Good with feathers all over the floor?!

Bro Next Gen, U are stating the obvious and preaching to the converted leh regarding not trusting agents .

However, i can't really agree with U that:
a. We can't see the last performance of the fund - as an indicator. Given statistically, Fund A's 10, 5 & 3 yrs CAGR = 10%pa VS Fund B's 6%pa with near similar Sharpe Ratio & Standard Deviation for all those years ending now, which would U put $ on?

b. New fund being better.
Dude, which probabilities and statistics are U basing this INFORMATION from? Can share?

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Added on June 10, 2011, 10:08 pmHJebat, the thing i found out was regarding WHY these Sales Agents were running away from PM to ING lar - that their PCSF customers are after their butts.
Hhehe - no "trading" or "investing" secret

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jun 10 2011, 10:08 PM

Next Gen, when Did PIttikal start ar? 10th April 1997, in the year when SHTF of 1997 & 1998.
Thus, they started buying / filling in the fund with stocks during THOSE years.
THUS they bought cheap, it wasnt the strategy OR the management of the fund that was good, it was luck.
+Like what bro Mois pointed out, Pittikal ALSO dropped nearly -40% during 2008 crisis though.
+FYI from 10th April 1997 to 9th Mar 1998 (1yr), PIttikal dropped 6.3%+. If i took later dates into 1998 before it stablized, PIttikal even hit 8%+ drop

Please note that i'm not saying PIttikal isn't a bad fund, i'm just stating i dont agree with "new funds" being better based on your reasoning. If U have other statistics to prove your point, please share them yar - i may have missed something . My apologies if i seem to be statistical and numerical driven - "i feel, i think" without evidence doesnt fill my curiosity and continuous search (the hunt for knowledge continues...). I'm anal that way

BTW, PIttikal is, IMHO, an average-y fund - look at it's 10yrs, 5yrs, 3yrs and 1yr stats for years ending 2007, 2008, 2009 & 2010.

Eh, U think a listed company means it's a great company? Transmile, MClean, etc. - ring any bells (of horrors)?

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Added on June 11, 2011, 7:31 amHJebat, yup yup - exactly my point, we wont know for a new fund AND some agents keep BSing us that it's new and cheap
If the fund's portfolio fits our needs AND it has relatively good history, i'd be more confident.

Yeah yeah - past performance does not blah blah future performance. I wonder if that's the case, then how do we hire new staff and also trust good old friends that has a good history... . History may not be 100% accurate as a future indicator, but it sure as heck beats jumping in blind

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jun 11 2011, 07:31 AM

Dude, 400 clients or cows to be milked?
All i hear are excuses - if an agent has 400 cows, i mean clients, U'd think he can afford to hire help / assistants right? It is a business right?

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jun 11 2011, 12:18 PM

Yes U can.

eg. U have PAGF with Agent 1, PAGF a/c number 10001 + PAGF with Agent2 10002

When U switch to PBOND for both, you will be having 2 PBONDs, 1 with Agent1 say a/c 20001, 1 with Agent2 say a/c 20002.

and when U switch again back to Equity, A/C20001 goes back to A/C10001, and A/C20002 to A/C10002 (assuming U switch back to PAGF lar)


Now if U think the above is , factor in that EVEN if same fund + same agent and 1 via EPF, 1 via cash, U get 2 accounts as well!

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jun 11 2011, 04:25 PM

HJebat, heheh - unsure whether most of PM's funds consist of those counters or not.

Sorry ar, my bad - when i mentioned "Fund's portfolio", i meant how the fund is going to be invested, eg. dividend stocks, index stocks, sector rotation, far east or China only, big / small caps, etc.

Yr idea sounds like "follow the leader" 'ala see how Buffet invest and just shadow the fellow right? That's an option heheh - i'd rather go with my own reasoning & logic though, for direct investments. At least i've my own "entry/exit plans", what i term as my biz plan, for each transaction or program, no one else to blame except myself (plus can learn)

FYI - i mostly use EPF a/c1 to do mutual funds (PAGF & PSSF).
For cash (only a small % of my total assets), i specifically go for PFES, PRSEC & PFEPRF - foreign and not country specific. Chicken lar

The rest of my cash is directly in stocks, REITs, bonds & properties ( like as if i have many properties pulak).

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Added on June 11, 2011, 4:50 pmEach Agent can "see" only your accounts serviced / leeched (depending on whether theyve yr best interest or moo moo) by them only, thus can print their own views only This is, i think, a matter of privacy for the customer where agent MYOB.

Go register for Public Mutual Online - U get a holistic / all in one view

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jun 11 2011, 05:06 PM

Bwhahaha - i understand your pain. I was cheesed off too when i PERSONALLY and PHYSICALLY had to go and do it. But once then, great access to data & info for the funds i have, sometimes even FASTER than the data the agents get leh. Think of it like EPF online a/c lor - do it once, and be done with it

Bro Bonescythe - me smells kam sau Agent lurking around giving "information" and also trying to "manage expectations" leh. A sane customer will always want some updates / information / advice from their Agent, rather justifying "kalau ada 400 clients, how to update".
Just a hunch

If i'm mistaken, my apologies for my lousy sense of smell & imagination yar

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jun 11 2011, 08:08 PM

HJebat, i wish i am rich - perhaps richer than the church mouse but not by much

And no, i've NOT conquered almost everything i can get my hands on - conquered to me = able to teach and reason the stuff out to either my mum (70yrs old) or my girl (5 yrs old) If they cant understand, that means theres still "something not quite right" yet with my methodologies & reasonings.

Yup yup, playing strictly lemming (follow the leader) is, IMHO, offloading the responsibility to others instead of stepping up for oneself. If no responsibility, then mana boleh "make it better" & grow?


Gold & Silver
I was not early enough to learn the basics - interested in Gold & Silver, yes in 2008, learned enough during then no - thus, normal chicken-style, stayed out until i know more.

Now know a bit of basics, thus staying out as investing in currency / money equivalent and/or commodities DIRECTLY is not my cuppa yet.
BTW, i am investing in commodities via my "agent investment" at NAV, i find it fits a niche and for such a small amount, it's just a hedge


PAGF & PSSF via EPF reasoning:
PAGF
+ highly aggressive, thus a diversified approach better IMHO
+ smallcaps aint my forte in direct investments, thus leverage on PAGF
+ can hold up to 30% of foreign equities (PAGF was just "allowed" into the EPF scheme late last year or early this - i'm cant recall off-hand)

PSSF
+ sector rotation / sectoral , other than asset allocation, i've read somewhere (let me dig it up if U want to see see, like the value averaging thing), statistically makes a good return
+ again, this approach (sector rotation) is highly aggressive + i'm no expert in such an approach, thus diversified approach better IMHO

So far, my PER TRANSACTION gains from PSSF & PAGF outstrips PIX, thus i cut PIX and channeled the $ to PAGF

BTW, your mileage may vary - im using Value averaging (thus i want volatility) + im my own agent (kam sau to myself ) thus, my cost is lower + i have some stats that makes it personally attractive to me (due to my own donkey approach).


Bro / sis - if U think PIttikal is your cuppa, go for it. If U "was-was", then dont.
U do know how much U are making / losing up to now in %pa for your investment into PIttikal right? If U dont, pls go poke yr agent for the info. Remember, get the net profit/loss %pa or CAGR, not the donkey GROSS profit/loss.

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jun 12 2011, 10:08 AM

I think the best mindset would be "Any $ put into investments must be $ unneeded for >=5yrs". Thus, no urgency

Mois, my momma says if we play with fire...
If we need that lump sum of cash within 1 yr or worse, in a few months' time, AND we gungho threw it into an Equity mutual fund, i bet U statistically that person will be BURNT. I dont want to bet against statistical probabilities

Of course, unless they have a crystal ball OR the market has fallen 40% or more (less risky, but still time-risk to "return to mean" is there VS need to use that $ in several months) lar

In short, yes.

In details, pls refer to http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1299169/+1591

Heheh - U want to claim income tax rebate from dividends of Public Mutual funds?

I thought the single-tier tax on dividends that stocks payout (thus to PM holding the stocks, and thus to U) are already taxed at Company level and public cant get back that $ even though their tax rate is lower.

My bad if U are talking about bond funds. Itu binatang lain, no idea on tax schemes.

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jun 17 2011, 12:53 PM

1. Pick an agent as yr upline, preferably one who can teach U + have the time to guide/help U until U are good on yr own.
2. Sign-up for CUTE exam - pay $
3. Study - sup sup water lar, trust me. U can walk out in 30 mins (minimum time needed to stay in the donkey computer room)
4. Go for exam
5. Pass & get yr credentials from FMUTM or something bwhahaha - sorry, i cant recall the new name
6. Tadaa

Yearly cost: $100+/-
PM's software/programs (optional): $90+/-

Guys, pls correct me where i'm mistaken - heheh, not much of a recruiter, more of DIY for my own + my family & friends' investment only

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jun 17 2011, 05:05 PM

approximately $250 i think the last i helped a friend sign-up. It's INCLUSIVE of the FMUTM membership + agent fees + exam fees

Dont lar teach "kam sau" technic bro BoneScythe

for Agent and FMUTM member fees

U forgot - and if the victim, oops i meant customer, is not "too aware", robbing them blind while making them feel good and hopeful for their future

And it made U smarter and fired U up to learn right?
Ok ok - stop poking that voodoo doll already

Hi mfa333.
1) If U ask any Sales agents, any time is a good time to start investing in PM
a. IMHO, best time is after a nice market crash OR when U have a working crystal ball if you're doing lump sum injection of $.

b. If you're injecting $ quarterly / periodically using Dollar Cost Averaging or better yet, Value Averaging, for at least 3 to 5 years, then anytime is nearly as good as any.


2) $5K and U want to take out by 3 years time max? Er.. IMHO, better stick with FD and Bond funds. In Equity funds / market, you'll never know how high is high, how low is low. Look at 1997 just as the currency crisis hit MY. It looked to have bottomed out and started moving up in early 1998 up to about 700 points +/- if my memory aint too foggy. However, in later part of 1998, the fall was even worse - KLCI 200+ points only.

Bottomline - IMHO, whatever U put into equity markets, ESPECIALLY ones that charges U 3% or 5.5% upfront (ie. U lose straight away that amount), U better be prepared for the long haul of 5 to 10 years.