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Philosophy Do we need our problems to be happy?

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teongpeng
post May 4 2010, 10:49 PM

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solving problems one feels relief. while yes, feeling relief leads to feeling joy, feeling joy does not necessarily have to come from feeling reliefed.


Added on May 4, 2010, 10:53 pmhappiness is the absence of sadness. it does not mean that sadness has to be removed. it simply means sadness isnt there.

but we do not normally feel happiness unless first sadness/anguish is felt. but not being able to notice the feeling of happiness doesnt mean we are not happy.

Just like health. a person does not need to be sick to be healthy. but when one is healthy one does not notice it. we dont think too much about it. we just have it.



This post has been edited by teongpeng: May 4 2010, 10:53 PM
teongpeng
post May 9 2010, 03:24 PM

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QUOTE(CleverDick @ May 9 2010, 02:04 PM)
interesting notion,so everything is illusion,including yourself?
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no. everything is REAL. only perceptions are illusions.

This post has been edited by teongpeng: May 9 2010, 03:24 PM
teongpeng
post May 9 2010, 06:20 PM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ May 9 2010, 04:25 PM)
Happiness is such a revolting experience that it was created in such a way that it MUST include the lack/absence of it, i.e. sadness, so that you can be happy about it.  biggrin.gif
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disagree.

as i had explained before...to be healthy one does not need to be unhealthy. To be happy one does not need to be unhappy beforehand.



teongpeng
post May 10 2010, 10:50 PM

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QUOTE(Beastboy @ May 10 2010, 10:18 AM)
Actually there is a lot of unhealthiness in a 'healthy' body. We have toxin buildup and germ warfare going on every second. 'Health' only means our healthy bits are stronger than our unhealthy bits.

A healthy body doesn't just happen. It needs to be conditioned. That conditioning involves the pain of exercise and often unhealthiness like immunization. When we immunize, they inject a germ (weak dose) into us that we wish to immunize against. Its like throwing us to a gang fight, a small one so we toughen up and are prepared for the big one. We usually feel unwell a day or two after the innoculation.

If we take all that away beforehand, we will be unhealthy. That is the causal link between unhealthiness and health that I see.
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Not quite. taking effort and feeling the 'pain' of exercise are subjective to interpretation and does not make u unhealthy. uncomfortable yes, unhealthy? no.


Added on May 10, 2010, 10:55 pm
QUOTE(Deadlocks @ May 9 2010, 07:15 PM)
If that's the case, what is the meaning of unhappiness when it's obviously an experience most will shun?
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same can be asked of unhealthyness.

This post has been edited by teongpeng: May 10 2010, 10:56 PM
teongpeng
post May 11 2010, 05:24 PM

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QUOTE(Beastboy @ May 11 2010, 09:28 AM)
I see where you're coming from and you have a good point. I do remember falling sick for a day after I got an innoculation, for smallpox I think. Would you say having fever as being in a healthy or unhealthy state? If not unhealthy, would we describe the people getting treatment at the clinic for cough, fever, etc. as not sick? (sick = unhealthy)
What the heck are u talking about?! having fever is sick is unhealthy laaaa doh.gif

While you may be healthy after u've been sick....that doesnt mean u cant be healthy unless you're sick.

C'mon bro...i had such good impression about you. sweat.gif

This post has been edited by teongpeng: May 11 2010, 05:27 PM
teongpeng
post May 20 2010, 01:58 AM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ May 20 2010, 01:34 AM)
But you see, the problem is that even unhealthy people are capable of being happy. But I'm trying to say is that that the description of the "good", intangible, "feeling" known as happiness cannot be gauged as a nice, acceptable, and embraced feeling until there's an exact opposite emotion that promotes the lack of that particular feeling.
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WTF are u talking about dude.....ofcoz unhealthy ppl can be happy. rclxub.gif thats not what i mean at all....

and im not going to repeat what i mean because its been made very clear in the first place.

Its annoying how many ppl here cant read and understand very basic and straight forward ideas and anologies. sad.gif

teongpeng
post May 20 2010, 02:06 AM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ May 20 2010, 02:00 AM)
Well in that case, pray explain. Because I don't think I can fully understand the analogy you've pointed out.
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like i said, what the Fark, dude? rclxub.gif

teongpeng
post May 20 2010, 02:15 AM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ May 20 2010, 02:08 AM)
This is how we got started:
And so I pointed out, and so you asked me what the f**k. So explain, if I'm really missing something here.
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you really dont understand that?!?!??!?!?!?! blink.gif sweat.gif

im very very dissapointed in you, deadlocks. mad.gif

This post has been edited by teongpeng: May 20 2010, 02:24 AM
teongpeng
post May 25 2010, 09:15 PM

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QUOTE(vivienne85 @ May 25 2010, 09:07 PM)
well, problems will always be around the corner, whether you are looking for it or not.
*

so are solutions.

anyway, fancy seeing u this side of the forum vivienne. smile.gif

teongpeng
post May 25 2010, 09:23 PM

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QUOTE(vivienne85 @ May 25 2010, 09:18 PM)
nice to see u too...lol

yup...solutions are there.
the issue is whether one wants to explore the different solutions given out there or he/she rather be a coward by not facing the problem.
*

so do u think we must first face problems before we be happy? In other words...is unhappiness a prequisite for happiness? the real topic of debate on this thread.

teongpeng
post May 25 2010, 09:33 PM

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QUOTE(vivienne85 @ May 25 2010, 09:27 PM)
ok...hmmm
well, i dont think so.
clever girl biggrin.gif

teongpeng
post May 26 2010, 01:55 AM

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happiness is simply the absence of unhappiness. adi say so many times liau.
teongpeng
post May 30 2010, 07:35 PM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ May 30 2010, 11:50 AM)
Sadness is not necessarily needed for happiness, but it sure helps you to understand and appreciate happiness than its original value, i.e. like how some call it: "thy true happiness".

Think about it. A world where sadness simply does not exist. Everyone's joyful and jumping around, and laughing and stuff.

But the problem is, with such a society where sadness is not possible, why will one even bother with the question: "Are you happy?"

And since no one bothers about such a question, why should one bother with the word: "happy", a term to describe a specific, human emotion?

And since no one bothers about this "happy" word, isn't the word "happy" simply just vestigial word? An emotion that is so common (since there aren't any sadness available in the world) that people are simply living their lives without knowing what being "happy" really means? Will that then, means, that a world without sadness will simply be a world that is simply voided of all emotions, simply "happiness" is simply valued as something "common", and "mundane"?
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rclxub.gif u think too much. the existence of sadness for happiness to make sense DOES NOT make the former a prerequisite to achieve the latter. He can merely choose to understand sadness once...and if he is wise enough...he would choose not to experience it again and live happily ever after.

teongpeng
post May 30 2010, 11:24 PM

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QUOTE(lin00b @ May 30 2010, 10:32 PM)
and how would you understand sadness without experiencing it?
u dont have to jump off the building to know it will kill u.

teongpeng
post May 30 2010, 11:40 PM

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QUOTE(lin00b @ May 30 2010, 11:27 PM)
yes, books tell me that, but i have yet to find a book that adequately explain feelings like sad, love, etc

as well as feelings are not such discrete and fixed properties that different people experience it the same way for the same event. heck the same people might have different feeling about the same event at different point of life.

bad analogy much?
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poor understand much? laugh.gif

are books the only way u learn things? do u lack basic observatory skills? what about empathy? u can experience sadness without being really sad u know.

This post has been edited by teongpeng: May 30 2010, 11:42 PM
teongpeng
post May 31 2010, 12:06 AM

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QUOTE(lin00b @ May 30 2010, 11:47 PM)
uh huh, yeah right, please give some examples.

experience sadness = being sad.
*

yes. but without a real niggling reason to remain sad, one can quickly switch it off. its not real.

teongpeng
post May 31 2010, 12:25 AM

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QUOTE(lin00b @ May 31 2010, 12:14 AM)
so sadness now is defined by the time period? sad is sad, stop twisting about.
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no, silly. but there is a difference between emphatising sadness and actually going thru the actual debacle. for instance, you see some dungu feel sad because he lost his money in gambling. u feel his sadness. its not yours. u just contemplate and well...emphatised (how do u spell this anyway? lol ) with him. and then u choose not to go thru that kinda experience.



teongpeng
post May 31 2010, 07:32 AM

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QUOTE(lin00b @ May 31 2010, 12:37 AM)
i can observe his reaction to his sadness, i cannot feel his sadness because i'm not him. and i avoid it because i dont want to have the same reaction. i have no idea what the experience is.

and even come back to you example. if i dont gamble and lose money, would i be happy? i would be in an emotionally neutral state because i will have no idea what is the emotionally negative state is
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bodoh nye.....

having decided that u do not want to be sad...you would be happy that you're not sad.

to be in a neutral state would mean u are numbed emotionally when thats definately not the case. please dont argue like a child.

Have u ever been in a country at war? look at iraq and u're automatically happy you're not there. u dont even have to ever be there at all.

This post has been edited by teongpeng: May 31 2010, 07:35 AM
teongpeng
post May 31 2010, 07:08 PM

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QUOTE(lin00b @ May 31 2010, 06:59 PM)
are you sad now? no? does that mean you are happy?
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yes.

happiness is a degree. there is no neutral stage. u can be happier or delighted, and u can be less happier or less delighted, but you're still happy.

as long as u dont dropped down to the unhappiness level, u are deemed to be happy.

thus one can derived that, happiness is there when unhappiness is not.





teongpeng
post May 31 2010, 11:56 PM

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QUOTE(lin00b @ May 31 2010, 07:14 PM)
at what point does your happiness scale slide to the unhappy side? and at that exact boundary point, are you happy, or unhappy?

or a more scientific analogy, at pH 7, is a liquid acidic, or alkaline?
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it cannot be measured scientifically. well..atleast i dont know how.

the boundary is sad at the point where unhappiness enters the picture.


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