Firstly, I did not know that I was representative of the general human population. Thank you for the ego boost. But then again, I wonder why so few share the same music and books taste as me. Hmm.

Secondly, you contradict yourself. If God is a delusion, where does that delusion come from, if not imagined up by humans? If it was conceived by humans, my previous argument remains. Unless you mean it is ok to be ignorant, and that we shouldn't understand how computers work either.

I think he means the One True God.

Excuse me, I thought this thread is to elaborate our personal interpretation of god instead of proving god's existence. Seems like science vs religion, I am hoping to read about how creative people can get, there is an old topic at Kopitiam about "Believer & Non Believer" that suits debate.

Not fun since we know it will never end and that the world is still at war because of religion and power. Do you guys expect a winner? If not then let the topic run wild.

Not to ferget, closed-minded people back off.

Im was thinking God not as Energy, but Gravity. Since Gravity governs all.

Again... you just don't get the point. Delusion is an illness. Where it comes from? Obviously from human. What point of arguments that you need to stand up for? Go ahead

Imagination is good when it leads to a positive development, but not when it turns into delusion.

You posted Human Condition article to me, yet do you understand what the article is trying to express?

It is not being ignorant. IT IS ABOUT BEING RATIONAL. Keep debating delusional matter like "GOD, who-how-why, defining" etc. shows that you are having the classic case of disillusion.

Again, I would express you are comparing delusion with a concrete fact and proven science. You will always do so, if you can't think rationally.

I don't think you even know what you are talking about anymore. By any chance are you a member of this Facebook group?

The Human Condition has nothing to do with rationality. (And I am against religion mainly because of it undermines rationality. So, me, irrational? Ha.) The Human Condition concerns mostly with human psychology. I don't know if you have read the page, but I can say you have very, very limited understanding of psychology. Try reading about Existentialism. It is a main subject in The Human Condition.

Humans don't create something out of the blue, for no reason, and without purpose. Even if they do, it wouldn't exist for long if it serves no purpose. So if humans created the notion of God, which you admitted so, then there must be a reason for it. THAT, is what I am interested in: Why humans created this so-called God?

How is that irrational? Or delusional? Are you saying all studies into humans are delusional?

Next thing. If believing in God is delusional, why is arguing that God does not exist delusional? Are you saying a psychiatrist is delusional for diagnosing a patient with dementia, and trying to treat said patient? When you witness a crime, do you report it, or ignore it?

Finally, you speak of rational, but you are against "comparing delusion with a concrete fact and proven science." Do you even know what rational means?

You ought to give more thought to your posts. It is difficult to take your posts seriously if it is filled with paradox and hypocrisies. Thinking is the main pillar of rationality. Think first, before you write.

Again, you continue to argue a delusion with the real thing. If you lost me, then I could not help you. I am not asking you to take me seriously.
Just a simple thoughts for yourself.

The basic point - if you read my post again and compare it to your posting of human condition, human psychology and existentialism is related to the way human not to think rationally. Human wants to compare, compare and compare even the subjects to compare are not compatible to each other, even for a reason that doesn't really make sense. They just want their explanations to be righteous and even want it to be the law.

The subject GOD can never be justified unless you are up to something. The atheismos are denying the existence because they want to prove the religulous people wrong and vice versa. IT is as simple as that.

Imagination is good when it leads to a positive development, but not when it turns into delusion. >> this is answer to you question "Why humans created this so-called God?"
Since when technology we know now is based on believing/disbelieving in GOD? From the world history, the only thing came out of religion/irreligion is war.

BTW it is being rational is the pillar of thinking, not the other way around. It is not totally about logic, but it is about something acceptable and of course most of the things that acceptable by our mind is logical. As long as the concrete reason to explain a question is acceptable and consistent, it is RATIONAL.

Did you get the acceptable and consistent reason behind this defining GOD question? It never had a consistent reason. Hence, it irrational to even discuss the rationality of defining GOD. It just bunch of mortals trying to sell their idea of invisible product called GOD. And you know what, it is very easy to sell and you bought it.

And since when I am against "comparing delusion with a concrete fact and proven science."? Delusional illness can be explained with science but you cannot compare how true a delusion is against scientific facts. >> Read what i posted again >> Again, I would express you are comparing delusion with a concrete fact and proven science.

Take mathematical equation for example.

3 + 1 = 4
4 + 0 = 4

The result for both equations is 4. The rational explanation is you can add any numbers in anyways as long as the result is the same.
Even the concept of real number is rational because it have the explanatiosn and the reasons why it is acceptable in math.

So does how a gun works, cancer can be cured and similar questions that you were comparing to this "defining GOD" and its related issue.

But how to define "GOD"? You'll get different results and different answers explaining the definitions. No one on each side will accept each other's answers. This is when the delusion begins when everyone thinks they are the right one. There will never be a unified answer of defining "GOD", cause one will say GOD doesn't exist (so, how to define it? it doesn't exist) and the other says it's a powerful force and so many other definitions for GOD. IT shows defining GOD never will be consistent and it has no acceptable reasoning for each answers. Isn't that what we called irrational?
When it is not rational, it means human are into the delusional state because he can't think rationally with his reasoning and explanations.



This post has been edited by dopodplaya: Jan 12 2010, 04:16 AM

Dopodplaya, if you think God is mere delusion, answer this:

We seem to be going around in circles here. I think the fault lies in your definition of delusion.



So, how do you define delusion?
If a man walked in to a psychiatrist office claiming he works for the secret service, everything else about him seems normal, how would you know if he is delusional?
Simple, call up secret service and ask for confirmation or ask him for prove of identity. Is that not using facts and evidence to prove a delusional case?
Since when you are against that? Well, I interpreted that sentence there to mean I am comparing them, and I should not. Plus, there again you just stated "you cannot compare how true a delusion is against scientific facts." So are you, or aren't you against it? You seem confused about your own stance. If you are a member of that Facebook group, do say so, so I'm not wasting my time.

FYI, science require evidence, not just anything that is acceptable. In fact, it is ALL ABOUT evidence. If not, it will only be a hypothesis. The generally accepted consensus is that God created the world in 6 days, and the earth is 10,000 years old. So is that what you believe? Since that is what majority thinks. Science disagree.

Acceptable is subjective. Facts are not.

Back to your first sentence, if we do not compare a delusion to a real thing, how do we know if it is a delusion?
Delusion (from Wikipedia): A delusion, in everyday language, is a fixed belief that is either false, fanciful, or derived from deception.
If Nike does not exist, there will be no fake Nikes. So how is something a delusion if it cannot be compared to something real?

In your second paragraph, are you suggesting that the study of existentialism and Human psychology is irrational? If you are, I would say you are seriously deluded. If not, I don't understand the paragraph, please rephrase.
Existentialism does not compare anything, neither does psychology. It attempts to explain several questions about humanity.

You seem to be against ignorance, yet you seem to think some questions should not be asked at all because there is no single definitive answer.


Yes, imagination, but why did they imagine up something like God. That is what I want to know. Good or bad, humans invented things for a reason. Good or bad happens after the conception of that idea. Nikola Tesla did not invent the AC motor for no reason, he saw its potential and knew it would be extremely useful.

As for asking if I have found a consistent answer, of course not, or I wouldn't be trying to understand it, would I?
There are however many suggestions as to why, and many seems very RATIONAL.
The most common one being humans need a sense of security, and believing there exist such a supernatural entity voids them of that insecurity. To me, that seems rational, what do you think? Another theory for The Bible's concept of Heaven and Hell is that it would help humans overcome one of their greatest fear: Death. You may say that this is another delusion, but death is not a delusion. Hence fear of death is no more a delusion than fear of being eaten alive by a lion.

I realise this thread is about "defining God", but from the start, I have stated, and I will state it again, I am not interested in the definition of God. I am interested in why so many humans embraced the notion of God. God's hair colour does not interest me (though it would be helpful for trivia night), but why so many people believe in God does. And stating they are merely delusional does not explain it, because there is a conscious or subconscious reason behind a delusion.



PS. You seem to have no understanding of psychology, and hence not what I am getting at. Please, please read something about it before replying to this post, or it will go back in circles. Here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoanalysis to start you off.

---

Added on January 13, 2010, 1:14 amAs some already suggested, emotions are a result of chemical and electrical stimulation in the brain. The exact mechanism is still unknown, as neuroscience is a relatively new field. Which scientist claimed emotion is a delusion? Emotion is an important part of our evolutionary survival.

Which leads to this, which is simple. Anger, love, happiness are all feelings, we acknowledge them to be feelings. God, is claimed by believers to be all powerful, omnipotent and omniscient. Is anger omnipotent? Are you so angry reading this post now your anger can kill catering with a thought? If believers claim God to be a feeling, then it would be a different argument. Can it be an emotion? Possibly. But then, what actions provoke this "God feeling"? I sure haven't heard anyone say "I feel Godly." Godlike maybe. Not Godly. There is no common consensus in any actions provoking a Godly feeling.

This post has been edited by thesupertramp: Jan 13 2010, 01:14 AM

The problem is, why do you even acknowledge the existence these of unquantifiable, intangible, absurdity you called as "feelings"?

What is this "feeling" you're talking about?

If, you wanted to prove to me that, this thing called "feelings" exist, how will you do that?


This post has been edited by Deadlocks: Jan 13 2010, 10:11 PM

my definition of god is... god is only human (or was if it passed away), but he/she/it can do what humans can't. That's if god is a human.

And also believe GOD was created for propoganda and was created by humans. Therefore GOD did not create humans but humans created GOD

Unfortunately, I have not met god and I gave a thought whether if God has the same form as a human. Maybe god has the form of a dinosaur!

Just my thought and do not wish to provoke any religion at all. I sincerely apologize if I have offended anyone in my post. Cheers

If you have not seen this, than its a must see.

Interesting thoughts from a young boy.

SOS

Ahaks...Come on...u fall for that too?

The boy uses the flawed reasoning of the professor and use it against him to proof the existance of God? Not good enough, try again, i would say to the vid maker.

---

Added on January 14, 2010, 4:41 pmIts easy to expose the flaw when someone claims that God exists. The existance claim itself is a flawed in reasoning. Dont have to go further to the real question really.

---

Added on January 14, 2010, 4:51 pmAs simple as looking at someones expression perhaps? Its all there to see.

This post has been edited by maranello55: Jan 14 2010, 04:51 PM

But just because an expression shows a certain shape with lines here and there, and all of a sudden "feelings" exists?

Is that even logical?

What does science have to say about this?

Why resort to complication when theres a simple indication of something?

If u see a crying mother, what else u need as a proof that she has a sad?

If u need it to be verified scientifically, u can MRI the brain activity during that and the pattern will match those who are in mourning, OR with existing database, one can tell whether one is faking it or not.

well lets c, if this planet has more than 2 moon or 2 suns, i can say almost all the religion will be void as everything is too dependent on it
e.g. if there's 2 suns, 1 rises from the north, another rises from the west

Yes. Certain emotions trigger activity in certain parts of the brain. And likewise, certain actions trigger certain emotions almost all the time. Feelings are not something random.

And epiphanies relating to God? Is that not a feeling as well?

Of course. But I can cry for Santa Claus wont make him real.

sometime people cry when they happy...

Apparently......im just stating one of the examples.