we'll see how things goes, but so far WoW is definitely leading on the MMO pack

contenders are bound to come up - thats for certain

but so far none have got close

lol i only do 2/25 XD

End game is never grinding, cos even if you don't get loot, others will. It's a team thing. Just because you don't get loot doesn't classify it as a grind =)

But yes, I've done SWP for AGES and everytime the polearm drops off the trash, someone else gets it. And then on the day WotLK was released, the trash decided to drop 2 polearms in 2 pulls....

ah yes - the miracle of RNG

just drives u nuts, aint it?

and you dont have to deal with that on pvp looting. unless you wanna count vaults, but then again thats a grayline between pvp and pve

being in a guild, there is no need for RNG...
EPGP ensures every1 get gear up...

only under 1 condition - you have enough 'points' to buy your stuff

or the other 9/24 guys liked you enough to let you have your stuff

being in too much raiding guilds, i have enough bad blood experiences when comes to guild run item looting - 80% of the time, drama ensues and next, the guild splitted

systems like DKP or the new KARMA was 'meant' to help - but it actually creates more drama, where some guy with a hidous amount of points can undercut another that actually needs the upgrade

of course, i'm not saying all guild are like that - but these are some basic knowledge one should at least aware off before you decide to dedicate your time to constantly raid with your guild of choice

what u mention is DKP...

EPGP works differently (go have a look at the whole theory about it)...
there's a decay of EP with a fixed value of GP on various gears...
so u can't hogg ur points forever saving for something (of course u could but the nett loss in gears is much more that any sensible person would mind) or undercut by bidding more points...

as for the drama u mentioned, if the undergeared guy jz waited a bit more then it would be his turn and every1 gets gear...
u dun expect to be new in the guild with a low EP/GP and yet wants loots that are an upgrade for u...
unless of course u alone can carry the rest in a fight which u can't...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Oct 5 2009, 01:15 PM

you missed out: "if item drops or not" <-- biggest RNG factor (the rest you've listed arent really RNG as it can be controled)

unless ur guild is unable to down the same boss consistently every week, that is not a factor...
as currently, there is no RNG algo to date...
all u get is a pseudo-RNG algo which sooner or later would cross that vector for that loot...

Would the EPGP decay be punishing for raiders who want to spend but their gears just won't drop?

u gain EP when u participate in raids (kills, on time etc)
u gain GP when u get a loot (each item have its own GP value)

loot is given based on the highest EP/GP...
only EP would decay (10% per week for my guild)...

so let say: -
A = 2000ep 400gp (5)
B = 2000ep 500gp (4)
thus if a decay of 10%;
A = 1800ep 400gp (4.5)
B = 1800ep 500gp (3.6)

thus on the decay, A loosed 0.5 while B looses 0.4...
so it does not promote points hogging...
A still have the higher EP/GP and would get the next loot so it is not really punishing for him and over the long run, everything would even out...

loot are given out to the highest EP/GP...
there's no such thing as bidding by offering more...
so ppl can't actually 'spend' their points...
this is not a currency like DKP where u can go bidding frenzy and dramas trying to get the other to bid more dkp than u...

sigh.

there is a big difference in terms of RNG and pseudoRNG in comp science...
psuedoRNG tries to mimic RNG over a period and wutever after the period would returning to state 0...
in other words, psuedo RNG is not random at all...

/sigh @ the nerd explaination that is needed to be given

that condition is kinda like pre-built - one doesnt even need to mention it, coz drops are always RNG based

just like how hard u tried to get that epic axes from the place, but it never drops - and when it does, ya either aint around, or someone else beats ya to it

systems like DKP, KARMA or evo's EVGP were created to 'maximize' the raid efficiency - as in who's more 'eiligible' for the upgrade, or who would contribute to the raid more if he/she is given the upgrade

there is no perfect system though - so it is always a good idea to at least get to know your raiding guild's rules, so ya dont get shafted/jacked

personally, i find the greed/need rolling system is good enough to handle item distribution - but alas, most ppl hate betting their luck

apparently it isnt so according to someone

mathematicly, you can prove it wrong - why is why we have databases indicating the drop %, like 15% or even 90%

the thing is, sometimes (or most of the time, depending on your personal experience) the bad % takes a higher roll

some say patience is a virtue - it is. then again, running the same place for Nth time cant getting what you want/need can really, really drives you nuts

my worse personal experience would be the staff from heroic oculus - not only it is the only place where the only pre-raid epic spell staff drops, it is also infamous amongst most dungeon goers; despite my personal liking of the instance

i'd say it took me almost 4 months just to get it drop - and thats just a rough estimate

exactly.

where there is no guarantee over a certain factor, it would become a random factor. and the definition of RNG is simple, Random Number Generator, aka that very random factor.

some reading for u since u dun get the difference between RNG and pseudoRNG:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudorandom_number_generator

and some related concepts that would help u understand better wut i've said
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler's_fallacy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler's_ruin

again, there is no 'true' randomness for drops in WoW...
the loots would somehow even out in the end when such content is on farm...
have fun theorycrafting about ur loots =p

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Oct 6 2009, 02:20 AM

way to miss the point entirely. here, ill make this simple for you:

can you guarantee me, that if i go kill KT 25 this week, he would drop sinister's revenge, and me rolling a high number winning it against a pug if its being contested? hell, ill make it interesting for you, rm50 to you if i get the dagger, rm50 to me if i dont. dare to take up that bet? lol. i mean, its not random, according to you, right?