If all religions promote values that are beneficial for humanity, I suggest science as the religion and we worship technology.

It is impossible to debate religion scientifically. because no matter how much proof you have, as long as a person believe there is a god, there will be a god. science will NEVER be able to disprove that, since science will never be able to prove everything. (although it will prove a lot)
and on the same note, religion should stay out of scientific arguments because whatever religious arguments are brought to that discussion, they aren't scientifically valid. (like creationism)

The problem is, science changes too much (over time as new discoveries are made), while religion changes too little (or none at all). I stand on the side of science, but I wouldn't disprove god.

In theory, in order to witness the day Earth exists, we will need a time machine and the ability to survive the extreme energy sources of outer space, and recording a video of how Earth started to form, and how organisms began and evolved on Earth. Then and only then, I'm afraid we can't disprove God. (Ironically, if we are able to do all that, we are actually the GOD in our current frame of references! LOL!)

I could be wrong, but my version of that would be "Science without humane values can be dangerous" (example: Nuclear energy used in a destructive way instead of productive). If being 'blind' = have no sight/ignorant of the consequences that might come, thus it's dangerous. Religion promotes humane values, as well as supernatural values and values that were formed at a time where technology is very limited and therefore formed with no regard to the level of information we have of the environment, specifically the Earth. We, as intelligent species on Earth with the ability to reason, should take the values from religion that are relevant to our social health as a whole.

This post has been edited by tzmmalaysia: Dec 3 2010, 05:58 PM

I guess if god really exists, and god is 'good' as what our current beliefs state, then I know god wants us to really love each other and take good care of Earth, our home. God gives us the ability to reason, to create tools based on our understanding of the feedbacks that nature have given to us called 'science', so that we can improve our lives and preserve the planet for future generations to come. If god can hear me, I want to ask god, what are politicians, bankers and governments doing to our world and fellow human beings? Why are they dividing us, controlling us, enslaving us, confusing us, conquering us, and harming us? Is money more important than the welfare of every person on Earth? I know that if god wouldn't answer us, we have to solve the problems on our own. That's why god gives us the ability to reason.

Yes I agree that humans can be ugly but there is always a reason for them to do so. It always has to do with getting something, in most cases in our current world, it has to do with money and status, directly or indirectly. However, all of the good people I know who do good, they do it because they feel happy when others are happy for the good deeds they do. If most of the reasons for someone to turn ugly are eliminated, if not all, I believe humans can stay on the good side.

It's all indoctrination really. A baby that grows up without religion can still live properly given education and exposure to humane and relevant values of living. It's difficult in today's culture because we still have superstitious people around a kid as he grows up, there is still religious classes in schools, religious festivals celebrated by family, religious ideas portrayed in movies, music, media, etc. Just like the term 'ghost', if nobody tries to scare a child with the idea, a child won't associate 'ghost' with 'fear'. I hate it whenever I see people scare a child with fear associations. You don't scare a child, you educate him.

With all due respect for your empathy towards humanity, I'm sorry but I have to say that the method is improper.

You don't make lost people lost further. People are lost due to lack of knowledge and information. I support all the humane values promoted by religions, but I stand strong against all the superstitious beliefs which are also promoted by religions. We must understand that religions are created thousands of years ago, back then people didn't have the tools to acquire proper knowledge and information, which caused insecurity of almost everything, but people were still primitive, and thus something has to be done to instill humane values in them. Religion is a mixture of both. Now that we have the tools to do more research into the origins of religions, we can properly differentiate what values of religions we can keep, and what values that are irrelevant (mostly fear-mongering, hence it causes people to subconsciously believe that fear-mongering towards other humans is something that is right to do and can be done, because religion does it).

This post has been edited by tzmmalaysia: Dec 14 2010, 12:07 PM

So your logic is that if an establishment supports false information, even though people know about it, they should keep quiet and be obedient? Religion is big not because of the information it presents, but the amount of people that supports it, even though some of the information is not logic. By presenting factual information, more and more people will reject the superstitious part of religions. Atheists have been growing due to these information. However, there's also a problem with atheists because they reject religions blindly without consideration of humane values, and they don't respect religions. That's why a neutral and humane approach must be used on religions, for the benefit of everyone.