Just found this Topic in LYN - never knew there were other techies like me are interested in investing (shock / horrors!) heheh.

I've been a Public Mutual investor (and other fund houses) for quite a while now - thus i'd thought i'd share some general interesting items - no, no secret sure win $ thing here.

1. Keep cost low to Break Even faster, thus higher probability to make more $ (apple to apple comparison lar, dont Equity to Bond comparison)
Public Mutual (or PM in short) charges 5.5% on Equity and Balanced Funds for Cash Investment.
However, they have to toe-the-line for EPF investment 3% shj. ;P
Now - if say PAGF (Public Aggressive Growth Fund) is available for purchase via EPF and Cash, i'd do EPF.

2. Always compare / ask for the returns % in PA or CAGR, not simple total
This makes it easier to compare against FD % or leaving in EPF % - all are in per annum compounded basis

3. Whenever an "Investment Agent" comes a calling,
Ask simple questions like:
a. What do you invest in?
b. Why?
c. What are your methods / entry & exit rules?
d. What are your average returns in each of these?
e. May i see your transactions?

If the Agent can't answer most of the above, U know U are speaking with a SALES AGENT, not an investment agent or investor, especially when they spew returns in SIMPLE returns, instead of Per Annum or CAGR.

Go with eyes open

Just to share some statistics as at 2011/05/11:
PSmallCap
10yrs CAGR: 17.9826%
10yrs Standard Deviation: 14.7851%

5yrs CAGR: 21.6982%
5yrs Standard Deviation: 17.5306%

3yrs CAGR: 16.4632%
3yrs Standard Deviation: 16.5145%

1yr CAGR: 25.3136%

Looking at the stats above that are more than 1 yr, even with the Standard Deviation swinging to +/- from the average, returns are near guaranteed to be more than 0% BASED ON HISTORY lar. Past track record is not a blah blah blah...


This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: May 12 2011, 01:49 PM

Hi CheahCW. I think as per any biz, PM Agents will negotiate with U if they are hungry enough.

Personally, i'm unsure (need to check my statements) whether Bond funds earn how much % of commission - i'm a PM Agent mainly to save cost and get access to the statistics for my family's investments since i've been investing in UTs / MFs since my 20s heheh. Painful lar the 5.5% (last time 6.5% to 8% pun ada, gila )

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: May 14 2011, 04:33 PM

Hi Im_Not_Stupid - how low is low, how high is high = personal judgement, risk appetite & entry/exit rules.

Personally, i'd consider NAV low enough to be of value to do BULK purchase (33% of my "value ammo") if the current NAV is about 30% to 40% lower than the 3 years' moving average. Non-agents will have problems getting historical data - talk with your PM Agent for the data. They can get it from "Financial Advisor" application (must be subscribed from PM).

If i was not privy to such access, i'd use do exactly what i'd recommend - ask my PM Agent for statistical data. They are getting the commission AND "career benefits" right, thus, help a customer out with data shouldn't be a prob. Mind U, i am a bit of a baka expecting service from sales agents, else i buta pay commission and management fees for nothing

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: May 15 2011, 11:05 AM

Hey Mois. I've posted the holistic view of my approach in Post #414 at http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1577849/+400 (it's a ZIP file with Excel & Power Point) in the PowerPoint file.

In summary, i use 2 methodologies for mutual funds:

1. Programmatic Methodology (no fear, no greed)
a. Plan
Based on my own Asset Allocation & Foreign/Local coverage, I'll filter for funds to start a "TwinVest" program (a DCA (25%) + VCA (75%) approach).
Example for EPF funded funds, I went with PIX then changed the program to PAGF as it can do up to 30% foreign stocks & PSSF
Example for cash funded funds, I went with PFES, PRSEC & PFEPRF

Then i'll calculate the amount of $ to ALLOCATE to this TwinVest program EVERY PERIOD.
Example: PAGF $5K every qtr. Note that 1 fund for 1 TwinVest program which i intend to run at least 3 years


b. Entry
Based on 1a plan, every 3 months, i punch the NAV of the fund into the program's spreadsheet to find how much $ to buy.
The spreadsheet will automatically advise to use at least 25% of the allocated per period + depending on the NAV, none or MORE THAN 75% of the allocated per period if there are unused capital from previous period.
U may need to download the ZIP file with the PowerPoint to "see" this easier - i've detailed out DCA vs TwinVest by per transaction basis.


c. Exits
I'll take profit by switching to a bond fund, the transaction COST + 10%pa of expected net profit, and leave the rest to run
IF a transaction hits more than 50% net profit within < 1yr
IF a transaction hits more than 25%pa net profit >= 1yr
For reasonings on why these two % - checkout the ZIP files with statistical data of 10yrs, 5yrs, 3yrs & 1yr performances ended 20110512, 20101231, 20091231, 20081231 & 20071231 posted somewhere in the fund corner http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/690951/+1180


2. Value Methodology
a. Entry
When the NAV of the funds i've filtered based on my own Asset Allocation & Foreign/Local coverage is <= 3yrs NAV * (56% to 66% dependent on the fund), I'll use up about 30% of my unused funds earmarked for Value Investing in Equities.

b. Exits
Similar to 1c


Hehhe - i hope U find the above useful and not . I may be a bit too detailed in my approach

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: May 18 2011, 11:01 AM

That's exactly why i took the dumb exam & became my best agent.
I tend to agree with Gark - in any circumstances, especially "advises", U have to take into account how the advisor makes their $.

Brokers dont care about U making $, they care about the volume of transactions.

Fund managers dont really care about us, they care about the benchmark AND whether their fund falls and rises approximately the same with the competitors (if all fall similarly, then can say act of God mar. if their fund goes up, then can take credit).

If U were a fund manager, would U rock the boat and do some heavy investing when stocks crashed?
They may crash further (see 1997 & 1998) PLUS huge funds have problems moving in /out of stocks + other hosts of issues like not being able to inject more than 10% of portfolio into 1 stock.

Thus, bottom line is WE the investors must manage our own $ & risk (agreeing with Gark).
DebbieYSS, as for the lower education & old timers, they can always ask their friends / relatives to help teach them. What i find is that MOST people, even so called "educated ones", doesn't bother. They just want to "outsource" the entire thing - can ar but dont jump & curse lar when bad things happen

Sorry to burst your bubble, PM agents dont get 5.5% leh hehe. PM itself makan x.x%

I'm unsure whether PM will come & kill me if i post the actuals here.

Oh, i'm just stating the agent's cut hehe. BTW, y do U think most agents dont propose bond funds? No commission leh

Yeah, i agree with U, most are just Sales Agents, thus, buyer beware.
U should see some of these fellows running from PM to ING during the 2007-2008 PM's PCSF fiasco. These sales agents promised 20%pa++ to customers and when kaka hits the fan (PCSF plunged), they changed mobile numbers, moved, etc. and joined another fund house. I saw these with my own little beady eyes - i'm in PM, went to ING's & Prudential's agent talks / recruitment too on invitation from friends in the industry. I gotta take my hat off to them - totally no conscience at all. It must be good being born without one

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: May 20 2011, 12:30 PM

JinXXX, if U invest at least $10K pa from your EPF OR about $6K cash to equity funds in PM, you'll more that recover your yearly agent cost + get access to historical data (NAVs) like those i posted. If U + family + close friends all combined, whoa... imagine the savings!

For details on commissions, yearly incentives and career benefits (for funds held by yr customers), please get in touch with the nearest Public Mutual agent recruiter. Sorry dearie - like i mentioned, i'm unsure whether PM will come after me if i reveal it here - i still intend to be my best agent/customer + i'm an investor at heart, not a recruiter/sales agent.

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: May 20 2011, 12:50 PM

Tell U a semi-secret. U may save a bunch (in terms of making a bunch) if U think in terms of 10 yrs +
Reason: PM gives x.xx% of an agent's portfolio (ie. customers' holding) of loaded funds every year. It may sound small but try and imagine 10 years / 20yrs of your investments' growth... AND your family's... AND your close friends'...

Yup yup - from FundSupermart right?

I wish Fund Houses were so interested in investors' well being VS. the chance to charge service & management fees

Heheh - i think Public Bond fund closed liao for new & additional buying. There's alternatives like Public Strategic Bond Fund OR if U don't mind other fund houses' bond funds (which has been beating Public Bond Fund ) - checkout AmDynamic Bond's 1yr, 3yrs, 5yrs stats.

DebbieYSS, if i may suggest, have a plan (my bad if i'm "mis-ass-u-me-ing" ) - dont go after the "best" performing funds only. Best for now may be worst for future years, case in point see the stats for Public SmallCap's 1yr, 3yrs, 5yrs performance ending 2008 vs end 2009 to end 2010.

Once you've a plan, U may want to target 2 or 3 funds which fits each Asset Allocation / Methodology / etc. Thus, if one fund is closed, continue your program with the 2ndry or 3rd choice fund for THAT Asset Allocation / Methodology / etc. The most important is once U get into the groove, U will see things differently AND see more options/opportunities.

In addition, a fund "closing" is usually not closed to customers' that sign-up for monthly auto-deductions - those don't stop. It's usually closed only to NEW accounts or bulk/adhoc purchases. Thus, DCA isn't THAT dumb in this sense (Dumb Cost Averaging? )

Oh, btw - as a PM agent, i can invest up to a specific amount per fund at NAV & monthly deduction from my commissions - so yes, i do DCA too (using this NAV offer) . For EPF & Cash invested mutual funds, i do programmatic "TwinVest" every qtr and Value buys when kaka hits the fan hard.

Just a crazy rat's 2 cents thoughts

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: May 22 2011, 07:55 PM

er.. the 1% charge is axed when it's held for more than 1 or 2 years if i'm not mistaken. I checked it out while helping a friend who just keeps FD and an unrented out property (some ppl have too much $ ) open an AMDYNAMIC BOND fund as i also read about the backload in AMBANK's online stuff. Please do check and get confirmation before jumping in yar.

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: May 22 2011, 08:38 PM

Ah, here it is http://www.ambg.com.my/ambank_webmedia/fil...ndFactSheet.pdf
"Entry Charge: Nil
Exit Fee: Up to 1.00% of the NAV per unit"

Now i remembered my Q to the branch Mgr SS2 on Sat - "Backload up to 1%?!"
Yup still, best to get it in writing what's the new thing now "Up to..."

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: May 22 2011, 08:53 PM

Hm.. Debbie, what were the reasons that the UT consultant advised U to invest in Public Dana Saving Fund and in lump sum, DCA or other methods?
Based on these, then perhaps i can help check whether good reasoning or not vs statistical data on Public Dana Saving Fund.

Hi Seiken. May i suggest U start your journey into investing by:
a. Learning about $ management & risk management first.
This will enable U to know your cash inflow and outflow, plan yr expenses, savings & investments + tell your $ where to go for best impact based on your personal goals and wants. These are the foundations that IMHO that are needed to proceed to the rest of the items
If you already know about these, skip to next step


b. Investment vehicles, general methods & peculiarities of each investment type and investment methods.
+Stocks (excluding REITs)
+Bonds
+Properties & REITs (Real Estate Investment Trusts)
+Commodities & metals

Mutual funds or Unit Trusts are invested in these vehicles. Thus, by learning about these vehicles, U will then know what each Mutual Fund's style are via their prospectus (eg. PSmallCap, PFES, PBOND, etc.) or the general types of mutual funds (Equity Funds, Bond Funds, Balanced Funds)
+ Mutual Funds' prospectus


c. Draw up a cohesive plan - big pix like Asset Allocation & details like which methodology to use (eg. DCA, Value Averaging, Lump Sum during crashes, etc).
With these, U'd then be able to select the best mutual funds which fits your goals and plan.


My apologies if you're looking for a "buy this & that bcoz..." kind of response. IMHO, investments and in particular, financial planning, is very very subjective and is heavily dependant on the personal goals, risk appetite & how hands-on or hands-off the investor wants.

U may want to check out http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1577849/+413 - i've put in a ZIPped file with a few Excel worksheets to help with the calculations + a general overview of Financial Planning. Please note that these are my own personal tools and views and shared as is - use at your own risk

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jun 3 2011, 12:03 PM

Seiken - it's good that U are not in a hurry . Some ppl are in such a hurry to "invest" that they fall into a "hole" willingly, instead of learning and preparing first - it's akin to ppl looking for the fire exit plan DURING a fire, instead of before a fire. Good luck and be persistent in your journey - it's a marathon, not a sprint

BTW, stock market - it doesn't take much time IF U are a long term trader OR a value investor and use certain approaches/methods. IMHO, short term flippers / traders are the ones having the need to be glued to the computers longer (i may be mistaken though).

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jun 3 2011, 01:16 PM

MNet, U have actually calculated the effective rate of returns pa of endowment plans, based on:
1. If U live to statistical age
2. If U live beyond statistical age by 20%
3. If U do live below statistical age by 20%
?

If so, please do share with us - i've ran some numbers several donkey years ago and it didnt make sense to plonk my $ into an endowment plan VS equities for a period of 10 to 20 years. Your updated data / statistics will help a lot for reviewing the possibilities. Thanks in advance.

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jun 4 2011, 08:54 PM

U forget the Yearly bonuses, Carrier benefits, Group Benefits, etc. leh
AND it's long term "lock in" of customers if the customers trust the Agents or just too lazy