I don't think opinions play any role here. You must deliver fact with concrete proofs to back it. Opinion remains an opinion.

so we can discuss about God and religion and the origin of life but suddenly the theory of NWO is too heavy? This topic will get the same treatment as the others you need to give reasons and evidence to support your claims and other will give theirs to challenge it.

I won't simply accept "We know about these thing but we can't tell you because you just won't understand". You will tell us what you think, we will question them, you will answer.

basically everything that derives us from practising our religious customs are the works of this secret societies and it's associates so we could be misled from our main objective to our religion..

i learnt about this during my uni days (could you believe it was a compulsory subject) LOL.

Read The International Jew, went to download the Protocols of Zion, went to a LOT of sites all claiming conspiracy.

Am not convinced.

that is so true... but there are people who simply dismiss it even before they started reading the 1st sentence of the topic. that's not worth of a debate with these kind of people..

but it's true because this subject is very religious than most people think (eg: Illuminati is not the work of the human alone), so I have to be very careful about writing something I BELIEVE in...

Reality or Conspiracy Theory?

more can be read from.. many articles with facts... etc

http://www.futurefastforward.com

its a website by Mathias Chang, former Political Secretary of Dr Mahathir..

this is what they are afraid of

true.. it all goes back to the story of free masons, iluminati and aso lucifer...

and basically if you know nothing about religion, you won't know what is right and what is wrong.

okay so what will they gain if we are distracted from our religion. And do they attack certain religion only or all religions?

For me, as a Muslim, the illuminati (secret societies & satan) would want to misled us so we could forget our main purpose of living (eg: to devot our life according to Islam's customs), so they could bring with them as many as possible to hell after the end of days. This is all stated in the Quran and Hadith.

BUT, if you watch the videos Conspiritus or other similar sibject, even if the creator of the videos didn't even mention Islam in it, it pretty much leading to the same conclusion. Example, the video said the Illuminati are preparing for 'the coming', that they have prepared a large sum of black coffin. That practically means, in Islam, that 'the coming' is actually the coming of Dajjal Besar (the anti-christ) to misled the entire world. One of the sign of Dajjal is 'it is a one-eyed creature'. Remember, the Illuminati logo is a one-eye over a pyramid. it's even printed on the US dollar..

I strongly suggest you watch the COnspiritus video and othe similar one concerning the subject. I would also like to suggest Zeitgeist Final Edition...

a lot of atheists live normally just like people with religions. according to this opinion of yours, all these people without religions should already be out on a killing spree because they don't have religion telling them that murder is wrong. I believe even without religion telling us stealing is wrong, a human still can know it's wrong just because you won't like it if others did it to you.

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Added on August 4, 2009, 12:32 pmSo these people know for sure that religion (let's say Islam for example) is the truth? I understand satan would try to misled us as he is already doomed but these humans, these Illuminati, you mean they know for sure that Islam is the truth and they are working for satan to get satan more friends in hell in the end when they are human and are not forced into hell. why did they do that? if they know for sure that satan (since they are personally working for him) and their followers (including themselves) will end up in hell, why did they still do it?

i know many people who don't believe in religion or those with religion but do bad because they are not sure that it's really the truth (since there are no proof that god exists and all). but you are saying these guys meet satan himself, know that satan is wrong and Islam is right, FOR SURE, and instead of going to do good (since they know for sure that Islam is true, unlike others who have never seen prove of it like meeting satan) they try to recruit more people to throw in hell along with themself? where is the sense in that?

do tell.

This post has been edited by Shadow Kun: Aug 4 2009, 12:32 PM

You are preaching about Islam like you are praying 5 times a day !

This post has been edited by am_eniey: Aug 4 2009, 12:34 PM

Great observation!! after watching the videos of Conspiritus, I asked the same question to y friends if does REALLY the Satan worked with the illuminaties DIRECTLY or within unconcious mind. But the worship of satan or the evil spirit is all well documented for thousands of years, and that could be one of the way.

Because I've never heard before in my life any Ustaz or Ulama talking about Satan working TOGETHER with the Illuminaties, so I cannot directly answer that yet. All we know is that since the creation of human, the Satan & evil will always misled us from the right path until the end of time so they can bring with them to hell, BUT we never know wether Satan did combine with human(illuminaties) to misled the believers(other human beings)..

But what do I believe is, since the other holy book before Quran has different kinds of interpretation & 'versions', the Quran remains the same, incorruptable since the day of it's completion. You may not agree, but this is what I believe...

This post has been edited by diwant: Aug 4 2009, 12:46 PM

Hell is created not just for the devil/satan, it's for the human too including to those who are muslims.

yes of course. that was also documented..

please don't masukkan unsur-unsur agama.

Being anti-christ is just part of their agenda.

Their main agenda is global governance and global treasury. They use lucifer to 'glorify' or strengthen the organization. It's like kongsi gelap, if u simply find 1 d*** become ketua kongsi gelap, sure no pahwer and influenec rite? But if u get people like *ahem C4* be kongsi gelap head, the organization itself will have the instant 'status' and 'recognition' at least the follower know their head is "SOMEONE PAHWERFUL"

Anyway, do u know that China and Japan has formed their own secret government to go against this Zionist as well? They are both having war 'secretly' .. look at the earthquakes in china and jap... *HAARP* then the story about China sub suddenly penetrate US navy in South China Sea...

to us commoner they tell us it's just a co-incident.. and we accept it.... but the real deal is actually something bigger and only those amerikan and chinese officials know...

Okay either way, whether satan told the illuminatis to do work for him, or indirectly does so, these Illuminates knows for sure that they will end up in hell and suffer greatly if they keep on doing these evil work since they know the Islam is the truth, disobeying Islam will make you end up in hell. Since they believe in Islam and know what is the consequence of not practicing it, instead of using the huge effort to worship the true God Allah and guarantee a seat up in heaven, they still want to do the otherwise. Do these guys really prefer hell than heaven? They really want to get themselves burned alive over and over again rather than the best kind of life you can get in heaven? You mean these guys enjoys getting tortured?

Because all others that does bad intentionally (not like stealing because of hunger for example), do so because they don't believe that they are God who will punish them for it. But these guys knows for sure that God is real and will kick their asses into hell, but still, they put a lot of effort to get their ass kicked, and even get friends to join them. Again, where is the sense in that?

i reply for the bold sentence:
1. eventually this topic will fall into the religious path.
2. I would like to know the source of your knowledge regarding China & Japan's secret war
3. That is what MOST of our people believe in, but there are always the others who believe otherwise


Than u have to ask "why these people worship the spirit?" I'm afraid. MAYBE the illuminaties were told by satan that he himself is God and they believe it. That could be one of the factor. But you never know what are they actually thinking unless you become one of them. But one thing for sure, in current world right now, whatever they do behind the scene, the reward they got is world domination. Isn't that a convincing enough proof that they really believe in their cause?

The answer is for you to find out. Like I said, it's down to religious belief.

This post has been edited by diwant: Aug 4 2009, 01:14 PM

google the arrivals via youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le_ySMrOkFU

This is a discussion...not debate....Fact is telling what it is and truth is telling how it should be...I do agree fact with concrete proofs is important but dont u think is way too excessive in an open-minded discussion??....Discussion is about sharing or construct mind together to research something...If we know something, would it still call research or discussion??

Life is a process of experience than procedur ...i believed we alll here to seek meaning than to prove something...addition, this topic is not about science