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 medical / critical illness insurance enquiry

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Aurora Boreali
post Mar 17 2010, 02:11 PM

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Guys, my friend got this in an email? Anyone knows what's this?

QUOTE
Dear Valued TM Customer,

We would like to extend our appreciation to you for being a loyal and valued TM customer. As we are constantly discovering new and innovative ways to reward you, we are pleased to offer this complimentary TM ActiveProtection Plan* which is valid for 6 months upon your acceptance.

This innovative protection plan provides you and your spouse with a RM30,000 coverage each in the event of Permanent Total Disablement due to accident. The total sum insured is up to RM60,000 and this complimentary insurance coverage is underwritten by Chartis Malaysia Insurance Berhad (795492 - W) (formerly known as AIG General Insurance (Malaysia) Berhad).

Our TM representatives will be calling you shortly to confirm your acceptance of this offer and to answer any queries you may have on this free insurance policy.

Your acceptance of this free insurance policy indicates your agreement to share your related information with Chartis Malaysia Insurance Berhad for the purpose of policy issuance.

Thank you for your continuous support and we hope to serve you even better in future.
mfitri77
post Mar 17 2010, 02:15 PM

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QUOTE(Aurora Boreali @ Mar 17 2010, 02:11 PM)
Guys, my friend got this in an email? Anyone knows what's this?
*
Looks like a simple P.A. plan, join marketing effort by both. I always get this, but from Maybank, (naturally underwritten by Etiqa).
cherroy
post Mar 17 2010, 02:16 PM

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We have duplicate same topic, so please continue at here. http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/940897/+720
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ajau
post Mar 17 2010, 03:08 PM

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QUOTE(rockets @ Mar 16 2010, 04:50 PM)
i just called my agent and found out that my current medicare policy is junk, it is not guarantee renewable. i think i'm gonna drop it and get a new policy. wish i did some research back then as i was only 22 when i bought mine and didn't care too much about the details.

anyway, i've decided i want the Tokio Marine Medic Plus addon, what would be a good primary medical insurance with guarantee renewal to go with that?

i've seen PJusa recommend AXA but i just read their policy and it has this:

Alterations

"The Company reserves the right to amend the terms and provisions
of this Policy by giving a thirty (30) day prior notice in writing by
ordinary post to the Owner’s last known address in the Company’s
records, and such amendment will be applicable from the next
renewal of this Policy. No alteration to this Policy shall be valid
unless Authorized by the Company and such approval is endorsed
thereon. The Insurer should give thirty (30) days prior written notice
to the Policyholder according to the last recorded address for any
alterations made."

which i'm not entirely sure what it means, but it seems like they can change your policy anytime they want.
also for AXA, could anyone explain what "limit per disability" is?

Also, one question about insurance with deductibles, can you use another insurance to cover a deductible? lets say you have 2 insurance, insurance A and insurance B, and insurance B has a $5000 deductible before they'll start cover. Can you use insurance A for the $5000 and then switch to insurance B to cover the rest of the bill?

thanks.
*
This is what I found from Tokio Marine Medic Plus Pro website:
"Medic Plus is designed to complement and provide protection as a secondary level of cover to the Hospitalisation & Surgical Insurance that you may have purchased or where you are covered by a policy arranged by your employer"

What I understand, this product is an top-up, meaning if your current medical insurance benefit (usually arranged by your employer) is exhausted, you can use TM to cover the remaining hospital bill. And of course the premium is very cheap because it has quite high deductible (RM 10,000). Maybe PJusa can correct this, seems he is very expert in medical insurance.

My opinion is, even tough you may already have medical coverage by your employer, it is always best you have your own complete coverage medical insurance policy. Because the medical coverage by your employer only cover while you are working with them. What happened after you left. The worst is you suffered an illness while you still in job. What will happened after you left and retired? Definitely you existing illness will not be covered by new insurance company. Especially if you suffered a cancer, heart condition which need continuous treatment.

My 2 sen.


Added on March 17, 2010, 3:19 pm
QUOTE(Aurora Boreali @ Mar 17 2010, 02:11 PM)
Guys, my friend got this in an email? Anyone knows what's this?
*
It's a Personal Accident Plan. Cover only when you involved in an accident. Usually very cheap compare to other life insurance, endownment plan. This plan carry no cash value.

This post has been edited by ajau: Mar 17 2010, 03:19 PM
waiyeap
post Mar 17 2010, 03:44 PM

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Company medical coverage is company coverage. You work for the company, the company insurance coverage will protect you. And the company's coverage are private limited. Just offer some basic coverage.
Each person shud have their own medical coverage. As it will follow you your whole life. If you are retrench or retired, company coverage will say good bye to you but luckily you still got your own medical coverage. So anything happen, you still have your own coverage.
If you think company's coverage is enough, den you shud think twice. If you have critical illness like cancer, first time treatment, company insurance will covered it. But you still nt yt fully healed that lead to you unable to contribute to the company den will lead to you losing the job. This time big problem comes up. Follow-up treatment, consultation fees, medicine all need a bulk of money. But you don't have job (means company insurance also gone). This time around, you will think back and regret on y you didn't get another backup plan.
So my opinion is, no matter how much your company's insurance cover you, it won't follow you forever. Get a backup plan, no matter how much the coverage at least it will follow you till the end of your life journey smile.gif
ajau
post Mar 17 2010, 04:00 PM

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QUOTE(waiyeap @ Mar 17 2010, 03:44 PM)
Company medical coverage is company coverage. You work for the company, the company insurance coverage will protect you. And the company's coverage are private limited. Just offer some basic coverage.
Each person shud have their own medical coverage. As it will follow you your whole life. If you are retrench or retired, company coverage will say good bye to you but luckily you still got your own medical coverage. So anything happen, you still have your own coverage.
If you think company's coverage is enough, den you shud think twice. If you have critical illness like cancer, first time treatment, company insurance will covered it. But you still nt yt fully healed that lead to you unable to contribute to the company den will lead to you losing the job. This time big problem comes up. Follow-up treatment, consultation fees, medicine all need a bulk of money. But you don't have job (means company insurance also gone). This time around, you will think back and regret on y you didn't get another backup plan.
So my opinion is, no matter how much your company's insurance cover you, it won't follow you forever. Get a backup plan, no matter how much the coverage at least it will follow you till the end of your life journey smile.gif
*
cannot agree more.

i am very pitty when I read newspaper, seeing people ask for donation for hundred thousand for your heart/cancer treatment. I am not sure if I can give lots to them. I am not sure others will.
rockets
post Mar 17 2010, 04:12 PM

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QUOTE(ajau @ Mar 17 2010, 03:08 PM)
This is what I found from Tokio Marine Medic Plus Pro website:
"Medic Plus is designed to complement and provide protection as a secondary level of cover to the Hospitalisation & Surgical Insurance that you may have purchased or where you are covered by a policy arranged by your employer"

What I understand, this product is an top-up, meaning if your current medical insurance benefit (usually arranged by your employer) is exhausted, you can use TM to cover the remaining hospital bill. And of course the premium is very cheap because it has quite high deductible (RM 10,000). Maybe PJusa can correct this, seems he is very expert in medical insurance.

*
yea Tokio Marine Medic Plus is a top-up, which is why i'm also looking for a primary health insurance. TM as an add-on, i'm not really sure what's the criteria to start claiming this insurance besides the RM10,000 deductible. Do we also have to have exhausted our primary insurance(annual/life or whatever limit) before TM will kick-in?


Lets say,

Case 1.
Operation costs: RM50,000.

Primary insurance: RM100,000 annual, no-life limit.
Add-on: TM Medic Plus.

So in this case TM cannot be claimed at all am i right?



Case 2.
Operation costs: RM50,000.

Primary insurance: Annual limit RM0 (exhausted).
Add-on: TM Medic Plus.

For this case, TM can be claimed but we have to pay RM10,000 first for the deductible before they'll pay the rest?

This post has been edited by rockets: Mar 17 2010, 04:18 PM
mfitri77
post Mar 17 2010, 04:20 PM

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I had a look at the Tokio marine policy, and it seems that it is being positioned as something to use after you have exhausted your first policy benefits.

No wonder its cheap. Beside the deductible (per disability some more), for someone to exhaust that much must mean very bad problem.


Added on March 17, 2010, 4:22 pm
QUOTE(rockets @ Mar 17 2010, 04:12 PM)

Case 1.
Operation costs: RM50,000
Primary insurance: RM100,000 annual, no-life limit.
Add-on: TM Medic Plus.

So in this case TM cannot be claimed at all am i right?
Case 2.
Operation costs: RM50,000.

Primary insurance: Annual limit RM0 (exhausted).
Add-on: TM Medic Plus.

For this case, TM can be claimed but we have to pay RM10,000 first for the deductible before they'll pay the rest?
*
Can, but you pay 10k first lor. Useless then if your medical bills all below 10k per visit.

This post has been edited by mfitri77: Mar 17 2010, 04:22 PM
ajau
post Mar 17 2010, 04:36 PM

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QUOTE(rockets @ Mar 17 2010, 04:12 PM)
yea Tokio Marine Medic Plus is a top-up, which is why i'm also looking for a primary health insurance. TM as an add-on, i'm not really sure what's the criteria to start claiming this insurance besides the RM10,000 deductible. Do we also have to have exhausted our primary insurance(annual/life or whatever limit) before TM will kick-in?
Lets say,

Case 1.
Operation costs: RM50,000.

Primary insurance: RM100,000 annual, no-life limit.
Add-on: TM Medic Plus.

So in this case TM cannot be claimed at all am i right?
Case 2.
Operation costs: RM50,000.

Primary insurance: Annual limit RM0 (exhausted).
Add-on: TM Medic Plus.

For this case, TM can be claimed but we have to pay RM10,000 first for the deductible before they'll pay the rest?
*
Deductible, excess and co-insurance, I believe all this term may work the same. Meaning both insurance company and insured person need to bear the bill together.

I don't have experience with deductible in medical card, but I did have with excess in car insurance. I need to pay RM440 first, the rest was paid by insurance company.

I believe you are right in both cases. But let's say this scenario:
Operation cost: RM80k
Primary Insurance: Annual RM50k
Add on: TM Medic Plus

You will use RM50k from your primary insurance, the remaining 30k, I am not sure if TM Medic will pay full or you still need to pay RM10k first, and RM20 will pay by TM.

And there is also a clause in TM Medic Plus:
Renewal guaranteed after 12 months of ’claims–free’ period.

I am not so sure definition of 'claims-free' period and how long it is. I hope you better get clarification on this.
waiyeap
post Mar 17 2010, 04:47 PM

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QUOTE(ajau @ Mar 17 2010, 04:36 PM)
I believe you are right in both cases. But let's say this scenario:
Operation cost: RM80k
Primary Insurance: Annual RM50k
Add on: TM Medic Plus

You will use RM50k from your primary insurance, the remaining 30k, I am not sure if TM Medic will pay full or you still need to pay RM10k first, and RM20 will pay by TM.


*
From my understanding, if your operation cost 80K, and your primary medical card annual is 50K, if the MC gt offer co-insurance like 10%, means da exceed 30K , the insured only need to pay 10% from the exceed value RM 30K , which mean the insurance comp will bear the extra 27K while you only use 3K for a 80K operation.
so

Operation cost: RM80k
Primary Insurance: Annual RM50k
Co-insurance : 10%

Total amount need to pay : RM 3K

This is how AIA medic card works. Correct me if I'm wrong.
ajau
post Mar 17 2010, 05:31 PM

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QUOTE(waiyeap @ Mar 17 2010, 04:47 PM)
From my understanding, if your operation cost 80K, and your primary medical card annual is 50K, if the MC gt offer co-insurance like 10%, means da exceed 30K , the insured only need to pay 10% from the exceed value RM 30K , which mean the insurance comp will bear the extra 27K while you only use 3K for a 80K operation.
so

Operation cost: RM80k
Primary Insurance: Annual RM50k
Co-insurance : 10%

Total amount need to pay : RM 3K

This is how AIA medic card works. Correct me if I'm wrong.
*
I think there is mis-understanding. Actually rockets asking about TM Medic Plus deductible term but I give further scenario what happened the total bill exceeding the annual limit and will TM pay the remaining balance, because it has deductible of RM10k.

But, I am wondering in AIA, if you exceed your annual limit of RM50k, AIA still pay the remaining RM30k and the insured only pay 10% co-insurance (RM3k)

In Prudential and PruBSN Takaful, you don't have to worry about you exceeding your annual limit. You can opt Annual Limit waiver. Meaning Prudential / PruBSN will pay the total bill (subject to co-insurance), as long as the bill within life time limit. You can choose life time limit between RM500k - RM1.5million.

Easy to say, you don't have to worry about having 2nd medical card, in case the annual limit is not enough. And it will be easy to maintain too because you only need to maintain one card. And you can attached with CI, so if you suffer 36 critical illness, you do not need to pay for premium but you still have the medical coverage (and other benefit too if any). And the medical card is guaranteed renewal.

waiyeap
post Mar 17 2010, 07:02 PM

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QUOTE(ajau @ Mar 17 2010, 05:31 PM)
I think there is mis-understanding. Actually rockets asking about TM Medic Plus deductible term but I give further scenario what happened the total bill exceeding the annual limit and will TM pay the remaining balance, because it has deductible of RM10k.

But, I am wondering in AIA, if you exceed your annual limit of RM50k, AIA still pay the remaining RM30k and the insured only pay 10% co-insurance (RM3k)

In Prudential and PruBSN Takaful, you don't have to worry about you exceeding your annual limit. You can opt Annual Limit waiver. Meaning Prudential / PruBSN will pay the total bill (subject to co-insurance), as long as the bill within life time limit. You can choose life time limit between RM500k - RM1.5million.

Easy to say, you don't have to worry about having 2nd medical card, in case the annual limit is not enough. And it will be easy to maintain too because you only need to maintain one card. And you can attached with CI, so if you suffer 36 critical illness, you do not need to pay for premium but you still have the medical coverage (and other benefit too if any). And the medical card is guaranteed renewal.
*
Each company have their own uniques, for Pru gt annual limit waiver. For AIA, there a rider that enable you to enjoy umlimited lifetime limit. Only add around 5-10% to the MC premium, u enjoy high annual limit without limitation of lifetime limit.
PJusa
post Mar 17 2010, 09:02 PM

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ajau, waiyeap,

totally agree.

rockets,

i have to admit i am not 100% but i can check this out. i am using TM solely for the case that the primary cover is depleted. but it's my understanding that as long as the bill is not charged twice i can basically make the claim where i want. the only problem is that it's posing an inherent scenario of double insurance. TMs condition is basically pay 10k for any disability first, the balance can claim. so where you claim the first 10k is up to you. so it should also be possible to claim 10k from primary and the balance 40k from TM if cover permits.

the easiest way would be however to just claim with one company until you exhaust the limit then claim the balance from the second. i have not been in the situation that i needed to do this so this is as of now an assumption. (hopefully i never have to but well...) i will try to clarify this with TM - they are however hopelessly slow when you email them so i need to find the time to call them.
Molotov Cocktail
post Mar 17 2010, 09:18 PM

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insurance noob here, i want to ask if i already have critical illness and personal accident coverage, do i steel need to have medical cards coz i think that if i admitted most of it will be due to critical illness or accident so i can claim from the insurance company to pay, so do i still need medical card, the premium quite expensive, prefer not to have it
waiyeap
post Mar 17 2010, 09:40 PM

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QUOTE(Molotov Cocktail @ Mar 17 2010, 09:18 PM)
insurance noob here, i want to ask if i already have critical illness and personal accident coverage, do i steel need to have medical cards coz i think that if i admitted most of it will be due to critical illness or accident so i can claim from the insurance company to pay, so do i still need medical card, the premium quite expensive, prefer not to have it
*
Hi Molotov Cocktail,

Critical Illness coverage activated when you are diagnosed with any 36 critical illnesses. Meanwhile, PA offer medical reimbursement, TDP coverage and accidental death. Both of this will terminated, if any critical illness or accident happen and reimbursement are given.

Meanwhile, medical card offer you hospitalisation benefit,post-hospitalisation benefit, pre-hospitalization benefit, treatment benefit such as kidney dialysis or cancer treatment and many more.

So the scenerio is like this,
If MR A own a CI and PA only.
He diagnose with cancer(correction: critical stage). CI will reimburse him and therefore the coverage are terminated.
If MR A purchase a RM 100K CI, he will get 100K reimbursement.
hospitalisation, treatment, medicine cost wil be deducted from 100K. So when the 100K used up, where does MR.A get the money for follow-up treatment ?

But if MR A own a MC+ CI, he still get reimbursement of 100K. And the hospitalisation fees, treatment fees are covered by your medical card(subjected to how much MR.A's medical card coverage).Follow up treatment wont be a problem as MC can be used.

This post has been edited by waiyeap: Mar 18 2010, 09:05 AM
Molotov Cocktail
post Mar 17 2010, 10:04 PM

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thank for the explainantion waiyeap, got other question, if im diagnosed with certain critical illness, can i apply for medical card after being diagnosed, so if i dont want to have medical card i can choose to have high sum of CI coverage, bcoz i think the premium is cheaper to increase coverage for CI compared to medical card
numbertwo
post Mar 17 2010, 11:10 PM

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QUOTE(waiyeap @ Mar 17 2010, 09:40 PM)
Hi Molotov Cocktail,

Critical Illness coverage activated when you are diagnosed with any 36 critical illnesses. Meanwhile, PA offer medical reimbursement, TDP coverage and accidental death. Both of this will terminated, if any critical illness or accident happen and reimbursement are given.

Meanwhile, medical card offer you hospitalisation benefit,post-hospitalisation benefit, pre-hospitalization benefit, treatment benefit such as kidney dialysis or cancer treatment and many more.

So the scenerio is like this,
If MR A own a CI and PA only.
He diagnose with cancer. CI will reimburse him and therefore the coverage are terminated.
If MR A purchase a RM 100K CI, he will get 100K reimbursement.
hospitalisation, treatment, medicine cost wil be deducted from 100K. So when the 100K used up, where does MR.A get the money for follow-up treatment ?

But if MR A own a MC+ CI, he still get reimbursement of 100K. And the hospitalisation fees, treatment fees are covered by your medical card(subjected to how much MR.A's medical card coverage).Follow up treatment wont be a problem as MC can be used.
*
Hi,

a word of precaution.. again i think many consumers will get a wrong understanding that '''as long as someone is diagnosed with cancer, CI will reimburse ....".

Cancer, according to a policy contract (compare yours, it won't run too far from the extracts below);
-----
Cancer is defined as the uncontrollable growth and spread of malignant cells and the invasion and destruction of normal tissue for which major interventionist treatment or surgery (excluding endoscopic procedures alone) is considered necessary. The cancer must be confirmed by histological evidence of malignancy.

And the following conditions are EXCLUDED :
1. Carcinoma in situ including of the cervix;
2. Ductal Carcinoma in situ of the breast;
3. Papillary Carcinoma of the bladder & Stage 1 Prostate Cancer;
4. All skin cancers except malignant melanoma;
5. Stage 1 Hodgkin’s disease;
6. Tumors manifesting as complications of AIDS.
----

So , if one is diagnosed with stage 1 cancer, you won't get reimbursement , and if you are not having an medical insurance , you must have a deep pocket then...

So, kindly refrain from providing misleading info here.
mfitri77
post Mar 17 2010, 11:16 PM

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QUOTE(Molotov Cocktail @ Mar 17 2010, 10:04 PM)
thank for the explainantion waiyeap, got other question, if im diagnosed with certain critical illness, can i apply for medical card after being diagnosed, so if i dont want to have medical card i can choose to have high sum of CI coverage, bcoz i think the premium is cheaper to increase coverage for CI compared to medical card
*
Hi, just want to share.

If you are diagnosed with CI, chances are you won't get medical card, or you get with loading (extra payment) plus maybe exclusion on the illness.

Not having a medical card and just having CI cover is not a good idea, because CI for all the insurers only pays out when you are at a critical stage. For example, out of four stages, CI is only paid at stage 3 of cancer. That is why CI so cheap.

Whereas, you want to catch the cancer at stage one, and what you need at this point is medical cover to pay for your treatment.


ajau
post Mar 17 2010, 11:30 PM

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QUOTE(Molotov Cocktail @ Mar 17 2010, 10:04 PM)
thank for the explainantion waiyeap, got other question, if im diagnosed with certain critical illness, can i apply for medical card after being diagnosed, so if i dont want to have medical card i can choose to have high sum of CI coverage, bcoz i think the premium is cheaper to increase coverage for CI compared to medical card
*
You can apply, but it will subject to under-writer approval. But usually, it will not cover your pre-existing illness / condition.

I think it is not so expensive to have both. Depending on your age, gender, lifestyle (smoking, etc), in Prudential (PruLink) / PruBSN Takaful (Takafulink) you can have Death/TPD, CI, Medical Card, Hospital Allowance, PruPayor (to get premium waive if you suffer TPD/critical illness), and other benefit(s) starting from RM100 per month. And this plan also have cash value. But I do not want to stress about cash value because it may take at least 5 years and sometimes up to 10 years to withdraw some of the money (without interest).

The Medical Card lifetime coverage also is very high, between RM500k and RM1.5 million. From RM100 per month, you may get lifetime coverage RM500k (RM50k annual limit) with maybe RM10k - RM 50k CI/Death/TPD coverage and maybe some other benefit also. When you suffer a critical illness, your illness will be treated and at the same time, you will get a lump sum money for you to use to pay your debt such as your car/housing loan because at that time, you may not be able to work. So use your CI money to pay your debt and other guaranteed money (from Medical Card) to pay for your treatment. You may also have a cash value from your policy so that you can use for food/daily expenses.

I do not know how much you was quoted for CI and MC. But I am not sure if you can get RM500k CI for RM100 per month.

HHalphaomega
post Mar 18 2010, 08:20 AM

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QUOTE(Molotov Cocktail @ Mar 17 2010, 10:04 PM)
thank for the explainantion waiyeap, got other question, if im diagnosed with certain critical illness, can i apply for medical card after being diagnosed, so if i dont want to have medical card i can choose to have high sum of CI coverage, bcoz i think the premium is cheaper to increase coverage for CI compared to medical card
*
The chances of getting a medical card is very remote if you've been diagnosed with CI. Even if you do, there will be plenty of exclusions which would ultimately make it unattractive.

Basic idea for insurance is provide cover for individuals who are of standard life, healthy and can afford to pay standard premiums. If they move away from this convention they're actually doing unjust to the others in the pool.

As for me, medical insurance is there to foot my medical bills when I fall ill or need treatment for any of the CIs. The CI insurance kicks in more as a bonus fund to pay for any other costs as well as to compensate me on the loss of my regular ability. For an example, when you're diagnosed with heart attack etc, you can't really work like you used too hence this fund can be invested elsewhere to generate income for you.


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