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 I am really disappointed, that Aion is not a WoW killer

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evofantasy
post Oct 3 2009, 03:08 AM

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QUOTE(ChcGamer @ Oct 2 2009, 11:14 PM)
Its still the same if we put it this way.

Leveling isnt forced upon you as well, if we look at Warhammer, we can say you can choose not to do PvE in order to level fast instead you can just continue grind PvP and stay competitive at lower tier. Nobody force anyone to reach max level in Warhammer

People grind to level in order to stay competitive as well. Hardcore gamers will grind in order to reach highest level the earliest. Remember the DK who got rollbacked? Otherwise, we can choose to play casually and enjoy the game while leveling slowly. Some grind certain mobs or zones over and over again for loot. Its all personal preferences again.

No MMORPG can avoid grinding. Like i said earlier, WoW is just another form of grinding in disguise. Some games like Warhammer really had the intention and concept to be successful but it was executed badly probably in a rush.

We have to admit WoW really did set a standard for the future MMORPG to follow which is why many players will just go back to WoW after a while...they just dont have the patience like 5 years ago when they started WoW as they had not much other choices to choose from at that time

Anyway, WoW storyline isnt superb. It was good when it started and imo it has started to get ridiculous since BC launched. Story wise, there are some other MMORPGs that might be better such as DDO

WoW strongest points i believe would be endgame raids and the game can be easily picked up by new players. Aion has a very tedious gathering and crafting system where new players might be discouraged to level it

WoW will get extremely addictive once you devote your life to it. When one devote his life to WoW, no other MMORPGs will appeal to him till he burn out. This applies for every MMORPGs in the market
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for one who played warhammer and wow, i would agree on warhammer's concepts...
they got everything right, until when its time to implement it then the lag ruined it...
if it is not good, WoW would not have copied so much from warhammer...
heck into cataclysm would have some ideas originated from WAR such as guild lvling gystem...

pvp wise, warhammer's pvp is much better if u are looking for casual open world time...
too bad the lag and the lack of end game content on launch for the hardcore kills off the game...
the whole hype given to it before release was justified to me...
evofantasy
post Oct 5 2009, 11:47 AM

Avadion of the Enders
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QUOTE(sp@wn @ Oct 5 2009, 10:18 AM)
ah yes - the miracle of RNG

just drives u nuts, aint it?
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being in a guild, there is no need for RNG...
EPGP ensures every1 get gear up...
evofantasy
post Oct 5 2009, 01:14 PM

Avadion of the Enders
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QUOTE(sp@wn @ Oct 5 2009, 01:03 PM)
only under 1 condition - you have enough 'points' to buy your stuff

or the other 9/24 guys liked you enough to let you have your stuff

being in too much raiding guilds, i have enough bad blood experiences when comes to guild run item looting - 80% of the time, drama ensues and next, the guild splitted

systems like DKP or the new KARMA was 'meant' to help - but it actually creates more drama, where some guy with a hidous amount of points can undercut another that actually needs the upgrade

of course, i'm not saying all guild are like that - but these are some basic knowledge one should at least aware off before you decide to dedicate your time to constantly raid with your guild of choice
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what u mention is DKP...

EPGP works differently (go have a look at the whole theory about it)...
there's a decay of EP with a fixed value of GP on various gears...
so u can't hogg ur points forever saving for something (of course u could but the nett loss in gears is much more that any sensible person would mind) or undercut by bidding more points...

as for the drama u mentioned, if the undergeared guy jz waited a bit more then it would be his turn and every1 gets gear...
u dun expect to be new in the guild with a low EP/GP and yet wants loots that are an upgrade for u...
unless of course u alone can carry the rest in a fight which u can't...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Oct 5 2009, 01:15 PM
evofantasy
post Oct 5 2009, 01:58 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Oct 5 2009, 01:54 PM)
you missed out: "if item drops or not" <-- biggest RNG factor (the rest you've listed arent really RNG as it can be controled)
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unless ur guild is unable to down the same boss consistently every week, that is not a factor...
as currently, there is no RNG algo to date...
all u get is a pseudo-RNG algo which sooner or later would cross that vector for that loot...
evofantasy
post Oct 5 2009, 02:44 PM

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QUOTE(Aggroboy @ Oct 5 2009, 02:31 PM)
Would the EPGP decay be punishing for raiders who want to spend but their gears just won't drop?
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u gain EP when u participate in raids (kills, on time etc)
u gain GP when u get a loot (each item have its own GP value)

loot is given based on the highest EP/GP...
only EP would decay (10% per week for my guild)...

so let say: -
A = 2000ep 400gp (5)
B = 2000ep 500gp (4)
thus if a decay of 10%;
A = 1800ep 400gp (4.5)
B = 1800ep 500gp (3.6)

thus on the decay, A loosed 0.5 while B looses 0.4...
so it does not promote points hogging...
A still have the higher EP/GP and would get the next loot so it is not really punishing for him and over the long run, everything would even out...

loot are given out to the highest EP/GP...
there's no such thing as bidding by offering more...
so ppl can't actually 'spend' their points...
this is not a currency like DKP where u can go bidding frenzy and dramas trying to get the other to bid more dkp than u...
evofantasy
post Oct 5 2009, 03:34 PM

Avadion of the Enders
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Oct 5 2009, 03:13 PM)
sigh.
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there is a big difference in terms of RNG and pseudoRNG in comp science...
psuedoRNG tries to mimic RNG over a period and wutever after the period would returning to state 0...
in other words, psuedo RNG is not random at all...

/sigh @ the nerd explaination that is needed to be given
evofantasy
post Oct 6 2009, 02:18 AM

Avadion of the Enders
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Oct 5 2009, 06:46 PM)
apparently it isnt so according to someone  rolleyes.gif  rolleyes.gif
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Oct 5 2009, 08:22 PM)
exactly.

where there is no guarantee over a certain factor, it would become a random factor. and the definition of RNG is simple, Random Number Generator, aka that very random factor.
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some reading for u since u dun get the difference between RNG and pseudoRNG:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudorandom_number_generator

and some related concepts that would help u understand better wut i've said
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler's_fallacy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler's_ruin

again, there is no 'true' randomness for drops in WoW...
the loots would somehow even out in the end when such content is on farm...
have fun theorycrafting about ur loots =p

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Oct 6 2009, 02:20 AM
evofantasy
post Oct 6 2009, 11:23 AM

Avadion of the Enders
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Oct 6 2009, 04:21 AM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


way to miss the point entirely. here, ill make this simple for you:

can you guarantee me, that if i go kill KT 25 this week, he would drop sinister's revenge, and me rolling a high number winning it against a pug if its being contested? hell, ill make it interesting for you, rm50 to you if i get the dagger, rm50 to me if i dont.  dare to take up that bet? lol. i mean, its not random, according to you, right?
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dude did u even read wut i wrote in the first place?

QUOTE(evofantasy @ Oct 5 2009, 01:58 PM)
unless ur guild is unable to down the same boss consistently every week, that is not a factor...
as currently, there is no RNG algo to date...
all u get is a pseudo-RNG algo which sooner or later would cross that vector for that loot...
*
i'm talking about being in a guild, not a pug (or a fail pug since u get saved without reaching the boss u need)...
the whole context of not making it a grind in wow = being in a guild that raid the content (thus content on farm after a period)...
why are we even bringing up pugs or even rolls for a guild using effective looting system (unless u wanna be in a guild with rolls and drama)...

over a certain period, the randomness dies down (unless some1 manage to implement a 'pure' RNG algo to be used by blizzard) as u can read from all the links i gave u...
applying such concept while raiding in a guild (good one) would eliminate these 'randomness' and every1 gets the loot they want after a certain period...

seriously /facepalm

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Oct 6 2009, 11:24 AM
evofantasy
post Oct 6 2009, 02:08 PM

Avadion of the Enders
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Oct 6 2009, 12:14 PM)
so you're saying loot is guaranteed now?  rolleyes.gif
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loot is guaranteed over a long run being in a guild (not pug) thus not being a 'grind' or QQ i dun get the loot...
seriously u never read the theories i've posted on how things are in a long run?
pseudoRNG repeats itself after a certain period thus breaking the definition of 'randomness' lean towards 'predictability'...
this would only be false if blizzard have a trueRNG algo which does not exist in the current age of computing...

being in a single pug (ur KT-25) where only 2-3 drops over a possible of 10+ dun guarantee u the loot...
but farming the same boss with the same group (a guild) would cross the loot vector (again see the theory i've posted)...
1-3 of the same loot over 10runs...
a good guild raid compo would have 1-3 of those needed the loot as well thus every1 is happy towards the end

u got ur own guild...
u should be aware on how being in a guild makes looting a difference over a pug...
how looting for a guild is consistent over a long run where every1 get gear up for harder content whereas a pug which ppl in/out and every1 wants loot...

both me, perunding and several others are in raiding guilds...
u dun see us with loot problems lol...

i guess knowing how probability, randomness and predictability actually works makes me
QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Oct 6 2009, 11:54 AM)
a smart ass and point out something that is incorrect in the first place
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dun QQ over randomness when being consistent beats psuedoRNG...
if not, ppl wont bother posting drop % when it is random...
pure/true randomness dun work the way...

i guess he can™ change psuedoRNG into trueRNG...

keyword: over a long run, period

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Oct 6 2009, 02:14 PM
evofantasy
post Oct 6 2009, 02:53 PM

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QUOTE(khelben @ Oct 6 2009, 02:16 PM)
My guild was farming KelThuzad for quite a while. Like months at that time? My dkp was like 1000 more than the rest because I was saving it for The Turning Tide. Never seen it drop.

Got firesoul from Leviathan 10man on the 2nd week of Ulduar's release and, although it isn't as good, but good enough for me to not meet KelThuzad ever again lol.
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months as in how long?
if u follow the gambler's ruin, every week would have an equal chance of dropping the loot and not getting it this week would not mean u getting it next week at a higher probability...

 

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