Note to readers and people replying: This is only for discussion purposes. I don't intend to sway anyone away from bodybuilding/weightlifting. I myself have not been affected by this knowledge. I still go to the gym frequently, eat loads and sweat it out!

--------------

To start off, biogerontology is a fairly new area of research. Experimental studies in model organisms (C. elegans, D. melanogaster, M. musculus) have shown that:

1. A higher metabolism causes you to age quicker. This is consistent with the most popular theory of ageing: the free radical theory of ageing. The basic idea of the theory is that a higher metabolism results in greater energy expenditure. As we all know the powerhouse of the cell (so fondly named by all biology students) is the mitochondria. Energy is generated via the electron transport chain (ETC). However, coupling in the ETC is not perfect and thus, the generation of free radicals that can potentially damage DNA, protein, lipids etc.

The free radical damage is a viscious cycle. Once the mitochondria DNA (mtDNA) is damaged, the poor repair mechanisms causes mutations to accumulate with age. As you may be able to deduce by now, increased energy expenditure by a higher metabolic rate _would_ in fact cause you to possibly age quicker. This is assuming that this theory is true.

2. Corroborating the idea of free radical theory of ageing is the rate of living theory, whereby your lifespan is measured by oxygen consumption in litres/kg (also known as life energy potential - LEP) throughout your entire lifespan. It has been speculated that mammals have a constant value for the life energy potential. This was demonstrated in squirrels and horses. Despite huge differences in maximum lifespan, the LEP for both animals were about the same (60,000 l/kg).

Hence, a higher metabolic rate would limit your lifespan because you would reach your life energy potential quicker.

3. Larger animals have shorter lifespan. Big dogs die quicker. Birds live longer for their size. A study of baseball players (controlled for affluence, a major factor in today's measure of lifespan) showed that BMI was inversely related to lifespan. For every ~kg, there was a reduction in lifespan of 5 months.

4. Dietary restriction (DR) was shown to extend lifespan in model organisms. It was demonstrated that DR delays the onset of late life diseases such as cancer, diabetes, hypertension, autoimmune disorders. DR also slows age related decline in blood glucose control, fecundity, muscle mass, DNA repair and learning ability, to name a few. However, this has not been successfully demonstrated in humans, although it should be noted that Okinawans from Japan have the highest number of centenarians (or super-centenarians) to date. Their diet is largely responsible for this. They eat in moderation (children 60% less and adults 20% less when compared to world wide data).

--------------

So that's a summary of what you need to know for discussion. I didn't quote any papers, but if there are specific parts that you wish to refer to, I can find quotes although I may be slow with that kind of response.

My question is, knowing what you know now, would this affect your love for weightlifting and the dietary requirements that come alongside it?

It certainly hasn't affected mine, I would like to know your opinion on the matter. Also, don't show me a picture of Nubret.

so they say high met>more free radical
errmmm... more antioxidants? XD

Antioxidants were shown not to have an effect on reducing free radical damage by consumption. The antioxidant boom in the market, apparently promoting longevity is an exaggeration of experimental results in research.

Promoting genes that code for antioxidant expression in cells (namely, Cu/Zn superoxide dismutase, glutathione peroxidase and catalase) reduced free radical damage to cells and resulted in longevity. This was immediately picked up upon by enthusiastic entrepeneurs to market antioxidants as 'anti-ageing' products.

None of it has been successful in reversing the effects of ageing, as experimentally demonstrated.

I used to have those assumptions as well until I learnt more about oxidative stress (which is linked to that free radical theory) and it's link to a lot of diseases that one gets in old age (and surprisingly appearing in younger folks). There was also a link to the benefits of strength training in curbing osteoporosis in women as well as helping with athritis.

Hmm....and today, dietary restriction may not be a catchy phrase anymore because it can be misleading at times. Yes, we should be limiting intake of fats and carbohydrates but there is also a research trend in health benefits of other foods. Moderation may be oversimplifying it and there are more rules to the Japan diet. I'm rather intrigued by it and have been reading 2 books about Japan Diet but sadly, it's not written by a bodybuilder/weightlifter.

Anyway, back to the free radical theory. If you can get hold or just browse through a book called "What your doctor doesn't know about Nutritional Medicine may be killing you" by Dr. Ray Strand. There are lot of research links in that book as well as a more detailed explaination of the free radical theory and linking it to oxidative stress. If you don't want to buy it, that's fine. Just browse through it at a local bookstore and see what he says.

I got a huge shock when finding out that the oxidative stress and free radical theory was a result of our immune system trying re-balance out our body needs and it went awry because we didn't have the sufficient nutrients or exercise the body needed. And that oxidative stress was the result of muscular degeneration, arthrities, Parkinson's Disease, heart diseases , diabetes, cancer, osteoporosis, eye disorders, etc.

So when that kind of proof hits you between the eyes, one gets shaken to the core completely, considering that a lot of health info and assumption gets debunk.

Hmm...I've just sent my book to a friend. I'll try to get it back and scan some pages for you to read up on the theory on oxidative stress and how the free radicals fit it.

---

Added on April 20, 2009, 9:08 amHmm...I need to seriously get that book back and paste you some scanned pages on the findings of this doctor about the research. Mind you, for neurudegenerative diseases like Parkinson's and Alzheimer, he doesn't claim that it cures it completely but that it slows it down and that more research is needed in the field of antioxidants.

The creditability of this man came from the way that he wrote the book and the fact that he totally turn around his thinking about antioxidants when he saw how his wife recovered from fibromyalgia when traditional Western medication couldn't help her at all. She had chronic fatigue and bedridden for years until she took some antioxidants (which was more than vitamins A, C, E) and could get out of bed after 6 months (it's a slow therapy, no denying it). She is now healthy and is a horse trainer (a backbreaking job).

Having said that, I am very wary of marketing gimmicks by MLMs and pharceutical companies touting the benefits of a few antioxidant reduction.

---

Added on April 20, 2009, 9:09 am
http://www.precisionnutrition.com/research...to-hit-the-iron

A bit of a side note but about the benefits of weight-training for older woman. The granny in the last pic looks cool.

This post has been edited by myremi: Apr 20 2009, 09:10 AM

U guys are good in essay

anyway, the aging stuff is quite obvious for some individuals, as i can see it from my lecturer last time, he a triathlon competitors and he is only on his early 30's and he looks like 40's.

However, eventhou it cause aging, but i think during the older age, these are the strong group of ppl among their same age community.

go see this old guy at www.bobdelmonteque.com and tell me he looks old... the fact is most people will benefit more from exercise and body building rather than not doing it at all... just look at your grand parents..

funny thing you brought this up mofonyx because this thought has been lingering in my mind for quite sometime. surprisingly enough, most bodybuilders look younger when they hit their 50s which kinda goes against that ageing-theory, no? i know this isnt remotely connected to what youve discussed above but makes you wonder, ryte?

perhaps the after effect of growth hormone that they look much younger, registryeditor? if so, me myself would love to hav some dose

well, that is one factor. but then again, i do have friends who are waaayyyyy past my age league that actually does serious weightlifting and they still look way younger than their age. and, no, they are not on the gear.

No, everyone is going to grow old eventually and you are only young once. Also, Arnold doesn't look very old.

and you're point is?

Taking a piss...

"You will be different, sometimes you'll feel like an outcast, but you'll never be alone. You will make my strength your own. You will see my life through your eyes, as your life will be seen through mine. The son becomes the father and the father becomes the son." - a quote taken from Superman Returns.

Long story short, it's a good reflection on what cure it can offer.



Some risks of calorie restriction diets included - reduced bone density, loss of muscle mass, anemia, memory loss, dizziness and depression. Ain't worth it if you ask me.

No point fighting against aging.

I'll get old eventually anyway, so I might as well make the most of my youth.

Tsk.... just because it's the internet, it has to be true. Just because there're just a few studies which are impressive sounding. they have to be true. Research results based on meta research? Lol, there's not enough studies done on biogerontology. Key word, "experimental research".

Come back and post more on this when they're really established. Funny that, I don't remember bodybuilders ever listening to scientists.

@registryeditor/jamis/eksk: To bring things into perspective. My dad can run forever. He looks early 40s when really he's mid 50s. Resting heart rate is low 50s.

Then again, he doesn't eat in excess. He doesn't weigh a lot. So this still stands for all points because a lower BMI means lower basal metabolic rate. Exercise does show to promote a healtheir life. However, the ideas related to bodybuilding (eat loads, lift loads, get big) are all favouring a faster age-related decline. This was what I was trying to say (I may have missed out or argued differently earlier because it was 3am when I posted), that the bodybuilding paradigm is everything the study of biogerontology has shown to promote ageing.

Perhaps the active activity comes alongside practicing a healthier lifestyle. At least for me that is true. I don't club, binge drink, eat crap, and never have smoked.

@cofactor3: The concept of DR is not being a glutton. If you eat right you will be okay, I believe. In fact, there are reduced rates of such ageing related conditions like you have described with Okinawan Japanese.

@florian/dan: That's the same way I look at it. You're not going to live forever, but then again, it'll be great if you could live longer.

@colemon: Can't really recall right now, but yes hGH was a treatment to counteract ageing. However, exercise was shown to slow ageing even more. Note I said exercise, not 'bulking up'. Refer reply to registryeditor/jamis/eksk.

@darklight: Well that's just typical of you. I didn't get this from the internet. Search David Gems, Linda Patridge, Cynthia Kenyon for an idea of biogerontology progress. It's just something intriguing that I thought would be a great point of discussion. Of course, you're not up for any discussions.

---

Added on April 20, 2009, 7:38 pmedit: I overlooked myremi's post! Will reply in due time.

---

Added on April 20, 2009, 8:31 pm@myremi: I'll try to get hold of the book after my exams. The free radical theory of ageing has held up to be quite true, as far as research goes. Overexpressing free radical scavangers (antioxidants) as I've already mentioned, does show to increase lifespan. Also, interesting point on antioxidant consumption in the form of vitamins to cure a debilitating disease.

It comes to no surprise that the Japanese diet has more rules than just eating in moderation. They are a very cultural country and one can only imagine what happens at the dinner table. Dietary restriction does work wonders for Okinawans, though.

This post has been edited by pizzaboy: Apr 20 2009, 10:04 PM

Japanese have affinity for all things small. Scarcity of natural resources and cultural different played a role here. Small cookwares not doubt have the impact toward their daily serving size.

Love this statement.
But the funny thing is this research shows these results. Yet many that workout, generally look relatively young.
I don't mind, especially considering this is the path my entire life will probably take anyway.

mofonyx : I must say though, that you have much gumption to post about such a topic in this forum. Kudos to you!

About the Japanese way of dieting, I was reading books written by Naomi Moriyama on homecook meals in Japan. "Japanese Women Don't Get Old or Fat" and "The Japan Diet". Yes, food portions are small and the Japanese control it by using small utensils. The homecook meals are not like what we see in Japanese restaurants though although some are. Here's a video of some Japanese meals that she has prepared.

When I compare what kind of diet the Japanese eat and what my Granny cooks today, it's very similar. The common rules are :
-Food ingredients are mostly rice, soy sauce, fish, vegetables and fruits.
-Portion control althougth my Granny does sometimes have a heavier hand on fat and sugar than the Japanese.
-Cooking is done lightly with stir-fry or soup. Occasionally some deep fries but nothing baked or roasted.

Naomi Moriyama also speaks briefly about the Samurai Diet as well and that the secret for their stamina was brown rice i.e. complex carbo as well as other dietary habits that they used to have.

Both books are written from a weight loss perspective and not so much on bodybuilding/weightlifting though. But it does provide an insight to their dietary habits and longevity.

To the others who think that the discussion may be a waste of time on the assumption that bodybuilders don't listen to scientist : That is no longer true. There are health risks that come from bodybuilding that relates to dietary habits and exercise that a lot of them are starting to take more notice of today than 5-10 years ago. Food manufacturing has advanced as well so certain foods are made for the better but others for the worst. Bodybuilding websites are advocating dietary restrictions, even BB.com if some of you would seriously take the time to read it properly because quite a lot of it does tally with what mofonyx is stating. So beating mofonyx just for the sake of it, just remember that for every finger you point at a person, there's another 4 fingers pointing back at the foolish one.

This post has been edited by myremi: Apr 20 2009, 10:05 PM

i partly agree with ur statements as i believe in moderation is the best. however i found that "Larger animals have shorter lifespan" is not wholly true. the research only take the examples that support its statement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_life_span

The longest-lived vertebrates have been variously described as

* koi (A Japanese species of fish, 200+ years, though generally not exceeding 25) [7]
* tortoises (Galápagos tortoise) (190 years) [8]
* tuataras (a New Zealand reptile species, 100-200+ years[9])
* whales (Bowhead Whale) (about 200 years)

Bowhead Whale - A stocky dark-colored whale without a dorsal fin, it can grow to 20 meters (66 ft) in length. Estimated maximum weight of this thick-bodied species is 136 tonnes (134 LT; 150 ST), second only to the Blue Whale