Change my mind ? Nope.

First of all this is not a confirmed result ... When I google "weightlifting" or "weightlifting makes you age faster" I only found "weightlifting makes you happier", "weightlifting aids fat loss" or "weightlifting makes you look better". So to start it off, this is not even a very popular argument yet but certainly there's possibility to everything so I'm not against your statement nor I support it.

For those who said that they meet somebody who lift weights look much order than actual age or the other way round ... It might not be the weightlifting that makes him look old, there's too much about human body to be discovered and you don't know what he actually did. Consider all those good food you're taking, doesn't it kinda compensate the aging issue provided if it's true ?

I found that bodybuilding is kind of like a religion thing that you choose what you want to believe and what you want to do. I'm not here to give you scientific facts and I'm not a science student anyway. In fact I hate it as much as I love hot babes. I'm getting bored of these researches that can't convince me so I don't give a damn about them anymore, I just wanna lift weights.

myremi: Thank you for kudos. No doubt that the diets are entirely different from the bodybuilding/weightlifting diet. Nonetheless, they should be equally interesting because of the longevity benefits of being dietary restricted. Even a diet of 70% ad libitum (ad libitum meaning fed what the mouse would eat given unlimited supply), resulted in extended lifespan in mouse models. Which is, if you think about it, not a lot less to eat!

Of course, this would be less than ideal for bodybuilding. A caloric deficit is frowned upon!

Also, I saw your other post on oxidative stress from foods. I found that quite informative, maybe you could crosspost the link to that thread on this page! I'm surprised you didn't bring that up in discussion


@T+1: Indeed this is fact that larger animals have shorter lifespan is a truncation of information that could very well lead to misinformation. However, if you look within species (i.e. dogs, humans), this does apply!

There is also a theory about extrinsic hazard. If animals are protected, like that of tortoises (armour from the hard shell), they are long lived. This was also shown to be true in snakes, where the same species had poisonous and non-poisonous breeds. The poisonous snakes appear to be longer lived.

Your point is a solid one. Such statistical data should be taken with a pinch of salt.


@JustForFun: That distinguishes a science student from the rest of the population. Research highly interests me. In fact, I hope to lead an important research in the foreseeable future but the story of my life's ambitions is a whole 'nuther discussion.

I did mention that there may be a lifestyle benefit from weightlifting (healthier food, less cigs, less alco). However, it cannot be ignored that bodybuilding/weightlifting is an 'extreme' form of exercise in that some of us intend to reach a size (Ronnie Coleman) that could potentially affect longevity. Exercise is good, but the extremity of professional bodybuilding and it's paradigms could potentially shorten your lifespan, given the current data from biogerontology.

But then again, it's not like I'm gonna stop squatting

This post has been edited by pizzaboy: Apr 21 2009, 08:44 AM

mofonyx : Reason why I didn't post the link here is because I wasn't too sure on the reception.

There is this nasty habit in this forum to just quote names of famous BBers, expecting the reader to believe the poster's creditability by acquaintance alone and not through explaination or reasoning or statements made by famous BBers. And, if the reader doesn't know them, the poster will turn around and verbally abuse the reader for his "ignorance". Using people's names in vain and in such manner is shallow.

Link : http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=987971

From all the reading that I've done to date, some conclusions :

-There are a lot of similarities across nearly all diets i.e. limit carbo, fat, sugar intake, ensure proper cooking method, eat more veggies and controlled portions of fruits, watch portions, etc. If I check out a diabetic diet, I see similarities with the fat-burning diets for some of the BB diets. Portions may be different for the proteins but other than that, still much so the same basic concept and principles.

-One thing interesting about the Japanese diet is the focus on tofu, fish, green tea and lastly, seaweed. The seaweed may just be the last food ingredient left to really study. Green tea and tofu gain acceptance in worldwide culinary but not so seaweed. Coming from the sea, it would have an abundance of nutrients that wouldn't be found in land-grown vegetables due to the the richness of the sea compared to the depletion of the landsoil for farming.

-All body functions and processes are the same for all human beings. It's just a question on whether we have created a certain body environment for the process to take place or not. That's why certain processes will only occur in BBers/WLers (weight lifterss) / athletes and not for the ordinary Joe. But that doesn't mean that they should ignore the health risks faced by the ordinary Joe either.

-It's important to know the condition of your health before you start off and make adjustments accordingly, whether you're just an ordinary person starting off on exercise regime / BBers / WLers/ athletes. A good example is Flex Wheeler where people thought that it was the wrong usage of supplements that brought out his kidney problems when actually it's a genetic problem from birth. Was reading one of the interviews that he gave and he admitted that it was tough having to put up a brave face about it during competitions. He still BB with his new kidney but he now watches his diet and exercise regime.

-Careful when reading research articles. There's not as many research done on getting new results as much as research of comparing literature. It's either experiemental research or literature comparison research.

Aging well is an interesting topic and weightlifting has a role in it. Majority of my information is coming from http://www.precisionnutrition.com because the articles are easier to read since it has less emotional garbage in there. Do you remember the previous articles you linked about Anaerobic Cardio Workout? The stuff in there tallies with what I'm reading about Weight Loss but had to do a lot of "reading between the lines" (the delivery method was terrible and I doubt that most people can really understand the terminologies used).

Oh, one thing I decided to do was order a set of Precision Nutrition and just try to get a better basic understanding about food + exercise + weight lifting. Hopefully can get it by the end of this week or beginning next week.

This post has been edited by myremi: Apr 21 2009, 09:30 AM

Umami - Ikeda K (November 2002). "New seasonings". Chem. Senses 27 (9): 847–9. PMID 12438213. http://chemse.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/pmidl...g&pmid=12438213. (partial translation of Ikeda, Kikunae (1909). "New Seasonings[japan.]". Journal of the Chemical Society of Tokyo 30: 820–836. )

Enjoy...

Free radical damage normally occurs in High Rep exercises ... especially in cardio ... speed increases the free radicals

it cannot, not adequate to be noticable in weight lifting, due to the Low Rep ...


however free radicals is a double-edge sword ....... if your body have a lot of free radicals due to exercising, your body IMPROVES more drastically .. compared to taking vit.c or vit.e to cut down free radicals ..

long story short, more, pain, more improvement ... but also more dmg

Cheeky monkey here...

The text is on taste lah, not about health benefits lah.

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Added on April 21, 2009, 2:13 pmTo counteract the damage, eat more vegetables and take more antioxidants other than vitamins A, C, E.

The real definition for antioxidants is not just 3 vitamins are we have been drummed continuously by marketing gimmicks. It's actually more i.e. substance that inhibits oxidation or inhibits reactions promoted by oxygen or peroxides. This will include trace minerals, CoQ10, Grapeseed (which surprisingly is 50x more effective as an antioxidant provided it's taken in combination with other antioxidants), glucosamine, fish oil, etc.

The human body is an amazing and ingenious invention. It has the build-in capacity to deal with a lot of major health problems, provided that it has the necessary materials to do so. And, the only way that it can get these materials is by eating. So, eat your greens.

This post has been edited by myremi: Apr 21 2009, 02:13 PM

Glutamic acid was indicative for the taste as found by the study from seaweed extract. Its isolated chloride-salt compound is Monosodium Glutamate, MSG. Now, where that load of health benefits from MSG you have grown accustom to?

Merry go round…stupid lah.

It's currently a merry-go-round because the Westerners haven't yet figured out how is it that Japanese ppl can take so much salt and MSG in their diet and still live so long? This includes having majority of their male population having high blood pressure, heavy smokers and drinkers and yet statistically, compared to countries worldwide, they still have less heart problems.

So even though seaweed does contain MSG, how is it that their people doesn't seem to have the violent reaction that others do? Probably the combination of diet and exercise (they walk a lot, even in the city).

Sabarlah kawan. U need to be more positive lah, instead of bitter.

Do you have the study to support your purported claim above?


Again, please forward a study to support your argument above, i.e. intakes of MSG contributed a violent reaction, etc.


...waiting.

Sarcasm doesn't become u. And there I was, thinking that was hope.

The first claim is by sheer observation, considering that it's the Western researchers who did a 180 degree turn when it came to the health benefits of weight training.

2nd claim on MSG contributing violent reaction : should have been written as extreme. By observation of ppl around you who are sensitive to MSG is good enough claims. I've had friends and relatives who either have fainted or agitated from the effect of MSG. Don't u? If you haven't, count yourself lucky.

However, why the seaweed doesn't give that same reaction? It could be that the MSG is not in it's purified + crystallize form as the MSG used for cooking. Or it could be that there's other stuff in the seaweed that negates the bad effects of MSG when eating seaweed. Hypothetical.

And you will keep waiting.

Body building results in greater BMR. Greater BMR means more O2 consumption/day. More O2 consumption results in greater energy expenditure, which in turn would increase the likelihood of free radical production.

However, exercise was shown to delay ageing. What's important here is to draw the line between detrimental stress and positive stress on the body. It would be ideal to work around the positive stress region. As emphasized before, this is entirely against the idea of bodybuilding. It's a slippery slope indeed.

@ahnien: Yes, I mind. What does that have to do with anything?

@myremi: Don't take CoFactor3's posts too seriously. He likes to flamebait. Check previous posts.

mofonyx : Learning that now. But, having to grow up with a very grumpy uncle, it's easy to deal with people like them. Just give them back the same treatment and they usually back off.

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Added on April 22, 2009, 4:49 amHmm...and since we were talking about Japanese diets, have just found something new : Bento Box Food Art.

Something to do now.

This post has been edited by myremi: Apr 22 2009, 04:49 AM

Now that's hypocrite. Noted: Myremi likes to make baseless and unfounded claim.

What's more pathetic? Nobody seem to able to bring up a valid study to support the claims either.

LOL! If that's your best shot, you must seriously be running out of ideas now.

Another self indulged hypothetical claim.

Sick.

Yup my father is like a live MSG detector too. Everytime I go to eat something new with him he can detect whether the food has MSG or not, he's very sensitive to it. No fainting or anything of that sort but, still has negative effects.

Sensitivity to MSG could easily be masked by other substances present in particular - disodium 59-inosinate (IMP) and disodium 59-guanylate (GMP) - which are also common among food enhancers.

You can't hold MSG solely responsible for his sensitive taste receptors.




... awaiting a study on MSG contributed to violent reaction as claimed by Myremi.



This post has been edited by CoFactor-3: Apr 22 2009, 08:52 AM

cofactor-3 : Then you just have to wither and wait then. Because you're obviously unwilling to even share much until the other party has posted. So wait.

One thing about food enhancers is that most of them aren't in the foods unless it's processed food. Not all food enhancers are available in the market, not to mention that it may not seem practical to go and identify it down to the individual component and then erase it out from the menu.

And remember what I said about nasty habits and pointing fingers.

mofonyx : Give me a bit of time to read up on the Okinawa Diet page. I also just recently found the Japanese Food Pyramid which is surprisingly a spinning top.

http://item.rakuten.co.jp/yellowstudio/c/0000000352/
http://www.maff.go.jp/english_p/shokuiku.pdf

I'm also feeling more than a bit inspired after looking at Bento Food Art. Never knew that the Japanese also had planning rules for making the size of the container fit to the calorie (well, approximation anyways).

http://lunchinabox.net/2007/03/07/guide-to...size-bento-box/

myremi: Indeed, very cool stuff. The Japanese are smart people indeed. I wish I could contribute more but exams nearing. I will await patiently for your review.

Shit posting won't count as to upheld your claims without the support of a valid study. Will wait while you do your shooting frenzy elsewhere.

BTW: I got a cool PM from Pizzaboy (salute). Here's what it said:
---------------------------------------------
Hello. Good day.

Your posts in the weightlifting makes you age quicker, is clearly flame baiting. In 1 hour, you've had two posts reported for flame baiting. Please stop flame baiting or we'll have to give your account a holiday.

Enjoy the forum, but please don't misuse it.

Thank you for cooperating.
---------------------------------------------

It seem the accuse of flame baiting was used to extradite in aiding Myremi failure to produce any valid study as requested by me. Cheeky monkey, you two. There are ways to measure a hypocrite then there is Myremi. Real pity.

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Added on April 22, 2009, 11:46 amThat's lame. In the span of two days starting this thread your exams are nearing already?



This post has been edited by CoFactor-3: Apr 22 2009, 11:46 AM