Like what type of energy are they using and how they "store" those energy, and what's the "source" of those energy, et cetera

If that's possible, we won't be calling them ghost.

It would be extraterrestrial instead.

i heard ghost can be somewhat found cause they gives out EMP.

what I mean is, if we can "see" ghost (some of us anyway) and some ghosts can even be "photographed", it means that they are THERE, in some form, most probably in the form of some "energy" or something, right?

and it shouldn't be that hard to detect energy, right?

1) People seeing ghosts hardly constitutes for hard evidence of the existence of ghosts. You've pushed aside more realistic explanations, such as psychological or other related physiological phenomena. To date there have been no credible evidence of ghosts from any scientific study.

2) Photos of ghosts are also not evidence of their existence. Yet again you've pushed aside the possibilities of doctoring, optical illusions or artifacts, mechanical faults and the like. You've also ignored the propensity of people to craft elaborate hoaxes for fun, fame or fortune, or all three.

Again, there hasn't been any hard evidence of the existence of ghosts in any of the scientific studies that I've read about. There are, however, several scientific theories as to why regular people sometimes see apparitions or feel uneasy/uncomfortable/the chills in certain locations, and no, there are nothing paranormal about the explanations.

For your benefit I've looked up the equipment that typical ghost hunters use. To my surprise, most of them are pretty mundane--things like audio recording devices, Geiger counters (what?), infrared/uv cameras and EMF meters. Detecting anything with these equipment does not make for evidence of ghosts.

Fact is, people tend to pick up patterns where there are none. More so when we're dealing with things that we cannot directly observe. Notice a trend in the equipment I listed? They all measure quantities that we cannot see, hear or feel with our naked senses (radiation, infrasound, electromagnetic fields). We see faces or objects in the clouds all the time, or shadows that look like something else, but we normally don't associate them with paranormal phenomena.

Imagine a world where ghosts do exist. Photography would be a much more difficult task. Think you got that shot just right? Well think again, that ghost just got in the way again. "Put your arm on your waist. Yeah just like that. That's perfect. Looking good. Now let's just chec--Ah for f***s sake it's that goddamn ghost again."

That recording of your band's newest song? Sorry, it's ruined. "That was a good you guys. Except for the talking, could you keep it down? What do you mean you weren't talki--Oh jesus it's that f***ing ghost again. Will you just get a f***ing job already."

All scientific experiments would have to include a "ghost f***ing around with our data" factor to account for deviations of measured data due to ghosts f***ing around with measurements.

I think you get my drift.

I find your post rather hilarious, albeit logical to read XD

I think rather, measuring ghost is somewhat the wrong path to go about it.
Let's look at it, are ghosts definable? If not, how can it be measured?

While I'd say the methodology is wrong, i can't say if ghosts are definable or not XD

although we couldn't prove that these ghost or apparations are there, we can't really proof that they do not exist as well.
i agree that the psychological and mental state of a person does play a significant role in the so called alleged ghost sightings, but can we really rule out the possibility?
modern science may have an explanation for almost all of these paranormal events, but we should see it from both perspectives. probably thats why research is going on and there are many so called ghost hunters out there.
in my opinion.. given enough time.. modern science will probably be able to dissect these ghosts and soon offer an explanation.

Some of the program shown is discovery channel might no be real.

Some are boasted to create attention of the audience.

Personally, i dont believe in ghost. Though there are many ppl outside there claimed they saw or feel the ghoest. These story can be vary as each race have their own kind of ghost. Pontianak? Kuntilanak? Vampire? Zombie?

If there are ghost outside there, it might just a feint voice as shadow, AS spirit/ dead ppl dont have a physical body? i mean logically.

Still, i dont believe in that unless i saw one ( touch wood )

Seeing is believing.

The concept of ghost is still remains as a hypothesis. Until when it can be proven, nobody knows. It is now parks under system of belief in belief.

In the realm of science, we have to proof something existence and not to disproof it.

Example, Mr. A says to Mr. B, there is one invisible purple elephant in the jungle.

Mr. B : "Show me the proof of it existence"

Mr. A : " You can not see it because it is invisible, now show me the proof that it does not exist"

In the context above, Mr. B is logical to ask for the proof and we would agree that Mr. A argument is weak and did not carry much weight at all.

If Mr. A argument forms the basis of our logic, we all can say that there was a "talking table" in our house when we were young, it was thrown away after it stopped talking. Now proof that it doesn't exist. Can simply just replace the "talking table" with a "flying cup", "tooth fairy"...etc


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From the title of this topic, it started with an assumption that ghost exist already and how to measure it scientifically.

Obviously believers would agree that it exists and provides some equipment example of how to measure it.

And non believers would argue that no way to measure it as it does not exist in the first place.

Personally I like what the scientist Paul Davies arguments on ghost existence.

"Are we really heading to the right direction of trying to find, measure spirit existence, or in fact the so called "spirit" is actually a bi-product OR a result of another outcome".

Example, a love story book is made out of "words". However a combination of words (become sentences, paragraph) giving a "greater" meaning to the individual word itself making it so touching, lively and want to make the reader cry.

The reader would says that this book is so touchy, have spirit and really touch our heart.

This is an example of the sum of individual parts (the whole) is greater then the individual parts when there are separated.

Another example is music notes (do, re, mi). Individually they does not really touchy, but once contructed into a melody and synergize using a ton of oschestra instrument, it becomes so emosionally touching.

A "melody" is "not just a group of collection of notes" only. When "combines together", it became "something else".

Again the sum of the whole is greater then the individual parts when there are alone.


Imagine a country flag made out of 5 thousand people hat in different colour. Individually there are just one person with a hat. However, when combine together, it became a country flag.

Again the sum of the whole is greater then the individual parts when there are alone.

What Paul try to illustrate is "A super set" can produce a behaviour that is not possible to be seen in individual part.

Now ask ourselves this question, is "amoeba" (single cell organism) has spirit? Is plant has spirit?

Amoeba exibit the same reaction as human, need to eat, avoid danger and can reproduce. Does it has spirit?

Human consists of legs, hands, brains, body etc, when all these organs intact together, the sum of the whole is greater then the individual parts when there are alone.

This "super set" produce coutiousness.

The so called "spirit" is a bi-product of this super set.

Something for us to think about.

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My apology of this long post here.

Cheers.

Not everything needs solid proof to be proven?
Like me i have felt this type of presence before? You can say its cause by tis tis tis tis that that that?

But what are the odds for such thing to happen?
Its like when cigarettes or F&N coke was around they took nearly 50years to prove its bad for health. So imagine how many lifes been taken within that time frame.

Some that really experience this never made it back to share with us.

well u may be right there. but comparing the concept of ghost to an invisible purple elephant is hardly a fair comparison.
There are a good number of people out there who have felt the presence of ghost or even seen them. Not just one or two.
In addition to that, modern science has not offer any reasonable theory to proof that what these people have seen aren't ghost.

but then, what's the significance if we are able to measure ghost?

if, we are able to successfully measure ghost, we may have more insight into how it is generated. following the step wise process of science, which include observation, hypothesis, manipulation, reproduction and inference. we may just be able to manipulate its energy and reproduce it from the insight we have gained from "measuring ghost".

Well said,and you just show that all these paranormal "science" threads can have reasonable and well thought argument in it.

"Can ghost be scientifically measured"?

The question is, what to do after you can measure it?

Everything in this world has its own measurement. Anyone agree?
I agree with above statement.
The examples, I think you can try think by yourself.
The orbit, climate, weight, energy, etc. And it is in perfect order.

And according to some theory the world is made of energy.
Therefore, everything is measureable.
If it is not measureable, it is only because the human race, is NOT YET capable of discovering "the method".
The method can be simplified in a form of formula, etc.
Every scientific discovery, of course, is "IMPOSSIBLE" before it has been discovered.
500 years ago, if we compare to now, there is a lot of impossible things made possible.
You just have to look around and see.

As for the ghost, I think there is a ghost.
Because there is visible part and there is invisible part. Within, without. Yin yang. Positive negative. Day night. Male female. Life death. Buyer seller. Employer employee. Income outcome. cause effect.
Everything has its pair.
You can't see sound but you know it is there.
You can't see ghost (but some people can), but when the moment comes, when your sense can recognize it, you know it is there.
Take note that human have limited sense compared to some animals.
So our 'frequency' is different. We cannot reach certain areas. But it is still a perfect creation.
Otherwise we would be in trouble, hearing sounds from ants, etc.

Yes, seeing is believing,
but sometimes what you see is not the truth,
for the truth is in the unseen.

You can see someone doing nice thing, helping people,
but the truth is invincible - INTENTION.
can you see intention?

Just my opinion, read it with an open mind.

Thanks

This post has been edited by marsalee: Sep 28 2009, 01:34 AM

External factors apply, y'know. Like state of mind, phobias and so forth. Now I'm not denying that they don't exist, given plenty of evidence currently lying around, but all the same I see no reason to give a nod towards the belief that they do exist. At least they haven't shown themselves or most normal people aren't able to percieve or see such things (it being outside of our capabilities to see/feel) with the exception of the minority.

Anyway, like pretty much all the things we feel, we can't actually see them. We humans create our own words and descriptions for such things.

See, it's some theory. May not be applicable to everything.

Thing is, are there even ghosts? Because if there're none, u can try and try till death do you apart, but still can't get any result.

Like, if you're looking for a nice pair of jeans, you wouldn't go to Mc'Donalds to search for it

poor reply...

you have no supportive details on your arguments, just using if.
Explain why you do not believe there is ghost? Your reasons?
Do you believe there is satan?
Can we compare ghost with jeans? What type of comparison is that?

Wahaha...

i'm well aware of the external factors.
But what i'm merely voicing is just my opinion.. and like i've said in my previous post.
i believe that it is a natural phenomenon, their existence, it isn't anything paranormal.. and given time i'm sure science will get to the bottom of it.
its out there.. we just don't know what it is..... yet.