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Discussion Loyalty, Is it ok to change clubs?

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giotto
post Apr 13 2009, 11:51 AM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Apr 13 2009, 10:31 AM)
We've probably taken this discussion as far as we can from the perspective of a fan. Someone commented that players move, so why can't fans? Well here is my take on it from the perspective of a player then.

Unlike fans, football is not just a passion to them, it's a livelihood. From a monetary perspective, they have their futures to consider and therefore sacrifices have to be made. I'm sure most of us would sacrifice things we love for something important like our families? There is an increasing number of football mercenaries I admit which is why it's refreshing when you have players who end their careers in the club they started at. I'd hate to think that just because you move clubs, you cannot still show some loyalty i.e. not moving to a rival club.

Aside from the monetary aspect, players also have to consider the emotional side of it. Can you see someone like Jamie Carragher signing for Everton? Fernando Torres for Real Madrid? Gary Neville for Manchester City? John Terry to Spurs? Well I suppose the answer will never be definitive when you have the likes of Sol Campbell willing to incur the wrath of Spurs fans, or Luis Figo realising he had a craving for goat's head was it? Even if they move to neutral sides, it doesn't mean they fall out of love with the hometown clubs. Players still watch matches involving 'their teams' whenever possible, and have been quoted as saying it's still the first result the look out for when flipping through the sports section. To take things a step further, you get the likes of Robbie Fowler giving Man Utd fans the 5 finger salute although he was playing for Man City.

Bottom line, I feel it's unfair to draw a direct comparison between being a loyal fan, and a loyal player.
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Henry is and will always be an Arsenal fan simply because he was brought up here and spent some really good years playing at Highbury. He has a special connection with the fans and that will never change even if one day Barcelona comes to Emirates and Henry scores. He's a fan of Arsenal, thats for sure but he has a job to do at Barcelona.

I'm sure the same goes to Phil Neville who was brought up at Man Utd and the likes of Robbie Fowler who's born and bred at Liverpool. They all have a job to do at their new clubs but that wont stop them from supporting their childhood clubs

And yes, please dont compare players who switch clubs and to a fan who switches clubs.
TSDuke Red
post Apr 13 2009, 12:04 PM

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QUOTE(giotto @ Apr 13 2009, 11:51 AM)
Henry is and will always be an Arsenal fan simply because he was brought up here and spent some really good years playing at Highbury. He has a special connection with the fans and that will never change even if one day Barcelona comes to Emirates and Henry scores. He's a fan of Arsenal, thats for sure but he has a job to do at Barcelona.

I'm sure the same goes to Phil Neville who was brought up at Man Utd and the likes of Robbie Fowler who's born and bred at Liverpool.  They all have a job to do at their new clubs but that wont stop them from supporting their childhood clubs

And yes, please dont compare players who switch clubs and to a fan who switches clubs.
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Well it's also been made known that Henry isn't exactly opposed to a move to Liverpool smile.gif
aboogee
post Apr 13 2009, 12:22 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Apr 13 2009, 12:04 PM)
Well it's also been made known that Henry isn't exactly opposed to a move to Liverpool smile.gif
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I think he never really put the idea of joining United out the window either.

Having said tat, he always seems to have a glitter in his eyes whenever he talks about Arsenal. In his last couple of seasons at the Gunners, he probably didnt have a whole load to shout about, but if you ask me, im pretty sure if its Arsenal vs Anyone, he'd pick Arsenal every day of the week and twice on sundays smile.gif

On another note, I wonder how it feels to switch clubs. Maybe its like switching girlfriends?
I just cant imagine giving up my United...i really cant! Gawrsh!!! Maybe ive supported them for too long hahaha.
air_mood
post Apr 13 2009, 12:59 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Apr 13 2009, 10:31 AM)
We've probably taken this discussion as far as we can from the perspective of a fan. Someone commented that players move, so why can't fans? Well here is my take on it from the perspective of a player then.

Unlike fans, football is not just a passion to them, it's a livelihood. From a monetary perspective, they have their futures to consider and therefore sacrifices have to be made. I'm sure most of us would sacrifice things we love for something important like our families? There is an increasing number of football mercenaries I admit which is why it's refreshing when you have players who end their careers in the club they started at. I'd hate to think that just because you move clubs, you cannot still show some loyalty i.e. not moving to a rival club.

Aside from the monetary aspect, players also have to consider the emotional side of it. Can you see someone like Jamie Carragher signing for Everton? Fernando Torres for Real Madrid? Gary Neville for Manchester City? John Terry to Spurs? Well I suppose the answer will never be definitive when you have the likes of Sol Campbell willing to incur the wrath of Spurs fans, or Luis Figo realising he had a craving for goat's head was it? Even if they move to neutral sides, it doesn't mean they fall out of love with the hometown clubs. Players still watch matches involving 'their teams' whenever possible, and have been quoted as saying it's still the first result the look out for when flipping through the sports section. To take things a step further, you get the likes of Robbie Fowler giving Man Utd fans the 5 finger salute although he was playing for Man City.

Bottom line, I feel it's unfair to draw a direct comparison between being a loyal fan, and a loyal player.
*
It was a pig's head.
giotto
post Apr 13 2009, 01:53 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Apr 13 2009, 12:04 PM)
Well it's also been made known that Henry isn't exactly opposed to a move to Liverpool smile.gif
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Really?

As far as i know, he says there's no other club he would like to play for in the EPL. I would be really sad the day Henry signs for any other EPL club, except Arsenal. I know thats abit selfish of me but he's a special player in every Arsenal's fan heart.
Everdying
post Apr 13 2009, 02:04 PM

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even henry is quoted and highlighted in the lfc website.

"Liverpool's fans are just amazing. The best feeling I have at away games is Anfield. It is just incredible. I love it. You get goose bumps when you see their supporters sing You'll Never Walk Alone." Arsenal and France star Thierry Henry.

TSDuke Red
post Apr 13 2009, 03:31 PM

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QUOTE(giotto @ Apr 13 2009, 01:53 PM)
Really?

As far as i know, he says there's no other club he would like to play for in the EPL. I would be really sad the day Henry signs for any other EPL club, except Arsenal. I know thats abit selfish of me but he's a special player in every Arsenal's fan heart.
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He has also said this :

QUOTE
It must be amazing to be a Liverpool player says Thierry Henry
Jun 21 2008 by David Prentice, Liverpool Echo

THIERRY HENRY has once again revealed his admiration for Liverpool supporters after hailing Anfield as his favourite away ground in the world.

The France striker, who was speaking at the launch of Reebok's 'Your move' campaign in Barcelona recently, believes England boasts a number of atmospheric stadiums but insists he has never experienced anywhere with the same passion as on the red half of Merseyside.

"For my first few years at Arsenal we didn't do well there, but we improved," he said.

"It's the atmosphere I love. It's unbelievable. I've played in a lot of stadiums but for me there is nothing like playing at Liverpool.

"Nothing can beat Highbury, of course, but playing at Anfield was great. The fans always sing and hold up their scarves before and after the game - whether they have won or lost.

"It must be amazing if you are a Liverpool player."


Having said that he also did say that he loves Arsenal but since he left, rumours of him returning to English football have been circulating ever since he left for Barca, suggesting that he'd join Liverpool given the opportunity. Well these are just rumours of course but the statement above is pretty much fact.
giotto
post Apr 13 2009, 06:04 PM

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Sounds like a "Come get me" plea from Henry.

But really, i won't disagree with Henry about the environment in Anfield. I dont need to go to Anfield to experience it coz i've been to one of your live screening at Breakers when Man Utd was beaten, that is enough to convince me.

That article is close to a year old and that was the period he was struggling at Barca so maybe now he's changed his mind. He's scoring regularly now, been linking up realy well with his Barca mates, so it will be rather surprising if he still wants to leave Barca now. The thing about Henry is that he's so used to the team revolving around him. You could almost say that he's a one man team. He needs to be the centre of everything, the fulcrum of the team and he was struggling a lil bit in the early Barca days simply because Barca already had some superstars in Etoo, Messi, Ronaldinho, Xavi and to a certain extent Iniesta who's an excellent playmaker as well. At Arsenal, he was untouchable and that to a certain extent hindered our progress. We were almost playing at the very max and seems like couldn't make anymore progress. But when he left, Cesc took over the leadership and we played more simple and more effective football.
Jonno
post Apr 17 2009, 08:07 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Apr 13 2009, 03:31 PM)
He has also said this :
Having said that he also did say that he loves Arsenal but since he left, rumours of him returning to English football have been circulating ever since he left for Barca, suggesting that he'd join Liverpool given the opportunity. Well these are just rumours of course but the statement above is pretty much fact.
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QUOTE(giotto @ Apr 13 2009, 06:04 PM)
Sounds like a "Come get me" plea from Henry.

But really, i won't disagree with Henry about the environment in Anfield. I dont need to go to Anfield to experience it coz i've been to one of your live screening at Breakers when Man Utd was beaten, that is enough to convince me.

That article is close to a year old and that was the period he was struggling at Barca so maybe now he's changed his mind.  He's scoring regularly now, been linking up realy well with his Barca mates, so it will be rather surprising if he still wants to leave Barca now.  The thing about Henry is that he's so used to the team revolving around him. You could almost say that he's a one man team. He needs to be the centre of everything, the fulcrum of the team and he was struggling a lil bit in the early Barca days simply because Barca already had some superstars in Etoo, Messi, Ronaldinho, Xavi and to a certain extent Iniesta who's an excellent playmaker as well. At Arsenal, he was untouchable and that to a certain extent hindered our progress. We were almost playing at the very max and seems like couldn't make anymore progress. But when he left, Cesc took over the leadership and we played more simple and more effective football.
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IT has been well documented that if Henry is to join another Premier League team, it would be Liverpool, he said that. In fact, before his move to Barcelona, he actually toyed with the idea of joining Liverpool, but because of his allegiance to Arsenal, he can't see himself playing for another premier league team. Of course, these things do change, we can only wait and see what happens.

On the note of switching clubs, I think it's a no brainer, those who switch clubs mainly do so because they want to be the with "in" crowd, to avoid being teased on, and mainly also they don't know how to answer back. Honestly, I can't see meself supporting another team, even if we got relegated to the conference league or the Blue Diamond League, it's about supporting the club, not supporting who's on top. I have friends who supported Blackburn and then Newcastle, because Alan Shearer moved back to Newcastle. To me, it's one thing liking the player, it's another switching allegiance because of the player. For us, we don't switch to Leeds because Fowler went to Leeds and then Man City, or suddenly became an Atletico Madrid fan because Garcia went there, we would want these ex players to do well, but would never switch clubs.

It's the same with managers, players and all other things. It all boils down to one cliche "the club is always bigger than the player" and "the player come and go, the club stays" or if you've watch the movie "Goal", there's this quote that I like, "The name in front of the shirt (the crest) is more important (or bigger) than the one behind".

All in all, I would not be ashamed to say that I like West Ham, but would not say that I support West Ham, and no, West Ham is not my second team, I like them because of the football they play (from the Redknapp days), their famed academy and the fact that they had 8 England players who was in the England World Cup winning team. And many many more. Switching club? I am more likely to switch gender before contemplating it.
skystrike
post Apr 17 2009, 09:29 PM

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to change from any team to their fiercest rival team is never to me...
TangChristo
post May 10 2009, 12:31 PM

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if i support epl, spanish, and italian league also consider not loyalty?

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