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Philosophy Creativity, Are we seriously losing it?

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SUS4Atulan
post Oct 7 2009, 06:52 PM

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QUOTE(ZeratoS @ Oct 1 2009, 04:53 PM)
Quoted for the great truth! I miss my lego, but unfortunately they've gone missing. I'm pretty sure I had at least RM3000 worth of lego there..
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Lego is a tool to practice (hone) creativity. Lego itself does not teach creativity.
Awakened_Angel
post Oct 8 2009, 10:13 AM

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the question here is not about how school kill craetivity...

but can society accept craetivity?? when your boss ask you to do this, can he accept it when you propose something out of the box?

the fact here is this...... malaysia develope too fast.. faster than malaysian mindset... most of our mindset are still in 3rd world country...

we talk about going green but everyday malaysia practise wasteful lifestyle
SUS4Atulan
post Oct 8 2009, 12:52 PM

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Whether society accepts creativity, it's there. It's always there, in one form or another.

Creativity can be used in arts, or in military, or even in crime.

Put it in another way, if the society doesn't accept creativity "legally", creativity will then be channeled to boost illegal activities
TSZeratoS
post Oct 9 2009, 03:16 AM

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QUOTE(4Atulan @ Oct 8 2009, 12:52 PM)
Whether society accepts creativity, it's there. It's always there, in one form or another.

Creativity can be used in arts, or in military, or even in crime.

Put it in another way, if the society doesn't accept creativity "legally", creativity will then be channeled to boost illegal activities
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It exists, but does society squash it or nurture it. Here, in most cases its being squashed. When was the last time your biology teacher encouraged you to explore more on the subject and ask different questions?
azarimy
post Oct 9 2009, 08:02 AM

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there's a looming idea that some of u have touched, it just sits there, like a dog that's not barking. i'll highlight it for u:

creativity is a process.

society nowadays are more interested/focused on results. creativity produces results, sure enough. but creativity itself is not treated as a result. it's just a means to get the final result. what are the other means? well, imitation is one.

imitating is easier, faster and requires less effort. for example, u instruct ur students to do a painting based on a particular topic. a purely instinctive creativity would draw from experience, inward looking, and depends on his own ability to interpret. others might just go over the internet and find things that they see fit to solve the problem. these are two extremes. there's always those in between, but lets ignore that for a minute.

both produces results. but imitation produces results faster and easier. the teacher (you, the school, or society etc) is only interested that the student delivers. u cant measure creativity empirically. meaning all u have to be judged is the end product. there u will assume what creative process that the students have been through. but u will never know for sure. u're just ASSUMING.

this is the problem right now. creativity is such a bizarre activity that even the world's best expert is still arguing between them.

the society is focused on products. are we losing creativity? collectively, maybe. but we still revere in those few that are able to harness their powers. just look at the designers. society looks up to them. but try and figure out their creative process? u'll find that whatever u do, u just cant imitate them...

cool eh?
blind&deaf
post Oct 9 2009, 01:09 PM

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During my high school days, our artworks were simply evaluated as how many marks, or grade A,B,C,D. No comments at all. Ironically one of the art teachers likes to show us his works.
azarimy
post Oct 9 2009, 06:23 PM

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QUOTE(blind&deaf @ Oct 9 2009, 05:09 AM)
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During my high school days, our artworks were simply evaluated as how many marks, or grade A,B,C,D. No comments at all. Ironically one of the art teachers likes to show us his works.
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exactly.

but interestingly, in school we were taught that the more beautiful a painting we produce, the "higher" our creativity is valued. that is inaccurate, as creativity should be valued on the process of making.

for example, the simplest sense of creativity is on problem solving. lets say ur teacher gives u a problem: how to throw an egg from the 3rd floor without breaking it? so u and ur friends start to conjure up solutions creatively. i'll show u some solutions people usually come up, from the simplest to the more complex and finally to the most elegant:

i. bundle the egg in a huge amount of bubble-wrap to cushion the fall.
ii. increase air drag by parachuting the egg down.
iii. suspend the egg in a collapsible frame to absorb impact.

(can u see that the solutions are becoming more elaborate and creative? and finally...)

iv. stand on the 3rd floor, throw the egg slowly up and catch it back.

does the no. iv solution makes sense to u? biggrin.gif
SUS4Atulan
post Oct 9 2009, 06:34 PM

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QUOTE(azarimy @ Oct 9 2009, 09:02 AM)
creativity is a process.
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That is one way of looking at it.

Another way of looking at creativity is the "Ah huh!" moment. Somehow, somewhere, buried deep somewhere, is a gem of idea that makes the problem solves itself. Creativity by itself is illusive, you know it's there some where, but you can't captured it for display.

But I seriously doubt there is a systematic way of "creating / nurturing" creativity.

This post has been edited by 4Atulan: Oct 9 2009, 06:40 PM
TSZeratoS
post Oct 9 2009, 09:21 PM

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QUOTE(azarimy @ Oct 9 2009, 06:23 PM)
exactly.

but interestingly, in school we were taught that the more beautiful a painting we produce, the "higher" our creativity is valued. that is inaccurate, as creativity should be valued on the process of making.

for example, the simplest sense of creativity is on problem solving. lets say ur teacher gives u a problem: how to throw an egg from the 3rd floor without breaking it? so u and ur friends start to conjure up solutions creatively. i'll show u some solutions people usually come up, from the simplest to the more complex and finally to the most elegant:

i. bundle the egg in a huge amount of bubble-wrap to cushion the fall.
ii. increase air drag by parachuting the egg down.
iii. suspend the egg in a collapsible frame to absorb impact.

(can u see that the solutions are becoming more elaborate and creative? and finally...)

iv. stand on the 3rd floor, throw the egg slowly up and catch it back.

does the no. iv solution makes sense to u? biggrin.gif
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Actually it does, Solution IV is the ability to view something from an altogether different perspective. The problem posed said throw an egg FROM the 3rd floor. It did not mention in WHICH direction. Stereotypical thinking assumes that throwing an egg from x floor means it must go down, but have they ever contemplated of throwing it up? Sideways? No, people don't think like that anymore I am afraid.

It is the same as the question posed at the beginning.

What is ? < A question mark.

Can it be half a lightbulb? An inverse hook? Depends on how you view it wink.gif

This post has been edited by ZeratoS: Oct 9 2009, 09:23 PM
azarimy
post Oct 10 2009, 05:21 AM

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QUOTE(ZeratoS @ Oct 9 2009, 01:21 PM)
Actually it does, Solution IV is the ability to view something from an altogether different perspective. The problem posed said throw an egg FROM the 3rd floor. It did not mention in WHICH direction. Stereotypical thinking assumes that throwing an egg from x floor means it must go down, but have they ever contemplated of throwing it up? Sideways? No, people don't think like that anymore I am afraid.

It is the same as the question posed at the beginning.

What is ? < A question mark.

Can it be half a lightbulb? An inverse hook? Depends on how you view it wink.gif
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glad somebody got it wink.gif.

i teach 1st year architecture, one of the most creativity-dependent courses in the world. some might say fine-art is the most creative course, but architecture depends on creativity to solve problems. harnessing the ability for practical uses. since our society does pay much attention to creativity, breaking that mindset is one of the most challenging thing i've ever done.
blind&deaf
post Oct 11 2009, 04:55 PM

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Unfortunately I am already one of those who blindly follow the stereotypical way. user posted image
ffnbnj
post Oct 11 2009, 06:36 PM

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most ads on tv today r too dull,
yes, creativity is lacking
azarimy
post Oct 11 2009, 08:00 PM

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QUOTE(ffnbnj @ Oct 11 2009, 10:36 AM)
most ads on tv today r too dull,
yes, creativity is lacking
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that's not bcoz of lack of creativity.

it's bcoz u've grown and matured and have become more exposed to more things that u were before. the more things u see, the less impressed u become. go back 10 years ago, there are more things that impresses u on TV than today. and go forward 10 years, u'll see that there will be even lesser things impressing u than today.
silverhawk
post Oct 15 2009, 01:17 AM

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QUOTE(azarimy @ Oct 10 2009, 05:21 AM)
glad somebody got it wink.gif.

i teach 1st year architecture, one of the most creativity-dependent courses in the world. some might say fine-art is the most creative course, but architecture depends on creativity to solve problems. harnessing the ability for practical uses. since our society does pay much attention to creativity, breaking that mindset is one of the most challenging thing i've ever done.
*

I have great respect for architects smile.gif Mostly because its a beautiful marriage between artistic creativity and practical engineering.

That said, in regards to creativity being a process. Let me share a little story smile.gif

QUOTE
“Describe how to determine the height of a skyscraper with a barometer.”

One student replied: “You tie a long piece of string to the neck of the barometer, then lower the barometer from the roof of the skyscraper to the ground. The length of the string plus the length of the barometer will equal the height of the building.”

This highly original answer so incensed the examiner that the student was failed immediately. The student appealed on the grounds that his answer was indisputably correct, and the university appointed an independent arbiter to decide the case.

The arbiter judged that the answer was indeed correct, but did not display any noticeable knowledge of physics. To resolve the problem it was decided to call the student in and allow him six minutes in which to provide a verbal answer which showed at least a minimal familiarity with the basic principles of physics.

For five minutes the student sat in silence, forehead creased in thought.

The arbiter reminded him that time was running out, to which the student replied that he had several extremely relevant answers, but couldn’t make up his mind which to use. On being advised to hurry up the student replied as follows:

“Firstly, you could take the barometer up to the roof of the skyscraper, drop it over the edge, and measure the time it takes to reach the ground. The height of the building can then be worked out from the formula H = 0.5g x t squared. But bad luck on the barometer.” “Or if the sun is shining you could measure the height of the barometer, then set it on end and measure the length of its shadow. Then you measure the length of the skyscraper’s shadow, and thereafter it is a simple matter of proportional arithmetic to work out the height of the skyscraper.” “But if you wanted to be highly scientific about it, you could tie a short piece of string to the barometer and swing it like a pendulum, first at ground level and then on the roof of the skyscraper. The height is worked out by the difference in the gravitational restoring force T = 2 pi sq root (l/g).”

“…or if the skyscraper has an outside emergency staircase, it would be easier to walk up it and mark off the height of the skyscraper in barometer lengths, then add them up.” “If you merely wanted to be boring and orthodox about it, of course, you could use the barometer to measure the air pressure on the roof of the skyscraper and on the ground, and convert the difference in millibars into feet to give the height of the building.”

“But since we are constantly being exhorted to exercise independence of mind and apply scientific methods, undoubtedly the best way would be to knock on the janitor’s door and say to him ‘If you would like a nice new barometer, I will give you this one if you tell me the height of this skyscraper’.”
TSZeratoS
post Oct 15 2009, 02:01 AM

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Loved the share silver. Where did you get it, might I inquire?
silverhawk
post Oct 16 2009, 04:14 PM

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QUOTE(ZeratoS @ Oct 15 2009, 02:01 AM)
Loved the share silver. Where did you get it, might I inquire?
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Read it long ago, can't remember where exactly, I remember the story, so I just googled for the keywords laugh.gif
SUS4Atulan
post Oct 22 2009, 02:42 PM

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QUOTE(ffnbnj @ Oct 11 2009, 07:36 PM)
most ads on tv today r too dull,
yes, creativity is lacking
*
The ads on TV are designed specifically for their targeted audiences.

If the targetted audience is creative, they will design the ad with a lot of creative juice, but if the audience can not handle creativity, he would never understand the meaning of that creative ad, and the vendor will end up losing money on the ad campaign.

That says much for the type of audience Malaysians generally are, doesn't it?

This post has been edited by 4Atulan: Oct 22 2009, 02:43 PM
yltanisaac
post Oct 22 2009, 05:06 PM

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QUOTE(4Atulan @ Oct 22 2009, 02:42 PM)
That says much for the type of audience Malaysians generally are, doesn't it?
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I couldn't agree more.

Basically, franchised companies in Malaysia seem to like reusing ads that from overseas. Dumping them to english/malay/mandarin. It does send out a message how "creative" we have become.


TSZeratoS
post Nov 1 2009, 03:03 AM

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QUOTE(yltanisaac @ Oct 22 2009, 05:06 PM)
I couldn't agree more.

Basically, franchised companies in Malaysia seem to like reusing ads that from overseas. Dumping them to english/malay/mandarin. It does send out a message how "creative" we have become.
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That is, after all, the way Malaysians do things. apa pun boleh. Keeping this up only hinders growth, not to mention the current state of ads are beyond ridiculous.
Awakened_Angel
post Nov 1 2009, 09:06 AM

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QUOTE(ZeratoS @ Nov 1 2009, 04:03 AM)
That is, after all, the way Malaysians do things. apa pun boleh. Keeping this up only hinders growth, not to mention the current state of ads are beyond ridiculous.
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ahaha.. but i prefer thailand ads... watching their ads is way much better than watching their show... makes me LMAO and say.. like this also can

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