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Serious Diamonds are forever, The most romantic stones

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TSmoorish
post Apr 23 2009, 12:01 PM, updated 17y ago

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QUOTE
Plenty of girls/guys do not know much about diamond, why some are expensive why some are cheap, why tiffany diamond cost twice as much as poh kong? am I conned? am I conned by my bf?

I was involve in Diamond wholesale since 2000, I can share quite a few things even tho am a bit rusty but I think should be reliable.

poll ends tomoro 11am, if yes then we shall create a thread all about diamonds, BTW voting the no3 option is consider spoiled vote rclxms.gif


Every girl looks forward to the day when they are surprise by the love of their life with a tiny red velvet box, opened and you will be mesmerized by the glittering play of fire, luster from the most romantic stones set in a ring of precious metal. For this ring is the beginning of the sacred matrimony, the promised of commitment, and the day to be remember for as long as you live.

However the guy goes through a ton of confusion, as most guy knows near zero of the complication of buying a diamond, a diamond is near as complicated as the girl they want to live with. I hope this thread will be helpful and give you better understanding.

Diamonds are complicated with too many criteria to scrutinize, just a single pinhead inclusion viewable only with an 10X magnifier could plunge its value from a few hundred to thousands. This thread purpose is to help prospect diamond customer to better understand the value and diamond itself before buying that precious stone for your proposal ring.

I was in the gemstone wholesale industry since 2000, but had stopped trading diamonds since 2004 and dealt with other custume jewellerys, I'll share with you as much as I know and tho a bit rusty, since gemstone industry progress pretty fast with all kind of synthetic and fake duplicating technology coming up every year. However most of the knowledge is still pretty useful.

Diamonds are graded with a 10X magnifier/loop, you can see more inclusion (inperfection/foreign particle) with a greater magnifier eg 20X or a microscope but that wont be included in the grading report. So whatever seen with a 10X loop is all that matters to the value of your stone.

There is the famous 4Cs to value, mainly Cut, clarity, color and carat.

Cut

Cut is the most important criteria, which unfortunately the certificate tells us very little about, there is still too much space and loopholes to play around. Cut is also the make or break of a diamond. A 58 facet and 90 over facet cut can have a huge difference in fire and lustre. Hearts and Arrow are pattern symmetry but there may lose fire play to traditional cut. Also remember not all hearts and Arrow are equal, Dont think just because your diamond possessed the H&A and you've the best cut diamonds, it only means your diamond are cut with a hearts and arrow pattern thats all.

Cut can also determine the visual size of your diamond, a 1 cts stone may look bigger like a 1.3 cts stone if the table is cut slight larger in proportion, but there is always a penalty somewhere.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Clarity

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Color

A tip for the not millionaires, buy F color diamond, it is very difficult for an untrained eye to differentiate between a D and F colored stone, save the rest of your money for the other 3 Cs.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «



Carat
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If you're planning to buy a 0.30 or bigger stone, I would always go for a stone with certificate, the famous industry standard are from

GIA (Gemological Institute of America)
AGS (American Gem Society)

These 2 cert are the popular traded diamond in Malaysia, however we also have our local gemology's Mr Chris Lam who would issue a Diamond grading report.

I always prefer an F color stones with a hint of florescent presents in the stones, slight florescent will make the stone look more colorless or whiter, and in certain sunny condition your stone may have a slight blue tint which I like very much.

You can learn how to read a diamond cert here http://www.diamondring.com/forums/diamondt...al.php?learn=19

When shopping for diamonds ...ASK the shop to show you the latest RAPAPORT, this is the industry pricing of diamond in USD. Rapaport are issued every fortnightly and the prices differs, how much discount you get will depend on your negotiating skill.


Spoiler part are taken from http://www.esva.net/~jhilton/4c.html and http://pages.ebay.co.uk/buy/guides/diamonds-buying-guide/ since I'm too lazy to type out these standard criteria tongue.gif

This post has been edited by moorish: Apr 24 2009, 12:54 PM
TSmoorish
post Apr 23 2009, 12:16 PM

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QUOTE(mouldybread @ Apr 23 2009, 12:05 PM)
lol, i think i should be educated too. so how come tiffany is more expensive than pk?
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Tiffany diamonds are cut differently with 90facet as compared to the normal brilliant 58 facet cut, besides that tiffany is also a brand and they're the one that invented the solitaire ring so its like an LV magnet to girls in thier dream list.

QUOTE(King83 @ Apr 23 2009, 12:13 PM)
yes, but not in CC
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I think CC is the correct place since this is where love and diamond are fused

This post has been edited by moorish: Apr 23 2009, 12:16 PM
TSmoorish
post Apr 23 2009, 01:04 PM

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QUOTE(legolego @ Apr 23 2009, 12:32 PM)
Yeah, I want to know why tiffany diamond cost twice as much as poh kong.
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mah answer edi lo above
TSmoorish
post Apr 23 2009, 01:38 PM

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QUOTE(kazebert @ Apr 23 2009, 01:28 PM)
Diamond are rated accordingly to the quality of it....
If they are cut ( from raw ) with a GIA cert , they cost 30-50% more of those without the certificate..
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Actually yes and no, why a lot ppl like to play with non-cert diamond, if you're very good in grading diamond you can make money with these stones. A VS1 and VS2 are very marginal same as D and E color stones.

If you see a non-cert diamond as D and the shop personal grading is E then you make money,
But if the shop is not honest or ignorant a E diamond he sell you as D color then you lose money.


QUOTE(kazebert @ Apr 23 2009, 01:28 PM)
GIA certificate means Gemological institute of America. Meaning they are cut with the precise measurement...it's like a prefect diamond shape

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Again yes and no
A diamond certificate can only accurately tells you the color, carat, polishing and so on but the most tricky part is the cut and this is where people get confuse and shop makes money.

QUOTE(kazebert @ Apr 23 2009, 01:28 PM)

Besides that ... the colour of it.. eventho it's a Crystal colour , it has 3-5 types or crystal... The more expensive one, would be whiter.. yellow = cheap ... this must be look under the microscope only you can differenciate it....
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Yes and No, Yes is the whiter the more expensive, but the vivid color can be more expensive than the clearest of all diamond, eg a true red diamond can be more expensive than a D colored diamond of the same spec, vivid colored are call fancy color diamond.

And grading color do not require a microscpe, you just compare the diamond on a diamond colored chart in 6500 florescent light (Daylight).
TSmoorish
post Apr 23 2009, 01:44 PM

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QUOTE(silverhawk @ Apr 23 2009, 01:34 PM)
Diamonds are the perfect example of not knowing the true value of an object, and in my opinion, diamonds represent being superficial and ignorant.

Diamonds aren't really rare, nor are they really "precious" stones. In fact, diamonds are so common, that in the past loyalty and the rich wouldn't use diamonds because its considered "low class" and worthless.

The only reason diamonds are what they are now is due to the incredible marketing campaign by De Beers and its monopoly on the market, where they control the supply.
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Diamond is infact a precious stone no doubt about this, about value, well value has always been the human factor and not by a few minority. eg Rolex watch, its a production thing, they can make how many they want to, but yet Rolex holds its value because majority wants it.

QUOTE(kitten @ Apr 23 2009, 01:40 PM)
is diamond a better investment than gold?
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No for the normal diamond of below 5 carat
Yes for a highend D color, IF, above 5 carat stones.
TSmoorish
post Apr 23 2009, 01:48 PM

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QUOTE(@eMiLy @ Apr 23 2009, 01:44 PM)
Do you see countries keeping diamond in the treasury depository? smile.gif
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You cannot say this, a monet is also a good investment but we dun see treasury using them as deposit?
Gold are used as currency, whereelse diamonds are not, but highend diamond is infact a good investment thats why you see soberty house always auctioning big stones and all the rich and famous will bid them.


TSmoorish
post Apr 23 2009, 02:06 PM

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QUOTE(@eMiLy @ Apr 23 2009, 02:03 PM)
Well, my point is that we are comparing between diamonds and golds, Am aware that some rare diamond are able fetch unbelievable price in the market however thats if you are rich enough to get those. As for golds, you can say that its equivalent to money in its way, also it is better to bet on gold if in case monetary system fails and it is more steady in terms of value in the market.
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BTW gold trading and actually going to poh kong buy gold and keep is different thing, you buy gold they charge you for workmanship and it can be anything from 20 - 40% more of its value, and when you sell again yu may not get market price.

When market good (gold price up) you cannot sell for cash, you can however trade things in the shop.


Added on April 23, 2009, 2:13 pmactually why move this thread at girls club?
Diamond for proposal ring should be at CC right? So many guys open thread wanna buy diamond ring for proposal at CC instead of at girls club.

Girls dont buy diamond, its the guy that buys diamond for us mah drool.gif

This post has been edited by moorish: Apr 23 2009, 02:13 PM
TSmoorish
post Apr 23 2009, 05:42 PM

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QUOTE(rourou @ Apr 23 2009, 04:46 PM)
oo by the way.. i wanna ask... a friend told me about man made diamonds.... i don't really know how to say.. i have forgotten what they're called but i think it's made in the US.  what is clear is that it is much cheaper than "real" diamonds. 

i'm the kinda person who's a bit paranoid when it comes to jewellery...... after seeing ppl being robbed in front of myself, i only wear costume jewelleries nowadays... so when my friend brought it up i was pretty excited (even kena robbed also not so sakit hati tongue.gif) where can get?  and from the naked eyes, can one really tell the difference?
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I think you're talking about moizanite with a hardest of 9.5

QUOTE(silverhawk @ Apr 23 2009, 05:06 PM)
There is "perceived value" and "true value". The perceived value of diamonds is high, but its true value is low. You can point me at some really rare diamonds, but face it, you can't afford those. Most diamonds bought by the majority of people aren't worth their asking price nor are they really special in any form or way. Its only prevalent because of De Beer's marketing which have gotten girls hooked onto it. "Diamonds are forever"... right.

You used Rolex watches as an example, have you handled an actual Rolex watch? I'm pretty sure you have, the build and quality of a Rolex watch justifies its asking price. There's a certain level of quality guaranteed with an original Rolex watch. With diamonds, what's the value? You can talk about the cut, chemical/structural purity, etc. and a synthetic diamond would exceed natural diamonds in those qualities. Yet "natural diamonds" are more expensive and perceived to be better... why?

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Then what about gold? why is gold so expensive? do you know they're more gold than gem quality diamond? and whats so valuable about gold when you can have superior alloy that can be made harder than gold. Pure gold cannot make anything, you make ring they're so soft to the point of unusable.

In the end like I say, the value of everything is perceive by the majority of the people on planet earth, why is LV so expensive when the cost of the bag is only 10% of the selling price or even less.

QUOTE(silverhawk @ Apr 23 2009, 05:06 PM)
This is why I say diamonds are the epitome of superficialness.
Synthetic diamonds smile.gif You wouldn't be able to tell from the naked eye, you have to be trained to spot the difference. Not only that, if you actually check it, its form is far more perfect than natural diamonds biggrin.gif
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Not synthetic diamond la, synthetic diamond is more expensive than real diamond.

This post has been edited by moorish: Apr 23 2009, 05:44 PM
TSmoorish
post Apr 23 2009, 07:23 PM

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QUOTE(silverhawk @ Apr 23 2009, 06:40 PM)
Hence the difference of "perceived value" and "true value". Its why guys think girls are incredibly stupid for spending so much on an LV bag, and why girls are all crazy about it tongue.gif The fact is, most people will get away with fakes, and the same is true with diamonds, the inflated costs is quite ridiculous.

If we want to educate people on diamonds, then shouldn't they be educated on both the history on diamonds as well as the issues entangled with the production and distribution of diamonds? They are pretty stones no doubt, but its like someone selling fake goods at insane prices and everyone believes its real. The marked up prices only exists because the illusion of exclusivity is there.
Har? What would you have to back that? I remember seeing the prices of synthetic and real diamonds and the synthetics were always cheaper. It makes sense too, since you can easily produce them in labs rather than funding an entire mining operation.
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Well, its only your personal opinion, I shall not debate with you, but just remember this; majority of the world agrees that a 1 carat D color VVS2 stone is priced at RM40,000.00 if you think its worth RM400 its only your opinion and you shall never get it at that price.

QUOTE(silverhawk @ Apr 23 2009, 06:40 PM)

Har? What would you have to back that? I remember seeing the prices of synthetic and real diamonds and the synthetics were always cheaper. It makes sense too, since you can easily produce them in labs rather than funding an entire mining operation.
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I think you should come out with the fact that synthetic diamonds are cheaper than real diamond since you claim so, or maybe you're confused with what is synthetic diamond and fake diamond.
TSmoorish
post Apr 24 2009, 12:34 PM

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QUOTE(dafreak @ Apr 23 2009, 08:12 PM)
im sure that synthetic diamonds are cheaper...they are used in cutting tools or tools to polish diamonds
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Not all synthetic diamond are of gem quality, even in nature 80% of diamond are of non gem quality.

QUOTE(rourou @ Apr 24 2009, 09:38 AM)
hrm.. so for colour vice... ABCDEFGHI.... A denotes the best and the rest follow suit....

what about all those VVS1 VVS2..... how to differentiate
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The highest grade for color is D
The highest grade for clarity is F
TSmoorish
post Apr 24 2009, 03:48 PM

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QUOTE(dafreak @ Apr 24 2009, 02:52 PM)
check this

synthetic diamonds wiki
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I think Diamond is very closely related to romance and tradition, over the years they have been many enhancement technology to make diamond cheaper, eg Laser drilling to remove particles, this will upgrade your S1 diamond to VVS1, minus the exorbitant price but somehow the consumer acceptance has been poor.

Why do people pay nearly double the cost of VVS1 from S1 when its near impossible to see the differences with your naked eye?

As mention Diamonds are so closely related to romance and the prove of love, so by cheating there will kill the romanticism. Most people will still look for the real thing for a proposal ring. Maybe for normal accessories like earrings you can go for synthetic diamond, but until now I've yet to come across a single pc in malaysia.
TSmoorish
post Apr 24 2009, 04:06 PM

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QUOTE(Baronic @ Apr 24 2009, 03:53 PM)
Pinned thread, since its going somewhere
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Thank you Baronic

QUOTE(kenji1903 @ Apr 24 2009, 04:01 PM)
DEF GHI JKL, etc etc... for clear diamonds, colours go on only up till a certain alphabet... when the colour is different, its graded differently again... the price increases as the colour increases, that's why you have pink diamonds, rubies, emeralds, etc...

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Rubies and emeralds are not diamonds, they're another type of gemstones blink.gif

QUOTE(kenji1903 @ Apr 24 2009, 04:01 PM)
anything SI2 and below is viewable with the naked eye, not easy but it can be seen... for me, i'll give up a bit of clarity for better colour and carat...
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True

QUOTE(kenji1903 @ Apr 24 2009, 04:01 PM)
that why when you go to Tiffany... their diamonds are very expensive though have lower clarity and carat... because they usually give VVS2 and above...
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The reason Tiffany diamond is more expensive is because they're cut differently, the fire and lustre are in fact better than our normal diamond.
TSmoorish
post Apr 24 2009, 04:19 PM

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Another trick I remember

If you intend to buy diamond that are above F color, set it with gold, the reason is the slightly yellowish diamond will still look white with gold. This is like trick to the eye.

And if you set your proposal ring as solitaire, to make your stone look larger you raise the claw, this will give a 0.50cts look like a 0.60cts.
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post Apr 24 2009, 07:34 PM

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QUOTE(kenji1903 @ Apr 24 2009, 04:59 PM)
fire and brilliance wise, what do you think of Lazare, Hearts on Fire and Love Diamond as compared to Tiffany?

more facets not necessarily is nicer cos i don't find SK's Brilliant Rose or GoldHearts Brio88 that appealling... just my opinion, no offense whatsoever tongue.gif
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Just my personal opinion, I would prefer Tiffanys over the rest, the fire is just amazing, but unfortunately I cant afford one.

QUOTE(kenji1903 @ Apr 24 2009, 06:18 PM)
i read somewhere that Tiffany "invented" the concept of engagement rings...
Tiffany's 6 claw solitaire d@mn syok... too bad my budget cannot allow...
another thing is, their engagement rings are in platinum... and platinum does not have a "real" market rate... its up to the seller to determine

correct me if i'm wrong smile.gif
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Yes 6 prong Solitaire was design by Tiffany, and the expensive factor is mainly the design and name of Tiffany.

QUOTE(peinsama @ Apr 24 2009, 07:27 PM)
Just to understand things a little further, but since you're a lovely lady, mine telling me more about the close relationship and the fond between women or romance with diamonds?
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If you notice woman always love glittering things an Diamond happen to be the most glittering rclxms.gif and of coz its expensive so that makes us want it more.
TSmoorish
post Apr 24 2009, 07:40 PM

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QUOTE(Dickson Poon @ Apr 24 2009, 07:36 PM)
Not sure if this has been posted before but it may be useful to those who are interested

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/198202/diamond
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About the control of price in fact most commodity are being manipulated somewhat, oil, gold, silver, bean...
Imagine all the world reserved of gold being dump into the market, gold prices will drop too.
TSmoorish
post Apr 24 2009, 07:53 PM

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QUOTE(Dickson Poon @ Apr 24 2009, 07:49 PM)
Oh yes? Would you like me to quote and highlight other interesting points from that seven page article?

I'll make it clear right now though. I'm not arguing about what's "right" or "wrong". Merely bringing up something that others may find interesting to know. How they interpret it, is up to them.
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Oh go ahead, dun worry I'm not selling diamond biggrin.gif

gosh I've just finish reading your long story, and this report was dated 1980s mad.gif and yet diamond is still going strong now, well maybe the price had ease a bit with this recession.

This post has been edited by moorish: Apr 24 2009, 08:58 PM
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post Apr 25 2009, 12:48 PM

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Hearts and arrow diamond pattern cut are invented recently, the success of this diamond is so great that many brands had jump into marketing hearts and arrows diamond. It makes sense to mount this on your proposal ring as hearts and arrow is also the symbol of love (cupid). The meaning and symbol are just so romantic.

user posted image
user posted image


Taken frm wiki the history of hearts and arrows
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «



TSmoorish
post Apr 25 2009, 10:16 PM

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QUOTE(Dickson Poon @ Apr 25 2009, 08:00 PM)
The difference between those commodities you listed and diamonds is that those commodities have real and useful economic lives. Their prices are also governed by exchanges and markets. You sell for the price that people are willing to buy.

No such exchange or market exists for diamonds.

Has anybody here tried to sell a diamond? You cannot even get wholesale prices for them, because they are simply not worth that much. The diamond industry is essentially a large cartel dedicated to propping up the perceived value of an otherwise useless item.

Has anybody even seen the diamonds being sold in retail outlets nowadays? They're so frickin TINY, your eyes would be hard pressed to pick them out.

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FYI, 80% of diamond is in fact very important in our life, most non gem grade diamond are use for cutting and polishing, only a small fraction of diamond is cut for decoration - gemstones.

Infact Diamond do have international exchange rate, they're known as rapaport.

About why a lot of diamond are worth much less when you're selling is because when you;re buying a diamond and as mention VVS1 and SI2 price factor can be double for the same 3 other Cs.

If you bought your diamond as VVS1 and after 5 years of using, wear and tear will happen, scratches or minor chip will happen and your stone is no longer a VVS1.

Another factor, a lot of ppl do not know there is a control price exchange for diamond, that is rapaport, they would have bought a diamond much more expensive than it is worth.

Or market price for diamond has drop when compared to buying, If today you buy gold 916=RM98/g and 3 months later gold price drop to RM78/g, you still lose money.

The shop u went to are not really dealing with diamond so obviously you dun expect a competitive price.

Just like gold, you think when market says 916 = RM98/gram, you think you can buy a ring which is weight 2 gram at RM196? nope you should be buying that 2 gram ring at around RM235, remember the shop needs to make money too. And when you sell you think you can sell at RM98/gram?

they're just so many factors instead of blaming, this thread is to help consumer understand more about what is going on.


QUOTE(Dickson Poon @ Apr 25 2009, 08:00 PM)
Yes, this article is the original written in 1982. The article traces the history of the diamond ring from the late 1800's... but the history of the diamond trade goes back longer before that. I'll try to find a few links.

In addition since 1982, there have been NEW developments regarding the diamond trade. These events occurred within living memory. Chances are, those of you reading this thread would have been in school, or in college, or at work when you first heard about the horrifying civil wars in Sierra Leone and Liberia.

Has Mobutu Sese Seko been forgotten already?

The film "Blood Diamond" has actually skirted around the more hideous truths of the diamond trade and stopped short of naming the true perpetrators of a human rights violation that beggars imagination.


I shall also look for the links.

I may also post certain pictures here. I found that pictures and news articles of people having their arms, legs and breasts cut off, gang rape and murder, the usage of child soldiers drugged up on hard narcotics, all committed by militias and warlord forces funded by the diamond trade, has put a damper on my enthusiasm for diamonds.
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I dont know why you're so against diamond, there is a dark side in everything la, you think the petrol you buying everyday no dark stories behind? people dont die for it? you know war happen because of petrol? This is the world we live in today, its complicated, thats why god made beautiful things for us to enjoy like Diamond.


TSmoorish
post Apr 26 2009, 09:55 AM

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QUOTE(Dickson Poon @ Apr 25 2009, 08:00 PM)
Has anybody here tried to sell a diamond? You cannot even get wholesale prices for them, because they are simply not worth that much. The diamond industry is essentially a large cartel dedicated to propping up the perceived value of an otherwise useless item.

Has anybody even seen the diamonds being sold in retail outlets nowadays? They're so frickin TINY, your eyes would be hard pressed to pick them out.

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Ask anyone whom had kept a 0.50 cts diamond since the 1960s or earlier, ask them to evaluate the diamond and see if the value had indeed increase at a minimum 100%, normally the value should be 500 - 1000% increased.

Those who had bought a 0.50cts around 80s may sell at a minimum for the price they pay, normally the value should be 50 - 100% increased.

Another very important factor, most people buy diamond in a set jewellery, the goldsmith charge a high fee for jewellery making and design cost .

And remember this Diamonds are forever, normally when you buy a diamond ring for your wife, that ring is to be kept in your family for the next generations and all the generations that follow. Its a very sound investment and something valuable you can actually pass down.

QUOTE(silverhawk @ Apr 26 2009, 04:18 AM)
The problem is that diamonds have been so romanticised that people just spend money on it. Girls expect it, so guys buy it. When in fact there are so many other gemstones and designs you do which are not limited to diamonds. Incredible marketing by De Beers really.
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Yes incredible marketing, infact they're very successful, and whats wrong with that may I ask? Its not like diamonds are found by debeers, Diamond history goes back thousands of years. And it is still romantic whether market by debeers or not, infact thanks to debeers made popularity of diamond we have better and better technique for cutting the stones to make it look even better.

Yes they're plenty more gemstones, I let you in a little trade secret, the best investment is Ruby and sapphire, in year 2000 sapphire of certain class was going for RM2000/cts wholesale, 7 years later the price jump to RM8000/cts, but unfortunately Ruby and sapphire are not control by any corporate, its a free flow market, only people in the industry and people with in-depth knowledge can agak agak judge the stones value and make money. Normal consumer forget it, chances are so high you would have bought a stone with nearly 1000% inflated value, a stone where you wont make a single sen for the next 100 years.

Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald are expert level stone, dun touch if you're novice or you get burn, stick to diamond. I tell you when I was trading gemstone we were not making money on diamond, it was only a service item, the price and grading are too tightly control. We made our money on other gemstone which have no control.

Consumer are not protected by any specify grading of Ruby and sapphire, what color is higher grade? what clarity is consider good? what cutting is superior? you can only send your sapphire to be issue a cert saying yes this is a genuine sapphire crystal, size so and so, this and that inclusion was present and this is just an identification of your stone...thats it you're done.

The goldsmith can charge you any price they wish to charge because there is no guideline for the consumer or trading of ruby and sapphire. So do you still think other gemstones is your better bet?

So now do you see why debeer was successful with diamond? they made a standard and give people confidence in buying diamond, they set regulation, standard and a systematic way to help consumer. Debeer is actually your fren not your enemy.

This post has been edited by moorish: Apr 26 2009, 10:10 AM
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post Apr 26 2009, 01:59 PM

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QUOTE(silverhawk @ Apr 26 2009, 01:16 PM)
Erm, that can be said of any family heirloom right? It can be a watch, a normal ring, perhaps even a piece of shark tooth that got stuck in your grandfather when he escaped a shark attack. The value of something you pass on for generations is more sentimental than anything monetary.

Perhaps we're coming from 2 different perspectives. You see the gemstone as an investment, I see it as something symbolic. Sentimental value vs Monetary value. Unless you plan to trade in your diamonds/gem stones I don't believe it makes sense as an investment. Who in their right mind would trade in their wedding ring even if diamond prices suddenly shot up 10x?

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The rich becomes richer when you accumulate wealth, you pass down paintings, antique, jewelleries. A wedding ring from you grandmother is both valuable and sentimental.

If ever unfortunate event happen, you at least can sell the diamond, what are you going to do with your grandfathers shark tooth?


QUOTE(silverhawk @ Apr 26 2009, 01:16 PM)
Without De Beer's marketing campaign, you girls wouldn't perceive diamonds as well you do now. There's nothing wrong with a good marketing campaign, but I'm against consumer ignorance. If you always believe marketing, you are always going to be lied to, that's just the plain simple truth.
They were not successful because they created a standard, they were successful because they managed to create a demand. The standards you speak of, IMO is an illusion. Just like how we have standards/grades for pirated products, you may think its a good thing... but if someone says this is a "grade B" product, when its actually a "grade C". Would you be able to tell the difference? Most likely you won't, you would need to KNOW the difference yourself.

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The standardize of grading is the first thing that sets off confidence in buyers, with the successful marketing campaign it sets off more research and standard for diamond, and what do you mean illusion?

A D color is a D color which is pure transparent with no tinge of colors how can you say this is an illusion? The majority of the people will want the most white diamond a sense of pureness and it look beautiful with good fire and lustre, where else a yellowish tinge diamond will look less lustre and less beautiful because it look dirty like, there is no illusion here.

A big inclusion will be graded as SI2 which is visible with naked eye, a VVS1 is a very very tiny inclusion which is not visible with your naked eye but only able to view with a 10X loupe, this is very straightforward standard and again where is the illusion you claim?

QUOTE(silverhawk @ Apr 26 2009, 01:16 PM)
This is where education comes in, whether its diamonds, rubies, sapphire, or any other gemstone. One should know what constitutes a proper product and how to get it verified properly. It exists in all trades, so proper education is no excuse, with or without corporate control.
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This is where you're so misinform, you can check with any gemologist on planet Earth, there is no standard set for all the other precious gemstones, only Diamond has an international agreeable standard which all gemologist will set.

The Carat, The cutting, The clarity and The Color and minor side standard like polishing and symmetry.

Precious stones like Sapphire and Ruby do not have all these, The highest grade color for Sapphire is corn flower blue, even this simple shade you can find different hue and tinge, The highest grade for Ruby is Pigeon Blood Red and same again this shade has so many hue.

No gemologist can say exactly what shade of blue is your sapphire.
No gemologist can say this shade of color is better than that shade of color.
No gemologist can or dare say this cut is better than that cut.

As mention if you ever wanna buy a precious stone for your wife, a Diamond is your safest bet, leave all the rest to experience gem collector. And this thread is to help as much as I can.

This post has been edited by moorish: Apr 26 2009, 02:02 PM

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