I used to have those assumptions as well until I learnt more about oxidative stress (which is linked to that free radical theory) and it's link to a lot of diseases that one gets in old age (and surprisingly appearing in younger folks). There was also a link to the benefits of strength training in curbing osteoporosis in women as well as helping with athritis.

Hmm....and today, dietary restriction may not be a catchy phrase anymore because it can be misleading at times. Yes, we should be limiting intake of fats and carbohydrates but there is also a research trend in health benefits of other foods. Moderation may be oversimplifying it and there are more rules to the Japan diet. I'm rather intrigued by it and have been reading 2 books about Japan Diet but sadly, it's not written by a bodybuilder/weightlifter.

Anyway, back to the free radical theory. If you can get hold or just browse through a book called "What your doctor doesn't know about Nutritional Medicine may be killing you" by Dr. Ray Strand. There are lot of research links in that book as well as a more detailed explaination of the free radical theory and linking it to oxidative stress. If you don't want to buy it, that's fine. Just browse through it at a local bookstore and see what he says.

I got a huge shock when finding out that the oxidative stress and free radical theory was a result of our immune system trying re-balance out our body needs and it went awry because we didn't have the sufficient nutrients or exercise the body needed. And that oxidative stress was the result of muscular degeneration, arthrities, Parkinson's Disease, heart diseases , diabetes, cancer, osteoporosis, eye disorders, etc.

So when that kind of proof hits you between the eyes, one gets shaken to the core completely, considering that a lot of health info and assumption gets debunk.

Hmm...I've just sent my book to a friend. I'll try to get it back and scan some pages for you to read up on the theory on oxidative stress and how the free radicals fit it.

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Added on April 20, 2009, 9:08 amHmm...I need to seriously get that book back and paste you some scanned pages on the findings of this doctor about the research. Mind you, for neurudegenerative diseases like Parkinson's and Alzheimer, he doesn't claim that it cures it completely but that it slows it down and that more research is needed in the field of antioxidants.

The creditability of this man came from the way that he wrote the book and the fact that he totally turn around his thinking about antioxidants when he saw how his wife recovered from fibromyalgia when traditional Western medication couldn't help her at all. She had chronic fatigue and bedridden for years until she took some antioxidants (which was more than vitamins A, C, E) and could get out of bed after 6 months (it's a slow therapy, no denying it). She is now healthy and is a horse trainer (a backbreaking job).

Having said that, I am very wary of marketing gimmicks by MLMs and pharceutical companies touting the benefits of a few antioxidant reduction.

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Added on April 20, 2009, 9:09 am
http://www.precisionnutrition.com/research...to-hit-the-iron

A bit of a side note but about the benefits of weight-training for older woman. The granny in the last pic looks cool.

This post has been edited by myremi: Apr 20 2009, 09:10 AM

mofonyx : I must say though, that you have much gumption to post about such a topic in this forum. Kudos to you!

About the Japanese way of dieting, I was reading books written by Naomi Moriyama on homecook meals in Japan. "Japanese Women Don't Get Old or Fat" and "The Japan Diet". Yes, food portions are small and the Japanese control it by using small utensils. The homecook meals are not like what we see in Japanese restaurants though although some are. Here's a video of some Japanese meals that she has prepared.

When I compare what kind of diet the Japanese eat and what my Granny cooks today, it's very similar. The common rules are :
-Food ingredients are mostly rice, soy sauce, fish, vegetables and fruits.
-Portion control althougth my Granny does sometimes have a heavier hand on fat and sugar than the Japanese.
-Cooking is done lightly with stir-fry or soup. Occasionally some deep fries but nothing baked or roasted.

Naomi Moriyama also speaks briefly about the Samurai Diet as well and that the secret for their stamina was brown rice i.e. complex carbo as well as other dietary habits that they used to have.

Both books are written from a weight loss perspective and not so much on bodybuilding/weightlifting though. But it does provide an insight to their dietary habits and longevity.

To the others who think that the discussion may be a waste of time on the assumption that bodybuilders don't listen to scientist : That is no longer true. There are health risks that come from bodybuilding that relates to dietary habits and exercise that a lot of them are starting to take more notice of today than 5-10 years ago. Food manufacturing has advanced as well so certain foods are made for the better but others for the worst. Bodybuilding websites are advocating dietary restrictions, even BB.com if some of you would seriously take the time to read it properly because quite a lot of it does tally with what mofonyx is stating. So beating mofonyx just for the sake of it, just remember that for every finger you point at a person, there's another 4 fingers pointing back at the foolish one.

This post has been edited by myremi: Apr 20 2009, 10:05 PM

mofonyx : Reason why I didn't post the link here is because I wasn't too sure on the reception.

There is this nasty habit in this forum to just quote names of famous BBers, expecting the reader to believe the poster's creditability by acquaintance alone and not through explaination or reasoning or statements made by famous BBers. And, if the reader doesn't know them, the poster will turn around and verbally abuse the reader for his "ignorance". Using people's names in vain and in such manner is shallow.

Link : http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=987971

From all the reading that I've done to date, some conclusions :

-There are a lot of similarities across nearly all diets i.e. limit carbo, fat, sugar intake, ensure proper cooking method, eat more veggies and controlled portions of fruits, watch portions, etc. If I check out a diabetic diet, I see similarities with the fat-burning diets for some of the BB diets. Portions may be different for the proteins but other than that, still much so the same basic concept and principles.

-One thing interesting about the Japanese diet is the focus on tofu, fish, green tea and lastly, seaweed. The seaweed may just be the last food ingredient left to really study. Green tea and tofu gain acceptance in worldwide culinary but not so seaweed. Coming from the sea, it would have an abundance of nutrients that wouldn't be found in land-grown vegetables due to the the richness of the sea compared to the depletion of the landsoil for farming.

-All body functions and processes are the same for all human beings. It's just a question on whether we have created a certain body environment for the process to take place or not. That's why certain processes will only occur in BBers/WLers (weight lifterss) / athletes and not for the ordinary Joe. But that doesn't mean that they should ignore the health risks faced by the ordinary Joe either.

-It's important to know the condition of your health before you start off and make adjustments accordingly, whether you're just an ordinary person starting off on exercise regime / BBers / WLers/ athletes. A good example is Flex Wheeler where people thought that it was the wrong usage of supplements that brought out his kidney problems when actually it's a genetic problem from birth. Was reading one of the interviews that he gave and he admitted that it was tough having to put up a brave face about it during competitions. He still BB with his new kidney but he now watches his diet and exercise regime.

-Careful when reading research articles. There's not as many research done on getting new results as much as research of comparing literature. It's either experiemental research or literature comparison research.

Aging well is an interesting topic and weightlifting has a role in it. Majority of my information is coming from http://www.precisionnutrition.com because the articles are easier to read since it has less emotional garbage in there. Do you remember the previous articles you linked about Anaerobic Cardio Workout? The stuff in there tallies with what I'm reading about Weight Loss but had to do a lot of "reading between the lines" (the delivery method was terrible and I doubt that most people can really understand the terminologies used).

Oh, one thing I decided to do was order a set of Precision Nutrition and just try to get a better basic understanding about food + exercise + weight lifting. Hopefully can get it by the end of this week or beginning next week.

This post has been edited by myremi: Apr 21 2009, 09:30 AM

Cheeky monkey here...

The text is on taste lah, not about health benefits lah.

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Added on April 21, 2009, 2:13 pmTo counteract the damage, eat more vegetables and take more antioxidants other than vitamins A, C, E.

The real definition for antioxidants is not just 3 vitamins are we have been drummed continuously by marketing gimmicks. It's actually more i.e. substance that inhibits oxidation or inhibits reactions promoted by oxygen or peroxides. This will include trace minerals, CoQ10, Grapeseed (which surprisingly is 50x more effective as an antioxidant provided it's taken in combination with other antioxidants), glucosamine, fish oil, etc.

The human body is an amazing and ingenious invention. It has the build-in capacity to deal with a lot of major health problems, provided that it has the necessary materials to do so. And, the only way that it can get these materials is by eating. So, eat your greens.

This post has been edited by myremi: Apr 21 2009, 02:13 PM

It's currently a merry-go-round because the Westerners haven't yet figured out how is it that Japanese ppl can take so much salt and MSG in their diet and still live so long? This includes having majority of their male population having high blood pressure, heavy smokers and drinkers and yet statistically, compared to countries worldwide, they still have less heart problems.

So even though seaweed does contain MSG, how is it that their people doesn't seem to have the violent reaction that others do? Probably the combination of diet and exercise (they walk a lot, even in the city).

Sabarlah kawan. U need to be more positive lah, instead of bitter.

Sarcasm doesn't become u. And there I was, thinking that was hope.

The first claim is by sheer observation, considering that it's the Western researchers who did a 180 degree turn when it came to the health benefits of weight training.

2nd claim on MSG contributing violent reaction : should have been written as extreme. By observation of ppl around you who are sensitive to MSG is good enough claims. I've had friends and relatives who either have fainted or agitated from the effect of MSG. Don't u? If you haven't, count yourself lucky.

However, why the seaweed doesn't give that same reaction? It could be that the MSG is not in it's purified + crystallize form as the MSG used for cooking. Or it could be that there's other stuff in the seaweed that negates the bad effects of MSG when eating seaweed. Hypothetical.

And you will keep waiting.

mofonyx : Learning that now. But, having to grow up with a very grumpy uncle, it's easy to deal with people like them. Just give them back the same treatment and they usually back off.

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Added on April 22, 2009, 4:49 amHmm...and since we were talking about Japanese diets, have just found something new : Bento Box Food Art.

Something to do now.

This post has been edited by myremi: Apr 22 2009, 04:49 AM

LOL! If that's your best shot, you must seriously be running out of ideas now.

cofactor-3 : Then you just have to wither and wait then. Because you're obviously unwilling to even share much until the other party has posted. So wait.

One thing about food enhancers is that most of them aren't in the foods unless it's processed food. Not all food enhancers are available in the market, not to mention that it may not seem practical to go and identify it down to the individual component and then erase it out from the menu.

And remember what I said about nasty habits and pointing fingers.

mofonyx : Give me a bit of time to read up on the Okinawa Diet page. I also just recently found the Japanese Food Pyramid which is surprisingly a spinning top.

http://item.rakuten.co.jp/yellowstudio/c/0000000352/
http://www.maff.go.jp/english_p/shokuiku.pdf

I'm also feeling more than a bit inspired after looking at Bento Food Art. Never knew that the Japanese also had planning rules for making the size of the container fit to the calorie (well, approximation anyways).

http://lunchinabox.net/2007/03/07/guide-to...size-bento-box/

Sigh. The only reason I stop dealing with you is because you wouldn't give a damn anyway. So what is the point? All I see is a bitter man who takes pleasure in making others feel miserable.

Meh enough.

Mofonyx : GL in your exams.

I wonder if you really know what you're saying when you say that I'm drawing this out of proportions. For I do not take low-blows method that you do. If you feel that my conversation with pizzaboy is one of it, then so be it. Getting victimized is something that I don't relish so why shouldn't I speak to the mods about it?

In any event, my final post on this topic on MSG in terms of food safety.

There are controversial studies at this point of time when it pertains to MSG. Yes, there are, apparently, other food enhancers in the market but the most common would be MSG.

http://www.foodsafety.gov/~lrd/msg.html
http://www.fda.gov/FDAC/features/2003/103_msg.html

These are overview of studies done by the FDA (the latest being the one in 1995) that even though they could not conclude firmly that MSG was detrimental to health, the reaction of an unknown number of people warranted them to instruct food manufacturers to declare for glutamate substances, be it MSG or other types of food enhancers.

Note that Obama has also requested that food labelling system maintained by FDA be reviewed (http://www.truthinlabeling.org/). One area will probably be this.

Some of the different types of food enhancers worldwide :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavour_enhancer

Another link about MSG is here : http://www.msgtruth.org/

The reaction of MSG lead to the study of Excitotoxicity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitotoxicity) which included reactions to aspartame.

Research links are included at the end of wiki pages and the various links above.

So, have digress enough. You can find whatever reasons to flame bait or blackball me so it's making no sense to further answer your queries.

What you should have done in the beginning was state your case rather than waiting for me to link stuff.

In any event, I've had enough of having to deal with you.