So we are expected to believe the Sultan and all his macha are God fearing people, back in those days? But if you murdered him in the end (and that is what happened), it is also the same thing - murder. Murder is against God's will, correct? So God will still be angry.

I don't believe that back in those days, they didn't practice a lot of black magic. Because today, it is still going on, especially in rural areas. So last time when most of Malaya is covered by jungle and kampung, no electricity...use candle only, it should be a lot more.

Of coz la. Coz sultan is leader of the Islamic religion. even though killing is a sin but if you worship devil is sin that Allah will not forgive. After islam came to malaysia. Black magic is not practice anymore coz if you see the people that using black magic it is scary when you see them facing death.In rural is dayak is the practitioner not islamic person

Ok la. As you say. But you should watch Misteri Nusantara, where it shows a lot of black magic is still going on in Malaysia, and Indonesia, btw NOT Sarawak.....

For me, it is the strength of your mind and your beliefs. So, sorcery only works IF you believe in it. If black magic is used against someone who absolutely does not believe any of this and has an alternate belief system of his or her own, it will not work even if you chant whole day and whole night. If that person is "weak" and does not have strong belief in something, than maybe.....

Same principle in hypnotism. Bottom line is the beliefs that are entrenched in the subconscious mind, are very powerful. So watch what you believe and do not be easily influenced by external elements. Nowadays people are very easily influenced by what they see and hear.

This post has been edited by Xepz: Apr 20 2010, 01:18 PM

With the availability of today's technology, it should be easy to videotape 'proof' of sorcery, right? Is there anything about this at YouTube for example?

haha we a are at 21st century... nothing to worry about ghost... im afraid about what will happen when we reach 2012....

does sorcery includes those like voodoo or blackmagic from thailand? If yes then i need to change my vote from "no" to "not sure".

haha..damnla if sarawak not included...many place in sarawak n sabah is the sorcerer..ask tok batin if he is not practically black magic.If u dont believe sorcery it still can make you sick.Becoz the devil still can do you.For example,you take devil as invisible man,it can punch rite onto ur face.But nothing can be seen.Its the devil art.You cant tape it,becoz it cannot be seen.I give u reality example.Santau.The symptom of santau is u will cough blood same symptom as TIBI. If you had santau and go to the doctor,the doc will said that your lungs is ok.No infection same goes to other doctor.But why you had blood in ur cough?This is happen to my uncle.He is same as u.Dont believe in sorcery.How can u explain things like that.My cousin.She is pregnant until 9 month.until the day she want to deliver her baby,her stomach change to normal and no baby.explain to me why?hypnotis or mistrust to devil

better not mess with these things..yall have no idea what yall dealing with. Stuff as powerful as these, if it's not the gods, its definitely the devils.

why does things that is un-explainable have to be related to either god or devil?

Can't it just be something we yet to understand and that it is on it's own? Can't sorcery be just sorcery? Why does it have to be devil punching you? Can't it be like some ethereal energy or some summoned creature spirit? Again, spirit that doesn't have anything to do with god or devil.

This post has been edited by abubin: Apr 21 2010, 05:59 PM

i believe in physics,technology and sorcery.I do say,yes they exist.

Once i didn't beleive em,but once "kena" you cant deny it.

This is going to sound like Anthony Robbins, but.....sorcery is low level stuff for people who are not in control of their destiny, and do not want to take charge of it either.... I believe it exists, but with conditions.....Anyone can rise above it easily.

I wonder why all the voodoo in the world can't protect Haiti from receiving one of the worst earthquakes in history. So much for digging up graves....now they have an oversupply of corpses to make potions.

This post has been edited by Xepz: Apr 21 2010, 06:21 PM

These are beyond the understanding of those who don't practice it. It's not as simple as you think. Just because we ain't seen enough of the world doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I agree with you. not everything can be explain through physics n sciences.Thats why we have religion.XEPS, If you dare,try ask tok batin to black magic you for one hour.haha..

I didn't say this thing isn't real. Read my post again. I said - With conditions. This kind of thing can only work with certain conditions met. It only affects those who have weak minds. Unfortunately, many have weak minds.

It's like ghosts.... Some people can be affected by ghosts. Others no. Some can see ghosts. Others no.

Some claim that even the ghosts can attack them. Others, the ghosts cannot even lay a finger on them. In fact, the ghosts run away!

People with a strong belief in God, cannot be harmed at all by any kind of black magic, voodoo or any such nonsense.

Something for you to think about. WHY do all these countries where belief in black magic is strong, why are they always so poor and always hit by disasters? Why are they so backward and hopeless? All their sorcery gets them nowhere but then again, they never learn do they?....

There is a sound reason why all religions prohibit people from practicing sorcery.

This post has been edited by Xepz: Apr 21 2010, 11:34 PM

i believe cos i play dota ... use magic can frost bite .. or doom ppl .

Well, there's some truth to what you said about strong minds, but i've heard of cases where pastors are overpowered by sorcery.

Erm im assuming you're talking about Thailand? Are they always hit by disasters? Or are do you have other countries in mind?

Well, I've heard of cases where mediums (or bomohs) start screaming in fear when they are brought near some pastor. And they really start acting like demon possessed....That should be worth looking into from a scientific standpoint.

Maybe a case of - Stronger faith?

Let's see...Indonesia, Haiti, the African continent.... endless poverty, disasters, misery, tsunami, earthquakes, what not...Sorcery is very established in these regions.

I'm curious about the British Empire, how it advances to colonize the largest empire in the world....well most of these countries are backward people who coincidentally or not, believe a lot in sorcery/black magic.

Maybe science is a more "powerful" form of "sorcery" then...

PS: The richest individual person in the world is the Queen of England, not Bill Gates. Estimated wealth - 20-30 trillion dollars, at least.

This post has been edited by Xepz: Apr 22 2010, 12:01 AM

Crap...all these a nonsense that have never been proven and they are subjective like hell like all religions.

Define weak minds. How do you measure power of a mind?
Define STRONG belief in God. How do you measure faith in god?

I believe when a person is obsessed with religion, he/she will more likely to be fallen into some sorcery because of his/her strong believe. This believe leads to how he perceive sorcery and how he will react when HE KNOWS bad sorcery is applied on him. He will go crazy and so on due to the manifestation of his own believe.

Sorcery does not neccessary means it is evil. Why can't sorcery be something like a gun? Good or bad lies in the hand of the beholder. Why does religion have to be involved with sorcery? Why can't sorcery be just like some sort of power that have nothing to do with god or religion? Only god can have un-explained power, is it? The rest is evil doing.

1 word, "competition"

for this logic, poverty can also be like with religion, as the most religious country is usually also poor.