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 How much is your net worth?, gauging your financial performance.

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Ramjade
post Aug 18 2023, 10:47 PM

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QUOTE(michaelchang @ Aug 18 2023, 09:20 PM)
Fine print have guaranteed insurance till 100 years old??
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If you pay on time and full, no fraud, no surrender yes.
hedfi
post Aug 18 2023, 11:18 PM

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QUOTE(Lembu Goreng @ Aug 18 2023, 09:54 PM)
Nah i’ve set aside 500k cash for any major medical issues, like i said if need more than 500k just let me die lah

Also i know some cases even if you have 1m insurance, the insurance can just reject your claim due to ‘technicalities’. So their 1m insurance is not even worth 1 sen

So i prefer having cash
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Why don't make insurance work. Why use personal 500k iso. pooling resources. Your insurance maybe cost you only 50k
Lembu Goreng
post Aug 18 2023, 11:26 PM

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QUOTE(hedfi @ Aug 18 2023, 11:18 PM)
Why don't make insurance work. Why use personal 500k iso. pooling resources. Your insurance maybe cost you only 50k
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I think I previously calculated, what I needed to pay the insurance premium to get the 500k coverage, I could just put the same amount into investments and make my own 500k.

This way I'm not held to ransom by the insurance company.

Also, now that I have the 500k, I don't touch it nor do I put in more money into it.

At 5% returns/year, in ~14 years (and not touching it) I will have 1mil coverage anyway (and I will be 58yrs).


This post has been edited by Lembu Goreng: Aug 18 2023, 11:41 PM
Ramjade
post Aug 18 2023, 11:33 PM

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QUOTE(hedfi @ Aug 18 2023, 11:18 PM)
Why don't make insurance work. Why use personal 500k iso. pooling resources. Your insurance maybe cost you only 50k
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Insurance cost until old is never RM50k. If 50k, I also want. RM50k is for those with RM100k limit.

Estimated cost until old is RM200-300k
brokenbomb
post Aug 19 2023, 03:07 PM

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Very rare to detect stage 1 and 2 cancer.

Unless u very rajin to do mammo every year.

Most people got it at stage 3 or 4

How i know

Is because i saw a lump on my neck. Painless. X sakit.

Then bedah sent for biopsy

Stage 3 polymorphous adenocarcinoma
cklimm
post Aug 19 2023, 03:58 PM

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QUOTE(brokenbomb @ Aug 19 2023, 03:07 PM)
Very rare to detect stage 1 and 2 cancer.

Unless u very rajin to do mammo every year.

Most people got it at stage 3 or 4

How i know

Is because i saw a lump on my neck. Painless. X sakit.

Then bedah sent for biopsy

Stage 3 polymorphous adenocarcinoma
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omg, then whats the treatment?
adele123
post Aug 19 2023, 04:29 PM

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QUOTE(Lembu Goreng @ Aug 18 2023, 11:26 PM)
I think I previously calculated, what I needed to pay the insurance premium to get the 500k coverage, I could just put the same amount into investments and make my own 500k.

This way I'm not held to ransom by the insurance company.

Also, now that I have the 500k, I don't touch it nor do I put in more money into it.

At 5% returns/year, in ~14 years (and not touching it) I will have 1mil coverage anyway (and I will be 58yrs).
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You are not wrong in your concept. I dunno what is the actual number to comment. But the concept is susceptible to "fluctuations". You are also not protected from the tail end risk.

Logically and statistically assuming we have data, most people will spend around an X amount on their medical bills, but there are also some on the tail end, where very small amount of ppl will spend a lot more.

Unless your buffer is very high, I might still suggest getting medical insurance with a really high deductible. 50k or 100k perhaps? Anything above 100k, they cover you. And the cost of insurance is a lot lower. The idea is to be covered even if the tail end event happened.

Food for thought....

This post has been edited by adele123: Aug 19 2023, 04:30 PM
Lembu Goreng
post Aug 19 2023, 05:46 PM

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QUOTE(adele123 @ Aug 19 2023, 04:29 PM)
You are not wrong in your concept. I dunno what is the actual number to comment. But the concept is susceptible to "fluctuations". You are also not protected from the tail end risk.

Logically and statistically assuming we have data, most people will spend around an X amount on their medical bills, but there are also some on the tail end, where very small amount of ppl will spend a lot more.

Unless your buffer is very high, I might still suggest getting medical insurance with a really high deductible. 50k or 100k perhaps? Anything above 100k, they cover you. And the cost of insurance is a lot lower. The idea is to be covered even if the tail end event happened.

Food for thought....
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That’s an interesting suggestion, quite clever I might add. Thank you


adele123
post Aug 19 2023, 06:46 PM

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QUOTE(Wedchar2912 @ Aug 12 2023, 03:36 PM)
how much should one budget pm for medical insurance?
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There should not be a benchmark. the question really lies in how much you want vs how much you can afford. as in all things, you can buy all the insurance in the world, but can you afford it? of course i do understand some people would fear they do not have enough. best is still sit down and plan. it's not easy but there's a reason why financial adviser exist.

i spend approximately 2.7% of my salary on medical + CI insurance (one of the policies comes with 50k life protection together with medical and CI in an ILP plan, so the cost abit hard to segregate). there's no context also on this just by stating the %.

Imagine a fresh grad salary, RM3500 per month, he or she will spend 150 to 200 per month for medical insurance, most likely closer to 200 per month these days, then the % 200/3500, is 5.7%, which may seem high initially.

QUOTE(gamenoob @ Aug 12 2023, 04:05 PM)
In my reply earlier on, this is given; at least from my planning.

If we are talking about retiring financially independent, that’s include medical and healthcare cost.

Hence medical insurance is given/pre requisite.

I’m looking at annual limit of 1m and no lifetime limit and my target is stop paying medical insurance at 65 or earlier so the accumulated cash balance will self pay the cost of insurance until kicking the bucket.
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You can hope to stop paying at age 65, but the rate of medical inflation is no joke and when insurance company reprice your medical plan (historically once every few years), your planning may go out of whack. you should expect some increase every now and then, even if you super prepay alot in the accumulated cash balance. in theory what you say is do-able... but the prepayment may not be a small amount in reality that you may hesitate to do so.

QUOTE(gamenoob @ Aug 13 2023, 04:49 PM)
Quite similar with coverage I'm at. 200 RB, 1.5m annual, no lifetime with allianz. My plan was upgraded by them without any med checks, just 2-3 years ago. After some medical situation, decided to increase the advanced/pay ahead. Based on estimate, the premium should be quite imilar like yours at 80yrs. I'm asking them to get me a real costing for some one at 70/80  yrs old on allianz plan. If things go as planned, such premium is covered by my fin plan at 80. Next question is can one live happily and healthily to that  age. Hope I still can get up and go without much challenges
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No one can give you a real costing up to age 70/80, sadly. no one can't predict the future.

QUOTE(kochin @ Aug 18 2023, 09:13 AM)
17k/year seems awfully expensive.
one thing i'd learnt from insurances, always do a review once every 3-5 years.
it's way cheaper to continuously buy new plan with all the latest features.
and why are you so against ilp?
my medical yearly limit is rm1.5m. unlimited lifetime limit. 200 room and board.
and from what i'd been told when i purchased my plan, this is a guaranteed scheme until i reach 80 years old rather than the conventional 70 years old.
but my premium is less than a third of yours.
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IT IS NOT WAY CHEAPER to continuously buy new plan, especially ILP. It does not work that way. it may seem that way. The way how ILP works is that, every month you pay a premium, example RM300 per month. From this RM300, there is a charge on this that goes to the insurance company and it's called unallocated premium AND the balance will go into your "investment account". Every month, insurance company will deduct something called insurance charge or cost of insurance from the investment account. the cost of insurance (COI) WILL increase as you grow older.

the unallocated premium is a % of the premium. this unallocated premium is DEFINITELY the highest during the 1st few years and will slowly decrease over time... and become zero eventually. by BNM rules, for newer plans, it must be 0% from year 11 onwards. It's a reducing charge, if you KEEP buying new plan, you will KEEP getting charged on this. this is the reason why you should not keep buying new ILP plans. What you should do is, ask your insurance company, can my existing ILP plan entitle to the latest medical plan, if yes, you just delete the existing medical plan, and attach the new medical plan. SOME companies, due to their lousy system, your 20-year ILP plan may not have access to the latest medical plan. this is where going for the smaller insurance company may not be advantageous, lesser resources, hence can't support such request.

most likely you may need to top up some premium, because the COI may be higher for the new plan. but what i'm trying to get across is... it's NOT cheaper to buy a new ILP plan.

QUOTE(Lembu Goreng @ Aug 19 2023, 05:46 PM)
That’s an interesting suggestion, quite clever I might add. Thank you
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My idea is more likely to be accepted by people like you who have thought those stuff. good luck in your planning. wish you all the best.
contestchris
post Aug 19 2023, 06:48 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Aug 18 2023, 08:01 PM)
Yes. All insurance have that clause but based off what 4 agents told me (both AIA and GE), all tell me the same thing. ILP is the one which always experience the increase and as far as they worked standalone increases always follow the table.

4 different people from 2 different company is good enough for me.

If you do your own research here and Reddit, you will see what they say is true. Those affected are those with ILP. I read through 5 years back of posting.
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Isn't it because standalone insurance is yearly renewable? While the ILP is guaranteed renewal? Meaning, if you get sick and claim rm300k this year, the insurance company would just say sorry your loading is now rmxxxx with xxxx exclusions.
Ramjade
post Aug 19 2023, 06:56 PM

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QUOTE(contestchris @ Aug 19 2023, 06:48 PM)
Isn't it because standalone insurance is yearly renewable? While the ILP is guaranteed renewal? Meaning, if you get sick and claim rm300k this year, the insurance company would just say sorry your loading is now rmxxxx with xxxx exclusions.
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All insurance all nowadays guaranteed renewaable. That was one of my main priority when choosing my insurance. Read the terms and conditions.

It's mentioned policy will be inforce unless
1. Person does not pay in full and on time
2. Person committed fraud
3. person surrender the policy

More or less the terms and condition off he top of my head in plain English.

The old one yes. Not guaranteed renewal. There's some changes mandate by BNM that all new insurance policy need to have guaranteed renewal. Of course company don't write guaranteed renewal but they mention the above terms and condition. There's no term and conditions if patient diagnosed with xyz disease, insurance shall be null and void.

I don't just depend on insurance alone. I practiced multiple approach
1. One meal a day, my next goal is 3 days fast a week.
2. Healthy food, no process food, no junk food, no carbs.
3. Exercise, minimal 5x/week
4. Sleep.
5. Proper supplements

If you can prevent diabetes you prevent a lot of other illness already (high blood pressure, heart attack, stroke, kidney disease, high cholesterol, some cancers).

Even if you got diabetes, high cholesterol, you can reverse it partially by fasting. Yes need to be consistent and for life. Fasting makes our body sensitive to insulin, which means less insulin to do the same job as someone with diabetes. With better insulin sensitivity, fat reduced, blood sugar also reduced, cholesterol also reduced, medications dosage reduced and maybe can stop (Malaysians doctor never dare to stop medications but I know some US specialist they take their patient off the meds and continue monitoring if everything cantik).

No money can buy back your health and time.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Aug 19 2023, 07:26 PM
gamenoob
post Aug 19 2023, 11:23 PM

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QUOTE(adele123 @ Aug 19 2023, 06:46 PM)

You can hope to stop paying at age 65, but the rate of medical inflation is no joke and when insurance company reprice your medical plan (historically once every few years), your planning may go out of whack. you should expect some increase every now and then, even if you super prepay alot in the accumulated cash balance. in theory what you say is do-able... but the prepayment may not be a small amount in reality that you may hesitate to do so.
No one can give you a real costing up to age 70/80, sadly. no one can't predict the future.


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Well, no one know how much COI will be in the future. One can only estimate and plan as much for it.

My prepayment may not be everyone cup of tea as I mentioned earlier my intent is pay ahead incase brain fart or circumstances that rendered I can't pay ontime, the cash balance will sustain it. Would be great if it can sustain longer but if not, then one just stay healthy and head to KKM.

I'm currently paying about double of my COI and hopefully by 65, it can last God know how long but not expecting anything back just hope it can last as long as possible. If the cash balance not adequate, my financial planning include the insurance premium budget until 90. Unless COI goes above 5x of current age, then KKM it is....

For the estimate cost of 80, I'm asking my agent to get me the current premium/coi of similar coverage as me for an existing insuree at 80yrs. Curious to see how bad it is.

Wedchar2912
post Aug 20 2023, 12:34 PM

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QUOTE(gamenoob @ Aug 19 2023, 11:23 PM)
Well, no one know how much COI will be in the future. One can only estimate and plan as much for it.

My prepayment may not be everyone cup of tea as I mentioned earlier my intent is pay ahead incase brain fart or circumstances that rendered I can't pay ontime, the cash balance will sustain it.  Would be great if it can sustain longer but if not, then one just stay healthy and head to KKM.

I'm currently paying about double of my COI and hopefully by 65, it can last God know how long but not expecting anything back  just hope it can last as long as possible. If the cash balance not adequate, my financial planning include the insurance premium budget until 90. Unless COI goes above 5x of current age, then KKM it is....

For the estimate cost of 80, I'm asking my agent to get me the current premium/coi of similar coverage as me for an existing insuree at 80yrs. Curious to see how bad it is.
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Not sure if you are aware of this. You can choose to make a big lump contribution into the ILP (the investment portion) later in your life, instead of increasing your payment now and invest yourself the difference. Just fees saved (the funds in ILP will charge the usual management fees etc, and my insurance funds' seem to be generating only around 3% pa return. too lazy to really calculate properly) may be significant enough.

That's my overall plan either way. I've earmarked up to extra 300K rm to throw into my ILP should I need to when I reach 60 years old.
gamenoob
post Aug 20 2023, 04:03 PM

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QUOTE(Wedchar2912 @ Aug 20 2023, 12:34 PM)
Not sure if you are aware of this. You can choose to make a big lump contribution into the ILP (the investment portion) later in your life, instead of increasing your payment now and invest yourself the difference. Just fees saved (the funds in ILP will charge the usual management fees etc, and my insurance funds' seem to be generating only around 3% pa return. too lazy to really calculate properly) may be significant enough.

That's my overall plan either way. I've earmarked up to extra 300K rm to throw into my ILP should I need to when I reach 60 years old.
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Will explore this. Thanks.

Yes the ilp portion do carry the spread difference which eatvinto the value thus reducing thebreturns/total nett value.
gashout
post Aug 29 2023, 12:58 PM

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we always talk about T1

we got the number now

https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia/202...es-rm161m/71679

In Malaysia, you just need RM2.2m in wealth to join top ‘one-percenter’ club unlike Singapore’s RM16.1m

KUALA LUMPUR, May 30 — How much do you need to be in the top 1 per cent of your country’s population in terms of wealth?

Just US$485,000 (or over RM2.2 million using today’s currency rates) in net wealth in Malaysia is all it takes for you to be categorised as the richest one per cent here, or to be richer than 99 per cent of the Malaysian population, according to property consultancy Knight Frank’s latest report.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Wedchar2912
post Aug 29 2023, 01:35 PM

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QUOTE(gashout @ Aug 29 2023, 12:58 PM)
we always talk about T1

we got the number now

https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia/202...es-rm161m/71679

In Malaysia, you just need RM2.2m in wealth to join top ‘one-percenter’ club unlike Singapore’s RM16.1m

KUALA LUMPUR, May 30 — How much do you need to be in the top 1 per cent of your country’s population in terms of wealth?

Just US$485,000 (or over RM2.2 million using today’s currency rates) in net wealth in Malaysia is all it takes for you to be categorised as the richest one per cent here, or to be richer than 99 per cent of the Malaysian population, according to property consultancy Knight Frank’s latest report.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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I wonder.... if one has RM 16.1 million (ie qualify to be T01 in SG), would it be better to retire in Klang Valley/Malaysia or retire in SG.

I vote KV smile.gif



wongmunkeong
post Aug 29 2023, 01:39 PM

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QUOTE(gashout @ Aug 29 2023, 12:58 PM)
we always talk about T1

we got the number now

https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia/202...es-rm161m/71679

In Malaysia, you just need RM2.2m in wealth to join top ‘one-percenter’ club unlike Singapore’s RM16.1m

KUALA LUMPUR, May 30 — How much do you need to be in the top 1 per cent of your country’s population in terms of wealth?

Just US$485,000 (or over RM2.2 million using today’s currency rates) in net wealth in Malaysia is all it takes for you to be categorised as the richest one per cent here, or to be richer than 99 per cent of the Malaysian population, according to property consultancy Knight Frank’s latest report.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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so low to be T1? maybe life is cheap (ie. throwaway discounted life) in MY? sweat.gif
gashout
post Aug 29 2023, 01:43 PM

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QUOTE(Wedchar2912 @ Aug 29 2023, 01:35 PM)
I wonder.... if one has RM 16.1 million (ie qualify to be T01 in SG), would it be better to retire in Klang Valley/Malaysia or retire in SG.

I vote KV  smile.gif
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KV ftw

I won't want to retire in Singapore


QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Aug 29 2023, 01:39 PM)
so low to be T1? maybe life is cheap (ie. throwaway discounted life) in MY?  sweat.gif
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Not everyone can achieve that, so I mean FIRE thread many wishing for 5 mil to retire, it's as if 99.5% of Malaysians won't be able to survive after retirement.

Life goes on.
Wedchar2912
post Aug 29 2023, 02:02 PM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Aug 29 2023, 01:39 PM)
so low to be T1? maybe life is cheap (ie. throwaway discounted life) in MY?  sweat.gif
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The stats when compared with DSOM's number...

T01 individual income is like 30K rm pm. 2.2 million is equivalent to 6 years of gross income.
If one is earning 30K, I would assume savings of 10K to 15K is fair.
So 2.2 million is 12 to 18 years worth savings.

Don't know if our life is too cheap or fair.... haha.
hksgmy
post Aug 29 2023, 02:38 PM

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QUOTE(gashout @ Aug 29 2023, 01:43 PM)
KV ftw

I won't want to retire in Singapore

Not everyone can achieve that, so I mean FIRE thread many wishing for 5 mil to retire, it's as if 99.5% of Malaysians won't be able to survive after retirement.

Life goes on.
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I agree with you. Australia is better for retirement - at least for me anyway.

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