH, to not keep eggs in one basket. after all, raking in millions, give la the contractors some job!

2. single flight staircase
looks way too steep & dangerous, consider incorporating a landing & the spares can be your "control room" where the cctv & speaker etc is housed

3. Observation room
too big, may obstruct sound path & flight path, i am not sure, you probably planning on having a double bed with 50" plasma there. I wont be sitting there in the evening coz since u use glass, its going to be hot! curtains, then u cant look out ??@??

4. dog kennel entrance
helps as rain Shelter & light control into your nesting area

5. RC roof
its going to be 35 degrees at nesting planks below on a sunny day at the nesting planks. consider using some insulation

good luck!