in my opinion, people do this 5 steps unconsciously. i mean, this is just a transition from a friend status to in-relationship status.

You poor thing. Let her know how you feel la. Still puzzles me why people only have one single perception about letting someone know how you feel by terming it as "confession". The question is not to do or not to do. It is how and when you do it.

I would start but making unmistakable signals. Ask her out, when she says yes, reply "ok, its a date !" Study her reaction. If reaction is positive then continue it. From time to time remind her about not forgetting your date this coming etc... This will slowly sink in. When you guys have been going on for months and she feels comfortable with you, thenlet her know your feelings. I say let her know, not ask her to give you a rely. Just let her know, smile and change the topic or walk away to the fridge or something. Don't put her in the spot. You will get your reply when she is ready.

Sorry to disrupt ... I couldn't help but chuckled.
What lostmymemories meant was subconsciously ... I know not of anyone who could gain a bf or gf while sleeping or pengsan. (Don't reference the movie While You Were Sleeping, those who are thinking about it).
Srsly tho, yeah ... some don't need to lay out each step-by-step, their relationship just smoothly progress from friend to couple. Some however, need guidance due to whatever reason, mostly lack of confidence or clarity of mind while infatuated.

I kinda agree with n00b more; but for every rules, there are bound to be exceptions.
Guenhwyvar might not be willing to spend more time than necessary to get confirmation. If his target said no, then he thinks at least he can back to his normal life, get over her, or start a new courtship. This is just a guess, but usually a guy that wanted to confess and not patiently go thru the 5-steps, don't think that there's only 1 girl meant for him, there are plenty....or he knows that there are other 'competitors', so he want to push for answers. The danger that n00b is trying to point out from his previous posts are; if confessed, the girl is kinda given an ultimatum ... want or don't want? In the state of unsureness, high chances are the girl will say no, coz not certain mah. N00b's 5-steps wanna prevent that kind of forced confession; when the guy and girl are ready for transition from friend status to couple status, most if not all 5 steps would be clear, the signs will naturally be there, and no awkward confession is required.

I think, guys are more wired to linear tasks and couldn't help but get something done with in order to proceed to another; girls, are generally of better multi-tasking nature, they could juggle many things at once. So, can't really blame guys who wanted to confess to girls who are still 'dragging' while trying to find their best current option.
Then again, some girls will easily accept confessions, coz maybe they just wanna be in a relationship, serious or just for fun. Guys who have heard that happened to their friends, thought that dramatic confession as seen in movies, can emotionally moved the hearts of girls, and in a short-cut way, ta-da ... got a gf already. Confession is akin to a fictional romance film, as the 5-step is to a documentary.

I believe though, those who are here to seek n00b's help, aren't trying to be in a relationship for fun only ... they're trying to win the heart of potential life partner. In that case, the 5-steps are quite obvious and dare I say, a pre-requisite to long lasting relationship, as compared to a fickle spur-of-the-moment confession.

But I think by now, she should know that I'm interested in her after so many dates. But until now she hasn't say anything about my status.

So who is the man here? You expect her to make the first move and declare her love for you or are you going to be the one to do it first?
Not willing to take risks ?

Interesting point. True, dramatic confessions are stuff of fiction.
Are you familiar with the term of "putting the ball in his/her court" ? Girls are masters in this game. However guys suck at it. Lets do an analogy. For the sake of discussion.

In a game of poker between a guy and a girl.

- the blind and rash action of a spill-your-guts confession would be like surrendering all of the guys chips to the girl right at the start of the game. The girl think, where is the fun in that ? Lose situation.
- the blind and rash action of a grab and kiss her move would be like the guy grabbing all of the girl's chips at the start of the game. Not fun at all might piss the girl off. Lose situation.
- the fun in the game is there is a back and forth exchange. Both parties make their move. Maybe that's where The Five comes in. Sometimes you have to up the stakes. Make a big bluff and she if she is willing to meet your challenge. That's the fun in poker.

So in real life, from time to time you have to up the stakes. See if she meets all your call. If she does, then you are gonna be a happy man. If she keeps folding then you got your answer. Not need of dramatic confession. The problem with dramatic confession is that it lacks emotional connection.

Girls are subtle. When you make you raise your stake, like letting her know its a date, this send her alarm bells rigging. She be thinking "OMG he is asking me out on a date" and there is be like a whole lot of emotional flurry and butterflies in her stomach". There is where you create emotional connections. Makes her remember or obsess about you. Then the ball is at her court. She meet you call then good for you. If she is not interested then she folds and will give you a polite refuse. You are her to hang out or yum-cha, then it is a meh situation. Not much thought given to it and no emotional connection. You get confusing signals.

As this progresses you need to make the stakes bigger. Example if she buys you a gift tell "this is so awesome. I think i'm falling for you (with a grin)". If you pull this of with confidence, you send the ball in her court again and see if she meets your challenge. Was it a joke or was it for real? It will send a frenzy of emotions and chemical reactions take place. There is your emotional chemistry. If she is not into you, by now she would back out and end the game without embarrassment because the ball is in her court.

Once you have won most of her chips then you make the one last big call to make her bet all her chips. Let her know that you like her. With the ball in her court see how she plays it. You can still lose if you make a big mistake and surrender all your chips at this point. Poker and romance, need a lot of confidence and risk taking. That's why iin this game the confident guy mostly wins.

This post has been edited by killdavid: Sep 15 2012, 07:23 AM

err...in the end still need to confess rite...

I like that analogy.
A special courtship move would send an ace (a strong signal) into the girl's court; and if the girl felt uncomfortable, she won't return it (let it go off court/silence/letting you know how much you mean as a friend/friendzoned), or she'll delay the answer coz she herself is confused / needs time to consider, or even worse ... she'll play around with the ball/card while waiting for better players. The guy need to observe the response and react accordingly. In any case, a confession wouldn't make the situation any better.
Most guys might equate a confession to risk taking ... I'll say that's just the easiest way ... the harder way is holding off the confession, going out of your way to make her happy (raising your stakes as killdavid puts it), and see if her heart could be moved or not. There's much more 'investment' involved, and hence the return should be either equally rewarding or more 'depressing' than the energy/time/money/emotion involved in confessing. Not a 'game' for the weak hearts ; some understood the risk, not willing to face any loss, they are content with whoever suitable comes along; some aim for who they think they want, not willing to settle yet for who they might really need ... they're willing for all-in.
And yeah, definitely confidence is a major advantage ... or put on a poker face (just kidding).

Nevermind, some guys need to experience rejections 1st hand before learning what not to do.

The main point from this thread, after various explanations by n00b, is that confession is the least of things to be worried about in a courtship. After a guy has done everything he could've done within his limit and means, when the response is positive, a confession is just like a formality (some couples I guess don't even remember a definite moment when they became one, it just came naturally and progressively); when the girl doesn't react as expected, use common sense and analyze the situation further, don't lower your already low chances by doing a confession.

Yeah killdavid, that's why I'm gonna take the risk and up my stakes. Can't be dragging too long right?

he caught the best analogy n expression n meaning....

I did 1st step.. Sometimes she would smile, sometimes no.. ,sometimes she looks at other place, sometimes i look down when we are walking on each other way.. Dunwan her to notice me im always looking at her.. She might think im pervert or wht..

But i nver talk to her., bcause she was never alone, always with her friends.. Demm..
If she alone i have more courage.. But i dunno what to talk.. Everytime i talked to girls.. The conversation will be like dead after 3-5mins.. In my mind only games or football which they are not interested.. - can teach me on this

Well, don't just assume she's not interested. Plenty of girls play video games or watch football nowadays. Ask her about the last BPL match and you might just be surprised.

She seems doesnt knterested in football..but dunno never ask yet
Bcause most of the girls i talked to.. They have no interest.. If got also they are man u fans.. Lol
And they really dont know much bout football makes me feel lazy to talk bout it..They just act like they do know..maybe just to layan me dunno lol..
For games..they only play phones games.. Which im also not interest
Talking bout football n games is only good with guys..

Any other topic to suggest??

This post has been edited by playxboxwii: Sep 18 2012, 12:46 PM

Well, even if you're not a Man U fan, why can't you talk football with a Man U fan? At least there's a common interest there. And again, you'd be surprised how knowledgeable girls can be about football, even if it's just about Man U.

Same goes for games. If they play phone games, ask them about their phone games, then maybe suggest a console or PC game they might enjoy. A good conversation is one where you share the things you love with her, because you also want her to share the things she loves with you.

.. I did that for games.. Some of it that pretend they are interested in gaming.. All those gedik2 types which i dont like..

Nvm will try again. Thanks
Btw .. I dunno la .. Actually i got body prob..too fat.. Which i think is worst than face prob??
Face i dunno..my fren said i will be good looking if im thin..
But tried many years., i will giveup after 1month..

I got another idea...
Why not cut the chase grab a copy of cosmo and join the ladies with their topic just to start the ball rolling...

---

Added on September 18, 2012, 9:14 pmFat is not the only problem...
The real problem is what makes u fat n the complication comes later...

This post has been edited by RUI: Sep 18 2012, 09:14 PM

Because there is no woman on earth who does not read Cosmo, right?

Just like there is no woman on Earth who does not play phone games and does not know about Man U, right?

What I meant was read up abit on hottest female topic to initiate a conversation. Since, the topic/content of cosmopolitan/female oriented magazine suppose to attract women; chances of striking a topic that gets her attention is better than talking about something completely irrelevent(e.g. phone games/football) to her.

Anyway, it's just a suggestion. Arguing if women reads cosmopolitan is stupid anyway.

I really want to see you go up to a girl and say "Hey, have you tried the new Lancome Tonique Comfort Rehydrating Toner?"

No, I won't. Just like how I won't walk up to a girl and ask what her highest score playing snake nor who scored the last goal for Man U.

I mean go read up. Be knowledgeable even in women's topic. At least, it's easier for you to join their girlish talk even if she answered "No, I never played any phone games especially snake!" with your first attempt.