after one smart alec came another, I'm not here to sell diamond if you;re that blind.

I'm here to help those who want to buy diamond.

If you say diamond is worthless, then to you it is worthless lo, your mom leave you diamond you can give to me , but the fact remain no matter how you try to convince the world it is worthless but you still cannot go out to the world and buy a 1 carat diamond for RM100 can you? because majority of the people on planet earth thinks otherwise and this is demand and supply. If the market says and willing to pay RM40k for a 1 carat diamond that will be the price and its value.

Some people buy a projector for RM100k
some people pay a CDplayer for RM100k
Some peopel even buy a power cord for RM20k

so long they're buyer that will be the value, nothing you can do....whine all you want to.


, can we buy the koh-i-noor for RM1k? do you think the Queen of england wanna sell for that price?

enlighten me about hardwood timber please. I wanna know more.

This post has been edited by moorish: Apr 27 2009, 07:23 PM

Exactly, that is not the purpose of buying the diamond. So why bother mentioning it at all? When sales people say that, its to give you an extra justification for the cost of the product you're going to buy. The perception of an investment increases its perceived value and thus the higher price. This is incredibly dishonest. Am I wrong to educate people on this? Is it wrong for me to point this fact out to people?

What is even more amazing is that so far, moorish has been talking about how well you can resell the stones, but when I ask for information of reselling, THERE IS NOTHING. Why is that? Her narrow mind is only capable of thinking that I'm talking something negative about diamonds, so that must mean I don't like diamonds and will never buy them. Thus I'm totally irrelevant to her. How damn immature. Would you agree that such information is equally important to people looking for diamonds whether to buy them 2nd hand or to sell off their current ones.


Price and value are linked, you can't separate one from the other. You don't think they controlled the value? They started the "diamonds are forever" marketing campaign and revived a dying industry. Do you know the history of the diamond cartel? Read up on it Its very interesting, and if you're in business its a great example why women are always the best target market


Without their incredible marketing campaign, I doubt diamonds would be as prevalent as they are today. Its still a pretty stone, but it would be a lot cheaper. I'm not against the stone itself, just the general misconception of what diamonds really are. If this topic is really about educating people about diamonds, they deserve to know more than just a sales pitch.


I'll be sure to find a partner who isn't so superficial


Not the same composition?
What do you think separates a natural diamond from a synthetic one? How do you think the light refracts in a diamond? By the powers of underground gnomes? Take a class in science, there's A LOT you need to learn

Yes that is true. But why are you comparing diamonds with gold and oil? Why not compare it to art or watches. Then you are comparing apples with apples. I dont think moorish or anyone here have implied that diamonds have any economical usage. It is an ornament. And THAT IS IT. You can resell it if the need arise but other than that it is just a shiny piece of stone.

Yes its price have been severely over inflated, but then there are people paying US57 milion for an eight cm tall limestone sclupture - The Guennol Lioness. What do you call that? THese are prices that so called valuers give to something seemingly useless stone that have no value except percieve value. How about paying US140million for Pollock art? Which i might add has no artistic value except the concept of kinetic art. It takes no artistic talent to create that piece of work. Just"drips" or "splatter" of paint on a canvas. I think this would be a better comparison. Ornament to ornament.

As your arguement on diamonds financing wars, I can assure you oil have push more countries to war than diamonds. Think of how many wars have started because of that? perhaps you should think of that when you pump petrol?

Supply and Demand. Anything of financial value is being played by someone in power- think crude oil, gold, stock markets, etc. Diamonds are no different.



This post has been edited by Bishop: Apr 27 2009, 08:50 PM

this i want to know, how much?
triple ex?the diamond itself should cost about... i'll take a wild guess... RM7k-ish?

Carat club ain't cheap... but they give quality compared to the other shops that i've went to...

1. Moorish started the comparison
2. Moorish said it makes a good investment
3. Moorish continues the myth of "diamonds are forever".

As I said, very one sided information. I know its just an ornamental piece of stone, but she's trying to portray it otherwise and anyone who disagrees with her is an idiot because she's been in the industry and knows better than all of us I was really hoping for a proper discussion with some good information coming from her.

how are man-made diamonds different from natural occuring ones?
they are still carbon with the same crystalline structure so the refraction index will be the same thus cuts that are available for natural ones will be available for man-made ones as well

She has a very simplistic and socially accepted view of the matter. That is the industry that she is in and to be a good sales person you need to have faith in your product. So challaging her on it, again is moot.

2. To her as long as the object inflate in price over time hence initial investment have grown. Therefore good. To her defence she said you can sell it should you need cash. Dont think she meant it as an investment.

3. Diamonds are forever. Takes carbon to become diamond in many many thousands/million(?) of years to form and it is still the hardest element known to man. So theoritically it is "forever"

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Added on April 27, 2009, 10:03 pmYes triple X. Got it for less than RM10K . It is not their love diamond. If you get their love diamond it cost about 30% more. Just for the branding/engraving and cert.

Went to a few shops, they started quoting at RM11-13K for a half carat. Most of them are just VS and F or G colour.



This post has been edited by Bishop: Apr 27 2009, 10:03 PM

WAS She's not doing it any more it seems?
So even you agree her views on it are rather simplistic


She was talking about how 400 became 4000, or how in 20 years it can become 50-100% more in value. I pointed out she didn't take inflation into consideration, but she seems to be ignoring it and continuing with her 400 - 4000 figures.


Hardest doesn't mean much. Hardest just means the diamond is hard to be scratched, but diamonds break easily. In that sense they're rather fragile. Not to mention your diamond loses its value once its damaged, so in that sense, diamonds really aren't forever.

sorry my bad, thought you were referring to CZ or mozzies.

They actually are making real diamonds in the lab. Millions of years reduced to 4 days (saw it in Discovery)

yups... googling it... although i read they have higher traces of nitrogen and thus slightly yellowish... of course it could be an outdated article.

TS, ur topic reminds me of a James Bond movie

ooo. diamonds.

my favourite so far, n the one n only is from tiffanys and co.




LUCIDA.

Nice information here.
Pls keep it up Hawkie and Bishop.
I would really like to know more about it.
Thx

diamonds worth investing? yes, if it makes your significant other happy then it is priceless. other than that it is an over-rated, over-priced stone. now can we switch topics please?

I'm comparing diamonds with gold and oil because Moorish made that comparison earlier. When you brought up "supply and demand" I assumed you also believed that diamonds are governed by the same market forces that govern gold prices, oil, or even the stock exchange.

My assertion is that diamonds are NOT the same with gold and oil because diamonds do not have a useful economic life by comparison, and it's prices are not governed by the same markets and legislated means of exchanges that commodities are. You know this.

Diamonds versus watches and art is a better comparison, but for one thing.

Artists and watchmakers are not as horribly exploited as the miners and people in diamond producing African countries, who have to live under dictatorships financed by the diamond industry, and work hazardous duty in mines owned by the diamond cartel, often as slaves, and with slave earnings.

The majority of them do not live and work under conditions of extreme poverty, brutality and social collapse that diamond workers in Africa do.

But I guess that because according to you, oil causes warfare too (care to give examples? We can compare notes. I know a bit of oil history), and "Anything of financial value is being played by someone in power- think crude oil, gold, stock markets, etc.", that makes it okay.

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Added on April 28, 2009, 2:15 amSo if your significant other needs to sodomize you vigorously with a spiked strap-on to be happy, then that is priceless too?

Nice investment standards you have there buddy.

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Added on April 28, 2009, 2:23 amInteresting. Can we get a definitive answer for this too?

This post has been edited by Dickson Poon: Apr 28 2009, 02:26 AM

There are different types of manmade diamonds, the best one I've read so far is Moissanite, can't find is in Malaysia though, really curious to know if what's stated online is really true...

As everything else in this world, there's always a difference between something u get from nature with something that is manmade/cultured/bred...no?

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Added on April 28, 2009, 8:09 amHaha, sorry:p
Lost touch ofdiamond prices

I've compared gia and their love diamond side by side before, that's why I chose the latter, maybe cos my rock was only 0.3cts

Thanks for the price update

This post has been edited by kenji1903: Apr 28 2009, 08:09 AM

I believe the inclusion have different particle and yes according to industry expert it looks different under the scope and it carries a yellowish tinge. If it is as good as it claims it would've storm the market edi, what is keeping it off I'm not sure. Reports I read from google always says it is same as diamond but I've yet to see a certificate report of a synthetic diamond that reads D color, so really I'm not sure until I see the real thing.



Someone else brought this up...not me.

We brought in C4 Moissanite in year 2001, but this stone phailed in most market, when you put the stone side by side with real diamond it carries a greenish tinge. It hits a 9.5 on the diamond test meters.

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Added on April 28, 2009, 9:46 amTo say diamond is an over price thing is true and false, sometimes the price is high when the market pushes it up, sometimes when demand is slow the prices goes down.

You need a huge investment to set up a diamond mine, among all the gemstone mined, diamond has the most sophisticated proper setup. And another factor, a lot of diamond mine are found in hostile places so accessing them is not easy.

If anyone think Debeer is good, it is not that way, Debeer is far sighted and saw that diamond will be widely accepted because it can be cut and polish to such a beautiful stone with nothing else comparable, it is infact a very unique gemstone, what else can you replace diamond with? sapphire? emerald? Ruby? those are difficult to standardize.

If Debeer is that good as some of you claim why didnt they even consider monopolizing other colored stones?

Diamond suits all age group, from teenager to grandmothers, where other colored stones are more suitable for the mature ladies.

Diamond can go along with any dressing of any color, especially wedding gown.

Diamond is pure and colorless so it made sense to promote them as proposal ring, I'm not even sure if debeer is the one who started this.

If you think Debeer inflate diamond prices then why are other uncontrolled gemstones prices still beyond most of our reaches? Look at sapphire and ruby, it is like buying lottery to the novice, its is all out market with no control. And the prices of these stones are climbing steeply this pass 40 years.

And yes they're easily mine with extremely low tech, if you go Thailand, cambodia, vietnam these stones are selling like pasar malam.




This post has been edited by moorish: Apr 28 2009, 09:46 AM

The recent Iraq war was oil motivated. or do you believe the bullshit about freedom and human rights?


"Anything of financial value is being played by someone in power- think crude oil, gold, stock markets, etc.", that makes it okay.

Note I didnt say it was ok, I just made a neutral statement that is all. That is the way our world works. You can accept it or deny it.

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Added on April 28, 2009, 9:55 amBeen there done that, it was a priceless experience, although i wouldnt repeat it again anytime soon...

Well my "buddy", you obviously have not made your significant one happy before... (heaven on earth )

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Added on April 28, 2009, 10:02 amThey are actually identical except for the engraving of the love diamond and their buy back policy. If you dont intend to sell it then you can save the money. (my ex staff used to work there)



This post has been edited by Bishop: Apr 28 2009, 10:02 AM

Tiffany diamond rings are woman magnet.... I would love to get one too