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 Display Calibration Fundamentals : My Take, Display Calibration

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TSanfieldude
post Oct 18 2011, 10:01 AM

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QUOTE(pierreye @ Oct 13 2011, 03:26 PM)
Thanks for the advice. Doing 21 point color balance and gamma is difficult especially on lower IRE. Pratically I had to redo dark reading for every step to ensure repeatability.

With OEMi1D, the reading is quite consistent and repeatable after profile against the i1Pro. I found out for Panasonic plasma for test pattern at 10 IRE and below, the ABL will auto kick in. You can see that the test pattern after few seconds will automatically dim down. With OEMi1D, I can read the value before it dim now which i1Pro can't due to longer time needed to get the avg reading. At 5% IRE, it measure 0.06 and can drop down to 0.02 after ABL kick in. It's kind of annoying as it is difficult to calibrate for an accurate gamma. ABL also kick in for 85% IRE. I believe that is the reason why previously I can get consistent gamma reading when the contrast is at 60 but once I increase it to 80 to boost light output, ABL will kick in. Only way to get a consistent reading is to use APL test pattern but the AVS 709 test patterrn only had 11 steps.
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Does the abl also kick in for the test patterns from the lumagen. It has 3sizes if I recall. The I shd be able to try the smallest size. The selection shd be under hardware on the left. If not we need to try it on my pattern generator. Is this on the py800?

This post has been edited by anfieldude: Oct 18 2011, 10:02 AM
pierreye
post Oct 18 2011, 01:50 PM

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Yes. It happens with Lumagen test pattern and AVSHD test pattern. This is on PY800.
TSanfieldude
post Oct 18 2011, 03:14 PM

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QUOTE(pierreye @ Oct 18 2011, 01:50 PM)
Yes. It happens with Lumagen test pattern and AVSHD test pattern. This is on PY800.
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What was the peak luminance you are getting with the contrast set at 80? The VT20/V20 could easily hit 38ft/L (with decent gamma at 2.2, dips at 10%), so could the U20. The U30 i did could not hit more than 30ft/l even when I cranked up contrast. It does not clip WTW so that made some changes which I believe is due to energy star requirements.
pierreye
post Oct 18 2011, 05:04 PM

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Well, it depends on the test pattern size. From the Lumagen test patterrn windows medium size, I can get around 26.7ft/L. Small size can go up to 35ft/L. You can see the fluctuation by leaving the test pattern on around 5 seconds for 10 IRE and below or 85 IRE and above. I check out in avsforum and seems like some of them also face the same issue on ABL (Dynamic Contrast that can't be defeated). Some suggest using APL windows to maintain the brightness level across the IRE but no conclusive result yet.

This post has been edited by pierreye: Oct 18 2011, 05:07 PM
TSanfieldude
post Oct 18 2011, 06:02 PM

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QUOTE(pierreye @ Oct 18 2011, 05:04 PM)
Well, it depends on the test pattern size. From the Lumagen test patterrn windows medium size, I can get around 26.7ft/L. Small size can go up to 35ft/L. You can see the fluctuation by leaving the test pattern on around 5 seconds for 10 IRE and below or 85 IRE and above. I check out in avsforum and seems like some of them also face the same issue on ABL (Dynamic Contrast that can't be defeated). Some suggest using APL windows to maintain the brightness level across the IRE but no conclusive result yet.
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We could use very small windows that will not trigger ABL. The ABL on the pannys are a little aggresive. More so for the 2011 sets. The Kuros are slightly better especially the 42" and the 50". The 60" are better than most sets except the 42 and 50in.
pierreye
post Oct 19 2011, 08:20 PM

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Redo the greyscale and gamma with Calman 4.4 RC1. 4.3.2 had a bug when using OEMi1D. Now the greyscale tint is no longer an issue except somewhere around 40 IRE. Will re-measure from 30 IRE to 50 IRE with i1Pro to verify the greyscale. Using smaller windows no longer trigger the ABL in higher IRE but the auto dimming at 10 IRE and below still happening.

This post has been edited by pierreye: Oct 19 2011, 08:21 PM
TSanfieldude
post Oct 19 2011, 09:17 PM

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QUOTE(pierreye @ Oct 19 2011, 08:20 PM)
Redo the greyscale and gamma with Calman 4.4 RC1. 4.3.2 had a bug when using OEMi1D. Now the greyscale tint is no longer an issue except somewhere around 40 IRE. Will re-measure from 30 IRE to 50 IRE with i1Pro to verify the greyscale. Using smaller windows no longer trigger the ABL in higher IRE but the auto dimming at 10 IRE and below still happening.
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Will have to watch for that the next time when I do a panny (10% window). Good to know that the OEMiD is a pretty good meter. Also looks like u r getting the hang of the Lumagen now... smile.gif
klimal
post Oct 27 2011, 06:16 PM

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From AVSforum, coderguy has a new projectorcalculator that also gives the fL figures for BEST MODE.
Usin it, it gives me 18fL for Best Mode, Lamp High.

In actual world, my fL dropped to 10fL after calibration.
If after calibration, the fL drops so much, what is the use of such a calculator sine the results are so far off the mark.

I assume most people will want to have their pj calibrated, but to lose so much fL to such low 10fL is something I am unable to reconcile.
The 'pop' in colours and image will be lost at such low luminence, even for a DLP, IMHO.

This post has been edited by klimal: Oct 27 2011, 06:20 PM
TSanfieldude
post Oct 27 2011, 09:50 PM

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QUOTE(klimal @ Oct 27 2011, 06:16 PM)
From AVSforum, coderguy has a new projectorcalculator that also gives the fL figures for BEST MODE.
Usin it, it gives me 18fL for Best Mode, Lamp High.

In actual world, my fL dropped to 10fL after calibration.
If after calibration, the fL drops so much, what is the use of such a calculator sine the results are so far off the mark.

I assume most people will want to have their pj calibrated, but to lose so much fL to such low 10fL is something I am unable to reconcile.
The 'pop' in colours and image will be lost at such low luminence, even for a DLP, IMHO.
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Doc,

Its true. Again, its important to know that most screens do not have as high a gain as advertised. The Best mode with lamp high, is almost always red deficient so in real life the image is tinted green/blue.

10ft/L in a light controlled room is very bright. Remember its 10ft/L on a big screen. It will seem much brighter than 30ft/L on a small screen. The larger the space it illuminates the brigher the image seems.

Most of pjs I calibrate come anywhere between 3-14ft/L. The brightest post calibration so far has been the JVC coming in at around 15ft/L. Pierreye's BenQ comes in slightly higher.

Also take note that since I have the K-10 that is capable of reading low light levels accurately, I did not adjust the K-10 to ensure I was hitting peak light output, more so I adjusted to mimic how ur eye would see it.

By adjusting the angle and working on getting the highest peak output seen by the meter, I could easily have gotten about 20-30% higher.

This post has been edited by anfieldude: Oct 27 2011, 09:53 PM
Keng
post Oct 28 2011, 06:16 PM

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Guys,

Just got myself a 50" FHD plasma & am doing break-in. I'm trying to gather info on how to calibrate the tv later when i've reached say, 100h of playing break-in images.

Do I really need to purchase the calibration tools like mentioned by TS in the 1st page or can I just play certain images with series of colors like how to calibrate a PC monitor?

Your reply is very much appreciated, cheers
TSanfieldude
post Oct 28 2011, 06:31 PM

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QUOTE(Keng @ Oct 28 2011, 06:16 PM)
Guys,

Just got myself a 50" FHD plasma & am doing break-in. I'm trying to gather info on how to calibrate the tv later when i've reached say, 100h of playing break-in images.

Do I really need to purchase the calibration tools like mentioned by TS in the 1st page or can I just play certain images with series of colors like how to calibrate a PC monitor?

Your reply is very much appreciated, cheers
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If u want to carry out a complete calibration of your display for greyscale, gamma and colours u would need the tools. If u want to set the basic settings, u can download or get the basic test discs and set brightness, contrast, sharpness by eye.

PC monitors can also be calibrated, running the series of colours without a meter to read is not calibration.


jchong
post Oct 28 2011, 06:33 PM

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QUOTE(Keng @ Oct 28 2011, 06:16 PM)
Guys,

Just got myself a 50" FHD plasma & am doing break-in. I'm trying to gather info on how to calibrate the tv later when i've reached say, 100h of playing break-in images.

Do I really need to purchase the calibration tools like mentioned by TS in the 1st page or can I just play certain images with series of colors like how to calibrate a PC monitor?

Your reply is very much appreciated, cheers
*
To do a proper calibration you need tools. Those images you're talking about won't get you very far - same case with PC monitor. Don't imagine those images will allow you to calibrate the monitor properly.

But what is more important is whether your plasma TV itself has enough controls for you to adjust the image. If your TV only has basic controls, then you can only do basic adjustments and you won't be able to do a full calibration (no matter what tools you have).
Keng
post Oct 31 2011, 06:18 PM

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Thanks for the reply, that pretty much answer what I want to know.

Hmm, so I guess that brings me to another question, which method is more economical for calibration, 1) to get someone to do it or 2) to purchase the kit to DIY calibration?

I assume the latter method is for someone who wants to learn to calibrate themselves & probably gonna need to reuse the kit for 2nd, or 3rd or etc times which would then be more cost efficient, yes?

How much will the damage be to get someone to calibrate it? Will I still need to calibrate it later, as in when the tv (plasma) ages?
pierreye
post Nov 1 2011, 07:30 AM

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The problem with DIY kit is there is no gurantee a colorimeter will be accurate unless you can profile against a spectrometer. If you have few displays and had the time and money to invest in DIY calibration, then in the long run it would be economical.

But if you don't want to spend time to study on calibration then I would get someone with the skill and equipment to do it. You know who to contact, right?
jchong
post Nov 1 2011, 04:58 PM

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QUOTE(Keng @ Oct 31 2011, 06:18 PM)
Thanks for the reply, that pretty much answer what I want to know.

Hmm, so I guess that brings me to another question, which method is more economical for calibration, 1) to get someone to do it or 2) to purchase the kit to DIY calibration?

I assume the latter method is for someone who wants to learn to calibrate themselves & probably gonna need to reuse the kit for 2nd, or 3rd or etc times which would then be more cost efficient, yes?

How much will the damage be to get someone to calibrate it? Will I still need to calibrate it later, as in when the tv (plasma) ages?
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If you want to DIY, even the cheapest kit is about US$286 shipped to Malaysia. This is having the most basic meter. More expensive kits can go up into the thousands. Then you have to factor in the learning curve.

Having a pro to do it is a few hundred RM, I think. The pro will have much better tools, plus the knowledge to do a proper job. U have to decide which is more feasible for you. Thankfully at least we now have a pro in Malaysia.

If you have a new TV, normally you'll be asked to wait until it has a bit of use first (until it stabilises).
Docan
post Nov 2 2011, 11:57 AM

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Get a pro keng. Not so Mah Farm. Anfieldude did a great job on my projector and TV.Finally got the "wow" factor.
Keng
post Nov 2 2011, 11:59 AM

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QUOTE(pierreye @ Nov 1 2011, 07:30 AM)
The problem with DIY kit is there is no gurantee a colorimeter will be accurate unless you can profile against a spectrometer. If you have few displays and had the time and money to invest in DIY calibration, then in the long run it would be economical.

But if you don't want to spend time to study on calibration then I would get someone with the skill and equipment to do it. You know who to contact, right?
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Thanks, yeah, I know EXACTLY who to call rolleyes.gif
hellmazta
post Nov 2 2011, 01:45 PM

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hi bro, i was wondering, how much would it cos to calibrate a VT30 65 inch?
TSanfieldude
post Nov 2 2011, 03:25 PM

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QUOTE(hellmazta @ Nov 2 2011, 01:45 PM)
hi bro, i was wondering, how much would it cos to calibrate a VT30 65 inch?
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Pls PM me for calibration requests. I would like to talk about the technical aspects on this thread so that it does not violate forum rules.
johnbluraylover
post Nov 22 2011, 12:27 PM

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QUOTE(anfieldude @ Nov 2 2011, 04:25 PM)
Pls PM me for calibration requests. I would like to talk about the technical aspects on this thread so that it does not violate forum rules.
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HI BRO, IS PROJECTOR SCREEN THAT IMPORTANT?

last weekend i went to HI-FI CHOICE & watched AVATAR, they use OPTOMA HD20 but the pic quality is wow, i went home & play it with my OPTOMA HD86, but the color is not as deep as HIFI CHOICE. i notice they are using a very expensive screen, cost above RM10k. hmm.gif

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