Some people say you can't know happiness until you know sadness. You can't know wealth until you've known poverty. I think there is some truth to it from my observation of rich people. Got big house, big car, women, lots of money, and still not happy liao.

I started thinking about it when I saw people playing video games. If someone took your game away, you will be mad. The question is why, Your real-life survival doesn't depend on the game. Some say it is a time-waster becoz you burn 40-50 hours and got nothing but red eyes but it is so important in your life that you cannot let it go. Shouldn't you be thanking the guy who takes it away because he's relieving you of a problem? No game, no need to worry about high score, right?

A video game is an imaginary challenge. So is skydiving, street racing, learning music, etc. We don't actually need to do these things to survive but we do it anyway. We actually spend a staggering the amount of energy and money trying to solve imaginary problems, to score an imaginary goal. If we succeed, we feel good about ourselves. We get self esteem and confidence, something to brag about. If we don't, we try again.

Everybody says they hate problems but guess what we do when we have no problems. We start looking for a problem to solve. A hobby, a sport, a project, something that can make us declare, "Yes!! I did it!!"

That's why I think we need our problems to be happy. What do you think?

This might help with the question.

In your opinion, what is happiness? Is it a) the absence of problems? or b) our ability to conquer them?

If (a) then techincally you are happiest when you are dead. If (b), if we could remove all the challenges in our lives, then we also remove any possibility for us to be happy because without challenges there is nothing more to conquer. This is another way of saying we need pain and problems to be happy. (Yup it sounds kinda s&m twisted but I don't know how else to put it.)

Next time you start wishing oh, if only all my problems would disappear, I would be so happy, be careful of your wish. Because if what I think is right, you'll be more miserable than happy if all your problems disappear.

What do you think?

I agree.
For joy is when problems are no longer problems.

solving problems one feels relief. while yes, feeling relief leads to feeling joy, feeling joy does not necessarily have to come from feeling reliefed.

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Added on May 4, 2010, 10:53 pmhappiness is the absence of sadness. it does not mean that sadness has to be removed. it simply means sadness isnt there.

but we do not normally feel happiness unless first sadness/anguish is felt. but not being able to notice the feeling of happiness doesnt mean we are not happy.

Just like health. a person does not need to be sick to be healthy. but when one is healthy one does not notice it. we dont think too much about it. we just have it.



This post has been edited by teongpeng: May 4 2010, 10:53 PM

you get happy when you solve problems. The absence of problems is not happiness.

Its like, humans can't live without work. The satisfaction after solving a hard problem, the joy it brings - that is happiness

Thanks for your opinion guys.

teongpeng says happiness is the absence of sadness. Something Else says the absence of problems is not happiness.

Could happiness be defined by describing what it is than what its not? We do that in physics where cold is merely the absence of heat. There is no such thing as 'cold.' If happiness is the absence of sadness, then could it be that there is really no such thing as happiness?

It sounds trivial but I am trying to figure out what people really mean when they say they are looking for happiness. The other day a fren said she wanted to enjoy herself so she went shopping with her friends. Ended up with a $1,000 credit card bill. She will be working 6 months to pay that off, dealing with people she rather not deal with. So we find happiness by putting ourselves thru more torture? That's why my mind couldn't compute.

Consider this definition of happiness. Happiness is to find one's hearts desire. Would you look at happiness differently as oppose to taking the dialectic approach (absence of sadness)? Consider also this definition. Problems are obstacle ecounter. The challenge to tackle the problem is an attitude question.

I am seeing the happiness by the degree of level; whether the person has high / low level of happiness. Happiness level is fluctuating. A person is happy or not happy can be seen by cumulative scores of his / her happiness level.

Seeking the happiness is possible, thus for example some people go shopping to increase the happiness level. Then they will be happy with it. Here, shopping become one part for the cumulative scores in happiness. the other parts for example a good family, loyal friends etc...

The problem I have with defining happiness as satisfying one's desire is that it is a double edged sword. I buy the car of my dreams, I am satisfied & happy. But for that I have to pay back the loan for 5 years. I develop a fear of losing my job which will mean separating from the thing I love. Fear is the opposite of happiness.

Same thing if you have a beautiful girlfriend, the girl of your dreams. You are happy but the problem is, 20 other guys may also think she is beautiful. Sometimes that create problem for her and for you. You fear losing her. Fear is the opposite of happiness.

Wherever there is sunshine there is always a shadow. Not trying to be negative minded but just describing something obvious from my point of view.

Beastboy,

The PROBLEM is you get caught in DUALITY.

You BELIEVE that is GOOD and BAD. But, they are Ying and Yang. They co-exist. The GOOD and BAD is just from YOUR POV. It does not change the FACT that they are Ying and Yang. Neither good or bad. It just IS.

http://www.101zenstories.com/index.php?story=31

<< Everything is Best

When Banzan was walking through a market he overheard a conversation between a butcher and his customer.

"Give me the best piece of meat you have," said the customer.

"Everything in my shop is the best," replied the butcher. "You cannot find here any piece of meat that is not the best."

At these words Banzan became enlightened.>>

Everything is BEST.

To be enlightened, you have to TRANSCEND the DUALITY.

Dreamer

P.S.: It is VERY SIMPLE. If you want to be HAPPY, then, you are HAPPY. If not, you are NOT. It is ALL up to YOU. You DO NOT NEED anything else. It is ALL within YOU.

This post has been edited by dreamer101: May 9 2010, 08:53 AM

What u say is true, dreamer101.

If percpeptions make reality, I would say 99.99% of the world population is caught up in duality.

Beastboy,

There are NO REALITY. There are ALL ILLUSIONS.

Your eyes see something and YOUR BRAIN interpret it to be something. Everything that you SEE is an interpretation by YOU BRAIN. You have NO IDEA what that thing is anyhow. You just have AN ILLUSION or APPROXIMATION of what it IS.

Dreamer

next time a speeding car is heading towards you,remember don't evade and let it run over you,since it's an illusion anyhow...

But you see. The moment you think "remember don't evade and let it run over you", it's already making you submitting to the illusion, because you actually did believe there's a car coming for you. What dreamer101 meant was: "Nothing it's really what it seems to be".

this does not solve the problem either,the car is apparently heading towards you,if you believe it's an illusion then by all means you would not attempt to avoid it...
and let me ask you something,dare to apply this 'philosophy' in situations like this?

This post has been edited by CleverDick: May 9 2010, 01:48 PM

The idea is to understand the philosophy, not to dare yourself to test it with situations. Because when you "attempt" to test it, that attempt already has a precognition that you actually believed that the illusion is real, hence it will be real, and hence the car heading towards you is about run you over.

interesting notion,so everything is illusion,including yourself?


This post has been edited by CleverDick: May 10 2010, 12:29 AM

You can't really see yourself until you look into a mirror, or let someone else sees you right? What you perceive may be an illusion, but how you perceive it, and what you do, whether in actions or inaction, that is actually real.

no. everything is REAL. only perceptions are illusions.

This post has been edited by teongpeng: May 9 2010, 03:24 PM

i understand what you're trying to say,it's just that at first i thought what dreamer101 said was 'EVERYTHING is illusion' so i went on to suggest the consequence if we were to instinctively assume everything happens around us is unreal,i hope this clarifies my stance...

This post has been edited by CleverDick: May 9 2010, 04:18 PM

The cup of water is an illusion.

But what if you take the cup, drink it, savor it, appreciate it, washing the cup diligently, keep the water in a safe place for future enjoyment?

All those experiences that came from just an illusion are real. However, you must not forget that the cup of water is only a cup of water until you react towards it, otherwise it is as good as NOTHING, nothing, but a mere cup of water, as if it just there as an image which can be ignored and be forgotten at that particular moment. Don't believe me? Give it a few more days or perhaps weeks. Not only you will forget about that specific cup of water, but you will behave AS IF it NEVER existed. I believe this may be a stance of how all things are really an illusion. It is our "will" and "whole-self" (be it spiritual or physical) that gives meaning to things around us, and consciously the way we react and interact with these "illusions, i.e. tangibility" also tells a lot about ourselves, and might just give a glimpse of what life is supposed to be.

The absence of problems removes the value of happiness, and I will have to say it's (b).

Happiness is such a revolting experience that it was created in such a way that it MUST include the lack/absence of it, i.e. sadness, so that you can be happy about it.

This post has been edited by Deadlocks: May 9 2010, 04:36 PM