I would appreciate if you can let me know at which point in this thread was I sharing ghost stories? Thanks.

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note: the terminology may be less than correct cos I don't have a scientific background.

Is it true that classical mechanics or the so-called Newtonian physics breaks down at the atomic and sub-atomic levels ie to say when we go into Quantum physics. This proof of ghosts that is demanded may have to do with physical properties such as light (a picture of a ghost captured on film or digital format), temperature (detection of temperature differentials at the onset of the appearance of apparitions), sound, magnetic waves, electrical phenomena, electro motive forces etc. All these forces of course can be measured with scientific instruments or even ordinary digicams. But what if ghosts are not in the realm of Newtonian physics? What if ghosts are at the atomic or sub-atomic level ie Quantum physics. Wouldn't that mean that it is physically impossible for ordinary scientific instruments to detect ghosts? A very simple analogy would be to try and measure the flow of electrons with a barometer! The instrument is just not up to the task. Maybe at our present level of technology we just don't have the requisite instruments to detect and quantify this phenomenon called ghosts which explains why asking for scientific evidence of ghosts is a moot question.

This post has been edited by wongpeter: Oct 1 2010, 12:38 AM

now then......what are the effects caused by ghost? is there any ? there are many assumptions no doubt..... what is important is the process of verification of them.....
if it has any effect on the physical realm then we can measure them....

When we are still speculating that the existence of ghosts may not be verifiable by present day technology how can we even begin to talk about their causality in the physical realm?

I am of the opinion that the human being by himself is a far more advanced and sensitive 'instrument' than any known scientific instrument available today. So whilst some of us can attest to the existence of ghosts there can be no tangible proof by way of say photos, instrument readouts, graphs and measurements, physical manifestations etc that ghosts actually exists.

Sorry, but when it comes to this animals beat humans.

is a human not in the physical realm?
so anything felt by the human IS measurable.

pls update urself with current technology, theres a bing bang machine (CERN Collider) where it can sense even sub-atomic quack where previously is just a theory... ur theory on ghost as sub-atomic level are flaws without even theoretical reasoning... how ghost is sub-atomic? if ghost is electron, i just use an earthed iron rod would eliminated them.. if ghost is form of energy wave, a simple hand phone call(micro wave) would destroy them ...

My posting is not about 'my theory on ghosts'. It was basically that I don't know what ghosts are and that instruments at the present level of technology probably cannot detect or prove their existence.

"ur theory on ghost as sub-atomic level' - Don't take what I say out of context. If I did say that you are more than welcomed to quote me. I had meant that ghosts are probably beyond Newtonian physics, maybe even beyond Quantum physics.

"if ghost is electron"
- I did not say that ghost is electron.
"if ghost is form of energy wave"
- I did not say that ghost is energy wave.
My whole argument is that the so-called proof of ghosts has to do with detection by instruments in the realm of Newtonian physics, and since ghosts may be beyond the realm of Newtonian physics it is therefore beyond detection at this point in time. Beyond the realm of Newtonian physics could even mean surpassing present limits of knowledge ie Quantum physics. I don't see how having read my posting, you can jump to the conclusion that I said that:
1. ghost are on a sub-atomic level
2. ghost is form of energy wave
when in effect I am saying something quite to the contrary. Pls update yourself in the English department.

"pls update urself with current technology, theres a bing bang machine (CERN Collider) where it can sense even sub-atomic quack where previously is just a theory"
- If you want to indulge in rhetoric then let me ask you this, has there been any experiments done to prove the existence of ghosts with this CERN Collider? If not, I fail to see the relevancy of your bringing this CERN Collider into your argument unless you are suggesting I run some tests with this CERN Collider to prove the existence of ghosts.

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Added on October 1, 2010, 2:26 pm"so anything felt by the human IS measurable."
- So there an instrument to measure or quantify the emotions like love or grief?

This post has been edited by wongpeter: Oct 1 2010, 02:28 PM

You should have a look at the advances made in the neurology field.

r u guys showing off how much u know about ghost and electrons ? lol... update yourself with new technology, this and that, bla bla bla....

anyway, yea I don't believe in ghost or god until I see one and feel one. all this just made up by humans.

Yes I do believe that the brain (mind) has a lot to do with the perception of ghosts. In certain Tibetan meditational practices the meditator summons up demons & ghosts to let them feed on his body. This is symbolic of eating away undesirable personality aspects, traits and emotions such as ego, pride, fear, hate, jealousy etc. Somehow there is the realization that such demons and ghosts are not external but rather from within the personality itself.

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Added on October 1, 2010, 6:45 pm"anyway, yea I don't believe in ghost or god until I see one and feel one. all this just made up by humans."
- wow your post is really deep & profound! I think I will have to read it many times b4 I can begin to understand what you are trying to say!

This post has been edited by wongpeter: Oct 1 2010, 06:55 PM

yes there is.
when the unknown becomes know where will the ghost be hiding next? maybe in the subsubsubsub of particles?

This post has been edited by slimey: Oct 1 2010, 09:10 PM

it is a super natural phenomenal

it is a idiopathic phenomenal............maybe not?

oops! I made a typo. It should read: "So is there an instrument to measure or quantify the emotions like love or grief?"

yes.. with MRI or CAT scan u can measure intensity of emotion,.. with blood test u can accurately measure the contain of Oxytocin, dophamine, cortisol, GH, norepinephrine and others hormone that responsible for our emotion... u clearly lack of scientific knowledge.......



on first 2 bold statement, u r saying ghost phenomena might be atomic or sub-atomic level, and stating Quantum physics as a possible explanation for ghost.... no?

so Quantum physics for every matter consist:
1)form of combination of sub-atomic particle.. i.e.. electron, proton, neutron, quarks, anti matter... where electron is the only free moving particle..
2)form of wave.. frequency depend on particle matter
3)form of energy..

no?

ur 3rd statement saying we don't have technology yet to detect this ghost phenomena b'cos of quantum physics?.. no?
CERN Collider is made by scientist for purposed to observe quantum effect of quantum phenomena.. since we got the technology to sense and record particle from quark to anti-matter.. we do have the technology to prove whether if ghost is on quantum theory or not... if u willing to fund(billions) this project to prove ghost existence, u r most welcome...

seems like every supernatural phenomena is using quantum theory as excuse for existence without knowing what is the link or how it explain it... is this a trend?

This post has been edited by randyhow: Oct 2 2010, 03:02 PM

To me ghost is an apparition from another dimension.

This post has been edited by DarkNite: Oct 2 2010, 03:38 PM

"u clearly lack of scientific knowledge......."
very early on in my postings I already made it known that I don't have a scientific background but seeing as this topic was about ghosts I didn't think it was a very scientific subject.

"first 2 bold statement"
- It was a question and not a statement of fact, when I said "What if ghosts are at the atomic or sub-atomic level ie Quantum physics." (I had inadvertently left out the question mark, but I think it is still reasonable to read that as a question and not a statement.) Is Quantum physics at the very limits of scientific knowledge? I think not.

"ur 3rd statement saying we don't have technology yet to detect this ghost phenomena"
- I said "Maybe at our present level of technology we just don't have the requisite instruments to detect and quantify this phenomenon called ghosts". 'Present level of technology' could be taken to be inclusive of your CERN Collider unless that is some form of alien technology. If i recall correctly, you were the one who brought this CERN Collider into your argument and yet you ask if I have the billions to fund this project?!! I do not know what your scientific background is but u clearly lack of logic and reasoning in your convoluted arguments!

Getting back to the topic proper which is 'Do you believe in GHOSTS?' I would have to say that at least in my case, there is insufficient data for me to say unequivocally that I don't believe in GHOSTS! And that is not the same as saying I believe in ghosts. I am just comfortable to be a fence sitter and if your CERN Collider has incontrovertible proof that ghosts do not exist then more power to you!


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This post has been edited by wongpeter: Oct 3 2010, 07:35 PM

I have that hunch too...

BTW, scienctist also hypothesise that the other dimensions that you and I take into account exist just as now.... their distance is nto very far apart and infact near to unseperatable... as close as super minute niche with the distance of atomic scale

the truth is out there, i rather believe than not believing the existing of it

i got 2 question to u:

1) why u upset of me not agreeing the theory of ghost to quantum physics?

2) since i'm not agreeing to the theory of ghost to quantum physics, why the burden of proof is on me? i brought out CERN Collider to point out our technological advancement had achieve the level of observing quantum phenomena(even create mini big bang), to disagree with u that we don't have the technology to do it, or did i say it too technically u couldn't understand?....

maybe i should remake my point:

You Are Wrong

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Added on October 11, 2010, 12:22 amlol.. parallel universe theory... ya... in theory and calculation there's might be a parallel universe... but to explain ghost phenomena with this , will be too naive...

point 1) u need tremendous amount of energy to tear open the cosmic fabric, like a black hole or worm hole(ring around black hole)... if the ghost is from another dimension, it's transition in between 2 world, would already have destroy both world, i don't think the ghost would in anyway survive for u to be seen...

point 2) if ghost is from other dimension, then it is not from our world... then it is not undead of somebody on our dimension.. then it is not ghost anymore... rite?

This post has been edited by randyhow: Oct 11 2010, 12:22 AM