Whether God exists or not does not matter, what matters is why God exists.

Because who what why things are created, god is easier to call and understand, if nature is the creator, people in the past don't have the intelligence to describe it properly, even till now, many people don't understand what is system but they defend there is god.

If god does not exist, it does not matter why god exists.

religion is not a human made tool as some would think of. It's already planted as a way connecting humans and the other dimension. It can be hidden, or revealed to humanity. Whatever that I speak now is something acknowledged to me.

it's either the religion will serve as humans knowledge or didn't attract them.

How do you know its planted? You been to the other dimension? Whatever that you speak now is you own assumption, I like to advise you not to make a fool of yourself if you can't provide proper argument, this part of the forum is for people who know the limit and understand the difference not for people to say they believe.

Religion brings happiness and hope to those that are lost. Since there are many people that are lost, that i think religion should exist for this matter so that they can lead them back to sense.

BUT, religion fanatics is what i can't tolerate; spreading hate against homosexuality and suppressing women rights. I don't think i need to elaborate more on this.

For all i know, i love religious celebrations. It means holiday for all i would care.

P.S. Gay people do not choose to be a gay. They are born gay. This is what i learn from my Psychology studies. It's a proven fact. So hating them for being who they are is in fact sad and ugly.

P.S.S Pork, is tasty. I respect those who are forbidden to eat them, but in return i hope they respect those pork-eaters too. Don't call pork-eater names because the holybook says that pork is impure. Cow, chicken, goat...all of them has parasites living in them just like pigs too. So stop picking on the poor pigs.

With all due respect for your empathy towards humanity, I'm sorry but I have to say that the method is improper.

You don't make lost people lost further. People are lost due to lack of knowledge and information. I support all the humane values promoted by religions, but I stand strong against all the superstitious beliefs which are also promoted by religions. We must understand that religions are created thousands of years ago, back then people didn't have the tools to acquire proper knowledge and information, which caused insecurity of almost everything, but people were still primitive, and thus something has to be done to instill humane values in them. Religion is a mixture of both. Now that we have the tools to do more research into the origins of religions, we can properly differentiate what values of religions we can keep, and what values that are irrelevant (mostly fear-mongering, hence it causes people to subconsciously believe that fear-mongering towards other humans is something that is right to do and can be done, because religion does it).

This post has been edited by tzmmalaysia: Dec 14 2010, 12:07 PM

Which religion allow you to change it? Go do it then come back to tell us your success story.

So your logic is that if an establishment supports false information, even though people know about it, they should keep quiet and be obedient? Religion is big not because of the information it presents, but the amount of people that supports it, even though some of the information is not logic. By presenting factual information, more and more people will reject the superstitious part of religions. Atheists have been growing due to these information. However, there's also a problem with atheists because they reject religions blindly without consideration of humane values, and they don't respect religions. That's why a neutral and humane approach must be used on religions, for the benefit of everyone.

You are so wrong to speak for the atheist or religious with narrow assumptions. If you try, you might get yourself killed and die achieving nothing, no one is able to stop the war and your stupidity can?

As far as i agree, religion is a thing in the past. But i can't deny the fact that it is really effective is pulling people out of depression.
Unless and until science, knowledge and intelligence can replace it, i'll keep an blind eye over this.
Well, it's proven that religious terminal stage cancer patient is happier and more peaceful than non-religious ones.

What type of fact is this?
If u sure that this is the fact, do u have any facts or theory to support it?

Because u have forgotten people that was homosexual before and become normal once again, means they are not born as homosexual but became that after some event.

Again, how can u prove that?
U can say that religion bring hapiness and encourage positive thinking but u gotta look into how many patient with terminal illness in the past are not religious and they still rest in peace afterall

Reminder: If u gonna use "facts" or "prove" again later, pls make sure u provide source and theories as well

So because some people claim that they have become 'normal' it is evidence that homosexuality are not genetics? On the same note, I can then argue that because some who were heterosexual before and became homosexual means that they were not born heterosexual but became that after some event.

What type of fact is this? If you are sure that this is the fact, do you have any facts or theory to support it?
Reminder: If you are going to use "facts" or "prove" again later, please make sure you provide source and theories as well.

Note:
Look up Kinsey Scale or Kinsey Reports (1948). While not everything in there is fact and the numbers varies, the idea that few people are exclusively homosexual or heterosexual is an accepted fact. A later study by US's National Opinion Research Centre provided a more accurate/conservative figure, but the general idea of Kinsey's Reports are not challenged.

I have not heard religion can straighten a homo... person, which and how?

He is probably talking about those courses or camps that are done by some hard core Christians in US. An example is camps operated by Love In Action International Inc, which was operating in the US before it was closed in 2005 by a state Department of Mental Health for dispensing medication without license. Gay activists consider that the camps are tantamount to child abuse. A co-founder, John Evans later stated that the camps led to nothing but depression, shattered lives and even suicide.

SOS

In the same entry above, The American Psychological Association and the American Psychiatric Association strongly affirm that "homosexuality is not an illness", "does not require treatment" and "is not changeable." They feel that "gay men and lesbians who have accepted their sexual orientation positively are better adjusted than those who have not done so," and warn that people seeking conversion therapy may be doing so under pressure from religious groups.

Bold: Have u forgotten to quote that part of u purposely repeat what i said?

There is nothing much to argue if one cannot prove that people are born with homosexual genetics at the first place.

Plus, what is this entire homosexual genetics thingy have anything to do with religion thread?

If you wish to talk about proving sexual tendencies using genetics, kindly provide me with the link that says people are born with heterosexual genetics.

I accept the general idea of Kinsey's Reports, i.e. few people are exclusively hetero or homo. I have no stand on the genetics thing, which is something that is both wanted and feared by some gay activists. Wanted because they want to say that they are not unnatural as what most abrahimic religions say, feared for the chance that people will want to 'ensure' that no kids are born with that gene turned 'on'.

As for why this was brought up, well you are the one who asked for facts/theories to support what kakumei said on being born gay.

Bold: Previously my main point is homosexual got no relation with genetics, so i ask the speaker for prove regarding genetics stuff.

Another important thing is, u should read back the previous few replies especially bout what i said because i was the one doubt this idea not the one support it

Like you said, your main point is homosexual got no relation with genetics, and you asked for proof/theories and I replied.

Can you clarify what you just said? Which idea do you doubt and not support? Do you doubt that sexuality is related to genetics or is it the other way round? This is part of what you said:

You state that what kakumei said on sexuality (which he apparently learnt in psychology) as false, asked for facts/theories and I replied.

Im asking him/her to explain in a way that giving fact/theories at the same time, instead of keep saying lots of things based on nothing or assumptions.
And actually i dun really bother when he/she truly give out theories/prove to support what he/she said.
While in the end, i did ask what is all this related to religion, which the main thing i doubt is the relation between his/her statement and religion