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 REIT V2, Real Estate Investment Trust

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TScherroy
post Sep 4 2010, 02:22 PM

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QUOTE(teehk_tee @ Sep 4 2010, 01:59 PM)
i think the trailing dpu/dps was something like 9+ % , which is really very attractive. not sure whether the recent earnings have factored in the selayang mall rentals or not, but like jordy said, 7.25% on the back of 9+% means an automatic dilution of yield.

if they aggressively expand, earnings will rise, but depending on the tools they use to expand and the various costs, dpu probably will still increase even with new acquisitions. so yield is sustainable depending on the tools they use. i think the more they fund by borrowings and loans, the more beneficial to minority shareholders smile.gif
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Not exactly 100% dilution on 9% with 7.25%.
As some are funded through borrowing aka leverage which rate won't be more than 6%, so you gain extra 1-2% through leverage.

The more the acquisition funded through borrowing, the more yield the reit can achieve, as long as the properties yield > borrowing cost.

Yes, the more the borrowing, the more the yield that can be achieved.
But recent financial crisis has give a good lesson. Once you cannot refinance the borrowing, the whole reit can collapse due to excessive debt.
So over leverage can be dangerous as well.
TScherroy
post Sep 4 2010, 05:48 PM

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QUOTE(whizzer @ Sep 4 2010, 05:05 PM)
Is this like buying a house for investment purpose?  i.e. If you manage to rent out the house higher than the amount that you have to payback, you are actually gaining the difference.
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Exactly.
Just like your tenants are paying for your housing loan.

That's why more borrowing or leverage will drive up the reit income.
If you go to overseas reit, there are some reit (before financial crisis) are running extra-ordinary leverage, at good time, seems very good, but bad time, can bring down the whole reit.
TScherroy
post Sep 6 2010, 06:10 PM

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QUOTE(yok70 @ Sep 6 2010, 06:07 PM)
you think so? it can go down to 0.83-0.85?
but i was thinking, when looking at cmmt and sunreit, which both give low yield around 6.x-7.x% for current price, still able to keep their price stable if not even moving up further. I mean, after arreit increases capital, this alone seems to attract more investors.  hmm.gif
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you need some major correct, major issue around to send price going down, like downgrade of properties sector due to abc measures, fund major liquidation or specific reit issue etc. otherwise with low interest rate environment and BNM is expected pause the OPR hike, it is unlikely, we see major movement in reit price.
TScherroy
post Sep 6 2010, 11:38 PM

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QUOTE(teehk_tee @ Sep 6 2010, 07:29 PM)
hmm.gif i was under the impression that m-reits were very much affected by yield? except for CMMT and Sunreit which i think is because of institutional investors. thanks for clarifying icon_rolleyes.gif


Added on September 6, 2010, 7:31 pm
i think current rise is just overreaction. my opinion is that its unlikely to remain above 88 for the remaining financial year. if im wrong then can't accummulate at 85 d cry.gif
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There are more and more people are starting to aware of reit especially after years good proven record of consistent yield.
While a lot of instituitional investors and fund managers are struggling to find good yield stocks or investment around, so for the like of Sunreit and CMMT, there are plenty of interest from them.
We had seen many insurance funds, dividend funds are very keen on reit lately especially through private placement, and during IPO.


QUOTE(Jordy @ Sep 6 2010, 07:45 PM)
AXREIT seems to be a tool for speculation now. Suddenly 1 lot traded for 2.15 during the first half, which boosted the price to 2.15. At this price, the yield at 7.44% seems to be pricey now. Is there going to be some good news coming out from AXREIT? hmm.gif
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This is not speculation, this is making fun out of it. biggrin.gif

TScherroy
post Sep 7 2010, 12:10 AM

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QUOTE(whizzer @ Sep 7 2010, 12:06 AM)
Great to know that there are people out there who are willing to sacrifice for the benefit of making my REIT portfolio look good  tongue.gif
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He or she may also have the same intention, to look good on paper.

He/she can hold a couple of million shares, buying 1 lot at 2.15 which cost Rm220, can make the portfolio worth rise a few ten k more, and may be base on performance, and fund managers may get bonuses because exceeding the performance benchmark.
So the Rm220 is well spent and worth every penny. whistling.gif laugh.gif
TScherroy
post Sep 13 2010, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(yok70 @ Sep 11 2010, 02:41 AM)
Before BI:
par value: 1.00
share issued: 10 million
share price: 3.00
market cap: 30 million
eps: 0.10
cash: 15 million

After BI of 1 on 1:
par value: 1.00
share issued: 20 million
share price: 1.50
market cap: 30 million
eps: 0.05
cash: 15 million - 10 million (the increase shares) * 1.00 (par value of 1.00) = 5 million.
Is the above correct? Especially the cash part.  laugh.gif

Another question is,
If X = share issued * share price,
what do we call this X?

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Incorrect.
BI won't decrease the cash, there is still same 15mil cash in the bank.

You only can issue BI when you have sufficient shareholder fund, aka retained profit or from share premium account. (share premium account arised from when you IPO time, let say your IPO price is Rm1.50, but you par value is Rm1, so you have RM0.50 registered into share premium account)

Company NTA = Company shareholder fund = Paid up capital + share premium account + retained profit.

So when you issued BI time, you deduct the retained profit or transfer the retain profit part become paid up capital only.

X = Market cap.

TScherroy
post Sep 13 2010, 03:55 PM

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QUOTE(yok70 @ Sep 13 2010, 02:15 PM)
Please allow me for further exploration on this.
1. So BI's expenses derive from retained profit, the same case as when offering cash dividend?
2. When BI time, the company need to pay for per par value(1.00 in my example) or market value(1.50 in my example)?
3. In Balance Sheet, the retained profit does not sit under Cash column?
4. When a company IPO, is it possible that not all shares were purchased by investors? If that happened, what will happened to the rest of the shares?
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Since it has nothing to do with reit, I post comment at here. http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...620&p=36274512&
TScherroy
post Sep 16 2010, 10:41 AM

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QUOTE(protonw @ Sep 15 2010, 10:24 PM)
Any one of you here received your Q-Capita divvy with payment date of 30 Aug?  I have not received mine...  blink.gif
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Received already.


Added on September 16, 2010, 10:44 amFor CMMT, I like it very much.
But 6.8% gross yield, somehow very difficult and little non-attractive, as we need to take the net yield as real yield.
Unless the witholding is scrapped in next month budget, which has been lobbying by reits industry for years (which I don't think have high chance), then 6.8% net yield seems attractive.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Sep 16 2010, 10:44 AM
TScherroy
post Sep 16 2010, 11:27 AM

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QUOTE(whizzer @ Sep 16 2010, 11:23 AM)
IMHO, I think another plus for stocks like CMMT/SUNREIT would be its comparatively higher trade volume because of their size. Means that if one want a more liquid REIT don't mind sacrificing the net yield, these are the ones to go for.
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Stareit also is another one has high liqudiity, a forgotten reit recently.
TScherroy
post Sep 16 2010, 11:38 AM

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QUOTE(smartly @ Sep 16 2010, 11:29 AM)
mind to ask the development of Stareit ?
has everything (RPT) completed ?
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Sale of Lot 10 and Starhill already completed.
Now we are waiting for new properties injection, which should be not later in this few months time.


TScherroy
post Sep 19 2010, 03:59 PM

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QUOTE(monkeyking @ Sep 18 2010, 09:51 PM)
whistling.gif  Any probability of the Malaysian Government giving tax reduction of 10% in the October 15th Budget?....what say you all!! hmm.gif  Would you think that the Malaysian Government will let the REITS grow to catch up with the REITS market in SINGAPORE & Hong Kong? icon_rolleyes.gif Is our present BN Government is a good listener...I doubt so!! doh.gif
whistling.gif Fat hopes is the most probable reply.  drool.gif Yours too???? whistling.gif
wub.gif Cheers to all. wub.gif
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The main reason why witholding tax is still on, because if abolished, then a lot of company will set up reit company and sell all their properties/offices then lease it back. By doing this way, company can get a lot of tax incentive as well as gov lose both front of witholding tax + income tax. As rental income is considered as expenses that is tax deductible.
It opens up a way for company to save tax.

But this definitely + points for reit industry.

About Stareit issue,
Stareit this Q should be reporting dismay EPS due to newer properties not yet injected. So be prepared for poor result of this Q.

That's why Stareit market price generally depress compared most reit price has been surging lately.
But if the newer properties can provide good yield (which is not yet known), then at current price, it could provide some little opportunity.
It is one reit that with more than 20% in market price vs NAV.
TScherroy
post Sep 20 2010, 11:14 AM

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Good news for Atrium, DHL has renewed the lease expiring this month for another 4 years.
TScherroy
post Sep 22 2010, 12:00 AM

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QUOTE(zhi guo @ Sep 21 2010, 10:04 PM)
Thank you WagnerK. Does it mean if I sell AmFirst once I received the dividends and then buy similar reits that will give me another round annualised yield of about 20%+ (over a 2 month period), and I do it repeatedly, I can "actually" earn annual yields of about 20% on reit investments?

Thanks again.
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The calculation is not done in this way.
The annualised yield is a total meaningless figure to start with.

If like that, any person contra gain with 2% within a day, can claim they are earning 2% x 365 = 730% annualised gain, more powderful this figure than the 20% gain laugh.gif <---- got any meaning this kind of figure??

The actual situation is that you are getting around 4% yield.

And after the ex-dividend price will be adjusted down, and you might make a loss by selling it.
TScherroy
post Sep 22 2010, 12:19 AM

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For simplify version.
The actual situation is you put Rm1000 in it, then if everything as projected (no guarantee), then you are getting Rm70+, but on the same time, it doesn't mean the value of RM1000 remain the same, it can be higher or lower.


TScherroy
post Sep 29 2010, 04:54 AM

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QUOTE(monkeyking @ Sep 29 2010, 01:47 AM)
icon_rolleyes.gif I too bought quite a large number of STAREIT shares at around your price too [just recent pick plenty more at around 85 cents] for it's quite decent dividend. Maybe, YTL will inject the properties after the October 15th budget while hoping for the 10% tax reduction.  I am sure Francis Yeoh knows his STAREIT is not moving as I have read it somewhere that he did say something about STAREIT share prices are not moving even though it's NTA is high......presently it's NTA is this...
icon_rolleyes.gif The YTL stable of companies owns about 60 to 70% of STAREIT[ I don't know that actual figure though]........so dare I say YTL Francis Yeoh will take some concrete action. Maybe he will give higher rental for the incoming hotels that is going to be injected into STAREIT so as to give higher yield & thus move up the share price......well, just maybe only. whistling.gif Surely he has alot to gain by giving more rental to the hotels in STAREIT because what he gets from STAREIT will go back to the YTL group of companies......just remember this...
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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This is not new, has been highlighet the advantage of reit, and why witholding tax of 10% has little chance to abolish all together. Because there will be a lot of tax incentive for big company to set aside a reit and rent all their offices/factories through reit set up.

If abolish, reit industry definitely will be mushrooming and a positive development for reit.

I believe, there will be fist batch of properties consist of several hotels being injected in one shot, rather one by one. Just my pure guess.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Sep 29 2010, 05:00 AM
TScherroy
post Sep 29 2010, 05:03 AM

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I am anticipating some drop in share price due to potential poor 3rd result which DPU might be significant lower than normal, due to loss of income by Starhill and Lot 10, which could present opportunity to buy a lower price before the newly properties injection.
But it could be done at the same time as well.
TScherroy
post Sep 29 2010, 10:12 AM

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QUOTE(zhi guo @ Sep 29 2010, 09:33 AM)
I noted that some reits with higher PE ratios also have higher dividend yields than those with lower PEs. Example (data from The Malaysian Reserve of 24 Sept 2010.)
Reit "X": PE-9.5; Gross Dividend yield-8.10
Reit "Y": PE-6.8; Gross Dividend yield-8.0
Based on general views that lower PEs are generally "preferred" by investors, does this view also applies to investment in reits?
Advice much appreciated.
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PE is actually is identical with dividend yield in reit situation.

PE = Profit/share price (operational profit)
Dividend yield = 90-100% of profit/share price

So just look at dividend yield is good enough because reit is under at least 90% profit distribution.
While PE, must bare in mind, property valuation surplus is including in the profit figure, so it could give you the wrong impression.

So in your case comparison, it could be the case. There is no such thing of higher PE gives higher dividend yield.
TScherroy
post Oct 6 2010, 03:12 PM

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QUOTE(ihatework @ Oct 6 2010, 11:44 AM)
hi all,
im a beginner in REITs, wanting to make my first purchase
my question is: how do I pick which REIT is right for me?
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This question is just like
which girl should I pick for my future wife.

Nobody know except you.
TScherroy
post Oct 6 2010, 04:01 PM

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QUOTE(jasontoh @ Oct 6 2010, 03:48 PM)
Sometimes, I wish someone can pick a girl as my future wife so that I will not be in dilemma in choosing  sweat.gif
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Never mind I choose her from you to become mine. laugh.gif
TScherroy
post Oct 8 2010, 04:57 PM

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QUOTE(JinXXX @ Oct 8 2010, 04:29 PM)
any new interesting reit gonna be listed ?
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Midvalley reit (or IGB reit), which previously being proposed, but until now become no news.

If this month budget announces abolish of witholding tax, I can assure many reit will be queueing to list.
But my personal view, very unlikely.

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